I mean like, If you need some MAJOR FAN quest or TACTICAL NUKE heres the link
http://www.comicvine.com/earth/34-57183/
Mind helping me add some wiki on this?
Lets not. Adding the lists of fictional places was okay, but there's really not much else to add. It's a pretty unnecessary page at best, since we all know what planet we live on. There are much better pages that need more work than the planet Earth. If anyone wants inspiration, they can always check out the Tasks list." @pikahyper: Let the "whores" deal with it "
" @pikahyper: Let them do what they want to do with it and out it in over 1,000,000,000 comics "
If anyone wants to add Earth to any comics, they'll be warned for Point Whoring. If anyone attempted to add Earth to over 1,000 comics, they need to get a life. If anyone tried to add Earth to 1,000,000,000 comics, they will be banned from editing again in future.
End of discussion.
If anyone wants to add Earth to any comics, they'll be warned for Point Whoring. If anyone attempted to add Earth to over 1,000 comics, they need to get a life. If anyone tried to add Earth to 1,000,000,000 comics, they will be banned from editing again in future. End of discussion. "Awesome. Can the same edict be placed on 3600 Sectors of Space? Technically, every DC book could have this tag. I untagged a few that didn't even have a Green Lantern appearance, let alone mention space sectors.
For instance, just because Cyclops appears doesn't mean we need Ruby Quartz adding to the issue too. However, in Uncanny X-Men 201 Storm defeats him in battle... because she removed his ruby qartz visor. So then it can be added.
" @The Dark Huntress: Yep, it's a slow fight to remove Mutant from every X-Men issue because point-whores with Live Edit go nuts with every issue. They should only be used for issues where those objects or concepts play a vital role/are the crux of a plot. For instance, just because Cyclops appears doesn't mean we need Ruby Quartz adding to the issue too. However, in Uncanny X-Men 201 Storm defeats him in battle... because she removed his ruby qartz visor. So then it can be added. "Makes sense. Like if it's the issue that somebody's second mutation appeared then it would be credited, but it isn't credited for every issue that Emma goes diamond form in.
Since we're on the topic, there's always been some things that I've been curious about, around what is considered "point whoring." I'm still relatively new to the site, and I would love to understand more about why the big crackdown.
First off, please take this as a philosophical discussion. I mean no disrespect to anyone, I am just curious to the culture that has evolved on ComicVine prior to my joining.
Why is there such a negative view on "point whoring?" Take Xerox-Kitty's reference to adding the concept of Mutant to every issue of X-Men. Now, I can see this being kinda annoying, true. But, if someone has the time to go through every issue of every X-title and tag it with the appearance of Mutant, how does that hurt? I mean, I would definitely want them to take that time and use it for something with more "value add" to the site, like seeking out Creator images, or filling out a lot of the blank plot summaries or character bios, or the ever-evolving Task List. But on the flip side, their time is their own.
I guess I'd be more concerned if the points allowed for some more robust functionality that could be misused in the wrong hands. But right now, there are only two point requirements here: live edit at 1,000 (which is moot, since a user cannot get there with "point whoring", since the mods approve edits), and the plateau at 5,000. If a user "point-whores" to get to the 5,000 point mark, then they can create new pages and delete images. I *guess* there's some damage that can be done there. If I remember correctly, you get one point for adding a relation to a page. So, if someone wants to go through 4,000 issues of X-titles and add in Mutant, all because they want to create a page on, say, Supermanium, I guess I say more power to them. Or (to steal the topic of another thread) they wish to add in a ton of pictures of action figures of Snake-Eyes or screen shots of Hawkgirl, go for it.
While I think some of the "point whoring" is malicious, I think a lot of it comes from a desire to do good. Take me, for instance. I've added a fair amount of information to the site in the last month-and-a-half... enough to be ranked #62 (out of 0, but that's a bug fix, I guess). I'll be honest and say that I have no life (or maybe more accurately that comics are a big part of my life) and try to dedicate about two hours a day to adding information to the site. And yet, I'm sure I can be accused of "point whoring". For instance, I'm pretty OCD, so it offends my eyes when there are images missing for any of the sections (Creators, Characters, Teams, etc.) on an Issue page. See Action Comics #641. When I finish an Issue page, I have to have images for all those missing characters and creators. Now, characters are easy, since I can just grab the issue and scan in the pics I need. But for creators, I try a google search or a flickr search, but a lot of times they come up with nothing. So I go and find that image that Blue_Shield loaded (you know, the one I like to call " question mark") and add it to the page. Would you consider this "point whoring"? I get 3 points for doing that, and it doesn't add a hell of a lot of value to the site, but the way my brain is wired, I don't think I can't do it.
In the instances XK mentions above, I would tag Adamantium for an issue that has it in its unprocessed form. The same for Ruby Quartz. You don't point to a car and call it "metal." You call it a car. Likewise, if an issue takes place in New York City, I don't tag it with New York City, and New York State, even though one theoretically could. So, even in Uncanny X-Men #201 (which, as a huge Cyclops fan, pissed me off to no end when it came out), I would not tag Ruby Quartz there. But in that one issue of X-Factor (like around issue #23, I think) where Cameron Hodge builds this encasing armor made out of pure Ruby Quartz, I would definitely put it there.
We have a similar problem in my company... we have a number of people categorizing our customers, but the categorization is very subjective. So, in order to fix that, we printed a general guide on when a customer should be categorized, and what the logic is behind it. Maybe we can benefit from something like that? I'd volunteer to help write it.
I guess I am looking for some understanding, and, well, I guess some leniency too. I've seen some people be called out as "point whores" pretty easily on the forums, and I guess the collaborator in me is advocating some understanding rather than name-calling.
@jrh7925: Wow! That's a lot to address!
It creates a false impression on the Mutant page. There are more than just Marvel's mutants in the world of comics. But mostly, because it makes adding teams to issue pointless. Everyone knows that the X-Men are mutants, therefore we don't need to see Mutant added to every appearance or cameo of an X-Man/X-Woman.if someone has the time to go through every issue of every X-title and tag it with the appearance of Mutant, how does that hurt?
It's like the Earth location. We know we're on Earth. We know that every issue is going to be set on Earth, it's set in Space. Therefore we don't need to see Earth attached to every single issue of every single volume.
Thankfully, we pick up on point-whores through the Wikid/Moderation Queue. When we find someone who's going a little overboard with the Concepts & Objects, we warn them not to and to focus on the things that really matter. This is pretty much why we have the different stages for Points, so newbies don't make those horrendous, big mistakes. However, it's pretty easy to get Live Edits if someone put their mind to it. Even I made stupid mistakes when I was still new... but had already gained Live Edits (I added issues from the solicitations as new issues... oops!). The problem is when someone starts to Point Whore when they have Live Edits. By then it's a case of damage control; cleaning up the mess.If a user "point-whores" to get to the 5,000 point mark, then they can create new pages and delete images. I *guess* there's some damage that can be done there.
Absolutely NOT! In fact, none of the examples you've cited are point-whoring. You've gained points the old fashioned way... the way you're supposed to, by writing lots of submissions. Filling in the blanks to replace those question mark images isn't point-whoring; that's making the database more complete & adding to the creator pages (with a more professional image :)So I go and find that image that Blue_Shield loaded (you know, the one I like to call " question mark") and add it to the page. Would you consider this "point whoring"?
Don't worry about the work that you've done. In fact, don't confuse working hard with someone who has no imagination. Adding Ruby Quartz to every Cyclops appearance, or Wolverine's Claws to every Wolverine appearance is silly. We all know that Cyclops has his Ruby Quartz with him and that Wolverine always has his claws. By adding those objects to every appearance the character is in, makes those Object pages redundant. We want the key issues that those things are vital to the plot. Not everytime there's a zakt or a snikt. But there's someone out there who is doing it.
Trust me, I know what you mean about giving up a lot of your time to be on CV. However, someone who desperately wants points that they end up point-whoring doesn't just have too much time on their hands... but they are lazy & unimaginative too! Something you are definitely NOT :)
Very good point! So you could actually transform the Ruby Quartz page to make it more about the raw material... and less about Cyclops' own eye-wear. And if you did that, then you could create a separate page for Cyclops' 'Ruby Quart Visor'. However... I think the page is the way it is, so it isn't specific to JUST the visor, but can cover the glasses & contact lenses too. And that's where things get tricky... how do we interpret things?So, even in Uncanny X-Men #201 (which, as a huge Cyclops fan, pissed me off to no end when it came out), I would not tag Ruby Quartz there. But in that one issue of X-Factor (like around issue #23, I think) where Cameron Hodge builds this encasing armor made out of pure Ruby Quartz, I would definitely put it there.
Ideally someone would check out a page before adding it. But there are (and always will be) people who just add it without ever looking at the page to see if it's the right thing. So if there was a separate page for Cyclops' Visor, then you'd get someone adding both that *and* the Ruby Quartz to every Cyclops appearance.
Overall, there is a lot of personal judgement involved. We've tried writing guides on many aspects, but the people who point-whore will never read/watch them. Everyone is entitled to make mistakes, but it's an old problem... which is why people can get angry about it so quick & easily.
Anyway, I hope that answers some of your questions :)
" Since we're on the topic, there's always been some things that I've been curious about, around what is considered "point whoring." I'm still relatively new to the site, and I would love to understand more about why the big crackdown.Personally, I don't get the purpose of Point Whoring. I mean, after you get the priviledges at 1000 and 5000, what's the point? As far as the negative views on it ... it's a pain in the butt to go through a gallery to look and see if an image has been uploaded already, when SOMEONE has flooded the gallery with a gazillion screencaps or a gazillion pieces of fan art or a gazillion of anything. And it totally invalidates a list when someone adds EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER that a superhero encountered to the Relatives and Friends lists. How am I to tell who is REALLY a friend and who was on a group shot page with the character? Same thing for tagging every issue with something generic. If I go to search for books that actually deal with a concept, it will buried under a pile of comics that don't really address that concept. Besides all that, it usually ends up requires some one to fix whatever was point whored.
First off, please take this as a philosophical discussion. I mean no disrespect to anyone, I am just curious to the culture that has evolved on ComicVine prior to my joining.
Why is there such a negative view on "point whoring?" Take Xerox-Kitty's reference to adding the concept of Mutant to every issue of X-Men. Now, I can see this being kinda annoying, true. But, if someone has the time to go through every issue of every X-title and tag it with the appearance of Mutant, how does that hurt? I mean, I would definitely want them to take that time and use it for something with more "value add" to the site, like seeking out Creator images, or filling out a lot of the blank plot summaries or character bios, or the ever-evolving Task List. But on the flip side, their time is their own.
I guess I'd be more concerned if the points allowed for some more robust functionality that could be misused in the wrong hands. But right now, there are only two point requirements here: live edit at 1,000 (which is moot, since a user cannot get there with "point whoring", since the mods approve edits), and the plateau at 5,000. If a user "point-whores" to get to the 5,000 point mark, then they can create new pages and delete images. I *guess* there's some damage that can be done there. If I remember correctly, you get one point for adding a relation to a page. So, if someone wants to go through 4,000 issues of X-titles and add in Mutant, all because they want to create a page on, say, Supermanium, I guess I say more power to them. Or (to steal the topic of another thread) they wish to add in a ton of pictures of action figures of Snake-Eyes or screen shots of Hawkgirl, go for it.
" @xerox-kitty: well, I admit I don't remember if you were around back then because I don't know how long ago it was, but the reason those images are floating around is because it used to be required to add an image when you made a new page...everyone complained about it as being a bug and thought it should be an option, including G-Man, but the best alternative we could come up with was images like that...there are several variations of it, I used to remove them but nowadays if you remove it, it's still the default pic "Ah, this is exactly what I was looking for! It's these little historical nuances that shed some light as to why CV is what it is today, and stuff that dedicated newbies like me want to know.
For the record, if a creator has no image or if they have a question mark image, I try to find a correct image. But I always err on the side of caution by trying to get an image from their website or from a pic that was obviously taken at a comic convention (making it pretty conclusive that I have the right person). But if I find a creator has no image, then I add the question-mark one, just because I assumed that was what we were supposed to do. When one sees that 80% of the creators with no pic have that image, then someone like me assumes that it is the standard to shoot for. And yes, I know what "assuming" does, but I never learn my lesson ;)
@xerox-kitty said:
Very good point! So you could actually transform the Ruby Quartz page to make it more about the raw material... and less about Cyclops' own eye-wear. And if you did that, then you could create a separate page for Cyclops' 'Ruby Quart Visor'. However... I think the page is the way it is, so it isn't specific to JUST the visor, but can cover the glasses & contact lenses too. And that's where things get tricky... how do we interpret things? Ideally someone would check out a page before adding it. But there are (and always will be) people who just add it without ever looking at the page to see if it's the right thing. So if there was a separate page for Cyclops' Visor, then you'd get someone adding both that *and* the Ruby Quartz to every Cyclops appearance.
True, true. I was actually surprised, given that there was a ton of other object pages, that there was not one for Cyclops' visor. I think the safest thing is exactly what you way: check out the page before you add a link. My very first submission for CV was a correction because someone attached Bumblebee the Transformer not Bumblebee the Teen Titan to one of the Titans issues.
Personally, I appreciate dialogues like this, so thanks both of you for taking the time to respond. I hope we're not boring others reading this thread ;)
it's a pain in the butt to go through a gallery to look and see if an image has been uploaded already, when SOMEONE has flooded the gallery with a gazillion screencaps or a gazillion pieces of fan art or a gazillion of anything. And it totally invalidates a list when someone adds EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER that a superhero encountered to the Relatives and Friends lists. How am I to tell who is REALLY a friend and who was on a group shot page with the character? Same thing for tagging every issue with something generic. If I go to search for books that actually deal with a concept, it will buried under a pile of comics that don't really address that concept. Besides all that, it usually ends up requires some one to fix whatever was point whored. "OK, this makes a lot of sense. I don't tend to deal with a lot of this since I steer clear of a lot of the mainstream folk. I figure there's a ton of people who can work on the Wolverine page, but who's gonna work on the Anima series? I guess I am making a difference between what is technically accurate and silly, and what is not technically accurate. I've come across a lot of pages where someone added a concept or a friend/enemy that was not accurate, and have fixed them. But I can see your point...
While I'm here, I want to point out another point whoring page
Superhero Costumes
The problem is not with people "point whoring". The problem is with concepts and locations that are completely redundant. There doesn't need to be an Earth location page when Earth is the default location and there are already other location pages like New York City and Gotham City. Similarly, there doesn't need to be a Mutant concept page if there are already character pages for characters who are mutants. If you have a Mutant concept page, then it should be no surprise when someone with too much time tries to add every single issue that has a mutant character in it.
Any concept or location should be deleted if adding issues to it is considered point whoring. Because if no one wants to know which issues the concept appears in, then that concept has no reason to exist on Comic Vine.
Unneeded concepts, locations and objects need to be evaluated on a case by case basis and just deleting them to stop point whoring with not stop point whoring, deleting them will just cause someone else to create it again and keep on whoring. I don't remember who but it has been mentioned more then a few times that mods should have the ability to lock pages that have a reason to exist but do not need the ability to add them to issues, ultimately that is the best solution but it isn't likely to happen.
Attaching issues to the Retcon concept page is pointless because that doesn't tell which previous story is being retconned and exactly what is being changed. Terrorism isn't a comic book concept at all and it would be hard to define. By real-life standards, virtually any supervillain could be considered a terrorist.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment