Are critics harder on DC films just because it's trendy to be that way?

Even though marvel films are better, doesn't it seem like the critics wait like snipers for DC movies? It's like they rush to pick them apart so Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes can show the world how "right" they are.

MoS was better than both of those movies......

they clearly do it because its a trend now

Honestly, the critics seem to be much harder on DCEU films in particular than others. Look at all the other bad/mediocre films that came out this year. They didn't go NEARLY as hard on them as Suicide Squad or BvS. Independence Day Resurgance is higher on RT for God's sake.

Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, and Suicide Squad were all better than the X-men movies, The Incredible Hulk, and Iron Man 2 & 3, yet rotten tomatoes still feels the need to hate on DC films. Even Avengers 2 got a better rating than Man of Steel. I feel like they are paid to hate on DC. The critics make false accusations at DC films as well. For example, a few critics say that nothing was cool in BvS. You are lying if you thought that the action scenes weren't cool. Doomsday looked a bit off, but even his scenes were badass af! So in all, I'd say just ignore rotten tomatoes and the rest of the critics. Most of them are failed actors anyways.

The Wolverine is fox and whatever misgivings about the MCU any of us may have, they still make competently made films. There haven't been editing errors or crazy mistakes made. Lets face it, comic book fans are incredibly hard to please and most, if not all, the MCU films were positively received by the general audience. Hell, I didn't like Thor The Dark World and I've yet to meet someone who didn't like it. DCEU films have just been divisive to a point. Most critics have got no earthy idea which is which when it comes to the CBM's. They care about whether its a good film or not and frankly, the DCEU hasn't made a solid film yet. Except for Suicide Squad. At the end of the day it just comes down to opinion and personal preference. I will say this though, no DCEU or MCU film has been as bad as Green Lantern, Batman and Robin, Superman 4, Catwoman or X men: origins: Wolverine.

It's because everybody and their mother has an opinion on how these characters should act even if they know nothing about them. In addition to that, those same people have opinions on how a CBM should feel thanks to the dominance of the MCU.

Look to the MCU movies where people constantly praise RDJ even though his rendition of Tony Stark is a far cry from the traditional version. Or Falcon and Rhodey, who are basically summed up as "black sidekicks who make jokes sometimes" even though they're hardly like that in the comics. Or Scarlet Witch who is Russian spy without a Russian accent who only needs to be sexy and cool to get praise but lacks personality beyond that. Look how interchangeable Scott Lang and Star-Lord are. The list goes on.

The fact is, the MCU benefits from the lack of general knowledge about their characters. The DCEU doesn't have that advantage. No one has an opinion on how a character should act in an MCU movie outside being funny, cool, or lighthearted. And as long as that delivers, the movie is successful. However, with these DCEU films, for some reason, everybody already has an idea. With Superman, we have the Reeve films to blame. Batman and Joker, we have Nolan to blame. We can even blame the cartoons given how widely popular they were. I bet if they made a Hawkgirl movie where she was a funny, joking character, everybody would flip their shit because she wasn't like that in the JL cartoons.

Then, you have the fact that the DCEU basically opened up as the antithesis of the brand the MCU put out. Their movies attempted to carry heavier narratives and themes, and I guess nobody wants that in a CBM. When you attempt to ascend, or bring something radically new to the genre, and fail (according to the critics and some fans), it's just gonna highlight the mistakes. I'm not saying BvS was perfect, for example, though. But still, a lot of it's criticism came from a tone people didn't accept for these characters or CBM's in general.

I think dc fans are just perpetually victimized by both the dceu and rt and now have a complex. wb suffers from execs who interfere too much with the movies and order crazy edits along with Snyder who is semi competent but not a great director. Some of the mcu movies have definitely been overrated a bit in comparison but I don't think critics are really out to get the dceu. The dceu has just been its own worst enemy for the most part.

@buttersdaman000: preach!!!!!! And I also think since the mcu started all other cbms have been judged by the tone that universe set which is why TDKR wasn't really as popular or widely received as the former 2

Marvel Studios takes no chances. I'll repeat: Marvel Studios takes ABSOLUTELY ZERO F**KING CHANCES. They make the most formulaic, predictable, zero consequences, wonder bread, fun for the whole family films. Now, don't call me a marvel hater, I read several marvel titles and enjoy most MCU films. But at least WB has tried to create original stories and be creative

I'd say they're harder on them because DCEU movies just aren't that good.

@jtmac005: Create original films? Yeah right.

Anyways, Are we gonna see these threads everytime a DCEU movie is reviewed poorly? (Who am I kidding? Of course we will)

And to answer you're question, no, most critics (non biased critics) judge these movies by its technical aspects (pacing, editing, things of the like)

I think it's funny how all DC movies are grouped as a whole here, yet Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, and The Dark Knight Rises are all highly rated. It's just the DCEU movies that are rated poorly. So did anyone stop to consider that maybe, JUST MAYBE, it's the DCEU movies are sub par and not just DC in general? Or are you all going to continue to play victim and take this shit personally?

This and some few other things. Well said.

the % on RT cant be taken seriously if your choices are give it 0% or 100%

Critics didn't like Mos because it was so much different than the standard set by MCU movies. SS was just horrendous, I don't understand why people are defending it.

Crybabies

*clears throat*

hello. um...hey guys. hello. I would just like to say, if I may...what..what if DC just put out three dawgy sh*t movies? I personally feel all the DCCU movies lack direction and confidence. How come DC just can't...simply suck. Isn't that the most probable conclusion. All of these DC apologist and crap ass fanboy conspiracy theories just makes DC look that much worse. Trust me on that.

Why is that screenshot for The Wolverine so old and out of date?

I agree. I think the "complex" is something that honestly I never thought would be a relevant accusation, but now fans if they aren't desperate, changing the story (how many times were we told DC films would be the "thinking mans" movies? And now that the thinking men have spoken, it's now "just enjoy the superhero fun"........), or just plain aggressive now think critics hate DC films + dark and serious. Even though critics have eaten up the latter on numerous occasions when it's actually done right. Dark and serious do not automatically equate to "incredible story" and "depth" unlike what you would be led to believe. For the record I actually enjoyed Man of Steel and to a lesser extent BvS, but I honestly wouldn't give the latter a rewatch outside of the fight scenes on Youtube unlike how I would with the former.

On a similar question, why doesn't The Wolverine never get the credit it deserves?

also IM3 was a good movie. way better than MoS.

Lol, yet audience scores agree with critics?

Cinema Score Data

Deadpool A (RT 84%)

Batman V Superman B (RT 27%)

Cap Civil War A (RT 90%)

X-Men Apocalypse A- (RT 48%)

Suicide Squad B+ (RT currently at 26%)

So the thread title should be "

"Are movie audiences harder on DC films just because it's trendy to be that way?"

But what that would mean? That Marvel Studios is so powerful that monopolized/defined an entire genre? So audiences now dislike Nolan's Batman vibe? Yet they are giving the characters from that franchise huge opening weekends?

Its too obvious that most of this threads are just excuses to try spin why other people don't like what you already knew that would like, because fits some of your fav. characters from the comics medium, there is no controversy regarding B v S, it was poorly received by critics and audiences, but since that characters have big fan bases that can make noise inside the comic book bubble, we get a lot of this threads/noise... Fiction quality in general is subjective but some of the Box Office numbers are objective and when movies have 69% drop in the second weekend is a clear sign that audiences didn't like that movie... Now lets spin it against the gen movie going audience, but if we follow that path the conclusion will always be the same, if your not good in this business try other...

WB have themselves to blame. I'm sick of fans bitching.

And why does critical reception matter so much anyway?

If there is bias against DC movies by critics its that way because a bunch of idiots that don't know how rotten tomatoes works insulted their entire job and their integrity over one of those movies and people responsible for making these movies joined in on that and even suggested they were corrupt and getting paid for their reviews being like that, literally accusing them of a crime.

Thoseh idiots apparently include the OP as you can clearly see that there are not just critics but also more regular audience that liked Iron Man 3 than man of steel. And stop with this rottentomatoes bullshit most critics are way more interested in their reviews being viewed and read than people starring at a rottentomatoes score, while the website itself literally just collects reviews from other sources and is partially owned by WarnerBros the people who make these movies and own DC.

Both critics and audience give man of steel and Thor 2 on average the exact same score! There is merely a smaller percentage of people that gave it a score above the half way mark 5/10 in case of the critics, which translates to man of steel having more bad reviews and the good reviews by critics considered it better than thor 2, while audience generally view it the exact same way as Thor 2(3% is a neglectable difference), one of the worst marvel movies. But hey its these biased critics that are the problem!

Learn how rottentomatoes work, numbnuts!

The image in the OP is not correct. The Wolverine only has 69% on RT. And it was better than Man of Steel, in my opinion.

Looking for conspiracies or trends against DC is foolish. If a great DC film came out, it would get great reviews. Man of Steel was solid, and got decent reviews.

Everything else has been really sub par, and the ratings reflect that.

No

@stahlflamme said:

If there is bias against DC movies by critics its that way because a bunch of idiots that don't know how rotten tomatoes works insulted their entire job and their integrity over one of those movies and people responsible for making these movies joined in on that and even suggested they were corrupt and getting paid for their reviews being like that, literally accusing them of a crime.

Thoseh idiots apparently include the OP as you can clearly see that there are not just critics but also more regular audience that liked Iron Man 3 than man of steel. And stop with this rottentomatoes bullshit most critics are way more interested in their reviews being viewed and read than people starring at a rottentomatoes score, while the website itself literally just collects reviews from other sources and is partially owned by WarnerBros the people who make these movies and own DC.

Both critics and audience give man of steel and Thor 2 on average the exact same score! There is merely a smaller percentage of people that gave it a score above the half way mark 5/10 in case of the critics, which translates to man of steel having more bad reviews and the good reviews by critics considered it better than thor 2, while audience generally view it the exact same way as Thor 2(3% is a neglectable difference), one of the worst marvel movies. But hey its these biased critics that are the problem!

Learn how rottentomatoes work, numbnuts!

So...is there any way to give this post a thumbs up?

*sigh*

@mike_fowler: the only recent DC film that was clearly influenced from popular comics was BvS. So, yeah, I'd say WB is more original and daring than the mcu.

There are a plethora of other fan rating websites and sources outside of Cinemascore which differ drastically. For example, IM3 is a 7.2 on IMBd, a 4/5 on RT, a 6.4/10 on Metacritic, A on Cinemascore, 4.4/5 on Google Play, 4.2/5 on Amazon, and a 3.1/5 on Comicbook movie. Some movie's have more consistent scores, others are even more inconsistent, but the fact that it varies drastically from movie to movie.

And also, the fact that you are trying to equate fan ratings to critical ratings is laughable. They are two entirely different things. One rating is vastly subjective in which that the people voting rate the movies base off of their personal enjoyment, which can range from meaning that they found the movie genuinely good to that the movie had enough "funny moments" to the movie wasn't too serious to it had good "kick ass action" (fan reception). Fan ratings are a good way at judging how much people like a film (even then, as I've pointed out above, it's a hard task since it varies so much), but EVEN THEN the vast majority of movie goers aren't taking time out of their day to give a movie a rating online. So a movie may score a 7 on IMBd, but in reality, if you gather a score from EVERYONE who rated it, it'd be more like a 8.5 (even the cinemascore rating has it's flaws).

On the other hand, the other rating system is supposedlyobjective in nature, and it bases the film's rating on how well of a film it was (critics); how coherent of a plot it had, how good it's narrative was, character development, underlying themes and how they impact the story, how unique the film is, acting, etc. This endeavor is still subjective too, but certain parts of it are not, and one does not have to go film school to realize that, from a narrative, thematic, plot, story, and character development point of view, that MoS is AT LEAST ON PAR with much of the bland, cliche MCU films. However, as buttersdaman000 clearly pointed out, there's an underlying bias, not only among critics, but also among fans about how these movies and their characters "should be" (Which means that fan scores will lend themselves to be more favorable towards MCU movies for the reasons in which he pointed out, even if they are drastically inferior from a narrative pov).

One can point to all the reviews they want, but it is blatantly obvious that there is bias against how people, not just critics in general, judge DC films. I mean, you can just see it in people's critiques of BvS (this is not MY Superman/Batman, it's too dark, not enough laughs, there's no plot, just two guys fighting each other, Doomsday & Lex Luthor are out of character). All of those complaints are either a) subjective and thus have no negative affect on how the film's narrative, plot, and story are; b) ideas of how they think these characters "should" be despite this being an else-world to Earth zero, or despite these versions being based on previous comic interpretations, and thus being comically accurate to a degree; or are c) completely nitpick complaints and hold absolutely zero merit.

You think CinemaScore is a Fan rating like imdb? Laughable is how you run with something that you are not enough knowledgeable about... Not that was hard to be informed how cinemascore works since its very visible at the front of their home page...

CinemaScore^® is the industry leader in measuring movie appeal among theatre audiences. Since 1978, CinemaScore has been polling moviegoers at major movie releases on opening night to collect demographic information and calculate a distinctive CinemaScore grade.

What was your argument anyway?

@stahlflamme: You sir deserve a medal

@demfeettho: Eh. Regardless, Man Of Steel was still better than some MCU films. They're critics though, so it's not like it matters. The movies still turn a profit and tell a story. Suicide Squad especially.

I've seen some of the lasiest criticisms heaved at this film by people who seem to know nothing of comics.

Lol, I know EXACTLY how cinemascore works. It sends pollers to various large cities around the US to collect personal information and rating for the film. To use these numbers and apply them to everyone is problematic, for various reasons. 1) The people polled are a tiny percentage of total movie goers. MILLIONS of people watch these big budget films IN THE US ALONE, and tens, sometimes hundreds of millions worldwide. 2) They only poll large populated cities and urban areas, despite over half of the countries population live in the suburbs, and 21% live in rural areas. Why is this important? Well, for one people who live in different geographical locations have different taste ranging from clothing choices, to favorite sports, to politics, to movies. And the taste in movie goers changes drastically when you venture OUT of the country. Urban areas also have different demographics from uban areas, which affects scores. 3) They only survey North American's, which ignores the other 60%+ of the movie going audience, who, like I've previously stated, have varying opinions.

So saying you're the industry leader at polling movie opinions is like saying you're the industry leader at polling for political campaigns, or you're the industry leader at weather predicting; that's dandy and all, but that field of work is very, VERY unpredictable, so being the industry leader doesn't say much.

Also, I like how you address that 1 point, and completely miss all the other points I pointed out.

All in all, none of that changes what was pointed out by me and butters.

Everyone here writes their theory on why DCEU gets so much hate while i'm here feeling like it's because the movies above are much better structured than any DCEU film to date.

You subjectively enjoy MoS more because it stands out while the others are sequels (to better movies i might add) but the other ones are still better made objectively compared to MoS witch had majors flaws structurally. Add to that MoS is the best made DCEU film to date and you can see why DCEU movies have had constant bad reviews.

Trends hurt sales, not critics. The ongoing failures from DCEU is them digging their reputation a grave that once they'll make a good movie it's not gonna get the sales it needs to support a franchise even with the praise of critics.

I think DC fans are overly sensitive to the movies ( BvS and SS honestly) not being great. Man of Steel is better than Wolverine and I loved IM3 so I'd put them neck and neck. I think Man of Steel got hammered by the critics because it was dark and the "neck snap heard around the world" jarred critics who may have been expecting something else.

@stahlflamme said:

If there is bias against DC movies by critics its that way because a bunch of idiots that don't know how rotten tomatoes works insulted their entire job and their integrity over one of those movies and people responsible for making these movies joined in on that and even suggested they were corrupt and getting paid for their reviews being like that, literally accusing them of a crime.

Thoseh idiots apparently include the OP as you can clearly see that there are not just critics but also more regular audience that liked Iron Man 3 than man of steel. And stop with this rottentomatoes bullshit most critics are way more interested in their reviews being viewed and read than people starring at a rottentomatoes score, while the website itself literally just collects reviews from other sources and is partially owned by WarnerBros the people who make these movies and own DC.

Both critics and audience give man of steel and Thor 2 on average the exact same score! There is merely a smaller percentage of people that gave it a score above the half way mark 5/10 in case of the critics, which translates to man of steel having more bad reviews and the good reviews by critics considered it better than thor 2, while audience generally view it the exact same way as Thor 2(3% is a neglectable difference), one of the worst marvel movies. But hey its these biased critics that are the problem!

Learn how rottentomatoes work, numbnuts!

Thanks for explaining it to people surprising how many don't know how it works, thought they'll still find ways to moan about critics bias against DCEU instead of accepting maybe their film wasn't amazing.

they have to be. when there's no humor or light tone to keep them entertained, a dark and serious tone forces them to pay attention and nitpick at stuff when they're not having fun

@stahlflamme: Great post. Now maybe people will quit their bitching and complaining.

Or they won't, and they'll continue to play victim. I hope it's the former.

From what I've heard the critics have been right Rotten tomatoes gives the film an average score of 4.7 so about 5/10 making the film just average which is what I've heard it is from a lot of people who have seen it anyways. Both BvS and SS are at about 5/10 not like they're being called the worst films of all time they just have clear flaws and even the general audience have been saying the same. So maybe just accept the films aren't amazing and also learn how RT works the percentage doesn't mean a rating of the film it's just the percentage of critics that rated it over 5/10 and RT isn't an independent reviewing site it just compiles loads of reviews to get averages I doubt all the reviewers have a vendetta against DC.

Even Man Of Steel was at a 6.2/10 on it which is above average and also pretty much level with The Wolverine, TDW and IM2 it's also higher than X-Men Apocolypse which was a 5.7/10, all marvel films so I don't understand all the whining and bitching about it just accept most people thought the films were average or didn't like them doesn't mean you can't like them cause everyone else doesn't.

Yes

How many of these threads do we need?

@petey_is_spidey:

Lol, I know EXACTLY how cinemascore works.

How if you made direct comparisons with imdb, where hardcore fans vote without see the movie? You initial quote below...

"here are a plethora of other fan rating websites and sources outside of Cinemascore which differ drastically. For example, IM3 is a 7.2 on IMBd, a 4/5 on RT, a 6.4/10 on Metacritic, A on Cinemascore, 4.4/5 on Google Play, 4.2/5 on Amazon, and a 3.1/5 on Comicbook movie. Some movie's have more consistent scores, others are even more inconsistent, but the fact that it varies drastically from movie to movie".

It sends pollers to various large cities around the US to collect personal information and rating for the film. To use these numbers and apply them to everyone is problematic, for various reasons. 1) The people polled are a tiny percentage of total movie goers. MILLIONS of people watch these big budget films IN THE US ALONE, and tens, sometimes hundreds of millions worldwide. 2) They only poll large populated cities and urban areas, despite over half of the countries population live in the suburbs, and 21% live in rural areas. Why is this important? Well, for one people who live in different geographical locations have different taste ranging from clothing choices, to favorite sports, to politics, to movies. And the taste in movie goers changes drastically when you venture OUT of the country. Urban areas also have different demographics from uban areas, which affects scores. 3) They only survey North American's, which ignores the other 60%+ of the movie going audience, who, like I've previously stated, have varying opinions.

You forget the crucial word calculate... And yet they are very credible with great results? That any prediction/projection always acknowledges? Below a deadline quote...

"But, when it comes to the audience and critics’ response to the film, it’s deja-vu all over again. Like Batman v. Superman, which earned a 27% Rotten Tomatoes score and B CinemaScore, Suicide Squad is getting panned by critics (26%) and has registered an above average response from CinemaScore crowds who gave it a B+ tonight". link

Humm... Let me think who should i give more credit your spin or cinemascore? Also did you said out of the US, funny how RT or any of the stuff that we are discussing matters 0% in China and yet Ant-Man performs better than B v S?

So saying you're the industry leader at polling movie opinions is like saying you're the industry leader at polling for political campaigns, or you're the industry leader at weather predicting; that's dandy and all, but that field of work is very, VERY unpredictable, so being the industry leader doesn't say much.

Unpredictable in what sense?

Deadpool A (RT 84%)... Second weekend drop -57.4%

Batman V Superman B (RT 27%) Second weekend drop -69.1%

Cap Civil War A (RT 90%) Second weekend drop -59.5%

X-Men Apocalypse A- (RT 48%) Second weekend drop -65.3%

Suicide Squad B+ (RT currently at 26%) Second weekend drop ???

Also, I like how you address that 1 point, and completely miss all the other points I pointed out.

Why should i address your personal opinion on narrative or acting? Or what you or anyone else that loves the Dceu just spins in every possible direction to stay away from the reality that B v S was like i said, "poorly received by critics and audiences"... Even in China... Also did you read this quote...

"But what that would mean? That Marvel Studios is so powerful that monopolized/defined an entire genre? So audiences now dislike Nolan's Batman vibe? Yet they are giving the characters from that franchise huge opening weekends?"

Audiences said present to B v S just like SS, and you can see that in the opening weekend numbers, general audiences would not spend money in what they (already) knew that they would dislike by preferences default, that only happens with some Cv fans/users... The argument that the audiences/critics now only accept one formula for cbm is just false (to not use other words), in fact Deadpool appeal was in not follow the norm... And we both know the results... Oh, also don't give so much credit to the Mcu your reinforcing a brand that you dislike...

All in all, none of that changes what was pointed out by me and butters.

Sure, because that is just another example from what i also said in my other original quote, text below...

"Its too obvious that most of this threads are just excuses to try spin why other people don't like what you already knew that would like, because fits some of your fav. characters from the comics medium,"

The hard truth is that you & others that love the Dceu or more specifically Superman character, are constantly in damage control because unfortunately WB continues to make mistake after mistake with this universe, yet you guys could be less naive because you are just setting lower and lower standards for the upcoming projects...

In fact i like some of your posts dude, but (apparently) you seem more and more blinded with your preferences...

Guys, come on. Didn't we just literally argue or fight about this recently?