Are Marvel/DC pandering too much to the SJW nowadays?

https://archive.today/20150317043621/http://www.themarysue.com/vocal-minority-fans-practical-costumes/

I’m tired of the big two placating a vocal minority at the expense of the rest of the paying audience by making more practical women outfits— Erik Larsen (@ErikJLarsen) March 14, 2015

Apparently creator Erik Larsen thinks so. Here we go again…

“Simply put–these aren’t very good costumes. They’re bulky and clumsy and unattractive. — Erik Larsen (@ErikJLarsen) March 14, 2015

“Largely the arguments are either “Nobody would dress like that” (to which I point to the thousands of cosplayers who clearly disagree)…— Erik Larsen (@ErikJLarsen) March 14, 2015

“… or “That costume is impractical” (to which I point to the many athletes who participate in sports and wear considerably less… — Erik Larsen (@ErikJLarsen) March 14, 2015

“… because bulky clothes actually hinder movement). And in any case–these are lines on paper. People can’t fly in the real world…— Erik Larsen (@ErikJLarsen) March 14, 2015

“…or climb walls or spin webs–the notion that everything has to strictly adhere to the physical rules we’re bound by is absurd. — Erik Larsen (@ErikJLarsen) March 14, 2015

Simply put: Erik Larsen, creator of Savage Dragon and one of the founders of Image Comics, does not like theWonder Woman costume revealed last week.And he is, of course, entitled to his opinion on that end (I’m not a huge fan of the look either). But many took issue, not with his opinion on a costume, but with Larsen’s harsh words about his proposed reasoning for the change — fans themselves.Recent months have seen DC Comics’ Batgirl get a new creative team and costume in an effort to revitalize the character and Marvel’s Spider-Woman getting a new look as well, perhaps because of the massive backlash to one of their variant covers.Larsen certainly believes that’s the case; but were these choices made simply to please vocal comic book fans “bitching,” as he later elaborated, online? Or were they made to appeal to a different audience than the one the publishers had been marketing to as long as we can remember (18-34 year old males) and foster new readership?Larsen’s twitter conversations spanned overnight, also mentioning his dislike of the costume redesigns for Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan (a costume which is incredibly important to both her backstory and character development); Captain Marvel, Carol Danvers (a direct reference to the outfit worn by the male Captain Mar-Vell); and decrying Spider-Woman’s new fitted motorcycle jacket as a “potato sack.” Even after I posed the question, however, Larsen never responded to how he felt more practical superhero outfits harmed comic buyers at large. Specifically, as he mentioned, the only ones really speaking up were the smaller number of fans he feels use the internet.But it must be stated again, if this were just about Larsen’s opinion on the costume design itself, I don’t believe anyone would be up in arms; but he veered intospecifically offensive and tone deaf territory, blaming “[l]argely vocal critics on the web who get in a tizzy every time a woman character looks attractive,” which completely misses the point of most critiques and is the fallback defense whenever someone challenges the male-gaze norm of superhero comics.Larsen did point out that “[p]eople seem to assume that I’m championing sexy costumes and curvy women–this was never stated,” though many inferred as such from his comments. He also said, “The goal now seems to be to create something which an artist can’t make look sexy.”In a series of tweets, Marvel’s Steve Wacker let the world know his side of the Captain Marvel redesign:

“Changing Cap Marvel’s outfit was absolutely not due to fan reaction. It was something I’d wanted to do for years. @kellysue suggested @McKelvie and he delivered the basic look before I had hung up the phone. I loved it straightaway. The idea that the costume change was implemented because of a “vocal minority” is incorrect.There were a lot of reasons to chang[ing] the costume. One big one was that I wanted my daughter to be able to dress up as Captain Marvel. As editor I was in a position to make the change I wanted. That’s the job and it’s what we’re paid to do. Luckily Axel [Alonso], [Joe] Q[esada], [Tom] Brev[oort] agreed. We certainly got some folks upset with he costume change – mostly older fans – but that happens every time you do anything.I get that not every design is popular, but this one seems to have staying power. [I]t’s a very old school, classic super hero design. I’d hate for someone uninvolved with the decision to give the impression our artists were catering to some online “minority.” Blame me. I should add that Quesada also helped with direction on the design and helped us get it approved corporately. It’s a risk changing a longtime character design & I’m proud to work for a company that embraces risks. (Except of my “WackerMan” pitch)

In a now deleted post, another artist weighed in on the Wonder Woman costume. J Scott Campbell wrote on Facebook:

“I rarely comment about comic book industry matters on my personal FB page, but I gotta say, shoulder pads, especially big bulky metal ones NEVER look good on women. Everything about them is unfeminine and lacks style. No grace to this approach at all.And on a side note, I find the continued knee-jerk reaction to internet message board critics demands to keep female heroines covered from head to toe in fabric an overreaction. She’s an Amazon Warrior, she’s NOT in the *Taliban!

And after some rightfully angry feedback to those words:

“(*Well, apparently the Twitterverse is flipping out over my comparison of her coverage to being in the Taliban. It was a flippant and off the cuff exaggeration. Figured that was obvious, but I suppose you can’t be surprised these days. Also, my issue wasn’t with “women wearing armor,” it was with the bulky clunky shoulder pads. Again, a detail lost over there on Twitter I guess.)

“I’m very happy not to be drawing this. Political correctness by committee doesn’t interest me,” he also wrote, referencing the “pressures of corporate conglomerates” and that “[t]here are tasteful and non-trashy ways to have some exposed skin without resorting to this mess. Everyone is afraid of everything these days and my god does it show! … This is how the angry side of the feminists are reacting to my critique of the costume on Twitter. Why exactly did my criticism of a bad costume design turn into an anti-feminist attack… Oh right… ‘The Internet’.”Campbell also got into a lengthy discussion on Twitterbut neither creator specifically referenced editors who forced them into a certain artistic direction, and we haven’t sat in on any editorial meetings lately so we can’t say with any certainty why these changes are made but for the most part reasoning is always going to be to gain readership. That is, after all, the main direction of comic publishers.He also asked if readers aren’t able to handle a more traditionally “Amazonian” Wonder Woman anymore:

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J. Scott Campbell added 2 new photos.

Artist · 324,033 Likes

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I’ve been informed by many on Twitter this weekend that we can no longer handle THIS kind of Wonder Woman any more. Are they right..?* Different, updated, but still recognizable as the multi-decades-long icon that she is ✓* Authentic visual connection to her Grecian/Roman Amazonian culture and background ✓

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Share · 11,397536529To which we think it’s probably helpful to remind everyone that there is a significant difference between a “sexy” costume and a “sexualized” costume designed solely for the male gaze and a very specific type of consumption by the reader.Other industry folks got into the conversation over the weekend as well:

“I like Erk a lot, but this is embarrassing.— GAIL SIMONE (@GailSimone) March 15, 2015

“Hey, all you women who are now reading comics, quit being a vocal minority while dad is trying to sleep! — GAIL SIMONE (@GailSimone)March 15, 2015

“I can never understand why it’s so difficult just to say, “this isn’t to my taste, but I am glad others like it.”— GAIL SIMONE (@GailSimone) March 15, 2015

“There are still a sizable number of people in the industry who see women as intruders. I don’t think Erik is one of them. But they exist. — GAIL SIMONE (@GailSimone) March 15, 2015

“I recall being called variations of “vocal minority,” sometimes nicely, more often not, many times when I started in comics.It’shorseshit.— GAIL SIMONE (@GailSimone) March 15, 2015

Batgirl writer and artist Cameron Stewart also spoke up, dropping the proverbial mic:

“The absolute last thing I want in my mind when I’m drawing Batgirl is whether some gross dinosaur is getting turned on looking at it — Cameron Stewart (@cameronMstewart) March 15, 2015

Plus, it seems that Spider-Woman’s new design hasn’t exactly hurt sales:

“It looks like Spider-Woman #5 is getting a second printing. So glad to see people sticking around post-Spider-Verse (or jumping on with 5).— Dennis Hopeless (@HopelessDent) March 12, 2015

Writer Kieron Gillen wasn’t having any of it, either:

“I hold the controversial position that when designing costumes you should consider things other than “can I wank to this?”— Kieron Gillen (@kierongillen) March 15, 2015

Then there was Chip Zdarsky just bein’ Chip:

“I hate the Captain Marvel costume because it’s really good and @McKelvie designed it— Chip Zdarsky, ok. (@zdarsky) March 15, 2015

To which Captain Marvel costume creator Jamie McKelvie responded:

“Really, though, I just want to make the kind of comics I wouldn’t be embarrassed to read in public.— Jamie McKelvie (@McKelvie) March 16, 2015

And well, we can’t be sure what this is in reference to but we’ll leave it here anyway:

“Keep talking, asshole. — Kelly Sue DeConnick (@kellysue) March 14, 2015

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I think its good when we see current events in comics. Besides, who could be opposed to justice and equality.

@sodamyat: seems to be the buzzword thrown around to justify changes

I think it's great that comics evolve and reflect current trends, and I love that many minority groups are being represented well. However, I don't like when creators are bullied or pressured by obnoxious, entitled narcissists with overactive twitter/tumblr accounts.

Its a double edged sword following pop culture trends to "stay relevant". On the one hand they're reflecting society and introducing recent events into comics. But on the other hand they tend to get bogged down in the noise from the stereotypical "internet fan", the one who's never happy even when they get their way.

Personally I like the new costumes, and I like the fact that comics as a whole are leaning away from the blatantly sexy outfits. It just makes me cringe whenever I try to introduce an outsider to comics and the first thing they see is PowerGirls rack "sure you read it for the articles". I'm not saying cover up everyone everywhere all the time, just at least have a reason behind aspects of a costume.

Very much so

That Savage Dragon dude is a top bloke

I'd like to point out that all this whining and complaining about minority characters is a large reason so many creators have given up and decided to make everyone a straight, white male. You can do so much more that that kind of character than one that's part of a minority. If you show a woman getting beat up, then you're promoting domestic violence. If you show a black man as a criminal, then you're promoting harmful stereotypes. But society thinks its perfectly ok to portray Asian characters as a stereotype or a "funny foreigner" since they aren't large enough of a minority to effect elections or anything. This is true with other minority groups as well. Only the minorities that are large enough get protection. So there is this weird thinking in the West, where if you're too small of a minority, then you don't matter, but if you're a majority group, you still don't matter. You have to be a minority group, but large enough to swing elections. For example, you can't insult Islam, but paganism and Christianity are ok to insult.

This whole debate is pretty stupid. Yeah, there were some female superheroes whose costumes went way overboard (Starfire, Powergirl), but Wonder Woman's or Supergirl's costumes were really not that bad, and didn't require the changes.

I mean, Spider-Man's costume is actually way more inappropriate, IMO. He's covered in super thin, skin-tight clothing, that shows off almost every detail of his body. And most male superheroes wear ridiculously tight costumes that shows off every muscle bulge.

But I really don't care that much. People can believe whatever they want, and read whatever comicbooks they want.