Alternate Universe Character Pages

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#101 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9882 posts) - - Show Bio

She kind of sounds like any generic alternate universe counterpart. Slight differences in a minor role.

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#102 Posted by shroudofsorrow (6195 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: Given that she's featured prominently in every single Spider-Man Noir story, I don't think I'd call her role "minor". Not any more minor than Dark Raider anyway, and he has a page of his own:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/dark-raider/4005-11852/

He showed up in only about six issues, and still got his own page. As has the Grim Knight from DC. If they warrant pages, I fail to see why White Widow doesn't; she is a consistent presence in Spider-Man Noir, has a separate alias from the mainstream version, and has showed up more often than both Dark Raider and Grim Knight.

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#103 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9882 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: Dark Raider at least crossed universes and is an enemy of his counterpart. I don't think Grim Knight should get a page and I often see this abused when it comes the DC.

I don't see any harm in a White Widow page but it's a slippery slope. She doesn't meet a lot of the criteria. It sounds like the only real difference is she uses a different alias.

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#104 Posted by shroudofsorrow (6195 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: Dark Raider at least crossed universes and is an enemy of his counterpart. I don't think Grim Knight should get a page and I often see this abused when it comes the DC.

I don't see any harm in a White Widow page but it's a slippery slope. She doesn't meet a lot of the criteria. It sounds like the only real difference is she uses a different alias.

Well, her backstory and character arc are also very different from the 616 version. It's not just a different alias. And personally, I think Grim Knight deserves his own page, as like Dark Raider, he has interacted with his heroic, mainstream counterpart.

Also, while White Widow has never interacted with 616 Black Cat, she has interacted with at least one character from 616 (Silk). But, since you said you don't see the harm, does that mean I have permission to add the character?

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#105 Posted by Renchamp (7930 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: Just saw your wiki submission. I don't think White Widow deserves her own page. She seems like your standard alternate version character to me. It doesn't look like anyone else was all that convinced, either. Feel free to add her to Black Cat's page as an alternate version.

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#106 Edited by shroudofsorrow (6195 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow said:
@majinblackheart said:

@shroudofsorrow: Dark Raider at least crossed universes and is an enemy of his counterpart. I don't think Grim Knight should get a page and I often see this abused when it comes the DC.

I don't see any harm in a White Widow page but it's a slippery slope. She doesn't meet a lot of the criteria. It sounds like the only real difference is she uses a different alias.

Well, her backstory and character arc are also very different from the 616 version. It's not just a different alias. And personally, I think Grim Knight deserves his own page, as like Dark Raider, he has interacted with his heroic, mainstream counterpart.

Also, while White Widow has never interacted with 616 Black Cat, she has interacted with at least one character from 616 (Silk). But, since you said you don't see the harm, does that mean I have permission to add the character?

I interpreted that as approval.

@renchamp said:

@shroudofsorrow: Just saw your wiki submission. I don't think White Widow deserves her own page. She seems like your standard alternate version character to me. It doesn't look like anyone else was all that convinced, either. Feel free to add her to Black Cat's page as an alternate version.

No plan on doing that.

And I fail to see how she's "standard alternate version character" when her alias and backstory are significantly different. Dark Raider has a separate page, and he has no more appearances than she does. And the claim that "no one else was all that convinced" rings hollow to me, because as I remember it I discussed it with a grand total of two people, one of whom said he saw no harm in adding the page. I still think it should be a separate page. It's not like an overwhelming majority of folks I talked to told me I was wrong. One person disagreed, and one said he saw no harm in it. That's not exactly a majority.

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#107 Posted by Renchamp (7930 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: Most alternate versions of characters have different backstories. We have a litany of factors to consider here, not one or two that we can cherry pick. The answer is still no.

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#108 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9882 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry I'm late, but to be clear me saying I don't see harm in it was followed by additional statements and should not be viewed as an explicit approval.

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#109 Posted by Cloudguy (2644 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart@fesak While this isn't exactly a "alternate universe character" problem. I'd like to bring up the subject of the Power Rangers.

At this moment in time on Cv, we currently list the Power Rangers as individual characters based on their colours with all generations under the same name. I.E. Blue Ranger, Red Ranger. Bar a few select characters that don't fall under the main teams.

The problem occurs in MMPR #40 where the original team of Rangers have some of the members replaced, but still under the same name. Making the title a mantle, rather than something associated with the character. For example, the original Black Ranger was first Zack Taylor and is currently Adam Park for the foreseeable future.

Should we be breaking down character appearances to those under the suit or leave it as it is. Because Power Rangers work in the same way Green Lanterns do, their are multiple of them, all of which are Green Lanterns, but get their own page. But the Power Rangers do not.

Take a look at any of the main Power Ranger pages to see how cluttered they are with several different users of that mantle.

And to keep this on-topic, the Dino Charge series is set in an alternate universe, so would those rangers count for their own pages (don't have comics as far as i'm aware) or just stay part of the mantle pages?

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#110 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9882 posts) - - Show Bio

@cloudguy: Individual characters should have their own pages, I just think no one has ever had the knowledge or wanted to put in the effort to separate them. I think I even added a bunch of volumes way back in the day but didn't have the knowledge to include any more than the existing character pages we already had.

Also, I thought we kind of did away with mantle pages? Obviously these are still here since they are all grouped together. I would think including info on the separate mantles on the team page would suffice.

If the Dino Charge series characters haven't appeared in comics they shouldn't have a page. If they have, the individuals can have their own page and if they are different enough from the regular Power Rangers, their own team page.

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#111 Edited by Cloudguy (2644 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: I'll be happy to go through all the comics and start separating them out.

Power Rangers aren't exactly mantles any more. Back in the early days of the show each ranger passed on their powers to another so they could leave the show. Nowadays each season has a single cast that doesn't change unless they add new Rangers. If anyone should get a page it should be Tommy Oliver, guy's been like 4 different colours of Ranger now.

I'm gonna throw everything into chaos now. I just remembered that a lot of Rangers have appeared in comics, but mainly as a single page or panel. Do we want to count those as actual appearances?

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#112 Posted by Cloudguy (2644 posts) - - Show Bio
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#113 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9882 posts) - - Show Bio

@cloudguy: There's plenty of one shot characters in the wiki. We want to be complete, don't we? It's kind of up to you if you want to add them all though, lol.

The last time I watched I was probably in middle school and Tommy was the white ranger. I kind of want to say all the five were still the original characters/actors. Just thought I'd date myself here...

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#114 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9882 posts) - - Show Bio

But to be clear, if covers and pinups count as appearances, there's no reason a cameo shouldn't.

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#115 Posted by Cloudguy (2644 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: For now I'll just add the main/essential characters as many of the originals have changed power sets over the years. Red MMPR (Jason) becomes Gold Zeo and Tommy went from green to white to red and finally black.

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#116 Posted by fables87 (1782 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: On here, covers and pin-ups don't count as appearance last I checked. Maybe they changed he rules since.

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#117 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9882 posts) - - Show Bio

@fables87: It is he opposite.They always counted unless they changed the rule that they don't. I haven't been a wiki mod in some time though.

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