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#1 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys i asked a few times now but it seems like it is a common thing nowadays. Since when is the DB universe only 2 million km long, or a galaxy sized one compared to our or Goku being not able to break steal or being subsonic at best? Wtf? Did i miss something? Did a new databook come out which has given such statements?

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#2 Posted by midnightdragon18 (9869 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x: just trolls or people who enjoy lowballing dbz

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#3 Posted by Dession_Viper (742 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is the truth so hard for you? that's like saying ''omg since when is Odin not omnipotent because statements said so. stop lowballing''

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#4 Edited by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@dession_viper: which of them are true? 2 million km thing? Show me proof of it. Only galaxy sized? Show me a scan? Subsonic? pls if you can provide me a 100% solid proof for any of them i will accept them all?

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#5 Posted by Dession_Viper (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@dession_viper: which of them are true? 2 million km thing? Show me proof of it. Only galaxy sized? Show me a scan? Subsonic? pls if you can provide me a 100% solid proof for any of them i will accept them all?

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I don't think the DB universe is 1 galaxy but 4 galaxies. but here's the evidence.

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#6 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@dession_viper: omg i really thought you would bring something to the table -.- that is just a plain model to show how the verse is build.

In both the manga and the anime they travel to Jupiter which is furhter away then 2 million kms.

When Super Shenron is summoned you can see a dozen galaxies. The solar system in DB is modelled after our own with Jupiter in it and the moon having the same distance to our earth. The 4 galaxy thing is a translation error because in japanese galaxy and galaxies have the same tranlation.

In the manga Jaco clearly talks about our milky way and how there are infinite galaxies in the universe.

And i asked you for proof. Not for a model which is just a way to explain how the universe works.

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#7 Posted by Parallax42 (131 posts) - - Show Bio

It's just attempt to low ball by DB haters.

The universe being only 2x times the size of the Snake way is debunked in this scan...

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It clearly says the Snake way was actually on Earth to begin with,if anything that means the Earth might be considerably bigger than the real life one considering it's equator length is about 40 000 km and the Snake way is million km.

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It's also proven here that the DB universe has many many galaxies....if anything considering the DB universe also has hell and Kaioshin realm it might be much bigger macroverse.

Goku being unable sometimes to do things related to pure physicals is dependent of how well he manages his KI(CHI) energy to amp his stats.

As shown here when he amps himself enough he can do quite a feats like being casually able to block the Trunks's sword.

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Trunks has gotten stronger since then moment and can also amp his sword with KI and SSJ3 blocked that with 2 fingers in DBS

This sword was the one that cut Frieza in pieces and Frieza survived planet Namek exploding while being half dead

-The another misconception being vaguely scaling Goku and other characters by some clearly non sense moments...

For example it doesn't have to mean that Dyspo is faster than some characters just because his speed has been hyped...It was merely hyped because it's far higher than his other stats,for example he is physically weaker than even Gohan but the show has attempted to hype the concept that someone with lower physical stats can fight much stronger opponents merely because having particular higher ability than his other ones...And we definitely shouldn't take some hype bad writing moments like Zeno being unable to see Dyspo but being able to see other characters...it was merely the show's intent to hype someone's special ability while not paying attention particularly to some other characters's speed like Goku and Jiren...That's like taking seriously the moment where Krillin is able to match Goku's SSB Kamehameha...So Krillin is as strong now?

But i found manga instance where they attempt to say that Jiren might be better in absolute everything compared to his universe's fighters...

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Dyspo was impressed by Jiren being able to travel from one to another planet faster than space ship(considering that Saiyans's spaceships were already FTL i don't see a reason why a much more technologically advanced universe shouldn't have way faster Space Ships)

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#8 Posted by Dession_Viper (742 posts) - - Show Bio

It's just attempt to low ball by DB haters.

The universe being only 2x times the size of the Snake way is debunked in this scan...

No Caption Provided

It clearly says the Snake way was actually on Earth to begin with,if anything that means the Earth might be considerably bigger than the real life one considering it's equator length is about 40 000 km and the Snake way is million km.

No Caption Provided

It's also proven here that the DB universe has many many galaxies....if anything considering the DB universe also has hell and Kaioshin realm it might be much bigger macroverse.

Goku being unable sometimes to do things related to pure physicals is dependent of how well he manages his KI(CHI) energy to amp his stats.

As shown here when he amps himself enough he can do quite a feats like being casually able to block the Trunks's sword.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Trunks has gotten stronger since then moment and can also amp his sword with KI and SSJ3 blocked that with 2 fingers in DBS

This sword was the one that cut Frieza in pieces and Frieza survived planet Namek exploding while being half dead

-The another misconception being vaguely scaling Goku and other characters by some clearly non sense moments...

For example it doesn't have to mean that Dyspo is faster than some characters just because his speed has been hyped...It was merely hyped because it's far higher than his other stats,for example he is physically weaker than even Gohan but the show has attempted to hype the concept that someone with lower physical stats can fight much stronger opponents merely because having particular higher ability than his other ones...And we definitely shouldn't take some hype bad writing moments like Zeno being unable to see Dyspo but being able to see other characters...it was merely the show's intent to hype someone's special ability while not paying attention particularly to some other characters's speed like Goku and Jiren...That's like taking seriously the moment where Krillin is able to match Goku's SSB Kamehameha...So Krillin is as strong now?

But i found manga instance where they attempt to say that Jiren might be better in absolute everything compared to his universe's fighters...

No Caption Provided

Dyspo was impressed by Jiren being able to travel from one to another planet faster than space ship(considering that Saiyans's spaceships were already FTL i don't see a reason why a much more technologically advanced universe shouldn't have way faster Space Ships)

Toriyama's own pen says DB universe is 4 galaxies.

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#9 Posted by Dession_Viper (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@dession_viper: omg i really thought you would bring something to the table -.- that is just a plain model to show how the verse is build.

In both the manga and the anime they travel to Jupiter which is furhter away then 2 million kms.

When Super Shenron is summoned you can see a dozen galaxies. The solar system in DB is modelled after our own with Jupiter in it and the moon having the same distance to our earth. The 4 galaxy thing is a translation error because in japanese galaxy and galaxies have the same tranlation.

In the manga Jaco clearly talks about our milky way and how there are infinite galaxies in the universe.

And i asked you for proof. Not for a model which is just a way to explain how the universe works.

Jaco is unreliable and that's probably hyperbole. everytime they depict the DB universe they show us 3 or 4 galaxies. Super shenron thing is just toei being inconsistent.

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#10 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@dession_viper: wait what? Jaco is a galactic patrol who knows how to get to Zuno, a all known being, and is always in space. How is he unreliable? And no, if the DB verse is remodelled after our own the infinite galaxy thing is as right as it is in our universe. While Goku searches for Vegeta he sees more than 4 galaxies. Super Shenron is not inconsitency when you see how the manga states the same thing and Goku sees more than 4 galaxies while searching. Something is really wrong with you if you go by those things. And yet again i asked for proof, i got none.

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#11 Posted by Dession_Viper (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@dession_viper: wait what? Jaco is a galactic patrol who knows how to get to Zuno, a all known being, and is always in space. How is he unreliable? And no, if the DB verse is remodelled after our own the infinite galaxy thing is as right as it is in our universe. While Goku searches for Vegeta he sees more than 4 galaxies. Super Shenron is not inconsitency when you see how the manga states the same thing and Goku sees more than 4 galaxies while searching. Something is really wrong with you if you go by those things. And yet again i asked for proof, i got none.

DBS Anime is just Toei being inconsistent there's enough proof of that. Manga never showed more than 4 galaxies because the universe is just 4 galaxies.

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#12 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@dession_viper: Manga never showed any galaxy. And DBS anime is the official canon of DBZ.

Again, proof of your 4 galaxy thing without using the false tranlation.

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#14 Posted by Dession_Viper (742 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@dession_viper: On the second part of the post i gave you the official guidebook spells out that there are infinite galaxies in the universe. As Jaco stated aswell.

And WTF don't you understand about showing proof? You never ever shown anything till now. On the contrary you got shown statements, scans, and a whole topic against you.

If you got proof, show it, if not, just accept that you have none.

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#16 Posted by midnightdragon18 (9869 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x: save yourself some time, the dude is just trolling

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#17 Posted by Parallax42 (131 posts) - - Show Bio

@dession_viper: Yea,just like how Toriyama made up the 6:10:15 Goku:Beerus:Whis scale and it was later revealed that SSJ God Goku was not even 1% of Beerus's power.

We both know that Toriyama is not very consistent and anyway it was particularly referred as 4 quadrants of the universe containing many galaxies...

The official guide book of Dragon Ball verse addressed this---

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So in this particular case you DB low ballers referred to Toriyama's words but in some cases you don't want to hear it

Anyway you can't call a canon scene just because of your own head canon inconsistency when there is much more proof that Toriyama is extremely inconsistent...

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#18 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by Parallax42 (131 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x: He is just one sentence negating everyone when a bunch of proofs and scans are shown against him,funny...

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#20 Posted by Wolfus (233 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on guys. We know that DB universe is actually paper size. A4 to be more specific. Zeno can only bust paper. Even naruto solos DBverse, as konohamaru can reality bust.

The only powerful people in DB are the top tiers. El grande padre, gohan blanco, el hermano and shaggy.

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#21 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfus: the wank in your post for DB. Disgusting

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#22 Posted by Wolfus (233 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x:

Lol shut up hater. You DB lowballers. DB universe is drawn by toriyama, that uses A4. So it's paper A4 size with feats.

Zeno could bust your homework or work report if he wanted. Gohan Blanco could bust your PC.

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#23 Edited by Royal_Warrior (5060 posts) - - Show Bio

I do wish the mods did clamp down on the trolling once in awhile

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#24 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfus: oh, you got me to laugh. Thx bud XD

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#25 Posted by GokuAndSuperman (454 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes because Super Shenron being surrounded by galaxies and Goku sensing through the cosmos with galaxies showing up were all fake. Might as well say that's DB is fake and that it only has 4 galaxies. Even though we see Whis traveling across the universe.

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#26 Edited by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of them are either don't know much about DB, lowball or they are just trolling.

Its pretty easy to piss off most of the DB fans on this site.

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#27 Edited by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x said:

@dession_viper: omg i really thought you would bring something to the table -.- that is just a plain model to show how the verse is build.

In both the manga and the anime they travel to Jupiter which is furhter away then 2 million kms.

When Super Shenron is summoned you can see a dozen galaxies. The solar system in DB is modelled after our own with Jupiter in it and the moon having the same distance to our earth. The 4 galaxy thing is a translation error because in japanese galaxy and galaxies have the same tranlation.

In the manga Jaco clearly talks about our milky way and how there are infinite galaxies in the universe.

And i asked you for proof. Not for a model which is just a way to explain how the universe works.

They just asked the writers to draw a universe and they drew it with 15 galaxies or more.

But canonically, the dragon ball universe has only 4 galaxies, each of them controlled by a king kai.

No Caption Provided

See? "The four Kaiou respectively observe the universe, which is divided into four galaxies"

Jaco's statement is non canon since you can only find it in the mangas. The writers of DBS anime and DBS mangas are not the same. Toriyama gave them the scenario and they did whatever they wanted with it. How to know that something is canon or not in dbs? Well, you need to find the statement in both mangas and anime.

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#28 Posted by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterskywalker: Lol, i'll save this for those for people who says " It's an outlier, DBS have changed the rules"

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#30 Posted by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterskywalker: Lol, i'll save this for those for people who says " It's an outlier, DBS have changed the rules"

Lol theres way too much evidence and Toriyamas original outline that suggests the DB verse ranges from the size of 1-4 galaxies. Especially with all the diagrams and the 28 planets with life from Supreme Kai's own statement when regarding contestants for the tournament.

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#31 Posted by DemonGod_PABLO (1581 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly can't believe we're still talking about this in 2018

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#32 Edited by RukelnikovFTW (6131 posts) - - Show Bio

@demongod_pablo said:

I honestly can't believe we're still talking about this in 2018

Well, the power creep doesn't stop, so trolls are grasping at straws...

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#33 Edited by DemonGod_PABLO (1581 posts) - - Show Bio

@demongod_pablo said:

I honestly can't believe we're still talking about this in 2018

Well, the power creep doesn't stop, so trolls are grasping at straws...

true true

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#34 Edited by mrx1122 (2919 posts) - - Show Bio

@royal_warrior said:

I do wish the mods did clamp down on the trolling once in awhile

you are actually good at dealing with trolls.we need your help agaisnt them...

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#35 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterskywalker: the very scan you show has more than 4 galaxies in it plus that the things you guys are just plain models for the understanding. Go check the link I posted to see what the official guidebook overseen by AT says about the universe of DB

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#36 Edited by mrx1122 (2919 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x said:

@masterskywalker: the very scan you show has more than 4 galaxies in it plus that the things you guys are just plain models for the understanding. Go check the link I posted to see what the official guidebook overseen by AT says about the universe of DB

no matter how many proof you show them.they will never quit doing what they are doing for the simple fact they are trolls.

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#37 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

Quit feeding the trolls please, or they'll never leave.

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#38 Posted by mrx1122 (2919 posts) - - Show Bio

Quit feeding the trolls please, or they'll never leave.

thats what i've been saying...

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#39 Posted by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x: No, it's one galaxy in that picture. And if we're following Toriyamas own canon it's 4.

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#40 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: @mrx1122: you are right but when they keep using the same argument over and over again it will show their true intention and I hope to show the admins what they are trying to do.

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#42 Posted by NemesisReloaded (1530 posts) - - Show Bio

Imported from my blog on the matter:

The debate over the size of the DB Universe has unreasonably kept going for far too long, and there are two versions of this miniaturising. The first is that the radius of the DB Universe is 1 million km, and the second is that the DB Universe only contains 4 galaxies.

1 million km Radius

The source of the first is down to the manga release 'Globe of the DB World':

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In the above globe, the solid looking firmament, or base of the globe, is The Universe. It is the stars and planets and space - the living world. Slightly larger than this is The Cosmos, the location of Hell, the Kai's (gods) and Heaven.

One aspect of The Cosmos is Snake Way, said in the manga [Chapter 205] to be 1 million km long which leads to one of the 4 Kai's planets - the North Kai, King Kai. While King Kai's planet is not situated at the edge of the Cosmos, the winding nature of Snake Way has, over the years, lead many to the conclusion that the entire Globe of the DB World is close to 1 million km in radius.

So why is this wrong?

Scale

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Scale is a BIG issue for this theory. King Kai's planet when compared to his car, a 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air, is approximately 63m in diameter. When compared the the Globe, the DB world would be little more than 3km (1.9 miles) in diameter, which is obviously incorrect. The purpose of this is simply to demonstrate that the scale of the contents of the Globe is not accurate, or anything close to it, so any measurements taken from it are unreliable.

Known Planets

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If the DB World is 1 million km in radius, the Universe is 979,310.3km, and failing a 3D location,

  • Planet Vegeta is 596,551.7 km from Earth.
  • Planet Freeza is 508,620.7 km from Earth.
  • Planet Namek is 437,931 km from Earth.

Regardless of the fact nobody knows the size of planets Vegeta, Freeza and Namek, we do know that Namek is similar in type and gravity as Earth and is likely similar in size, and we know that Earth is considered a small planet by both Frieza and Vegeta and that Planet Vegeta has at least 10x Earths gravity, which means that in all likelihood Planets Freeza and Vegeta are larger than Earth.

It's worth pointing out at this juncture that the Moon is 384,400 km away from the Earth. In other words, even if Planets Namek, Freeza and Vegeta are all the same size at the Earth, the would all appear larger than the moon in the night sky. To emphasise the point, even if all of the planets were 2 million km (the diameter of the Globe according to the theory) an Earth-sized planet would still be 70.5% the apparent size of the moon in the night sky.

To labour the point, Freiza had at least 79 planets in his empire, and that doesn't include Yardrat.

There are no other visible planets in the night sky of the Dragonball Earth.

The Solar System

The Real Earth and the Real Solar System as well as surrounding space also provide plenty of information in regard to this theory of the DB Universe.

  1. The Earth is 12,742 km in diameter and would be 0.64% the total diameter of the DB World.
  2. The Moon, as stated, is 384,400 km away from the Earth a distance that would equal 19.2% of the diameter of the DB World.
  3. The Sun is 1,391,400 km in diameter.... 69.6% of the diameter of the DB World according to this theory. Furthermore, the Sun would fill 33.65% of the total volume of the DB World.
  4. The Earth orbits the Sun at an average distance of 146 million km. A distance 73x greater than the theory suggests is the diameter of the whole Dragonball World.
  5. Before travelling to Namek Bulma and Mr Popo test flight to Jupiter, which is 533 million km away from Earth at its closest, or 266.5x greater than the diameter of the DB World.

The above only accounts for our small part of the Solar System, it doesn't account for the larger and more distant parts, or indeed the other many stars in the Dragonball night sky.

4 Galaxies

The theory of the Dragonball World only containing 4 galaxies originates in the anime Dragonball Z [Episode 195].

No Caption Provided

After Goku brought Cell to King Kai's planet to self destruct and killed them both as well as Bubbles and Gregory, King Kai is taking Goku to the Grand Kai's planet and explains that he is the North Kai, there are three others (East, South and West) and the Grand Kai is their boss. King Kai says that they preside of the North, South, East and West Galaxies.

This though, is only said in the Japanese with English sub, not the English dub - which calls them "quadrants". The Daizenshuu also called them "area's" and so this is often said to be a mistranslation and that it should be "area" or "quadrant"... that's not true. King Kai uses the word Ginga 銀河 which means 'Galaxy' so translation is not an issue.

Canon

What is the issue is that this entire section of the anime is filler. More than simple filler it has no foundation in the manga whatsoever. In the manga, after Goku speaks to the others through King Kai after Cell's death at the hands of Gohan, Goku is not heard from again until Gohan speaks to Vegeta about entering the Budokai, which is 7 years later. These episodes are not included in Dragonball Kai and the "4 Galaxies" claim is entirely unsupported and is also contradicted by Dragonball Super, which shows a great many galaxies.

No Caption Provided

This section of the Dragonball Super anime is directly represented in the DBS Manga also [Chapter 13] and so is confirmed as being in Akira Toriyama's original storyboard.

Other Sourses

In the last pages of Chapter 3 of the Toriyama manga 'Jiya' (which is part of the Galactic Patrol series, along with 'Jaco The Galactic Patrolman' and Dragon Ball −(Minus): The Departure of the Fated Child, all of which is canon to Dragonball and are counted in negative chapters of the series) Jiya the Galactic Patrolman says that the Milky Way Galaxy has around 200 billion stars in it.

No Caption Provided

Conclusion

The theory that the Dragonball World is 1 million km in radius is entirely wrong. And when you consider that the Dragonball Universe has the Earth, the Moon, the Sun, Jupiter and all are in the Milky Way, which is stated to contain around 200 billion stars, it is obvious that the DB Universe is the same as our very own.

Add to those very deliberate references to the real universe, the fact that the only mention of the '4 Galaxies' theory in all of Dragonball is in a filler arc created by Toei as something to show because the manga had not started the Great Saiyaman Saga yet, and you understand that the Dragonball Universe is our Universe, just long, long before now.

No Caption Provided

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#43 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

@nemesisreloaded: When it comes to author's statement

Fan calcs are worth nothing. You can't try to "debunk" the author's statement by using calc.

1- The distance between planet vegeta and earth was never established in the anime and in the mangas. Same thing for namek and planet Frieza.

2- No, the 4 galaxies thing doesn't just come from toei, it also comes from the dragon ball official guidebook.

No Caption Provided

As you can see, the dragon ball universe has canonically 4 galaxies.

Fan calcs are worthless. People used to say that goku can lift the earth if we mesure the height and width of This object and if we apply the super saiyan multiplier......etc But they were later contradicted by DBS.

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Vegeta super saiyan can't even lift 1000 tons and before you say "It's because mageta was resisting him", no, mageta wasn't resisting him, he was caught by surprise and his reaction to vegeta's vain effort was "......", and Beerus didn't state "you can't lift him because he weighs 1000 tons and he is resisting you", no, he pretty much said "Give up, he weighs 1000 tons, you can't lift him".

-Fans were using calcs to try to prove that goku is Millions of time faster than the speed light, and yet, they were contradicted by dbs later.

No Caption Provided

Episode 124 (21 January)

A Stormy, Fierce Attack! Gohan Fights with his Back to the Wall!!

疾風怒涛の猛襲!悟飯背水の陣!!

Shippūdotōnomōshū!Gohanhaisuinojin!!

FujiTV Preview Image

Gohan's in big trouble! What's his comeback strategy?!

Gohan helps out Freeza in his fierce battle against Universe 11's Dyspo. The two are at the mercy of Dyspo's light-speed movement?!

-------------------------------------------------------------------See? When it comes to dragon ball, fan calcs are useless.

And concerning Super Shenron. They just asked the writers to draw a universe sized dragon, and they drew it with galaxies surrounding him. And jaco's statement is non-canon, since he isn't present in the mangas. Dbs is chaotic that the only way to figure it what is canon and what is not, you need to find both statement in the mangas and anime.

-Conculsion:

Toriyama's statement>Fan calcs

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#46 Posted by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio
said:

@majinblackheart

Can you do something about those guys? @mrx1122

@royal_warrior

@scotchbear

You've already warned them to not call other viners troll and yet theykeeps doing it. If only they uses arguments against those "dragon ball haters", no the just keeps spamming "You don't agree with me then you are a troll"

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#47 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@zokologue3: Why don't you go all the way to galaxy and read what the official guidebook says about how many of them are in the universe:

http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guidebooks/07-worldview.php

Jaco's statement is non canon since you can only find it in the mangas. The writers of DBS anime and DBS mangas are not the same. Toriyama gave them the scenario and they did whatever they wanted with it. How to know that something is canon or not in dbs? Well, you need to find the statement in both mangas and anime.

But using Vegetas Manga feat to say they can't lift more than that while in the Anime:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

So make up your mind about using both.

And the only thing that didn't accured in both was the lifting feat of Vegeta. You can see Jaco's statement in the manga and see a lot of galaxies when Shenron was summoned so that doesn't contradict with itself. And the infinite galaxy thing comes from the same official guidebook you trying to use for the 4 galaxy assumption.

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#48 Posted by Thekillerklok (9915 posts) - - Show Bio

I might have accidentally started this a while back...

No Caption Provided

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#49 Edited by Absol123 (37 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, the lowballing of dragon ball is a counter reaction against the fans who highball it and look down on other franchise claming that "Dragon ball is the strongest verse of all time", "Goku is multi-universal buster who travels 9999999999999999999999999999 times faster than the speed of light. No one can beat him, he solo every other verses"

Don't feel targeted, I'm not talking about everyone. But if you do, then, there are high chances that you might be part of this problem.

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#50 Posted by Kratosx64x (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@absol123: Not really. If you will put Goku against beings from saint seiya, Bastard or Sailor Moon he lacks the hax to tangle with them. Same goes for STTGL and so on and so forth. And i like other fictional works a lot better than DB like Hunter x Hunter, FMA:B, Monster, Berserk, Warcraft, Cthulhu mythos. You are right, you can use the lowest and highest showing of DB to say were they range at. Using only one of them makes for bad debates, lowballing or wanking.

There are wankers and everyone is aware of that. But going in DB content just to troll and bash on it is imo worse. Because were the others really belive what they say those guys just do that to cause chaos and make fun of ppl, which by the way is a type of bullying.