Poll Aizen tries to soul crush Jiren...... what happens next ? (97 votes)
Can Jiren resist ?
Can Jiren resist ?
@pandalumina: Jiren wouldn't have beaten Infinite Zamasu. People take the stronger statement to heart but thats just raw power as in AP wise. Zamasu at that point became a true 4th Dimensional being, had no physical form and was immortal
This is...irrelevent
They specifically state that his energy is having an effect on the future and present timelines
Energy being his own ki in this context
Jiren eclipses him in energy
Very simple
If you were to completely equalize stats between Bleach Characters and Dragon Ball Charcaters. Jiren would not be a threat wheras Zamasu would still solo the verse
This is also irrelevant.
Not sure why you brought this up?
@pandalumina: Zamasu merged with the timeline and was a literal 4D being that was spreading into others. Jiren has more AP but he cannot nuke a timeline and would not be able to overcome Zamasu's immortality. Zamasu didn't even have a physical body either. Jiren ecliping him in energy doesn't grant him the same hax Zamasu had. It was Zamasu's presense, his very existence that merged with the multiverse, not his ki
It would be a stalemate. He can’t put Zamasu down. Jiren is a brick
imagine thinking that Aizen soul crushes someone above Infinite Zamasu in scope
Nah Infinite Zamasu is Angel tier tbh.
Top 5
I mean he literally became Trunks' entire timeline which contains the 12 universes and he was about to merge with the main one aswell. He's very underrated.
I think everyone recognizes his power, he’s definitely OP
@pandalumina: Zamasu merged with the timeline and was a literal 4D being that was spreading into others. Jiren has more AP but he cannot nuke a timeline and would not be able to overcome Zamasu's immortality. Zamasu didn't even have a physical body either. Jiren ecliping him in energy doesn't grant him the same hax Zamasu had. It was Zamasu's presense, his very existence that merged with the multiverse, not his ki
It would be a stalemate. He can’t put Zamasu down. Jiren is a brick
Right, but this has nothing to do with his immortality since they specifically state that it's his energy doing this.
Immortality does not infinitely increase your states to another level.
Jiren one ups this anyway by shaking the entire null realm casually just from walking.
A realm that could contain the might of GoD tiers clashing amongst themselves.
Shin also confirms along with others that his ki is entirely different than anyone prior...which would include Zamasu.
Clearly a completely different power than what Zamasu has shown
"It was Zamasu's presense, his very existence that merged with the multiverse, not his ki"
???????
@pandalumina: It wasn't Zamasu's Ki that merged with the cosmos it was his very being and he lacked a physical form becoming justice itself stated by Gowasu. His very will fused with the fabric of the Universe. Just because Zamasu still had Ki doesn't mean his Ki did it.
Jiren having more Ki than Zamasu doesn't grant him the hax Zamasu had or the dimensionality Zamasu had. Jiren is not a 4D being even if he has more Ki. Jiren's presence cannot grow in other timelines even with more power. Jiren cannot merge with the fabric of the multiverse. Jiren cannot time travel. Jiren does not exist on the metaphysical level. Jiren is not immortal. This is all hax or specific traits
What Zamasu did has no bearing on what Jiren can do even with Jiren possessing more battle power or energy. Goku is stronger than Zamasu too but he cannot pull off any of the feats Zamasu did because he doesn't have Zamasu's abilities nor is of a 4D existence. You need feats to suggest Jiren can do this stuff. He can’t just do everything infinite Zamasu can. Not everything is black and white
Jiren cannot beat Zamasu as he is an immortal 4D being and Jiren possess no form of 4D existence erasure. Please do tell how Jiren puts down a disembodied immortal that can fuse itself with entire timelines
@argomkii: Jiren has been literally stated to be transcending time by an angel and shown resistence to time manipulation via sheer power.
@lilgodperv: he resisted time hax. That doesn't grant him a 4D existence. It was his power that broke out the time cage but he is not a 4D being, existing on a 4D level. only being powerful enough to resist time manipulation to an extent. He has 4D power but If he was actually 4D Hits powers wouldn't have done shit. Goku resisted Hits time techniques too. Goku is stronger than Jiren. He still cannot time travel. He still cannot do anything that Infinite Zamasu did.
Hax is not raw power
Why do dragon ball fans have such a hard time understanding this
@pandalumina: It wasn't Zamasu's Ki that merged with the cosmos is was his very being and he lacked a physical form becoming justice itself stated by Gowasu. His very will fused with the fabric of the Universe. Jiren cannot do that.
I already disproved you on this with the Whis statement.
You're talking about the same Gowasu who specifically stated that his power expanded to no end after fusion. A statement I again already posted above. This was before his body was destroyed.
Jiren having more Ki than Zamasu doesn't grant him the hax Zamasu had or the dimensionality Zamasu had. Jiren is not a 4D being even if he has more Ki. Jiren's presence cannot grow in other timelines even with more power. Jiren cannot merge with the Universe. Jiren cannot time travel. Jiren does not exist on the metaphysical level. He didn't even have a body and he is immortal. Him merging into other timelines was his very will fusing with 4D space times. This is all hax
The hax directly comes from their power/energy as stated multiple times. We've seen characters transcend dimensions and time just from raw ki alone (Jiren, Goku, Gogeta, Broly...etc). I'm not sure where you're going with the whole "It was all hax!" angle.
His ki is binding to the future timeline and beyond into the past. We know this because Whis specifically states it's "a flow" of energy with Beerus stating that whatever just happened is effecting the present as well. You can't get any more direct than this really. Please tell me what exactly would they be feeling if his entire existence isn't made of ki?
What Zamasu did has no bearing on what Jiren can do even with Jiren possessing more battle power or energy. Goku is stronger than Zamasu too but he cannot pull off any of the feats Zamasu did because he doesn't have Zamasu's abilities nor is of a 4D existence.
They state that Zamasu's ki expanded to no end.
Shin states that Jiren is different than anyone they have EVER faced up to that point.
Whis states that Jiren has surpased GoD level while still being far from serious.
None of this was stated about Zamasu, so what are you basing this claim on exactly? This is the same Jiren that was stated to surpass time while suppressed by Vados and shook the null realm while barely trying.
The only reason Zamasu was even capable of staying alive while transcending is because his soul itself is immortal, but at the same time having an immortal soul doesn't give you infinitely expanding energy. If it did then Future Zamasu wouldn't have needed to fuse with Black Goku. Shin would instead have just stated regular Zamasu was beyond their comprehension, but he wasn’t and neither was his power.
@lilgodperv: he resisted time hax. That doesn't grant him a 4D existence. It was his power that broke out the time cage but he is not a 4D being, existing on a 4D level. only being powerful enough to resist time manipulation to an extent. He has 4D power but If he was actually 4D Hits powers wouldn't have done shit. Goku resisted Hits time techniques too. Goku is stronger than Jiren. He still cannot time travel. He still cannot do anything that Infinite Zamasu did.
Hax is not raw power
Why do dragon ball fans have such a hard time understanding this
Zamasu having a 4D existence is irrelevant to Jiren trancending him in power
Yes or no?
I already disproved you on this with the Whis statement.
The hax directly comes from their power/energy as stated multiple times.
We've seen characters transcend dimensions and time just from raw ki alone (Jiren, Goku, Gogeta, Broly...etc). I'm not sure where you're going with the whole "It was all hax!" angle.
They state that Zamasu's ki expanded to no end.
@pandalumina: Zamasu is immortal. Jiren cannot put him down even if his "power" transcends time. Jiren also has no feats of being able to nuke an entire timeline
Jiren's power transcending time just means he can resist time manipulation with sheer power
@argomkii: @pandalumina: You two are going off-topic.
Not that it matters since this is a bait thread and the OP has made several already in the past.
@pandalumina: Zamasu is immortal. Jiren cannot put him down even if his "power" transcends time. Jiren also has no feats of being able to nuke an entire timeline
Jiren's power transcending time just means he can resist time manipulation with sheer power
I mean the feats argument means very little, he doesn’t have feats for nuking a single universe let alone twelve but he scales way over it. It’s an especially unfair standard given the world of void is an endless expansion of nothing outside of all of creation which is where the one arc he appears in takes place.
For an in verse debate pure feats matter less than internal scaling and statements, plus depending on how you look at WoV feats that could be what you’re looking for right there
@thewatcherking: imo he doesn't scale over nuking a timeline when the only guy who did it was Zeno
Sure Jiren is stronger than Zamasu but Zamasu fusing the multiverse was due to his metaphysical existence after Trunks destroyed his physical body and since he couldn't die his very being wanted to be justice itself, and then after fusing with the 4D fabric of the multiverse he was able to jump timelines. Jiren can't do any of that, even if he is stronger than Zamasu. I mean Goku is stronger than Jiren but we're not going to say he can do that stuff right ? It's just a typical hax vs power debate.
Jiren is stronger, but he cannot put Zamasu down and the opposite can be said about Zamasu not being able to put down Jiren due to not having enough AP.
"You disproved nothing"
Literally posted Whis disproving you twice but go on ^_^
Haven't seen a single rebuttal to it yet actually
"Whis feeling Zamasu's energy is a false equivalence because Zamasu was already showed trying to fuse with their timeline."
You...have no idea what a false equivalence is do you?
Whis states this only after he feels his ki effecting the present. Beerus confirms this by stating it is now effecting the present. When exactly did he fuse with the present?
Effecting =/= Already Fused
This is not a false equivalence.
"Kid Trunks, Kid Mai, etc, they all physically saw Zamasu tear a hole in their timeline before Whis mentioned this."
Effecting =/= Already Fused
Irrelevant
"Zamasu traveled backwards in time and was attempting to merge with their timespace and Whis felt his energy."
Ok, so you agree that Whis felt his energy merging with space time, yes?
You're very close to contradicting yourself
Zamazu also did not travel "back" in time either. He traveled to a completely different timeline. Anyone who has seen the show knows this.
Zamasu merging with spacetime was not stated at all to come from his immortality. You're now diving into headcanon full splash. Tell me...what exactly is his willpower made of and why did Whis state that he felt his energy specifically? Also how is this a No Limits Fallacy? You're just throwing out words you don't understand at this point. LOL
I never claimed this, and it literally has no relevance on me saying Jiren transcends Zamasu in power. You're also presenting ared herring ^_^
Not sure where you're getting your information from, but you don't need to time travel in a specific way to transcend time or "time travel like Whis". You're making up rules that don't exist. Anyone capable of transcending time through some means (means in which time manipulation has no effect on them) has 4D+ power. Unless you're trying to argue that Hit can't manipulate time in some form. Even though both Whis and Vados confirm it. Whether he uses it in a way that you want to is irrelevant. Time is time
You're also spouting a bunch of straw man arguments. No one has said any of those characters are 4D and being a 4D being has no equivalence to a character trancending them in raw power.
Vegito was stronger and faster than Zamasu, so I'm not sure what you tried to prove there. Shin and Gowasu were impressed with him and concluded that his power would be enough to take him. More props to Vegito and the statement applies to him too I guess.
You're wanking his immortality really hard here. Give anyone else the ability to live without about a body on his level and they'd legit replicate the feat. His power/energy specifically is what is expanding and overflowing past time space. Literally stated.
Again, Jiren shook an entire realm with no end
Has power surpassing a Zamasu who was stated to have no end and was stated to have power above him. These are all facts you don't don't seem to get for some reason.
Btw, this:
"but actually let me show you what your argument is turning out to be. Vegito is stronger than Zamasu therfor Vegito can fuse with the fabric of the multiverse and absorb other timelines in the past right ?"
Is another strawman, since this wasn't my argument to begin with or connects at all with what I said
Zamasu became a 4D being, but Jiren still transcends him in power
You also don't need to have immortality to become a 4D being. (Killing someone like Future Zamasu post wish would not turn him into one since he didn't gain infinity rising power until fusing with Black).
That's my argument
"My logic" Even though an experienced elder Kaioshin states this along with Zamasu's power being beyond their comprehensive AFTER they fuse, but sure. This is just "My logic"
You're also spouting another straw man here
Please stop ^_^
@pandalumina: Zamasu is immortal. Jiren cannot put him down even if his "power" transcends time. Jiren also has no feats of being able to nuke an entire timeline
Jiren's power transcending time just means he can resist time manipulation with sheer power
This didn't answer my question
Zamasu being 4D and immortal has no relevance on Jiren transcending him in ki
Zeno kind of proves that by killing him while not being 4D himself
Whether Jiren can put him down or not is an entirely different topic
@takenstew22: i guess that was my last reply 😊
OT: Jiren no sells
Yeah....this is just facts
@argomkii: I wasn’t arguing one way or another and I’m totally fine with the idea that Jiren can’t kill him with the fact that the super dragon balls granted Zamasu immortality however the wish was that he doesn’t die, and even if his being no longer had a physical form being able to take over timelines(plural) should count for more than his immortality.
I personally think if his energy was able to take over that much of reality and we have the saiyans shielding his attacks it should count for something. Though I can see your angle I also can’t see Zamasu just endlessly fusing with an universes in all timelines and it meaning absolutely nothing for his sheer power(as in he should gain power when doing this if nothing else).
@chris2kzombieki: Fair point.
@pandalumina: Question did the Manga just disappear? Like..I haven't heard of any new chapters.
@chris2kzombieki: chapters release monthly sadly 😞
drafts release on the 15th of every month and then the chapter 5 days later
the last chapter was on Dec 20th
@pandalumina: This is why I like OPM. Its more constant with its releases....or it was....
Whis states this only after he feels his ki effecting the present. Beerus confirms this by stating it is now effecting the present. When exactly did he fuse with the present?
Ok, so you agree that Whis felt his energy merging with space time, yes?
Zamazu also did not travel "back" in time either. He traveled to a completely different timeline. Anyone who has seen the show knows this.
Zamasu merging with spacetime was not stated at all to come from his immortality. You're now diving into headcanon full splash. Tell me...what exactly is his willpower made of and why did Whis state that he felt his energy specifically? Also how is this a No Limits Fallacy? You're just throwing out words you don't understand at this point. LOL
Not sure where you're getting your information from, but you don't need to time travel in a specific way to transcend time or "time travel like Whis". You're making up rules that don't exist. Anyone capable of transcending time through some means (means in which time manipulation has no effect on them) has 4D+ power. Unless you're trying to argue that Hit can't manipulate time in some form. Even though both Whis and Vados confirm it. Whether he uses it in a way that you want to is irrelevant. Time is time
You're wanking his immortality really hard here. Give anyone else the ability to live without about a body on his level and they'd legit replicate the feat. His power/energy specifically is what is expanding and overflowing past time space. Literally stated.
Yeah, but he's not at all fused with the present timeline
That's the point
The only thing specifically mentioned by Whis was his flowing energy
Saying this was all due to just "hax" is nonsensical since any hax he would perform here would be due to his ki (transcending spacetime)
Immortality just makes him unkillable while doing it
So why didn't Whis say that his immortality is transcending spacetime in this sense then? His energy overflowing should have no bearing on being immortal right?
Either way you're only proving my point by admitting Whis only said this when he tries to breach timelines. Him not mentioning it before this is irrelevant since he's still immortal clearly.
You were saying he went back in time as if he time traveled in the same time line. Traveling to the past version of an entirely different multiverse is not in any way the same. He was also mostly able to do this because the connection between them was still there (the time machine literally pops in front of the exact spot his face was when he's killed)
Either way, I'm not seeing what your point is with this
That's cool and all, but Zamasu wasn't considered 4D until he used his energy to become the universe and beyond (he needed to actively "try" to do that according to Gowasu).
His immortality makes him unkillable while doing that sure, but that alone is not what led him to cross time spaces.
The point with Moro doesn't work since he doesn't keep living after losing his body. His soul should be in the Afterlife as we speak. Zamasu's soul is immortal, thus he can live and spread his energy. I don't think I need to tell you that ki and soul are synonymous right?
Wasn't my argument, so this is irrelevant
No one is saying that Jiren can replicate Zamasu turning into a 4D being. You keep saying this even though it has no relevance to my point of Jiren's power transcending Zamasu's or Zamasu's ki energy being the main cause of the space time crossing
Again, this is a strawman
Read what you're saying then read what I'm saying
You're also going into headcanon about the time ring, but that again is another topic for another time
@pandalumina: This is going nowhere
Everyone and their mother knows Jiren is stronger. The debate was that Jiren despite being stronger can't replicate the feats that Zamasu did nor would be able to put him down due to his Immortality and multi temporal presence
Like i said before it's a stalemate
@pandalumina: This is why I like OPM. Its more constant with its releases....or it was....
what happened with OPM?
@pandalumina: This is going nowhere
Everyone and their mother knows Jiren is stronger. The debate was that Jiren despite being stronger can't replicate the feats that Zamasu did nor would be be able to put him down due to his Immortality and multi temporal presence
Like i said before it's a stalemate
That wasn't even the debate tho, so I don't understand what you mean.
@pandalumina: It's been a while since the last chapter. I wasn't made aware fo any break either.
Yes it was
@pandalumina: Jiren wouldn't have beaten Infinite Zamasu. People take the stronger statement to heart but thats just raw power as in AP wise. Zamasu at that point became a true 4th Dimensional being, had no physical form and was immortal
@pandalumina: @argomkii: What the point in debating about infinite zamaus power or immortality when this thread has nothing to do with him? That going way off topic.
@lordragoon: you're right forget it. It was a stupid topic anyway
@argomkii: I think you assumed I was referring to Zamasu being a 4D being when I said "in scope"
I was specifically referring to his ki since ki and soul are synonymous in DB
Jiren's ki is far denser and greater than Infinite Zamasu's
That was the point originally
(Had to go back and re-read to figure out how we got here)
@pandalumina: i didn't. People generslly just think Jiren can replicate Infinite Zamasu's Multiversal timeline merging feats when he can't, even though Jiren is way stronger.
I thought thats what you meant by the scope of Jirens power being greater
He also can't beat Zamasu
anywayz...
I think i humored this bait thread enough lol
@pandalumina: It's been a while since the last chapter. I wasn't made aware fo any break either.
i wonder why
anywayz...
I think i humored this bait thread enough lol
@pandalumina: It's been a while since the last chapter. I wasn't made aware fo any break either.
i wonder why
TBF they deserve a longer break then they got. Murata's art but many manga to shame lets be real. Man's knows wtf he's doing.
I don't equalize ki with Clorox's spiritural energy. If you do equalize them, then Jiren feels nothing.
https://showbox.bio/https://jfi.uno/jiofilocalhtmlhttps://adminlogin.co/tplinklogin/
tl;dr people bring up irrelevant points, wank Dragon Ball, or post the obvious answer...
Jiren dies because he has no resistance as a Dragon Ball character. Soul Crush has nothing to do with physical might. It is entirely spiritual. Ki doesn't even function like reiatsu so equalizing makes no sense.
tl;dr people bring up irrelevant points, wank Dragon Ball, or post the obvious answer...
Jiren dies because he has no resistance as a Dragon Ball character. Soul Crush has nothing to do with physical might. It is entirely spiritual. Ki doesn't even function like reiatsu so equalizing makes no sense.
Ki is literally everything in DB including spiritual energy lol. Not DB fans fault people are coping and don't know how the verse works.
tl;dr people bring up irrelevant points, wank Dragon Ball, or post the obvious answer...
Jiren dies because he has no resistance as a Dragon Ball character. Soul Crush has nothing to do with physical might. It is entirely spiritual. Ki doesn't even function like reiatsu so equalizing makes no sense.
Ki is literally everything in DB including spiritual energy lol. Not DB fans fault people are coping and don't know how the verse works.
^^^
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