Beerus is still stronger than Goku officially confirmed!

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takenstew22

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#1  Edited By takenstew22  Moderator
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Goku doesn't attempt to refute it.

It's over. Only Frieza could possibly rival Beerus now.

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Elenwood

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Not even a little surprised.

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Koose104

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Well, that’s that

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Pandalumina

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#5  Edited By Pandalumina

Goku is stuck with mostly using an omen form (very obvious nerf due to writing themselves into a corner). At this point he needs to get in some serious training before people like Tien surpass him.

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It does seem like they could be setting him up to surpass Beerus in this arc, but who knows at this point. It's been 10 years (from 2013-2023) and they still haven't had a rematch to this day.

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Omega7373663

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#6  Edited By Omega7373663
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Pandalumina

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rajjarsalt

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Poetic

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J_Normal

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People were really out here insulting people who denied Goku>Beerus lol

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Gaoron

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Duh

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SheevSmacker

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noobsnowman

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@sheevsmacker: ???

Beerus claiming that he's stronger than Goku dosen't mean that he's actually stronger than him.

Second, Goku's strongest form right now is actually Omen, not MUI, so Beerus is actually comparable to him unlike before when he was sorely outclassed.

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SheevSmacker

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@noobsnowman: 🤦🤦🤦

if goku stronger the beerus he say but no.

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SheevSmacker

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noobsnowman

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#16  Edited By noobsnowman

Also, why would Goku attempt to refute it? You think he wants to risk pissing Beerus off and creating a messy situation?

Second, Goku respects Beerus and his title, so even if Goku were to be stronger than Beerus, he has the humility to not overtly say it.

Beerus himself has overtly admitted Goku's superiority in his usage of Ultra Instinct as far back as in the ToP, that incident is far more telling because it is when Beerus gets reality checked instead of speaking things out of ego.

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noobsnowman

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#17  Edited By noobsnowman

@sheevsmacker: Intent? By who? Delusional fans like yourself and your grandmother?

Goku not refuting does not automatically mean he conceded inferiority, lmfao. He needs to overtly say it first before you even remotely have a point. Goku was far more concerned about not being interested in being a Destroyer, it dosen't suit his nature.

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CrimsonSlayer85

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#18  Edited By CrimsonSlayer85

Goku is currently stuck at UI Omen, which Beerus can likely still compete against. Beerus believing he is still above Goku out of pride does not mean anything if he already admitted that Goku pulled off UI before him, and has feats of struggling significantly with his fellow Destroyers, whereas UI Omen Goku contended well with a fighter above Destroyers. Interesting how people don't make threads on that, but rather on this out of all the very solid evidence that Beerus has been surpassed by the TOP arc.

Of course Goku did not refute it. Goku's goal now are Whis and then the Grand Minister, he already said he is not interested in being a God of Destruction. Beerus is only helpful for Vegeta now, who choosed to master Ultra Ego. But even then he did it to surpass Goku in the first place. Contrary to what people like to believe, Beerus isn't anyone's "goalpost" now narratively speaking. Dude in this very same chapter was literally reduced to a side character fishing and having dementia over Gohan.

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noobsnowman

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@crimsonslayer85: Don't forget that he also mentioned to Vegeta how his power is unlimited.

Anyone with the slightest bits of common sense knows that Beerus mostly says things out of pride.

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SheevSmacker

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@noobsnowman:

Also, why would Goku attempt to refute it? You think he wants to risk pissing Beerus off and creating a messy situation?

because he goku goku will call the 🧢 if weak person say he stonger by feat

Second, Goku respects Beerus and his title, so even if Goku were to be stronger than Beerus, he has the humility to not overtly say it.

no. also goku > beerus never been state.

Beerus himself has overtly admitted Goku's superiority in his usage of Ultra Instinct as far back as in the ToP, that incident is far more telling because it is when Beerus gets reality checked instead of speaking things out of ego.

This not mean anything. Frieza have ZERO UI and he STOMP the TUI Goku and make the fooder CRY.

Level of UI =/= level of power by feat.

Goku UI > Beerus UI =/= Goku > Beerus

Goku UI >>> Frieza UI (no UI) =/= Goku >>> Frieza.

.

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Not everyone can be Beerus the 🐐🐐🐐

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SheevSmacker

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@sheevsmacker: Intent? By who? Delusional fans like yourself and your grandmother?

Goku not refuting does not automatically mean he conceded inferiority, lmfao. He needs to overtly say it first before you even remotely have a point. Goku was far more concerned about not being interested in being a Destroyer, it dosen't suit his nature.

Intent? By who? Delusional fans like yourself and your grandmother?

Why are you med?

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Straight-Fire

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Goku copium already started.

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SheevSmacker

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It's over for gokucels

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noobsnowman

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#24  Edited By noobsnowman

@sheevsmacker:

This not mean anything. Frieza

Frieza has nothing to do with Beerus admitting inferiority to Goku.

You know who ends up crying at the end of this? Beerus.

Looks like Beerus is the one shaking his boots to me.

I also find it amusing that you posted a bunch of debunked content to prove your already moot point, you might as well beat a dead horse at this point.

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noobsnowman

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@sheevsmacker: Not mad, just amusing that you're justifying a fake version of Beerus rather than the actual character.

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SheevSmacker

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@sheevsmacker:

This not mean anything. Frieza

Frieza has nothing to do with Beerus admitting inferiority to Goku.

You know who ends up crying at the end of this? Beerus.

Looks like Beerus is the one shaking his boots to me.

I also find it amusing that you posted a bunch of debunked content to prove your already moot point, you might as well beat a dead horse at this point.

Frieza has nothing to do with Beerus admitting inferiority to Goku.

Can read or no?

Have better UI =/= stronger

that is point of frieza comparison.

Frieza have NO UI but Goku have UI but Frieza >>>>> Goku now

Same Beerus UI << Goku UI but that no mean Goku > Beerus by feat.

Very very poor counter.

Looks like Beerus is the one shaking his boots to me.

Because Goku achieve better tehcnique the the Beerus and have more skill not because he stronger. where it say goku stronger here? NO.

I also find it amusing that you posted a bunch of debunked content to prove your already moot point, you might as well beat a dead horse at this point.

"debunked content"

doesn't refute it

??

very poor method of argument

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noobsnowman

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#27  Edited By noobsnowman

@sheevsmacker:

Havebetter UI =/= stronger

Because Goku achieve better tehcnique the the Beerus and have more skill not because he stronger. where it say goku stronger here? NO.

Really? But Beerus' UI is why he is considered one of the stronger gods, and your own scans literally proves it. His UI saved him from getting stomped when all the GoDs ganged up on him.

If Goku's UI is superior to that, then that's solid evidence that Goku even in Omen could at least compete with Beerus or even beat him. Goku just in Omen quite literally surpassed Beerus' best feat.

Frieza still remains irrelevant.

"debunked content"

doesn't refute it

??

very poor method of argument

How about let's start with the scan that Granolah asked to be stronger than everyone except the gods.

Granolah is weaker than Dende and the Supreme Kai now? Because they are also gods alongside Beerus.

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jaakor

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If ire the same 2-3 alts that keep running the circus trying to "refute" this

Once Beerus is surpassed, it will be known

Now he says "once you surpass me", so that event is definitely coming, even if it may not be anytime soon

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TheWatcherKing

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What’s to say about it? Goku will keep being rectonned to be weaker than Beerus till he himself or someone who he has to beat takes on/beats Beerus

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SheevSmacker

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@noobsnowman:

Really? But Beerus' UI is why he is considered one of the stronger gods

Source? Nowhere say this.

your own scans literally proves it. His UI saved him from getting stomped when all the GoDs ganged up on him.

UI not change fact that Beerus about to one shot five of they GoDs

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Goku's UI is superior to that, then that's solid evidence that Goku even in Omen could at least compete with Beerus or even beat him. Goku just in Omen quite literally surpassed Beerus' best feat.

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UI not mean anything if lack the stats and power to replicate speed and power of combatant who perform they feat.

UI Level =/= Power level. very simple

Frieza still remains irrelevant.

TUI did not save the Kakarot from getting BLITZ and STOMP by Frieza who have NO UI

by your logic UI Goku can replicate any Black Frieza dodging feat and fighting feat because he have UI and Frieza no?

Goku UI >>> Beerus UI =/= Goku >>> Beerus. Common sense.

How about let's start with the scan that Granolah asked to be stronger than everyone except the gods.

Granolah is weaker than Dende and the Supreme Kai now? Because they are also gods alongside Beerus.

🥱🥱🥱

clearly not refer to them.

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Omega7373663

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@sheevsmacker: Beerus literally struggled against Belmod who is weaker than Jiren so no Beerus is still weaker

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takenstew22

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#32  Edited By takenstew22  Moderator

@pandalumina: @crimsonslayer85: @noobsnowman: Where's the evidence that he's stuck in Omen and can't access MUI? And how would that even matter in this context? Beerus is obviously taking all of Goku's forms into account.

Also, Beerus talking about Goku's UI surpassing his in the TOP doesn't mean Goku got stronger than him. The UI ability in of itself is not a measurement of raw power, reacting to attacks is its main gimmick. Greater overall power is just an extra. Beerus' UI is not on par with Goku's but that's irrelevant because his raw power still exceeds his.

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silvanus

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This is no surprise. Yes, based on feats and scaling, Beerus should've been clearly surpassed by now. But Beerus have always been moving ahead of scaling. Remember when SSG gave him a fight? Remember when there were debates if SSBKK surpassed him? Heck, I was certain that MUI surpassed him clearly by the end of ToP.

But this is Dragonball.

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noobsnowman

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@sheevsmacker:

Source? Nowhere say this.

How about actually take a look at your own scan and see Beerus dodge hits from all the GoDs.

Beerus about to one shot five of they GoDs

Yet Sidra's barrier was enough to block it.

If Beerus that strong as you claim then it should have easily penetrated that shield.

UI not mean anything if lack the stats and power to replicate speed and power of combatant who perform they feat.

UI Level =/= Power level. very simple

Except that Beerus' UI was what helped him dodge hits from all the GoDs? And that was his best feat?

Posting memes does not change the fact that Goku in UI Omen surpassed Beerus' best feat of dodging all the GoDs on the virtue of having superior UI.

TUI did not save the Kakarot from gettingBLITZ and STOMPby Frieza who haveNO UI

And if Beerus' UI is worse than Goku's, then Frieza would one-shot Beerus all the same.

🥱🥱🥱

clearly not refer to them.

Clearly not?

The scan literally said 'gods' not 'Beerus'

Obviously it refers to them, because they are also gods. You don't pick and choose which gods it refers to and which one it dosen't.

That's why that scan is faulty and has been debunked.

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noobsnowman

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@takenstew22:

Where's the evidence that he's stuck in Omen and can't access MUI?

Because Omen is currently his best form?

He can't access the full power of MUI because his emotions would get in the way from keeping his mind and heart calm. He can access MUI, but he can't access the full power of MUI.

And how would that even matter in this context? Beerus is obviously taking all of Goku's forms into account.

And where is your evidence for this?

Also, Beerus talking about Goku's UI surpassing his in the TOP doesn't mean Goku got stronger than him. The UI ability in of itself is not a measurement of raw power, reacting to attacks is its main gimmick. Greater overall power is just an extra. Beerus' UI is not on par with Goku's but that's irrelevant because his raw power still exceeds his.

Beerus' UI is a defining factor that makes him one of the stronger GoDs, it's what helped him evade the attacks from the GoDs when they ganged up on him. That's his best feat. Goku surpassed Beerus' best showing on the virtue of having superior UI only being in Omen. This dosen't factor in Goku at MUI at his peak (Moro Arc), which puts Goku on a completely different level and way out of Beerus' league.

Besides, the feats game favours Goku too. You can claim Belmod to be a trash GoD all you want, but Belmod has shown to be capable of completely immobilising Beerus, and cause visible damage to him. Yet UI Omen Goku was able to keep up with Jiren, who is stated to be stronger than Belmod, and has external accolades that places him above all 12 GoDs. That enough should be evidence that UI Omen Goku should at least be capable of matching Beerus, if not beat him.

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Applekidthethird

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#36  Edited By Applekidthethird

Is it even possible to surpass this stupid cat? Are Toriyama and Toyotarou aware of how annoying these contradictions are? Would they give a crap if they knew?

Who the hell knows at this point. After all of this, I don't think Goku's gonna pass Beerus in power unless there's a whole arc dedicated to it. And even then, we'll probably get a contradiction eventually.

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Pandalumina

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@pandalumina: @crimsonslayer85: @noobsnowman: Where's the evidence that he's stuck in Omen and can't access MUI? And how would that even matter in this context? Beerus is obviously taking all of Goku's forms into account.

???

Am I the only one that saw Goku only go TUI when being fully healed by Monaito and not anything higher?

Why did his new MUI only activate subconsciously when fighting Zombie Gas? Now I'm not saying he can't use the previous version, but that version doesn't last long at all and comes with too many weaknesses.

Goku straight up says Frieza surpassed him, but why would he say that if he never fought him in MUI +avatar? Maybe if he fights Beerus and it activates subconsciously again, but that is too much of a gamble due to apparent lack of training.

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The_Hajduk

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#38 The_Hajduk  Online

@j_normal said:

People were really out here insulting people who denied Goku>Beerus lol

I know bro I took so much shit over this for years. People were literally VINDICTIVE about it, like god forbid you think Beerus is still the strongest and stronger than Jiren. They would come AFTER YOU for speaking that way.

But after all these years, look who was proven right the whole time.

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ScarX

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I’ve never seen this level of cope in my life. I’m actually astonished.

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Argreion

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I haven’t kept up, but I figured this was a situation where the goalpost would just keep being moved so there’s always some goal for Goku to reach even though it seemed like Goku would have passed Beerus a long time ago.

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takenstew22

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#41  Edited By takenstew22  Moderator
@pandalumina said:
@takenstew22 said:

@pandalumina: @crimsonslayer85: @noobsnowman: Where's the evidence that he's stuck in Omen and can't access MUI? And how would that even matter in this context? Beerus is obviously taking all of Goku's forms into account.

???

Am I the only one that saw Goku only go TUI when being fully healed by Monaito and not anything higher?

Why did his new MUI only activate subconsciously when fighting Zombie Gas? Now I'm not saying he can't use the previous version, but that version doesn't last long at all and comes with too many weaknesses.

Goku straight up says Frieza surpassed him, but why would he say that if he never fought him in MUI +avatar? Maybe if he fights Beerus and it activates subconsciously again, but that is too much of a gamble due to apparent lack of training.

He still used TUI because he was still full of emotions and was better for the situation he was in. His MUI avatar "ticked" out of desperation when Gas was about to interrupt Granolah's charged attack. Is MUI "without emotions" really stronger than TUI? Maybe. But Beerus is clearly not leaving out MUI and Goku's overall usage/power with it. There's absolutely no sense of him leaving it out for no reason.

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takenstew22

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#42 takenstew22  Moderator

@j_normal said:

People were really out here insulting people who denied Goku>Beerus lol

I know bro I took so much shit over this for years. People were literally VINDICTIVE about it, like god forbid you think Beerus is still the strongest and stronger than Jiren. They would come AFTER YOU for speaking that way.

But after all these years, look who was proven right the whole time.

I was with the anti-Beerus squad until Granolah arc where it was basically clear to me and I had to accept it.

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Wushu59

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Of course. At this point, Beerus is just a ceiling for Goku to reach / surpass until the author deems it necessary to pull the trigger.

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Pandalumina

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@pandalumina said:
@takenstew22 said:

@pandalumina: @crimsonslayer85: @noobsnowman: Where's the evidence that he's stuck in Omen and can't access MUI? And how would that even matter in this context? Beerus is obviously taking all of Goku's forms into account.

???

Am I the only one that saw Goku only go TUI when being fully healed by Monaito and not anything higher?

Why did his new MUI only activate subconsciously when fighting Zombie Gas? Now I'm not saying he can't use the previous version, but that version doesn't last long at all and comes with too many weaknesses.

Goku straight up says Frieza surpassed him, but why would he say that if he never fought him in MUI +avatar? Maybe if he fights Beerus and it activates subconsciously again, but that is too much of a gamble due to apparent lack of training.

He still used TUI because he was still full of emotions and was better for the situation he was in. His MUI avatar "ticked" out of desperation when Gas was about to interrupt Granolah's charged attack. Is MUI "without emotions" really stronger than TUI? Maybe. But Beerus is clearly not leaving out MUI and Goku's overall usage/power with it.

We're talking about two different versions up to that point where his UI activated on his own. That is the version that he needs more training to be able to use consistently. The one that fought Gas was the previous version with a ton of problems (apparently).

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The_Hajduk

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#45 The_Hajduk  Online

@the_hajduk said:
@j_normal said:

People were really out here insulting people who denied Goku>Beerus lol

I know bro I took so much shit over this for years. People were literally VINDICTIVE about it, like god forbid you think Beerus is still the strongest and stronger than Jiren. They would come AFTER YOU for speaking that way.

But after all these years, look who was proven right the whole time.

I was with the anti-Beerus squad until Granolah arc where it was basically clear to me and I had to accept it.

My argument was always that Jiren was only stronger than Belmod. We have no idea how that scales to Beerus and the other GoDs.

Then people would argue with me that Belmod beat Beerus in the arm wrestle and I am like omg are you serious... way to miss the point of that gag. An arm wrestle means NOTHING in a fight.

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jashro44

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They have moved the goal post with beerus multiple times. At least going by the anime. It’s not that surprising.

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takenstew22

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#47 takenstew22  Moderator

@takenstew22 said:
@the_hajduk said:
@j_normal said:

People were really out here insulting people who denied Goku>Beerus lol

I know bro I took so much shit over this for years. People were literally VINDICTIVE about it, like god forbid you think Beerus is still the strongest and stronger than Jiren. They would come AFTER YOU for speaking that way.

But after all these years, look who was proven right the whole time.

I was with the anti-Beerus squad until Granolah arc where it was basically clear to me and I had to accept it.

My argument was always that Jiren was only stronger than Belmod. We have no idea how that scales to Beerus and the other GoDs.

Then people would argue with me that Belmod beat Beerus in the arm wrestle and I am like omg are you serious... way to miss the point of that gag. An arm wrestle means NOTHING in a fight.

That was also anime only I think. In the manga that mouse GOD is supposed to be Beerus' rival.

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The_Hajduk

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#48 The_Hajduk  Online

@the_hajduk said:
@takenstew22 said:
@the_hajduk said:
@j_normal said:

People were really out here insulting people who denied Goku>Beerus lol

I know bro I took so much shit over this for years. People were literally VINDICTIVE about it, like god forbid you think Beerus is still the strongest and stronger than Jiren. They would come AFTER YOU for speaking that way.

But after all these years, look who was proven right the whole time.

I was with the anti-Beerus squad until Granolah arc where it was basically clear to me and I had to accept it.

My argument was always that Jiren was only stronger than Belmod. We have no idea how that scales to Beerus and the other GoDs.

Then people would argue with me that Belmod beat Beerus in the arm wrestle and I am like omg are you serious... way to miss the point of that gag. An arm wrestle means NOTHING in a fight.

That was also anime only I think. In the manga that mouse GOD is supposed to be Beerus' rival.

What really gets me is that Belmod took a dive in the GoD tournament and pretended to be knocked out, and people looked at that and said he is the strongest one there.

Imagine if that happened in real life, there is a big mob fight and one guy jumps on the ground and pretends he's unconscious because he doesn't want the smoke. There is no way people would think, oh he must be the strongest one there.

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takenstew22

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#49 takenstew22  Moderator

@the_hajduk: Exactly. I used to just think "well he was still conscious so that must mean something" when it really doesn't tbh.

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MasterBuster666

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Just swap Goku for Gohan already! he needs the protag role.