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#1 Edited by RBT (27178 posts) - - Show Bio

Since the last one tanked because @subline thought it was a great idea to pit Oliver and Barry against each other in the first round, with his permission, of course, I'm starting a new one.

ROUND 1-1

Ralph Dibny

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vs

Ben Turner

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#3 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11442 posts) - - Show Bio

Ralph <3

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#4 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronze Tiger!!!

Also, bait.

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#5 Posted by kiba (3659 posts) - - Show Bio

Ralph

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#6 Posted by RBT (27178 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, I'm voting as well. Turner.

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#7 Posted by Psy-Scarlet (513 posts) - - Show Bio

Turner

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#8 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6519 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben

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#9 Posted by Hemehero (1269 posts) - - Show Bio

DIbny

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#10 Posted by TheSuperor (6352 posts) - - Show Bio

Dibny is cool, but Turner get's my vote.

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#12 Posted by Aqualion0 (1469 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben.

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#13 Edited by Kevd4wg (12515 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben, i never really liked ralph tbh

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#14 Posted by The_Red_Devil (4472 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben.

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#15 Posted by GateOfBabylon (3697 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben Turner

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#16 Posted by joshua755 (3808 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben Ralph is not likable to me he is actually annoying

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#17 Posted by RBT (27178 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#18 Posted by kiba (3659 posts) - - Show Bio

Wells I guess

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#19 Posted by Psy-Scarlet (513 posts) - - Show Bio

Harrison Sherloque Wells

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#21 Posted by RBT (27178 posts) - - Show Bio

Ralph

R1-1 is over. Current Round is Ricardo Diaz vs Sherloque Wells

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#22 Posted by jamesedward (8 posts) - - Show Bio

Wells I guess

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#23 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio

Sherloque Wells.

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#24 Posted by Kevd4wg (12515 posts) - - Show Bio

Havent seen s5 but sherloque because hes not Diaz

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#25 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11442 posts) - - Show Bio

Wells

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#26 Posted by Kairan1979 (26747 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by IndomitableRegal (15675 posts) - - Show Bio

The Dragon

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#28 Posted by Thorthunder98 (6613 posts) - - Show Bio

Wells, Diaz got annoying

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#29 Posted by mrmonster (14696 posts) - - Show Bio

Diaz. I personally find Sherloque to be just plain annoying.

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#30 Posted by JacenSolo77 (1243 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by RBT (27178 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm voting for Diaz

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#32 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

I'm voting for Diaz

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#33 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11442 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacensolo77: It's not Diaz hate, I just genuinely like Sherloque. He's overhated. You can even use Discord's search function to see me saying he's overhated.

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#34 Posted by JacenSolo77 (1243 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: Fair if you actually like him but the majority here are just saying he wins as spite, half of them don't genuinely like him.

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#35 Posted by The_Magister (13520 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't stand Diaz, so Wells

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#36 Edited by ANTHP2000 (25855 posts) - - Show Bio

Wells, Diaz is nothing but a street thug. MCU Frank tier feats and DCEU Parademon tier villain.

P.S. don't tag me for further rounds though.

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#37 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

Diaz losing to this Wells makes me want to die in a fire. Please if these are the kind of people voting in the tournament don't tag me for future rounds. May write something out about him later.

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#38 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline:Not surprised by the usual Diaz hate but can any one of you guys actually back up why he's bad rather than yah know, just saying it.

Smh RF, just leave me be.

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#39 Posted by RBT (27178 posts) - - Show Bio

Diaz losing to this Wells makes me want to die in a fire. Please if these are the kind of people voting in the tournament don't tag me for future rounds. May write something out about him later.

heh

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#40 Posted by Kevd4wg (12515 posts) - - Show Bio

@jacensolo77: I have a lot of reasons why I don't like Diaz

  1. As much as they tried to make him not, at his heart, he's just a thug. Like that's it. This is the 6th villain in a series that has included personal attacks on Oliver, World Wide secret organizations, and even world destruction, Diaz's plan was just control of a crime syndicate. It's not that toned down stakes is bad, but someone like Prometheus or Merlyn does it a lot better because they either posed a more personal threat to Oliver or there was a sense they could actually do what they wanted.
  2. Everything about Diaz was super forced. Like everything, they had an episode that took us out of the bad story to show us that Diaz is maybe not that bad a guy, but no he really is. Like Black Siren is super scared of him, and they never showed us why she should be. She could legit just kill him.
  3. Along with the second, Diaz never felt like a real threat. Following Caden James in the same season who had higher stakes(and more reasonable ngl), a better skillset, and a more interesting motivation/connection to Oliver, Diaz just felt pointless. To make this even worse when the FBI showed up his orginization got taken down. Not Argus who people like LoA have put to shame, literally the FBI. Diggle's shaky hand did more damage to the team then Diaz.
  4. Diaz did not have good on screen presence. He wasn't intimidating like Prometheus or Slade, he wasn't charismatic like Merlyn or even Dahrk to a degree, he was just kinda there, and it felt like Oliver should've whooped his ass a long time ago.
  5. His motivation was stupid. Like really stupid. You can say Slade's motivation wasn't great, but it directly related to Oliver and he was insane. What does Diaz's motivation of getting respect do for him? Other then make him look like a whiny brat who doesn't deserve respect. It doesn't confront any of Oliver's morals or his actions like Prometheus, Slade, Meryln, and even Caden James did, it was kinda just there to have a villain.
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#41 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Glad someone got the joke.

:)

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#42 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11442 posts) - - Show Bio

I happen to love "these people" who are merely voicing their opinions, even though the vocal minority find it... harrowing, I guess? It's just an opinion...

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#43 Posted by JacenSolo77 (1243 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevthefailure

I have a lot of reasons why I don't like Diaz

Should have started with "I didn't watch season 6 or 7 properly and have no idea what I'm talking about in regards to this specific character". Given the totally ridiculous and illogical reasons below I see no reason why you shouldn't like him.

As much as they tried to make him not, at his heart, he's just a thug.

See, the show never said otherwise, the thing is that Diaz is just a thug. He's a guy who wants everything he can't have, does everything with force ect. He's a man who is what he so desperately doesn't want to be, which makes his character compelling imo.

Like that's it. This is the 6th villain in a series that has included personal attacks on Oliver, World Wide secret organizations, and even world destruction, Diaz's plan was just control of a crime syndicate.

This is what Arrow has been about since it's beginning though, crime. The fact is that we needed a villain like Diaz sooner, the show has always been about street level stuff and Darhk deferring from this is why he sucked lol. Furthermore what Diaz did to Oliver in season 7 especially wasn't a personal attack? Seriously, Kev?

It's not that toned down stakes is bad, but someone like Prometheus or Merlyn does it a lot better because they either posed a more personal threat to Oliver or there was a sense they could actually do what they wanted.

Diaz did do what he wanted, he lost in the end sure but he gained control of Star City, conquered and took control of the Quadrant's assets ect. Diaz did pose a personal threat to Oliver, he sent him to prison, nearly killed his wife and child, killed his father figure (Quentin) ect.

Everything about Diaz was super forced. Like everything, they had an episode that took us out of the bad story to show us that Diaz is maybe not that bad a guy, but no he really is.

No, the show never deluded itself into thinking Diaz wasn't a bad guy. They gave him an episode to show his motivations, to show why he's dangerous and needs to be stopped. Let's see what Diaz does in the episode where we're meant to believe according to you that he's not that bad. He kills half a dozen people, blows a man to smithereens after torturing him extensively, takes over a crime syndicate and burns his childhood bully alive. What's "not that bad" about that? The episode showed that Diaz is broken, haunted and traumatised but it never even remotely hinted he was a good guy,

Like Black Siren is super scared of him, and they never showed us why she should be. She could legit just kill him.

She tried that, guess what? It didn't work. Did we watch the same show lol?

Along with the second, Diaz never felt like a real threat.

Played a mastermind like a pawn, took over Star City after having said mastermind cripple it, took over a crime syndicate, nearly killed Oliver and co, killed Quentin, sent Oliver to prison nearly killed Felicity and William, beat the shit out of Oliver and nearly killed him but is not a threat. A simple lol will suffice here.

Following Caden James in the same season who had higher stakes(and more reasonable ngl),

James accomplished nothing beyond crippling the city and getting killed after being played like a pawn. Furthermore since you love to hate on Diaz why don't I hate on the fanbases lord and saviour Fodderetheus. For all his hype he accomplished far less than Diaz, he came up with a convoluted nonsense plan that you begin to digest how stupid it is upon re-watch, made Oliver depressed for an episode after forcing a confession out of him and then bet everything on a final choice that did nothing to impact the show. If Diaz is a loser what the hell is he?

a better skillset, and a more interesting motivation/connection to Oliver,

James's motivation was a repeat, Diaz's was unique. A simple, lol will suffice here.

Diaz just felt pointless.

A simple lol will suffice here.

To make this even worse when the FBI showed up his orginization got taken down. Not Argus who people like LoA have put to shame, literally the FBI. Diggle's shaky hand did more damage to the team then Diaz.

So the FBI taking out a crime syndicate was unexpected. Diaz's men aren't like the Ghosts or the LOA but are simple canon fodder. How Diaz getting taken down by the FBI after having dominance for the whole season is supposed to be bad is beyond me.

Diaz did not have good on screen presence. He wasn't intimidating like Prometheus or Slade, he wasn't charismatic like Merlyn or even Dahrk to a degree, he was just kinda there, and it felt like Oliver should've whooped his ass a long time ago.

Watch his very first scene where he kills Cayden then come back and say this with a straight face. He's calm, cold, calculating, menacing, in control ect. A simple lol will suffice here.

His motivation was stupid.

Ah, this shit.

Like really stupid.

A simple, lol will suffice here.

You can say Slade's motivation wasn't great, but it directly related to Oliver and he was insane.

Diaz's motivation did relate to Oliver. He's a street thug with an inferiority complex who wants control, Oliver made him lose that control so he wanted vengeance, payback, because that's all he's ever known. Payback and anger since the moment Jesse mistreated him. He's still that same tortured, weak child now, just more dangerous willing to do whatever he needs to get respect. Oliver humiliated him in a way he hasn't been humiliated since he was beneath Jesse. And all that makes him feel is fury

What does Diaz's motivation of getting respect do for him?

They make him compelling, everybody can relate to wanting something they can't have, to want to be respected and admired. Diaz is a great character because you can truly get a sense of how far he's willing to go to get what he wants. Furthermore he's menacing, intelligent and frightening.

Other then make him look like a whiny brat who doesn't deserve respect.

That's the thing though. Diaz is a whiny brat, he's a piece of shit who's had nothing his whole life and he wants to have control over everything as a result of that. He's essentially a cocky, egotistical child but dangerous, ruthless and cunning.

It doesn't confront any of Oliver's morals or his actions like Prometheus, Slade, Meryln, and even Caden James did, it was kinda just there to have a villain.

Did Cayden really challenge Oliver's morals or actions though lol?

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#44 Posted by JacenSolo77 (1243 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11442 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by JacenSolo77 (1243 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by PayneInTheAss (11187 posts) - - Show Bio

Diaz

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#48 Posted by The_Kidd (11805 posts) - - Show Bio

Diaz because the revolving Wells gimmick got corny after Harry.

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#49 Posted by GateOfBabylon (3697 posts) - - Show Bio

Diaz because the revolving Wells gimmick got corny after Harry.

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#50 Posted by Aqualion0 (1469 posts) - - Show Bio

Wells.