5 worst Geoff Jones retcons you don't know

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waezi2

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Edited By waezi2

Look, I like Geoff Jones. I do.

He had a pretty good run on the Flash, wrote the awesome JSA series, AND he is the creator of Stargirl.

But he also did a lot of dumb retcons and changes characters a lot to suit his stories. Wonder Woman is probably one of the characters who got screwed over the most by GJ.

Here are five times Johns thought he knew better than other writers and changed stuff they had worked hard on making.

Jesse Quick is a work-o-holic.

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There are a ton of speedsters in the DCU, and surprisingly many of them are names Flash:P

But there are also more unique speedsters, like Jesse Quick, daughter of Johnny Quick.

Jesse was not just a superhero, she was also a businesswoman. She dedicated her life to being a hero and to her company. She is one of my favorite heroes, and I think one of the more interesting traits about her is that she made the choice of not trying to look for a romantic relationship, that she didn't feel like committing to one.

... So Geoff Johns decided that it meant she was addicted to her work, that she needed to be knocked down a peg, have her powers robbed from her, reduced to caretaker of the JSA HQ and become Hourman's girlfriend.

... Nice.

Jesse eventually got her speed powers back, after she came to the revelation that she lost them because she deep down knew she was unworthy of them. But after marrying Hourman who fixed her personality, she was finally ready to be a speedster again.

What a load of crab.

Maxwell Lord sabotaged the Justice League.

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"Countdown to Infinite Crisis" is a great read about Blue Beetle who is trying to uncover what could be a big conspiracy against all superheroes. Unfortunately, as the title implies, Infinite Crisis is just around the corner, chaos is everywhere, and all the superheroes are too busy giving a damn about what Ted is investigating.

But Ted is right. Someone IS planning something big that will hurt all the superheroes. The mastermind? Maxwell Lord, former manager of the Justice League.

So... here's the thing.

In "Countdown to Infinite Crisis", Max says that he plans on saving the world from the Justice League, give Earth back to humanity, a very Lex Luthor ish deal. And he also claims that he has always hated superhumans and that he purposely sabotaged the League when he was its manager.

Yeah... no. Just no.

Look, Max is a con-man, a cheap car salesman, a prick. But he is essentially a good guy. Not GREAT, but good. He sincerely wanted to do good, like managing the Justice League he had formed after it had suffered a devastating blow that ended it. Heck, Martian Manhunter scanned his mind when he was in a coma to see if there was anything in him that even looked like evil intent... and there was none.

So Max being an evil dick who sabotaged the League from the inside makes no sense.

Judd Winick later tried to fix it by still letting Max be a villain, but retconed the retcon so that Max started to resent super people after Coast City had been destroyed by Hal Jordan. That it was THAT specific incident that made him slowly grow to resent superpower people.

Hal Jordan as Spectre is bloodthirsty.

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So, we all know that Hal went nuts, became Parallex, killed all the Green Lanterns and tried to reset the universe so he could recreate it in his image.

Then he died saving the world and was selected to be the host of the Spectre.

The Spectre is normally an anti-hero who murders criminals in rather brutal and creative ways. But Hal being a superhero was not exactly comfortable about that, so he decided to turn the Spirit of Vengence into the Spirit of Redemption instead, helping sinners find piece with themselves. And when he didn't do that, Halo also fought giant entities that the mortal mind can barely comprehend.

Hal's adventures can be read in the 27 issue long series written by J. M. DeMatteis. Try and look it up, it's good stuff. One of the best parts of the series is how Hal becomes the caretaker of his niece Helen after her parents die in a car accident and Hel is the only member of the family left who is not dead.

... Well, he IS dead, but not dead-dead.

But then Johns began to let Spectre be in JSA and make it clear that he was losing control and shit. Hal then returned to life and became Green Lantern because Parallax made him give in to violence as the Spectre.

And Helen? What happened to her?

We will never know since John apparently forgot about her when he rewrote Spectre Hal completely.

Barry's dad got framed for the murder of his wife.

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By now, everyone knows the origin story where Barry's mom got killed by Zoom who framed Barry's dad, all to hurt his most hated enemy. Wanting to clear his father's name was what motivated Barry to become a police scientist.

That... was an origin story Johns made up to justify Flashpoint where Barry resets the DCU.

Before that, Barry's mom and dad lived normal and relatively happy lives. Barry became a police scientist because he wanted to fight crime like his idol, the flash from World War II.

What really annoys me is that Johns once wrote a story about Top taking Barry father and MOTHER hostage. And his mom was very much alive, and his dad not in jail.

It irritates me that Johns a) retconned made an unnecessary dead parent for Barry, b) that he retconed a continuity he used himself since that just seems sloppy, and c) that it was done to give Barry a reason to timetravel.

Black Hand has an interest in corpses that is just plain wrong.

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So... Johns wanted to make a new take on this old Green Lantern villain, one that would make him a bit more edgy.

And boy oh boy, did he make him edgy. In a way he shouldn't be!

Why would he even do that?! This is the main DC continuity, not The Boys!

And if you don't know what I'm talking about, then don't google it. Seriously!

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@waezi2 said:

Also, since Comicvine is kinda messy atm, would any of you guys like to join a small Discord group I'm setting up where we can talk comics and stuff?

I haven't been paying attention. What's messy about CV at the moment?

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mrmonster

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My biggest issue with Nora Allen's death and Flashpoint is that it's a contradiction. Apparently Zoom was able to go back and kill Nora and cause no problems, but Barry going back to undo what he did caused a parallel world and an apocalypse? If going back and changing things causes so much bad stuff in the future, why didn't Zoom cause that by murdering Barry's mom in the first place?

Is this explained somewhere in continuity that I just haven't read?

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amazing_webhead

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i only knew the last two (well, technically i knew the first one, but only because YOU told me about it)

i mean if you have a discord then sure, i'll join

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My biggest issue with Nora Allen's death and Flashpoint is that it's a contradiction. Apparently Zoom was able to go back and kill Nora and cause no problems, but Barry going back to undo what he did caused a parallel world and an apocalypse? If going back and changing things causes so much bad stuff in the future, why didn't Zoom cause that by murdering Barry's mom in the first place?

Is this explained somewhere in continuity that I just haven't read?

The reason is that Barry broke the the time barrier, creating a "time boom" which altered other events not even directly related to the murder of Barry's mother to change everything and create this new timeline.

And yeah, that is a load of BS. Professor Zoom has time traveled a lot, not just to ruin Barry's life, but also to change his own, like killing his brother before he was born, killing his parents, killing the professor who became head of the Flash Museum instead of him AND mentally crippled a woman who didn't love him.

It might be that Barry traveling back in time was a time-travel too many, the straw that broke the camel's back so to say.

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mrmonster

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@waezi2 said:
@mrmonster said:

My biggest issue with Nora Allen's death and Flashpoint is that it's a contradiction. Apparently Zoom was able to go back and kill Nora and cause no problems, but Barry going back to undo what he did caused a parallel world and an apocalypse? If going back and changing things causes so much bad stuff in the future, why didn't Zoom cause that by murdering Barry's mom in the first place?

Is this explained somewhere in continuity that I just haven't read?

The reason is that Barry broke the the time barrier, creating a "time boom" which altered other events not even directly related to the murder of Barry's mother to change everything and create this new timeline.

And yeah, that is a load of BS. Professor Zoom has time traveled a lot, not just to ruin Barry's life, but also to change his own, like killing his brother before he was born, killing his parents, killing the professor who became head of the Flash Museum instead of him AND mentally crippled a woman who didn't love him.

It might be that Barry traveling back in time was a time-travel too many, the straw that broke the camel's back so to say.

Okay, that makes some sense.

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Supreme Marvel

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I didnt like the fact Barry was brought back. Dont see why. Wally was loved at the time.

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Antebellum

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Hmm, Interesting. His Aquaman is badass though.

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waezi2

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Hmm, Interesting. His Aquaman is badass though.

Oh yes, good stuff. Even if there were a bit too many people-think-Aquaman-sucks moments that Johns used to hammer in his point that people don't get Aquaman... or rather, they DIDN'T since everyone thinks he is a total badass now:)

I didnt like the fact Barry was brought back. Dont see why. Wally was loved at the time.

As far as I understand, and I might be wrong, the reason to why Barry returned from the grave was that the series with Wally as Flash did not do so well as it used to, so they tried bringing back the original speedster to boost sales.

But the thing is... the reason to why the series before Flash Rebirth had lower sales was actually DC's fault since Mark Waid(legendary Flash writer) had been promised he could have full control over the series that would bring back Wally to the DC verse(Bart had been Flash after Infinite Crisis). Waid did something interesting by making Wally's twin kids his sidekicks with atypical speed-related powers and focused on family. But then DC ignored their promises to Waid and replaced him with some rando who just didn't do it for the fans of Wally.

So brining back Barry was kinda pointless, besides that he was used as plot tool to start flashpoint that would then lead to New 52.

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@waezi2: Im a big Waid fan, and I've heard about what happened with DC and him. Not surprised, DC are still doing bad in management ranks.

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@waezi2: Im a big Waid fan, and I've heard about what happened with DC and him. Not surprised, DC are still doing bad in management ranks.

There was a time they fired Gail Simone over email

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@waezi2 said:

As far as I understand, and I might be wrong, the reason to why Barry returned from the grave was that the series with Wally as Flash did not do so well as it used to, so they tried bringing back the original speedster to boost sales.

But the thing is... the reason to why the series before Flash Rebirth had lower sales was actually DC's fault since Mark Waid(legendary Flash writer) had been promised he could have full control over the series that would bring back Wally to the DC verse(Bart had been Flash after Infinite Crisis). Waid did something interesting by making Wally's twin kids his sidekicks with atypical speed-related powers and focused on family. But then DC ignored their promises to Waid and replaced him with some rando who just didn't do it for the fans of Wally.

So brining back Barry was kinda pointless, besides that he was used as plot tool to start flashpoint that would then lead to New 52.

Bringing back Barry may very well have been pointless in-story. Behind the scenes, it was just getting back another major character lost in COIE. :) ...Not only that, but fans complained about wanting Barry back almost as much as they wanted Hal back after Emerald Twilight.

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McFlicky

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Meh. I'm fine with what he did to barry's parents. I honestly didn't even care about barry before that

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@waezi2 said:
@supreme_marvel said:

@waezi2: Im a big Waid fan, and I've heard about what happened with DC and him. Not surprised, DC are still doing bad in management ranks.

There was a time they fired Gail Simone over email

I liked with it Levitz was in charge of DC. Although I've always wanted Waid on Superman, and Levitz wouldn't allow it. I still prefer Levitz's time on DC. Than post-Levitz.

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The Spectre one isnt a retcon. It was established before the series that Hal was having trouble coping with the Spectre and its violent nature. In an issue of JLA, Martian Manhunter helps steer the despairing Hal onto the right path and the JM Demattaeis series builds upon that. Towards the end of the series, Hal discovers that his attempts to redeem all of these villains is actually having an adverse effect on the world around him and decides that the Spectre cant be a Spirit Of Redemption anymore. He is forced to give Helen up for her own good (and the universe's as Helen was destined to become and messianic figure and being around a violent uncle whose mission was to being punishment and vengeance wouldve been quite counterproductive) around this time.

It's not hard to buy that Hal would become bloodthirsty again after that.

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IndomitableRegal

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I like the Barry and Black Hand retcons lol. *dives into bunker*

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MAZAHS117

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Yeeeeah Black Hand is just, well ..odd

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You know most of these pre New 52 retcons are least worst things that Johns has done over the years. I have liked everything Johns did prior to New 52. 52 was my favorite with Black Adam. Although IC origin Black Hand is creepy....

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#20  Edited By phisigmatau

@waezi2:

Did they fix the spam bots