Agility Battle

Who do you think is the best acrobat in DC or Marvel? Is it Spiderman? Or Perhaps Beast? Maybe even Captain America?

Post your best scans/pics of a character showing off there agility, and lets find out.

Deathstroke

Forget scans(I've posted that one btw), I'm backing Spider-Man

well the obvious choice of DC is Nightwing

I'll post a image as soon as the galleries are back to normal

Buckshot says:

"Forget scans(I've posted that one btw), I'm backing Spider-Man"

I would use Spiderman as the measuring stick. He has Super Human agility, but so do several other characters, what sets him apart? Are there different levels of Super Human?

oh I think I read wrong

did you mean the most agile character counting both DC and Marvel?

or just separate

DC-Nightwing

Marvel-Spiderman

Both-Spiderman

I'm really just looking for some cool scans of characters showing off there agility.

Gambit

Gambler says:

"I'm really just looking for some cool scans of characters showing off there agility.**Gambit**"

wow didn't know that Gambit was so agile

Taskmaster

Gambler says:

"Buckshot says:

"Forget scans(I've posted that one btw), I'm backing Spider-Man"

I would use Spiderman as the measuring stick. He has Super Human agility, but so do several other characters, what sets him apart? Are there different levels of Super Human?"

What sets him apart is that he uses his agility in just about every thing he does and he displays it much more than anyone else I can think of. It's not just another superhuman attribute he has, it's just as integral to his character as his webs or his spider-sense.

Of all the people Taskmaster uses (for agility), Spider-Man shows up the most. Yeah, DD is in the picture you have above, but he's not on Spider-Man's level of agility.

"WITHOUT PEER when it comes to agility."

Spidey moves his body in a manner that “no other human being can possibly duplicate”.

Spider-Man states that he is "practically without peer when it comes to leaping, swinging, tumbling, somersaulting, and any other acrobatic act".

Even underwater:

Gambler says:

"**Taskmaster**"

I have that issue

nightwing can do this with an arm broken (don't know if it counts)

http://pics.livejournal.com/pyrobaby/pic/0008ehrg

Those are cool scans Buck. But with thee exception of the fourth one down (cause no one else can stick to walls) there's nothing there that your average Robin couldn't perform. There just performed at a higher rate of speed, in fact the first scan looks just like what Deathstroke is doing in the scan I posted.

The only thing (in my book) that gives Spiderman an edge, is his webbing and ability to stick to things.

One aspect of agility is the speed at which you can position and reposition the body, so of course him doing it at a faster rate is something that puts him above "your average Robin" in the area of agility. The fact that it's "superhuman agility" in the first place should tell you that no Robin could do it. You're free to differ in opinion though. Agility can't be portrayed as exactly as something like strength, so with just about any picture you could say "Well so-and-so can do the same thing" (though I would hope that my statement before would persuade you not to).

Buckshot says:

"One aspect of agility is the speed at which you can position and reposition the body, so of course him doing it at a faster rate is something that puts him above "your average Robin" in the area of agility. The fact that it's "superhuman agility" in the first place should tell you that no Robin could do it. You're free to differ in opinion though. Agility can't be portrayed as exactly as something like strength, so with just about any picture you could say "Well so-and-so can do the same thing" (though I would hope that my statement before would persuade you not to)."

Thats the problem with comics, yes in the real world speed is directly connected to how fast you can reposition your body. But in comics average everday humans pull off moves they shouldn't be able to do. I didn't say Robin could perform Super Human feats of agility, I said he could do the moves in the scans you posted. You can see that from the scans Nightwing posted, they look almost identical. This kind of goes back to the issue of stats, with Super Human agility, Spiderman should be shown pulling off moves that CLEARLY no normal human has. Instead of flipping off a building and only doing one complete rotation (like in the scans) he should be rotating several times (using his Super Human agility) to twist and flip his body in a manner no one else can duplicate. The Fact that Taskmaster, who has NO Super Human speed or agility can still perform the moves of Spiderman kinda proves that, at least in comics, speed has little to do with what moves you can and cant perform.

Well, this looks interesting...

Gambler says:

"Buckshot says:

"One aspect of agility is the speed at which you can position and reposition the body, so of course him doing it at a faster rate is something that puts him above "your average Robin" in the area of agility. The fact that it's "superhuman agility" in the first place should tell you that no Robin could do it. You're free to differ in opinion though. Agility can't be portrayed as exactly as something like strength, so with just about any picture you could say "Well so-and-so can do the same thing" (though I would hope that my statement before would persuade you not to)."

Thats the problem with comics, yes in the real world speed is directly connected to how fast you can reposition your body. But in comics average everday humans pull off moves they shouldn't be able to do. I didn't say Robin could perform Super Human feats of agility, I said he could do the moves in the scans you posted. You can see that from the scans Nightwing posted, they look almost identical. This kind of goes back to the issue of stats, with Super Human agility, Spiderman should be shown pulling off moves that CLEARLY no normal human has. Instead of flipping off a building and only doing one complete rotation (like in the scans) he should be rotating several times (using his Super Human agility) to twist and flip his body in a manner no one else can duplicate. The Fact that Taskmaster, who has NO Super Human speed or agility can still perform the moves of Spiderman kinda proves that, at least in comics, speed has little to do with what moves you can and cant perform.

"

I agree, spiderman should be drawn so that he looks more agile than anyone else

I saw something like that on civil war. don't have the scan tough

Gambler says:

"Thats the problem with comics, yes in the **real world** speed is directly connected to how fast you can reposition your body. But in comics average everday humans pull off moves they shouldn't be able to do. I didn't say Robin could perform Super Human feats of agility, I said he could do the moves in the scans you posted. You can see that from the scans Nightwing posted, they look almost identical. This kind of goes back to the issue of stats, with Super Human agility, Spiderman should be shown pulling off moves that CLEARLY no normal human has. Instead of flipping off a building and only doing one complete rotation (like in the scans) he should be rotating several times (using his Super Human agility) to twist and flip his body in a manner no one else can duplicate. The Fact that Taskmaster, who has **NO** Super Human speed or agility can still perform the moves of Spiderman kinda proves that, at least in comics, speed has little to do with what moves you can and cant perform."

I don't think you're entirely getting my point. If two people can do the same exact move, the one who can do it faster is more agile. So if a human (Robin) can do the same thing Spider-Man can, but nowhere near as fast, then Spider-Man is more agile. Superhumanly so. The complexity of the moves is important, but so is how fast they can be performed. If it's all in positioning, then Plastic Man is the most agile guy around. If it's all speed, then it's Flash (thinking about it, it might very well be Flash, but I doubt that's what you were talking about). And with Taskmaster, he can do what superhumans can do, but not to the same extent that they can. He can perform the same actions Spider-Man can, but not as quickly (overall or from motion to motion) as Spidey can, so he's not as agile. And like I said before, with comics you can pretty much say any guy can do the same thing another guy can when talking about agility, so I'm sticking with the guy Marvel presents as the king of agility (through narrative like what I posted and quoted above, in repeated displays of agility, or even non-comic media).

I see what your saying now. (again I'm not arguing that Spiderman isn't the most agile) I'm saying that they don't do his agility justice, that in the scans you posted his moves don't look anymore impressive then Nightwings, a normal human acrobat. I'm trying to find those pics you posted of Captain America, cause they also show him performing a series of handsprings and multiple flips. If Spiderman is the poster child for agility they sure don't do a good job of separating him from the pack.

I don't agree with you on the point of speed. If two characters can perform the same move, but one can do it faster, that doesn't mean there more agile, it means there faster. Was there form as nice? Did they get the same extension as the slower character? Look at the laser pic for Gambit, look at the form and extension, then look at the laser pic for Spiderman, obviously Spiderman was faster, but his form is no were near as crisp as Gambits. (Again, I'm not saying Gambit is more agile. I'm using that as my example for thee above point)

Wouldn't what Plastic Man and Reed Richards do, be considered more on the level of a contursionist?

Speed, Coordination, Reflexes, Balance, Form, Extension and Strength are the components that make up Agility. The Flash is obviously fast, but that doesn't make him agile.

Gambler says:

"I see what your saying now. (again I'm not arguing that Spiderman isn't the most agile) I'm saying that they don't do his agility justice, that in the scans you posted his moves don't look anymore impressive then Nightwings, a normal human acrobat. I'm trying to find those pics you posted of Captain America, cause they also show him performing a series of handsprings and multiple flips. If Spiderman is the poster child for agility they sure don't do a good job of separating him from the pack. I don't agree with you on the point of speed. If two characters can perform the same move, but one can do it faster, that doesn't mean there more agile, it means there faster. Was there form as nice? Did they get the same extension as the slower character? Look at the laser pic for Gambit, look at the form and extension, then look at the laser pic for Spiderman, obviously Spiderman was faster, but his form is no were near as crisp as Gambits. (Again, I'm not saying Gambit is more agile. I'm using that as my example for thee above point) Wouldn't what Plastic Man and Reed Richards do, be considered more on the level of a contursionist? Speed, Coordination, Reflexes, Balance, Form, Extension and Strength are the components that make up Agility. The Flash is obviously fast, but that doesn't make him agile."

They show his agility enough for me to support him and for him to be one of the first characters in everyone's head when agility or acrobatics is mentioned. Maybe I think it's enough because I don't know exactly how they would show his agility more. How would you go about playing up his agility? If you look at the list of what makes up agility that you wrote and then look at the third picture I posted you'll see that the only things that weren't mentioned specifically were form and extension, things you can see in the picture.

You don't need to agree with me on the speed thing. It's in the definition (I've looked at two definitions and seen speed in both.) Your points about form and extension don't mean much. As I said, if they do the same thing but one does it faster, the faster one is more agile. And of course the form is different in the pictures, they're two separate and totally unrelated pictures. You shouldn't expect to see Taskmaster-like mirroring in two pictures with no connection at all.

Folding themselves up would be like a contortionist, but moving from spot to spot in bizarre physical shapes without losing balance, or quickly moving parts of themselves out of the way of bullets while staying upright would be easy for them. Flash fits every definition of agility, nimbleness, dexterity, etc. He may not be acrobatic, but he's very agile.

They show his agility enough for me to support him and for him to be one of the first characters in everyone's head when agility or acrobatics is mentioned.

Again, your making it seem as if I said Spiderman isn't agile. I'll repeat myself. In the scans you posted, they don't show Spiderman (Super Human Agility) doing anything that Nightwing (Normal Human) cant, or isn't doing in the scans.

How would I show Spiderman to have more agility? Just like I've been saying, were normal characters are doing one flip, have him do 4 or 5. Don't have him twist and turn like every other acrobat in comics, have him doing some crazy Matrix type $#@! :P

Again, just performing the same move as another character but faster, doesn't make you more agile. What if one character performs the move faster, but the other does it with more coordination? What if a character performs the same move with more dexterity, but the other was faster? Maybe I'm using the wrong words. You can perform the same move slower and still do it more acrobatically then someone who does it faster.

My points about form and extension don't mean much? There key parts of the foundation that make up agility (in comics) Most characters can dodge bullets, its how there drawn dodging the bullets that the reader equates with agility, not how fast they did it.

I don't hold much stock in the word bubbles on the scans, cause every acrobatic character has scans describing there feats with exaggerated word play.

Gymnast aren't judged on speed, there judged on form, style, grace and extension, anyone who's ever taken gymnastics will tell you that. Spiderman has all these, I never said he didn't. There are alot of characters that come to mind when one mentions agility, but those with Super Human agility (again I repeat myself) should be shown performing moves that the normal human characters shouldn't even come close to doing.

Saw in the best debators whatever thread that this was mentioned. Don't know why I didn't come back to it when it was current since I had something already written (I'm just copying and pasting from the old Word Doc now).

Gambler says:

"Again, your making it seem as if I said Spiderman isn't agile. I'll repeat myself. In the scans you posted, they don't show Spiderman (Super Human Agility) doing anything that Nightwing (Normal Human) cant, or isn't doing in the scans. "

Two posts previous I had ended by saying that Marvel presents him as the example of agility. When you responded and said “If Spiderman is the poster child for agility they sure don't do a good job of separating him from the pack.” I thought the “they “ you were talking about was Marvel, not the scans, which is why when I said “They” in the sentence you quoted, I was talking about Marvel. My mistake.

Gambler says:

"How would I show Spiderman to have more agility? Just like I've been saying, were normal characters are doing one flip, have him do 4 or 5. Don't have him twist and turn like every other acrobat in comics, have him doing some crazy Matrix type $#@! :P "

“Matrix type $#@!” What do they do in the matrix aside from dodge bullets and kung fu? I’m trying to understand what you’re thinking because more flips doesn’t seem like much to me. Spider-Man could do more flips than say gambit simply because he jumps higher and gets more air time. (He could also do it with the same about of airtime too.) They don’t depict that, and I think that’s what your saying is the problem, but he can do it. I think you’re talking more about acrobatics than anything else. Doing a flip doesn’t make you more agile.

This looks matrix-y to me, dodging bullets at close range.

So does Spider-man jumping through a van that’s being hurled at him and coming out the other side with the driver before it hits a wall.

Not just dodging and getting out of the way, but dodging and staying in the general area of fire purposely. Who else does that? He’s totally awesome!

This could be matrix-y, in fact they did it in the matrix, getting out of the way of a moving train that’s only feet away, and he did it from the position he fell in (on his side/back).

Matrix type $#@!?

This one?I think you’d have to be pretty dang agile to slide under a car moving at 90mph (or faster) and hang on instead of getting run over.

Is changing position in midair Matrix-y?

I bet no one else has a showing of agility like this. People dodge bullets all the time, but do they dodge the fastest land mammals on the planet? Do they dodge…CHEETAHS!?!

Gambler says:

"Again, just performing the same move as another character but faster, doesn't make you more agile. What if one character performs the move faster, but the other does it with more coordination? What if a character performs the same move with more dexterity, but the other was faster? Maybe I'm using the wrong words. You can perform the same move slower and still do it more acrobatically then someone who does it faster.My points about form and extension don't mean much? There key parts of the foundation that make up agility (in comics) Most characters can dodge bullets, its how there drawn dodging the bullets that the reader equates with agility, not how fast they did it. "

Again, you’re not getting it. I’m saying if they both do it the same, as in same “coordination, dexterity, form, extension, etc” and one does it faster, that one’s more agile. I’ve said “the same” in just about every post but you keep adding “what if one does it with more whatever” when that makes it no longer “the same”. I don’t think the point matters anymore because you’ve started talking about something else, but if two people are doing the same move and one does it faster, the faster one is more agile. I'd point out that one way of showing he has more agility that you suggested would be to have him do multiple flips where another character would only do one. To do say 5 flips in the same situation someone else would do one would mean he needs to do the flips faster, so that kinda contradicts your statement that "performing the same move as another character but faster, doesn't make you more agile".

For form, extension, coordination and the other things you listed, just because each thing is not displayed in every picture doesn’t mean it’s not there. For one of your pictures of Gambit he’s balanced on one hand. One of Spider-Man’s has him balanced on one finger on a pole shaking (I’m assuming) in the wind with his body fully extended. He’s also said to be able to balance in any position.

Gambler says:

"I don't hold much stock in the word bubbles on the scans, cause every acrobatic character has scans describing there feats with exaggerated word play. "

Does every character have narration saying they’re the absolute best when it comes to agility? And is that supported by their powers or physical attributes (reflexes 40 times faster than a human, more elastic tendons and connective tissues, the ability to maintain perfect balance on any surface, etc)? If everyone said the same thing or if the claims couldn’t be supported I’d be more likely to agree that they might not be true, but that’s not the case.

Gambler says:

"Gymnast aren't judged on speed, there judged on form, style, grace and extension, anyone who's ever taken gymnastics will tell you that. Spiderman has all these, I never said he didn't. There are alot of characters that come to mind when one mentions agility, but those with Super Human agility (again I repeat myself) should be shown performing moves that the normal human characters shouldn't even come close to doing. "

Agility: the quality or state of being agile : nimbleness, dexterity "played with increasing agility"

Agile: marked by ready ability to move with quick easy grace "an agile dancer"

Agility: The ability to change body position rapidly and accurately without losing balance. It is important in sports and activities in which opponents or obstacles have to be avoided (e.g. slalom events). It is a basic component of physical fitness. Its exact nature has not been determined, but it does depend on muscular power, reaction time, coordination, and dynamic flexibility.

Agility: component of physical fitness that describes changing the body's direction with speed and precision.

Dexterity: readiness and grace in physical activity; especially : skill and ease in using the hands "manual dexterity"

Nimble: quick and light in motion : agile "nimble fingers"

Nowhere in any of these definitions does it say form or extension. It says grace, which I would say is coordination, not flailing around like an idiot, but nothing about form, like there’s a correct form to do it. Gymnasts may have to do things a certain way to get scores, but that's in a sport where you have to perform to set expectations. Spider-Man doesn’t have to be as purposeful in all of his motions for him to be considered agile because it's natural to him and he uses what works for his body. (Here I’m thinking of something like Gambit going through the lasers. He’s taking his time so he does it right and you can see all kinds of gymnastics stuff in it. It takes some effort and he does it very well.) His movements don’t look quite like Gambit’s all the time because he wasn’t trained, he just does what comes naturally, but that doesn’t make him less agile. It may mean he doesn't look as nice sometimes, but that doesn't mean anything.

Like I said before, it’s something harder to measure than speed or strength, but I think these things would measure the level of someone’s agility, and they’re supported by the above definitions:

Speed at which maneuvers are performed

Balance (or rather the ability to maintain balance)

Grace (this one’s harder because first of all it’s subjective, but also because it could be seen as an extension of balance. One definition has “ease and suppleness of movement”. This would also be where most of what you’re talking about comes in.)

I do agree that it may not be clearly, undeniably, shown that Spider-Man is more agile than anyone else, but I think that's because it would be hard to do (much harder than something like strength where you can draw the person lifting something bigger or speed where they can be clocked or shown running faster than someone else) especially if the artist doesn't purpose to do that ahead of time and is not thinking of showing him to be more agile as someone else and just feels like showing that he is agile in general. But nevertheless, that doesn't mean it's not true that he is more agile. As I've said, and you've agreed with, Marvel has pretty much declared him king of agility through narrative like what I posted and quoted, in repeated displays of agility (probably more than any other character), and even non-comic media.

Post Edited:2008-04-30 18:39:02

Shang-Chi

Well thats cool.Just putting up a scan I found.

Akira Overdrive says:

"***Shang-Chi***"

Nothing Cassandra Cain hasn't done before.

And...

Buckshot says:

"People dodge bullets all the time, but do they dodge the fastest land mammals on the planet? Do they dodge…CHEETAHS!?!"

sigh

• Buckshot-10,000

• Gambler-0

I'm gonna try to prove that Gambit does indeed have Superhuman Agility. These aren't the only scans. Just the ones I'm starting with.

Gambler says:

"*sigh* * Buckshot-10,000 * Gambler-0 "

that's why i said you never beat him...

;)

I hate you :P

lol

Spidey

Spider-Man and this is why:

Spidey wins this.

"Spider-Man and this is why:

  

"

Noh-Varr, He's triple jointed

Nightwing is sicc with it.


But Noh-Var rand Spidey is thee best.

Spider-man easily. He has impressive agility even under pain and with a broken arm.

Its more about posting scans that help support your pic. We can all say Spiderman, but I wanna see scans that prove it as well.

I'm pretty much stating my opinion and can't scan anything because my new printer don't have a scaner and I'm trying to convince my step dad to buy me a new (Also it's not working right) Lol.

"Spider-Man and this is why:

  

"

Spider-Man fighting, avoiding attacks, and saving people all while in the air

Love that issue for some reason.... LOL nice scans.

Saw that the first time u posted it......39 minutes ago :P

"

Taskmaster

"

SNIFF IT!

lol im out cya

"Gambler said:

"

Taskmaster

"

Might aswell say the same gambler ;)"