Why is the feat of Goku and Beerus shaking the universe so lowballed?

I've seen people call it large planet level, lol. Do people seriously no understand the power it takes to shake a universe? The overall DBS universe 7 is 2x our universe. The whole universe absolutely dwarfs over every galaxy, which ABSOLUTELY dwarfs over a single galaxy, which ABSOLUTELY DWARFS over a solar system, which is larger than a star, which absolutely dwarfs over a planet. And goku was capable of stalemating Beerus on the third clash, so they couldn't have been that far apart in contribution. There is no way that shaking a universe is less than galactic+ level output.

WHY? If Jin Mo Ri, Toriko, Naruto, Superman, Hulk, Silver surfer, Thanos, Galactus, etc. Did this, there would be no debate.

Because AS STATED MULTIPLE TIMES ON THIS SITE the shockwaves grew stronger the further away it got from the source. The closer you were to the clash the the weaker it was. The Earth and Bulma’s space craft was right underneath the clash and they were perfectly fine.

Now here come the highballers who will try to disapprove something that came right from the Anime.

Not really interested in this debate just a question on the bolded:

According to what is this based out of interest? DB universe has always seemed smaller tbh.

Ofc.

Outliers or inconsistent feats exist. It's highballed to high heaven. Expect people to use mental gymnastics to say it isn't otherwise.

Because its not an outlier due to Characters themselves, Story itself, episode title and authors themselves saying it. Its clearly shown that it won't happen in the future due to Goku learning to control his God Ki and being able to nullify powers working on a Universal scale.

Not saying SSG Goku is Universal but he is at the very least Multi Galactic level due to the sheer nature of shaking the very fabric of the Universe itself which would have destroyed it if he hasn't have learned how to reduce the damage.

what is an outlier is frieza destroying a planet, never happened in the original manga except for statements GG.

Haha

Because the shockwaves were clearly only universal by the time they crossed enough distance, giving the Supreme Kais and their planet universal durability XD.

Actual answer is because Akira Toriyama and Toei have no understanding of the laws of physics, nor do they care. The feat was performed intended to portray one thing but, the actual science behind what would've had to occur for the feat to take place the way it did is a muddled mess. Thus the feat is easily manipulated to suit whichever debater's agenda. Are SSG Goku and Beerus multi galactic + due to what was clearly depicted and narrated on screen? Or is the feat unquantifiable due to Toei not fully understanding the physics or lack thereof for their depiction?

@shenron007:

It was actually shown in the history of bardock was actually canon.

I've seen more people highballing this feat than those lowballing. According to them SSB can destroy 50 universes with a few punches smh.

@stormking1221: its not their ignorance, they clearly stated it didnt work like a normal shockwave. equating the feat to tanking a universal shockwave is just stupid and only people that willfully ignore the explanation given can do so.

@drpepperman: that feat is actually sub-human level if we ignore every other battle in DB.

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2: Lol the Supreme Kais tanking the universal shockwave was 100% me joking. But, there being a discrepency between what Toei/Akira were trying to portray is very much so a thing.

On one hand you are correct, the shockwaves didn't work like normal shockwaves. But at the same time you had the narrator, several characters, and the very next episode trying to portray Goku and Beerus as Multi Galactic.

I'm not giving an opinion either way on which line of thinking to follow but, to deny with absolute certainty one viewpoint when two viewpoints were given is not the right way to go.

Because they don't want goku to beat their favourite character which will lead to the mentally retarded goku fans who think he's omnipotent, which people say is the fanbase, in being right against them

@stormking1221: They are at least multi galactic for sure. Its just that the power they use to cause such destruction is useless in combat.

If your going to ask that question. Then you must also asked why that feat is highballed so much?

There's a certain phrase debaters must always have in mind. And that's, "Never take things at face value". It's easy for the narrator or whoever to say so and so fought and could've destroyed the Universe. But without context of the situation, your basically opening a can of worms.

It was stated that the shockwaves became stronger as they traveled. And that goes beyond Goku or Beerus' actions in that instance as they didn't cause that to happen. Another thing is that you can't use that instance to say either SSG Goku or Beerus individually are Universal busters either, because those shockwaves were created through combined effort, not just one or the other's strength.

In my eyes, Goku and Beerus fighting in the stratosphere only really proved them to be multi-galactic to potential Universe level through logical analyzing.

Not even remotely the same, and Frieza destroying planet vegeta is legit canon and has been referenced several times even in the newer canon movies and in DBS.

because it's unquantifiable

@thedeathstar: Well universe have billions of trillions Galaxies.

The results doesn't add up. Think about it.

• The shockwave never weakens. Eventually, it will reach universal in range.
• The damage scales to the range. The further the range the stronger, it should be. The closer the range, the weaker it should be.
• There is no alternate dimension/plane of existence in a Dragon Ball Universe. Dragon Ball Heaven, Hell, Earth, Beerus's home planet/Whis's training ground, Supreme Kai's place, King Kai's place, Frieza's spaceship, etc. should be in the same plane.
• Some of areas listed above were shown and took no damage.

If you personally asked me, the Goku-Beerus feat's damage potential should be continental to star level, and the range should be solar system to galaxy.

does it even matter ? seconds latter beerus nulified an explosion that was universal

It mainly matters if you're trying to prove Super Saiyan God Goku is a universe buster. Beerus has other universal feats to rely on. At least in the manga.

@metaljimmor: such as?

@shenron007:

The universal energy negation, as mentioned. As well as his fight with Champa in which two universes were nearly destroyed.

@metaljimmor: so basically just statements and no universes destroyed.

@shenron007:

Yes, but that isn't my point. Beerus has more than the shockwave thing to work with if you want to argue he's universal. SSG Goku only has the irregular shockwaves.

Some people just can't handle fiction, they try to apply science and logic to something that isn't possible. Hence why people turn stupid and rationality goes out the window.

They’re at least multi galaxy at that time and there’s been way too many statements pertaining to them being universal from just other episodes and such to just all be ignored and not call them universal at this point

They can’t destroy a universe because there’s only 12 of them so they’d be literally killing billions and that’s not something goku wants to do at all so all they can have is statements from literally everyone that makes them universal

It would be an outlier if it only was stated one time by one character but in the same episodes it was stated multiple times by multiple different people and in episodes much later they also have statements backing them up as well from vados and kefla and such

it's funny people continue to impose their own ideas on a story they have no part in creating it makes debates with them pointless as your arguing what's happening and their arguing their viewpoint.

for example

the narrator, a kaioshin, the author, other chars say: the clash between goku and beerus will destroy the universe

comic vine poster: i think it's galactic because according to physics and my opinion.......

It makes debates a crap fest because people think their opinion supersedes the story. I just ignore these people.

cuz goku wasent consistent with his power since

Because That damn feat done by 2 person not 1.

And Shaking Universe Waaaaay lower than Busting a Universe.

@galactic_1000: it wasn't just one universe.

@shenron007: You are counting those dimensions as Universe ??

@galactic_1000: 1/10 of a universe still pretty much extremelly large lol.

@shenron007: 1/10th Universe is nonsense it's based on a not to scale diagram of the Universe.

Its at the very least multi Galactus as a universe consists of billions of galaxies and shaking billions of galaxies would require multi galactic busting strength.

A Dragon Ball universe is made of 3 sections, a "mortal" realm, a "divine" realm, and an observer realm with the Kaioshin. This whole is still a single universe.

This is not a macroverse, which is a universe than is in the range of higher order infinity, or even trans-infinity. An example of this would be a universe that contains an infinite number of universes which contain an infinite number of time lines, a multiverse of dimensions in a single macroverse.

Our own universe's volume is the same as Dragon Ball's "mortal" realm, but our universe may contain as many as 11 spacial dimensions instead of the experienced 3 and time, making our universe far more vast and deep than the Dragon Ball "mortal" realm and than we can perceive.

This goes onto the feat itself, and yes, it is still a feat.

The feat doesn't mean that Goku can destroy half a universe, however, as the effects of the wave increased with distance, suggesting something like a resonance cascade. The power of the strikes were disabling the natural order of the universe.

The closest thing we can compare this to in real life is a vacuum catastrophe. The cause of a vacuum catastrophe is because the vacuum energy of the universe is meta-stable, like a diamond at room temperature. It is unstable, but in order to reach that lower level of power to make it actually stable, you need to add much more energy to it. In the case of a diamond, if you heat it up massively, it breaks down into normal graphite. In the case of the universe, if you add enough energy, or somehow pull enough energy out to jump to the lowering state, the vacuum energy will drop to its real stable point, releasing all the bound energy from the universe, and a sphere of obliteration would instantly form, traveling outward at the speed of light as it triggers more vacuum energy to reach true stability. The sphere obliterating all existing physics as it travels outwards, giving everyone that it consumes no warning as they cease to exist at the speed of light as they are consumed by a sphere of destruction.

So not only, did Goku contribute half the energy to almost cause this complete cascade breakdown of the universe, he then was able to nullify any further damage. While the process is probably different for the physics of Dragon Ball, lacking a speed of causality, that would actually made a vacuum catastrophe more dangerous, as it is the speed of light/causality in our universe that prevents it from consuming all existence.

He may not be a universe buster, but that doesn't make him not a threat to a universe.

@nilok: Our Universe is made of 11 Space Time dimensions via M Theory.26D via Bosonic String theory.

If we follow Multiversal 11D that would be more different.

Ya, that's why I like to say spacial dimensions (2d square,3d cube,4d tesseract) to try and differentiated it from the other 11 dimensional infinity which does fit the description of macroverse.

@nilok: Well We Don't know if DB even follow Any String theory.

@galactic_1000: We don't, all we know is the moral realm has the same 3D volume as our universe.

I would argue that the Dragon Ball universe doesn't have that deep level physics as their universe is maintained by divine beings and orders instead of high dimensional effects. So far, the mortal realm seems to be limited to three spacial dimensions and two dimensions of time (time travel exists).

You don't need string theory to explain time if you have a god and a bird that simply creates time.

A universe is almost always defined as 4D spacetime in any theory (tesseract is more of 4D space). We can at least assume this throughout any fictional reality (unless explicitly stated otherwise).

There are multiple multiverse theory right now but none of them have actual experimental evidence to prove superior to another. M Theory is just the one that has the biggest picture by building on the rest, but is also the most uncertain because if any of the constituent theories are proven wrong, it is also proven wrong.

The fictional adaptation of the many-worlds interpretation (the timeline branch one) only requires 5 dimensions. Different writers have different ideas (sometimes multiple) of their multiverse, so using physics is quite pointless to me. What we can do is to analyse the context within the franchise, and classify them into universe, multiverse, megaverse etc etc. In the case of DBS, clearly the "megaverse" would be the sum of all timelines. In other franchises, timeline is within a universe.

Debating over "how big" the universe is is also pointless because 2x 4x or 10x one is relative to another is very insignificant on the universe scale. Writers and us alike do not have the capacity to comprehend such minute differences when compared to literally infinite in difference. If you really want, try comprehending how spacetime itself can expand first.

Personally I like to avoid using macroverse because it can mean different things in different context. Sometimes it can mean just a planet only. I prefer going back to the uni-multi-mega hierarchy to make comparisons across franchise easier. There is really no need to intentionally use macroverse to make it sound a bit larger than universes of other franchises.

@revold: I agree to trying to avoid macroverses, that is why whenever I talk about dimensions I specify spacial to avoid the madness that leads from the infinite possibility dimensions.

The reasons I brought it up is because some people mistitle a Dragon Ball universe as a "macroverse" because it has segmented sections, and I needed to explain how it isn't.

Edit: Since I think there has been confusion on what I was talking about when I say 11 (10+1) dimensions, as some people ascribe that to a multiverse or macroverse, this may help explain what I'm talking about: