4 Developments from The Flash Season 2, Episode 23 [SPOILERS]

SO Barry comes over to check on Oliver when Laurel died but Oliver doesn't even call when Barry's father is murdered???

Cold Arrow.

I don't think Oliver would even know what happened. When Laurel died, it was a big deal because of her position and her families connections. It was also during a high profile event with Damian Dark getting out of prison. Barry's father wasn't as well known, so it's unlikely Oliver heard about it yet. Plus The Flash can get over to Star City much faster than Oliver. :P

@constantine1610 said:

Yeah, I guess. I just thought the whole "race" thing got overly silly. Not a big deal in the long run though.

two words: Phone Arrow.

I don't understand how Henry Allen's doppelganger could be Jay Garrick. That doesn't make sense to me. It's like saying my doppelganger on Earth-3 is Obama.

I hope they reset the entire Arrow/Flash/Supergirl universe so that:

1) Oliver and Felicity are never a couple and that it is Laurel Lance that is Oliver's true love (like in the comics)

2) Barry was not raised by Joe West so that Iris and Barry are not a combination of step siblings and lovers but instead just lovers.

3) They get another actor to play Ray Palmer and Brandon Routh is the DC TV Universe's new Superman. Maybe instead of Ray Palmer, we should have Ted Kord instead for the role of tech/millionaire.

4) There is no romance between Supergirl and Jimmy (I mean "James") Olsen. Instead Jimmy stays with Lucy Lane (to respect 75 years of comic history). Get a new actor to play Jimmy or at least have Jimmy act more like Jimmy. Mehcad Brooks could stay on the show as a new character named "James Evans" whom Supergirl develops a crush on.

@black_arrow: That was so good!

I absolutely loved this episode, until the end. I always knew it was John Henry Shipp in the mask, but my thought was that it 90's Flash since we saw him in the Speed Force, but this reveal was much better, and that suit was fantastic!!

And also we're getting some kind of Flashpoint in the first few episodes of the season.

The episode seem predictable, but the moment Jay Garrick was revealed and the ending really made it exciting. Makes me curious to know how much of Flashpoint will be in season 3.

So, i assume this means Flash is now disjointed from all the other CW shows correct? When we watch Arrow there is no more flash because he is gone. So basically this changes nothing to the other shows.

Next season is going to be about trying to reestablish relationships with all his friends.

I preferred Zoom's fake Jay outfit to the real one. Also, when Zoom was being taken by the wraiths his symbol went red, so he will probably become Black Flash.

What I didn't get was this: in the episode they literally explain how Earth-1 is the access point to all the different earths. Yet, when Jay wants to go back to his own earth, he needs to go to Earth-2 to get there? There were some other nitpicky complaints I had but overall I was pretty happy with how they wrapped up this season. While not everything was great, I did overall enjoy this season a lot and felt that the storylines paid off in the end.

Isn't that exactly what he did in the comic, though? He was visiting his mothers' grave and just up and left.

Point still stands that Barry is a dick

How and why did Zoom's plan change from "beat Barry, become the fastest" to "build thing that requires Barry's speed"? According to Caitlyn, Zoom got this idea back when Barry's speed was gone, but Barry needs his speed for the plan to even begin.

When Wells replicated the particle accelerator experiment, Zoom was going to stop them or possibly kill Barry immediately if it had worked. What was Zoom planning to do if Barry never returned or never got his speed back?

Okay, I totally have no how the heck time remnants work after this episode. I understood it when Reverse-Flash came on, but killing yourself over and over? There has to be a paradox in that somewhere.

Overall this season was disappointing to me. While it is hard to live up to that first season they did, Season 2 was just a mess with lots of great moments. The first seven or so episodes were just set up for Legends of Tomorrow (which they could have done better), after that it felt like they didn't know where to go. After the big breaks we had some really fun episodes, but things kept getting more and more complicated. Zoom's actions start to make less sense, especially when he kept saying "you won't believe who's behind that mask" Oh really? I think everybody guessed that one from the start. All the character build up from the Kevin Smith episode and onward was just thrown out the window when Barry made that stupid decision at the end, and oh man are they really going to keep coming back to this decision to save his mom every season? To say the least the finale made me mad.

Sucked just like most of S2, they completely rekted Zoom's character hoping that reboot works.

Loved seeing Henry as the Original Golden Age Flash. In the scene where Joe asks about the man in the Iron Mask the camera caught the actor's eye and you could tell it was John Wesley Ship underneath the iron mask.

I am calling that rip makes an appearance because of how Legends of Tomorrow ended. The "Flashpoint" story arc should be resolved by the end of December before they come back after the holidays.

They had to go ''flashpoint'' didn't they. I thought DC was trying to move past from that crap. I mean even Rebirth is there fix the mess Flashpoint created. Also I still think time-travelling should be put on shelf at least for a while. Most of the Time-travel stories have too many loopholes and paradoxes to make it look awful. Not to mention it gives the awful ''Superman fly so fast to spin the world backwards to rewind time '' levels of explainations.

I am also wondering, is DC Cinematic universe not in the Multiverse ? I mean Marvel has his TV-show / Movies having their own universes but they also exist in the multiverse. So having this to be the ''Earth-1 but not the comic-book Earth-1 since it is different now. '' while filling the role of Prime Earth... Kinda feels weird.

Henry Allen doppleganger is the old JSA Jay Garrick huh ? ...interesting twist although I wouldn't have mind not that much of a direct connection. I mean not all Flash-related characters have to be involved with Allen family. Jay was his own unique guy you know :D

Here comes Flashpoint.

This.

I'm surprised I seemed to be the only one who thinks that having Earth 3's Jay Garrick be the doppelganger of Earth's Henry Allen to make absolutely no sense.

ABSOLUTELY LOVE JAY'S LOOK AND FREAKING FLASHPOINT NEXT SEASON!!!!!

Future Barry is from 2025. He must have told Barry from end of season one to not save his mom because that might screw up the timeline. That means that future Barry must obviously had gone through Flashpoint already due to being Barry from the year 2025. Current Barry hasn't gone through the events of Flashpoint yet. He will in season three seeing how Barry never became the Flash now that he saved his mother. Basically, 2025 Barry must have had experience, therefore he told end-season one Barry not to save his mother. Current Barry saved his mom, thus leading to Flashpoint.

Well, to be fair, he couldn't deal with it anymore. First his mother was killed, than his dad was imprisoned for something he didn't do and he lost lots of time with his dad, then his dad came back and his dad was viciously murdered in front of him. I mean, if all that would happen to me, I'd probably be on the verge of taking suicide. That's incredibly much for a person to deal with. Also, this should summarize why he did what he did:

''And a life of gnawing emptiness finally pushed you over the edge. To a place you swore you'd never go.''

At the end of season one, he stopped from saving his mother, but now he couldn't deal with the shit life was throwing at him anymore. Not to mention how Barry spent time with his mother in the Speed Force pulled up a lot of emotions.

Frankly, I fully understand Barry. I'd probably do the same.

You could clearly see that, that was the spark that began the Flashpoint event. After he saved his mother, the Barry from the end of season one faded out and completely diminished. That's because he never became the Flash in the timeline he saved his mom.

Caity Lotz posted a picture on Facebook where Amell, Routh, Gustin, the girl who plays Supergirl and Lotz posed and she wrote ''massive crossover'' and something else as well on the caption. She did it 30 minutes ago or something.

So in season one and two, we've followed the lives of people from a splinter timeline. Returning to the main timeline (where Wells and his wife created the particle accelerator years later, and Barry's powers occurred separately) would not necessarily cause a Flashpoint event. Season one Barry faded out because his timeline ceased to exist, but that doesn't mean anything, because he was from a splinter timeline in the first place.

Sure.

@mattydavehalpeo: ah, you beat me to that point. Everyone is talking about Flashpoint but everything up to this point has been a byproduct of Thawne's murder of Nora Allen and Harrison Wells so without those events taking place technically everything that actually occurred up to his timeline is now in effect.

So technically the true Harrison Wells and his wife should still be alive and creating the particle accelerator, likely sometime in the span of the first 2 seasons. However, did Barry's powers occur separately??? I thought it was just that he was older when the accelerator event happened.

If the "real" accelerator event takes place at roughly the time of season 2 it could be an interesting start to season 3 that Barry wakes up from the coma brought on by the accident and his change. However, the need for a learning season no longer holds any meaning as Barry would retain all the memories of the former timeline and thus all the experience and ways of using the Speed Force.

But with the Wells' never being killed it could mean we've still got a Jesse Wells, simply one born on this Earth shortly after Nora's life was saved. Also without Barry in the house acting as an adoptive son could have resulted in Joe trying to find his ex-wife and learning of Wally earlier. Thus these two characters could still be in Central City in season 3 and because of that be exposed to the particle accelerator accident just like everyone else was. The same could hold true of Eddie.

What about Ronnie though? Here I think we'll see the effects of Legends of Tomorrow stay the same with Jason and Professor Stein becoming something of anomalies within this new timeline, much the way Waverider and his fellow Linear Men are often anomalies within the comics. It might even be that Ronnie simply died when the accelerator exploded in order to keep their own aspects from permanently changing. Technically this would make Captain Cold and Heat Wave anomalies as well and that's what could become the trigger for season 3's big arc.

Coming back to the present in this new timeline, but with all their memories of the previous version, could make CC and HW the big threat Barry will be facing. I wasn't a huge fan of Legends of Tomorrow so dropping them from the show going forward to bring them back into Flash proper would be nice. Having knowledge of who the Flash is and who got what powers from the accelerator could drive CC and HW to form the first true iteration of the Rogues that we all know from the comics, especially as Barry will be a greater adversary now with his own knowledge and experience of his opponents. This could lead up to a big war with the Rogues that we haven't gotten yet.

That conflict could also drive 2 developments. One would be Jesse and Wally gaining their own speed as Barry helps them establish their own connections to the Speed Force following the particle accelerator accident to aid him against the Rogues. Second could be Eddie gaining his own connection to the Speed Force and taking on the mantle of Reverse Flash....thus getting us back to the comic book idea that the Allen/Thawne rivalry moves through multiple generations. Where that could drive from is a triangle which formed between Barry-Iris-Eddie before the accelerator explosion but with Barry and Iris finally becoming the couple. Eddie may learn Barry's secret in the process of this season and come to believe that he lost Iris because Barry is the Flash and that leads to him taking the mantle of Reverse Flash. He doesn't even have to be a Rogue.....changing it around a bit to be like Jason Todd's Red Hood could be interesting where Eddie is more violent in his approach to crime now that he's got super speed. The misconception by the public that it might be the Flash doing that could also accelerate the war with the Rogues.

Just some thoughts and a few ways season 3 could take things back to the basics a bit but still drive forward with storylines and concepts closer to what comic book readers would expect. Allowing a few episodes to duck into multiverse territory could also be nice and limit a crossover event to a contained big villain that evokes more a Justice League feel than what we've gotten so far but not impact the true arc of season 3 at all.

I like this a lot

Well I've asked the villains of seasons three and four to be the Rogues and then Cobalt Blue. I could see Eddie as a Cobalt Blue rather than ANOTHER iteration of the Reverse Flash. From my understanding, you're right, people travelling the timeline would be unharmed by the 'reboot' or whatever we're going to call it. I'd love to see the rogues team up and pose an honest threat, because I feel the series has done them a disservice so far. Mirror Master HAS TO appear soon as well.

I have 3 more questions, maybe you guys can help me answer them.

1- Barry (Future Flash, 2025) followed Eobard back in time to stop him from killing Barry (kid), and in failing to do so, Eobard killed Barry´s mom instead........wouldn´t that mean that in the timeline from Barry (Future Flash, 2025) his mom was still alive and he became The Flash even though her mom wasn´t killed ?? My reasoning behind this is because Barry (Future Flash, 2025) did not know Eobard was going to kill his mom after failing to kill kid Barry, Eobard did it out of anger.

2- When Eobard got stuck in the past where he killed Barry´s mom......where did Barry (Future Flash, 2025) go ?? Did he just leave to his original timeline and left Eobard in the past without thinking about the consequences ??

3- When Eobard took Harrison Wells´ face and made the particle accelerator explosion happen earlier.......wouldn´t that change Barry´s (Future Flash, 2025) timeline and probably erease all that he went through.

And two thoughts.

1- I don´t think Barry (Future Flash, 2025) went through the "Flashpoint" type event that we will see in Season 3, his timeline is totally different from the Barry we know from the show, that Barry (Future Flash, 2025) became Flash in a later point in his timeline, and when Eobard made the particle accelrator explode years earlier, he messed up with everything that Barry (Future Flash, 2025) went through and basically changed that timeline with different events.

2- Basically, I agree with some of the comments in here, I would probably do the same that Barry did, he has gone through a lot, most people would probably kill themselves, Barry´s emotional endurance is really strong.

@thor_parker82

Q1: Yeah, that would actually mean that 2025 Barry's mom was alive when Barry became the Flash. But here's the thing: some things with speedster honestly can't be explained because it either doesn't make any sense or is absolutely to confusing. There must be something like Flash and Zoom being a constant part of the timeline, hence why Thawne came back from the future after he was erased from existence at the end of season one. I honestly don't know what else to say, because the whole time-travel thing with the Flashes is so stupid. But since Thawne wanted to create the particle accelerator earlier, that must have meant that 2025 Barry must have become Flash later on in his own timeline while his mother was still alive.

In the comics, at least, Thawne couldn't kill Barry himself so he killed his mother instead.

Q2: Yup. Thawne explained how he got further into the current timeline when in disguise of Harrison Wells. He explained the whole thing of how he killed the real Harrison Wells and the story behind how he proceeded to created the particle accelerator.

Then again, that was future Barry, he already knew the entire past and story of Thawne/Harrison, so if he left Thawne to be in the past after he had murdered his mom, that was most likely because he already knew how Thawn's story would go, if you know what I mean.

Q3: I doubt that because future Barry still seemed to be the same as he did at the end of season one when season one Barry saw him, and the last episode in season two when the current Barry saw him.

2025 Barry probably hasn't gone through a Flashpoint-event, because he became Flash at a later time when Thawne wasn't responsible for it. But I do certainly think that current Barry will go through it considering that he stopped Thawne from killing his mom, meaning that Thawne won't create a particle accelerator in the timeline Barry saved his mom. I believe that because the Flash we saw at the end of season one who witnessed the death of his mother, literally just disappeared out of existence.

I hope that @black_arrow can answer some of these questions himself, since I believe can give you a better answer.

@captain_batman_ftw: Damn, this time travel stuff is too complicated.

The only development from the finale, was the entire deconstruction of everything we have seen.

I've been thinking about all these time travel shenanigans, and the only sense I can make if it is this:

Barry just prevented his whole timeline between his mothers death and now from happening the same way, as what happened with Hartley. When he goes back, he will be in a new timeline where whatever the ramifications of altering the timeline will be in effect. I'm sure the time wraiths and black flash will all have their part to play in the crisis for next season. But this new timeline will have a possibly free eobard thawne with his connection to the speed force, earth 1 Harrison wells, hopefully a reboot of sorts to the universe.

Anyone else wonder if the Barry that died, actually survived, and is maybe the one that can restore the timeline?

I know. I don't know if I should try to stop trying to understand some of the concepts of the Speed Force, or if I should call it illogical due to it being so confusing. I still don't fully understand how comic Zoom's time stopping power works, to be honest. Some of the speedsters' concepts and such are just ridiculous. I guess we just have to go along with it. Basically this:

@captain_batman_ftw: Lol, that image is so spot on.

If Jay Garrick is from Earth-3, then it makes sense why Barry's Dad's doppleganger isn't Jay or the speedster from Earth-2. Also, Hourman might have come from Earth-3, since he and Jay Garrick are part of the Justice Society.

Flashpoint should at least affect Arrow, because if the current Flash had prevented Nora's death, Barry will not get affected by the particle accelerator, which was caused by Eobard Thawne, hence Eobard is not stuck in the past. Still, Barry meets Oliver Queen back in the episode, "The Scientist", because at that time, Barry wasn't Flash yet. No particle accelerator means no Flash, and other metahumans, which also means Barry didn't join with Team Arrow in the crossover episodes. So, there should be some changes in Arrow Season 5. Oliver Queen will still be Green Arrow, but he has never met the Flash.

It may not affect Legends of Tomorrow, since the team operates outside of time, but they will find out what Barry had done.

It will not affect Supergirl, since it takes place on another Earth.