Are comic heroe's death a waste?

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Nighthunter

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#1  Edited By Nighthunter

I mean think about it

in big events they kill a lot of characters who nobody cares about

or they kill characters that are worthy like green arrow, ra's al ghul, hal jordan just to eventually resurect them

is there any point in doing that?

A worthy death would be one like Barry Allen who after 22 years is still remembered and mentioned in comics, and instead of resurrecting him he was replaces by a better character Wally

Another form of doing a worthy death is killing a character that his absense dauses a big deal and changing in the DCU or Marvel universe, with characters like superman and captain america that eventually came back (I don't know if Steve will come back but the fact is that Marvel needs a captain america as much as dc needs one superman)

Instead of doing another topic I may use this also for asking you which marvel or dc hero would you like to see die

mine are:

Nightwing- Yes, I know it sounds strange coming from me. and don't get me wrong I still love the character and quite enjoy his book thanks to marv wolfman, and the fact that he isn't in the outsiders anymore makes me more than happy but man he is dick grayson if he died like he was going to do on the IC I could see the DCU have a total twist because like Phil Jimenze pointed "Dick has so many conections to other characters. In many ways, even more than superman or batman, nightwing is the soul, the linchpin of the DCU. He's well respected by everyone, known to the JLA, the titans, the outsiders, Birds of Prey- everyone looks to him for advice, for friendship, for his skill. He's the natural leader of the DCU. His loss would devastate everyone and create ripples through the DCU"

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Cryo-Wolf

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#2  Edited By Cryo-Wolf

It leaves people in suspense.

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Copy

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#3  Edited By Copy

no killing character aren't a waist they bring back characters cause people want them back and sometimes they kill charcters for a reason

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Methos

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#4  Edited By Methos

I'd say it depends on the character...

2 deaths that immediately spring to mind for this example...

Death of Supergirl in Crisis on Infinite Earths... possibly the most memorable death in the DCU bar Superman's.

amazingly well written, her death was integral to the plot and it was an amazing death scene...

Death of Jade in Infinite Crisis...

an example of a stupid death where everything she did and could have done was killed off for the sole reason of turning Kyle back into Ion, which was later retconned away anyway with the symbiote (spit) crap turning her death into another random irrelevancy in the DCU.

M

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Nighthunter

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#5  Edited By Nighthunter

Copy says:

"no killing character aren't a waist they bring back characters cause people want them back and sometimes they kill charcters for a reason"

what I say is that I find more interesting a death of a worthy character if it changes or at least impact the dcu or the marvel universe

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crazy spidey

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#6  Edited By crazy spidey

Superman's death was a filler, so ya his was pointless

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The_Ghostshell

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#7  Edited By The_Ghostshell

I actually like comic deaths and don't care if I know there coming back. Death of Superman was a great story, death of Captain America is a great story, even Robin's death was a great story. So what if they come back its a basic component of comics that no one stays dead forever.

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Case Closed

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#8  Edited By Case Closed

It's weird, we want the suspense of death to exist when our characters go to battle. But in our hearts we rejoice when they come back to life because we want the suspense without ever losing our guy.

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Donnieman v5.1

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#9  Edited By Donnieman v5.1

I love comic deaths and I find most of them extremely relevant

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BuckshotWasHere

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#10  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator

If the death is done well then even when they come back it's still important and doesn't reflect badly on the character. You have to remember that it's just a story told to entertain. A character's death is just a device and can be just as important to the overall story as the character's life if done well. Repeatedly undoing deaths doesn't in and of itself make it bad, it just makes it harder each time for the reader to feel for the character, lessening the impact each time. That's what makes it bad, but a first/final death can be just as bad for the same reason. If the story supports (or progresses because of) the death and the reader has the right reaction, a death (whether it's the first or the fiftieth) can be a great thing, it's just less likely that that will happen the more death (of that character or just in general) is used.

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Vrakmul

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#11  Edited By Vrakmul

You know what's unusual. The hero always dies but the villain almost never does.

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BuckshotWasHere

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#12  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator

Dreadnaught says:

"You know what's unusual. The hero always dies but the villain almost never does."

Depends which comics you're reading.

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Donnieman v5.1

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#13  Edited By Donnieman v5.1

Buckshot says:

"Dreadnaught says:
"You know what's unusual. The hero always dies but the villain almost never does."

Depends which comics you're reading."

I agree. Some companies kill villains all the time and others don't.

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Copy

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#14  Edited By Copy

i liked it when spiderman died in the other i thought it was well written

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gmanfromheck

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#15  Edited By gmanfromheck

If written well, it can be interesting (like Brubaker's excellent Cap stories). I don't like deaths as a simple plot device. It does seem to be overused. Hero killed, oh well. They'll be back. Have the death mean something. If a publisher is going to allow a character to die, they shouldn't go back. Have the balls to stick with it or just don't do it. I love Bendis but didn't think it was necessary to kill Hawkeye. But surprise surprise, he's back (or is he?). I just remember when comics were fun. I don't need death and mayhem 24/7. What's going to happen in "One More Day"? Is someone going to die? Yawn. Often it just seems death is just the easy way for the writers to crank out another story. How about something somewhat original?

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Darkchild

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#16  Edited By Darkchild

ok u started this not me

I think some deaths should stay because they were integral to the plot of an arc or a story as a whole.

In my main case was Colossus death in the Legacy virus arc/whatever. He died so that all mutant kind could live on (yet still die from someother reason) and his death meant someting to its readers. And for them to bring him back spit is just idiotic. i love his character and his death made me like him more.

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Rotten gun

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#17  Edited By Rotten gun

do you think there was anything political in captain america's death? the timing? any hidden messages?

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The_Ghostshell

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#18  Edited By The_Ghostshell

Rotten gun says:

"do you think there was anything political in captain america's death? the timing? any hidden messages? "

Thats a good question. Kinda like the death of democracy or the America we thought we lived in.

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Rotten gun

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#19  Edited By Rotten gun

King of Kings says:

"Rotten gun says:
"do you think there was anything political in captain america's death? the timing? any hidden messages? "
Thats a good question. Kinda like the death of democracy or the America we thought we lived in."

iron man (power & greed) was the perfect villain for caps ideals.

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gabriel 2.1

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#20  Edited By gabriel 2.1

they have no idea that pisses people off especially hardcore fans
Post Edited:2007-09-23 05:01:12

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Eternal Chaos

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#21  Edited By Eternal Chaos

I think a comic death is a good death. Comicbooks make death more, "touching" for some people. I think the Death of Captain America is great, (I hope they bring him back though...) Death of Superman as much as I hate Superman, I like it.

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Nighthunter

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#22  Edited By Nighthunter

Darkchild says:

"ok u started this not me I think some deaths should stay because they were integral to the plot of an arc or a story as a whole. In my main case was Colossus death in the Legacy virus arc/whatever. He died so that all mutant kind could live on (yet still die from someother reason) and his death meant someting to its readers. And for them to bring him back **spit** is just idiotic. i love his character and his death made me like him more."

Ok your coment is something like mine about nightwing

I love the character, I know his death would impact the DCU so that it wouldn't be a waste of a death, and the reason he was proposed to die by dan didio I gotta admit made sence he would have been the best reason superman, batman and wonder woman had to mend things, and his death would make a lot of what happend in several DC comics with the one year later more sense.

But they would have eventually revived him, man if they revived jason they would have revived him at least dick doesn't suck (well I actually like jason when he is not a placeholder for dick I mean seriously first robin, then nightwing and now he'll be the new red robin)

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Eternal Chaos

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#23  Edited By Eternal Chaos

Nightwingprodigalson says:

" jason dick doesn't suck" blockquote>

LMAO! Those words should be in a different order.

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Nighthunter

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#24  Edited By Nighthunter

you say jason doesn't suck or what sorry is just that your post looks a little weird

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Eternal Chaos

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#25  Edited By Eternal Chaos

Nightwingprodigalson says:

"you say jason doesn't suck or what sorry is just that your post looks a little weird "

Lol, I just quoted 4 words that were right together, minus Jason so what was left was "Jason Dick doesn't suck". Than I said re arrange those words in a different order. It was a joke.

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Nighthunter

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#26  Edited By Nighthunter

Eternal Chaos says:

"Nightwingprodigalson says:
"you say jason doesn't suck or what sorry is just that your post looks a little weird "
Lol, I just quoted 4 words that were right together, minus Jason so what was left was "Jason Dick doesn't suck". Than I said re arrange those words in a different order. It was a joke."

ok sorry not very good english

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Eternal Chaos

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#27  Edited By Eternal Chaos

Nightwingprodigalson says:

"Eternal Chaos says:
"Nightwingprodigalson says:
"you say jason doesn't suck or what sorry is just that your post looks a little weird "
Lol, I just quoted 4 words that were right together, minus Jason so what was left was "Jason Dick doesn't suck". Than I said re arrange those words in a different order. It was a joke."
ok sorry not very good english "

Oh that's alright. What country are you from?

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Nighthunter

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#28  Edited By Nighthunter

mexico

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Nighthunter

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#29  Edited By Nighthunter

a hola de donde eres?

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Eternal Chaos

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#30  Edited By Eternal Chaos

Otro hispano? Ay que bueno.

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Eternal Chaos

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#31  Edited By Eternal Chaos

Yo soy de Puerto Rico.

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Cosmic Sentinel

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#32  Edited By Cosmic Sentinel

Jason Todd should have stayed dead, he had more meaning that way. He was a reminder that being Batman's sidekick isn't the safest occupation in the world. Alive, he's just a crappy character.

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Methos

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#33  Edited By Methos

crazy spidey says:

"Superman's death was a filler, so ya his was pointless"

firstly Slap.

secondly, Superman's death was one of the major story arc's in the DCU, it had so many far reaching repercussions that not many people take into consideration.

here's one repercussion of Superman's death that i can think of just off the top of my head, just to show you how far that one story went...

Death of Superman -->

Mongul comes to earth with Cyborg Superman -->

Cyborg Superman and Mongul destroy Coast City -->

because of the destruction of coast city, Hal goes mad with grief -->

Hal, mad with grief attacks the Green Lantern Corps and the Guardians -->

Destruction of the entire Green Lantern Corps -->

Leading to Kyle being anointed as the last Green Lantern. -->

Kyle goes on to evolve into Ion -->

Without Ion the "Infinite Crisis" would have been lost, leading to the destruction of the entire DCU...

wow... even i didn't realize it spread that far... without the Death of Superman, the DCU would have been destroyed in the "Infinite Crisis", not to mention we wouldn't have had Zero Hour, possibly the best DCU mass crossover ever...

Also, on a Tangent...

Without the Death of Superman, Hal Wouldn't have gone insane, he would have never turned into Parallax and the earth would have been destroyed in "Final Night".

so, the next time people say the Death of Superman didn't have any far reaching consequences, actually look at the characters involved first ok?

M

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The_Ghostshell

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#34  Edited By The_Ghostshell

People are always saying the Death of Superman sucked, but really what they most seemed pissed about is that he came back, cause the arc was $#@!ing great. I'm sick of people regurgitating the same line over and over.

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Methos

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#35  Edited By Methos

i loved it... the Death of Superman was the catalyst for so much change in the DCU...

M

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The_Ghostshell

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#36  Edited By The_Ghostshell

Methos says:

"i loved it... the Death of Superman was the catalyst for so much change in the DCU...M"

Not to mention it was a great story. I like Doomsday myself, I just watched the new DVD and it was sweet. It gave me so much more ammo for when the Hulk fans think he cant stand up to the almighty Hulk.

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Methos

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#37  Edited By Methos

lol, i've always said it... Doomsday would turn Hulk into a smear of green paste lol

M

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The_Ghostshell

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#38  Edited By The_Ghostshell

Methos says:

"lol, i've always said it... Doomsday would turn Hulk into a smear of green paste lolM"

People don't realize that although the Hulk is impressive he has emotions, like anger, but also fear, and pain. Doomsday has no emotion, he was created to be thee ultimate surviver, thee ultimate weapon if you will. His speed is way above the Hulks and before the Hulk got mad enough to do jack he would be dead.

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Methos

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#39  Edited By Methos

Dommsday is the ultimate killer... i can think of a handful of people in either universe that would survive going up against him

M