Are Elemental manipulation and Matter manipulation same thing?

If not what's are difference between them?and which one is more powerful?or they are the same thing?

@galactic_1000: it depends on the writer, but in most of the cases matter manipulation is more powerful. Matter manipulation is the ability to control matter itself, elements are only the basic elemental forces of nature (fire, wind, water, etc...) matter has endless possibilities beyond the forces of nature

@mbcb2001: Hmm.what Science says my friend? Do they think it's same thing or non same thing?

@galactic_1000: they are both not the same

@mbcb2001: So my friend which one is more powerful?are they equal or not?

@nemesisreloaded: Need Some answer about this.

matter manipulstion id more powerful , Dr manhattan is a prime example of this

@darkonast: My friend Does science says same thing?That matter is over elemental?

@darkonast: agree, matter manipulation includes the ability to control elements and more

element - a basic substance that can't be simplified (hydrogen, oxygen, gold, etc...)

atom - the smallest amount of an element

molecule - two or more atoms that are chemically joined together (H2, O2, H2O, etc...)

This what i am thinking about it after reading different websites.I don't know even those websites are correct or not.

@galactic_1000: Depends on definition of "element". If you think of elements like earth, wind, fire, air, then it is very limited and definitely weaker.

But if you use that scientific definition of elements you mentioned (hydrogen and stuff), then elemental manipulation would, scientifically in theory, be like changing iron to gold by altering the atomic structure. Someone like Firestorm, for example.

Matter manipulation would be controlling anything but light and sound. Something like plasma (which is what exists on our Sun; the hydrogen on the sun is so hot that it turns into the fourth matter phase, plasma) would be something a matter manipulator can control that an elemental manipulator most likely could also (even though it's plasma it still has to be an element, so that's where the blurred line is).

So if we look at it scientifically, all elements are matter, and if someone can change elements, then they can change atomic structure like electrons, protons, etc. so that means they are also atomic manipulators. But matter manipulators might be able to control beyond the atomic structure, like quarks or other smaller particles.

But if we look at what they are in comics and not scientific in definition, matter manipulators are below reality warpers, so they can't defy physics. So I guess that way they are the almost the same thing. By name, matter manipulators would have to be at least a little bit more powerful than elemental manipulators.

@retconcrisis: Thanks for awesome reply!Yeah RW is the ultimate application of all.

@galactic_1000: Matter manipulation is the ability to control all aspects of matter. Matter is all things that can be seen, or touched, even subatomic. So a matter manipulator should be able to transmute one type of matter into another and change it's density.

I think Elemental manipulation refers to Earth, Wind, Water and Fire manipulation and so is very basic matter manipulation and does not include organic matter. If you take the term more literally in manipulating the periodic table elements, then the real difference would be that matter manipulation goes into the sub-atomic and elemental manipulation from be atoms and above. That said, I think it only means Earth, Wind, Water and Fire and is much less powerful than Matter Manipulation.

Elemental Manipulation are more in line with "alchemy" fantasy which is often magical (or RPG-plot) in nature. Elemental usually refering to some mythical alchemy era element designations: Fire, Earth, Water, Air, and in some eastern version includes Wood and Metal.

I think Matter manipulation is the more modern take of the ability adjusted to a better understanding of physical science. Like the idea of molecular, atomic and sub-atomic interactions.

The usage would probably depend on the flavor. Fictional worlds sets on high fantasy/medieval/renaissance/early-to-mid steam-punk settings would usually refer to the ability as elemental manipulation to fit the flavor to the world.

Late steampunk/diesel punk/atomicpunk/cyberpunk would probably use the term matter manipulation.

@nemesisreloaded: What about scientific definition of elemental(hydrogen,oxygen etc)generator rex used scientific definition of elemental.

@galactic_1000: I think you're confusing the word 'Elemental' with 'Elementary'. Elemental is a word more associated with nature, i.e Earth, Wind, Water, Fire. Elementary means the most basic or foundation, the building blocks of everything else - elements and atoms.

@nemesisreloaded: Elements are substances that cannot be separated into simpler substances. Salt is made up of the elements sodium and chloride. Water is made up of the elements hydrogen and oxygen. The smallest particles of matter are called atoms.

Also Does that In rex universe they are talking Fire,ice water etc?

No

@galactic_1000: Just because different words have the same root doesn't mean they mean the same thing. Element, elementary, elemental all have different definitions. The elemental forces of nature are different from the elements that are the atoms that make up the world as we know it.

But even ignoring that, matter manipulation goes further and would include anything partical, even the subatomic. And that's a totally different ability.

@nemesisreloaded: So what`s elemental means in generator rex?it`s a science fiction cartoon?Also why scientists in generator rex says it`s a dominion code and can do anything?

Bump

@galactic_1000: Roswell having power over Fire and Ice sounds more nature power than matter manipulation

@nemesisreloaded: So what's nature power I thought nature is everything.

@galactic_1000:

Imagine its f1000 years ago and you don't have any idea at all what the hell an atom is.

What are the elements? They are air, water, ice, fire, wood, earth, and metal. That's what Elemental is, natural elements you see things are made of in the world around you with your own eyes, not in an electron microscope.

@nemesisreloaded: +1000 likes

Depending on the source, elemental manipulation allows only for the telekinetic manipulation of the alchemical elements: earth, fire, water, and air. Matter manipulation is basically just that, but the unrestricted version. You can manipulate all matter in whatever form. That being said, matter manipulation should be more powerful since you can simply do more with it.

Can Elemental manipulator control Shadows,Light?

Same thing, just 2 sides of the same coin.

As for the question, yes, Light is still considered as an element.

As for the topic: No, MM and EM are different, think of matter manipulation as of telekinesis but on molecular level with transmutation and all bunch of insanity.

@lord_spectrum: Thanks :)

@galactic_1000:

No problem. :)))

Same thing. All matter is made of elements. All elements are matter.

@bee14ish: elements & elemental is different thing.They are not same.

Definition of elemental: primary or basic; concerned with chemical elements or other basic components; of, relating to, or being an element.

I don't know about you, but they seem to be the same thing to me.

@bee14ish: Just read @nemesisreloaded comments in this thread :)

I've read them. He confuses and mixes the definitions of words. I disagree with his interpretation, so I gave my own.

@nemesisreloaded: Need your thoughts.

What exactly do you mean by each?

Are you talking elemental manipulation in the sense that someone can control a river, or wind, or the weather? Does it mean control over something down to the level of its base elements?

If the latter, than Elemental control should be similar, to matter control, but matter goes further than your periodic table of elements, it has the subatomic particles, protons, electrons, neutrons, their respective antiparticles, then quarks and bosons, and whatever other infinitesimally smaller particles that make up an element.

Anyone capable of manipulating matter is explicitly capable of elemental manipulation. But not the other way around.

^this^

Yes and no: An elemental manipulator can control pure elements... those on the periodic table but would be unable to control compounds, alloys, etc. whereas a matter manipulator could control any thing with an atomic structure.

Matter Manipulation might have more range and versatility.

depends on definition