There is No proof of Saiyan Beyond God

@rukelnikovftw: Pretty sure he's referring to the final attack Goku punched away at the end of the fight, which would supposedly incinerate anything that came close to it. That attack was never stated to be universal, or even multi-galaxy for that matter.

DBZ fans reading this.

@gunsnroses23: Lmao, I have a feeling my notifications will be flooded within the next hour.

They said the same thing about SS3 and look where we are

@nemesisreloaded: Whis and Elder Kai were reffering their previous beam struggle not the one at the end of the fight.

@thedarkpaladin: Explosion from their last beam struggle was visible in another dimension outside the universe. And Beerus converted that into his Sphere of Destruction. Thats low multi-galaxy and then Beerus add even more power into it.

@gaoron: How does that indicate the attack was multi-galaxy level? Even the sphere itself was bright enough to be seen from the Kaioshin realm, but the luminosity doesn't necassarily correlate with destructive capacity.

It was created in the exact same way as the last one, and looked very similar, just bigger...

@rukelnikovftw: They didn't look anything like each other, and the condensed energy attack was not only producing the same universal shockwaves as their punches, but was also stated to be the third and final clash by Old Kai, whereas the sphere of destruction was never mentioned to be universal, multi-galaxy, or even galaxy level, which makes sense, considering an extremely worn out base Goku was able to punch it away.

@thedarkpaladin: Explosion must be multi-galaxy to be seen like that outside the universe. And what are you talking about sphere was never visible in Kaioshin Realm, its too small. Even galaxy sized object would not be seen and sphere was not even Moon sized.

@gaoron:

Explosion must be multi-galaxy to be seen like that outside the universe.

There was no explosion during their final clash, let alone a multi-galactic explosion. That would have completely obliterated the not only the earth, but the milky way itself.

And what are you talking about sphere was never visible in Kaioshin Realm, its too small.

When the sphere first formed, the light it was producing was visible:

Even galaxy sized object would not be seen and sphere was not even Moon sized.

The light produced from the clash of energy was visible, and all it did was engulf the planet. Even when Beerus nullified the condensed energy, the light could be seen from the Kaioshin before it completely engulfed the planet:

Am I the only one who realizes that base Vegeta didn't "stomp" Gotenks, Commeson (the Superhuman Water) did? The same superhuman water that had absorbed countless others power into its own? The same superhuman water that was claimed to increase power "ten thousand fold?"

While that may be an exaggeration, there was certainly a power increase. Combine that with Gotenks being a joke character and you have some serious BS on your hands.

The water fought evenly with Goku, if it were stronger than Goku it would have won

Yeah, misinterpreted which one you were talking about

@thedarkpaladin: Yeah that light, i just didnt know how to name it properly so i called it explosion.

This light represents how big explosion is gonna be. Light from their first clash didnt only appear in Kaioshin Realm, it covered whole realm cause it was macroversal level blast. Its not the case with their final clash. Light didnt cover the realm, it was only visible in there so it wasnt macroversal only multi-galaxy (low end) or universal (high end, highly doubt it). Light slowly faded away and completly dissapeared cause Beerus converted that into his sphere.

@gaoron: The light produced from the condensed energy was flooding the Kaioshin realm before it expanded, though. Back when it was still smaller than the earth. I'm not sure how the luminosity indicates its destructive capacity.

@thedarkpaladin: Im pretty sure that was already the explosion, not the light that comes before it.

Thats how Toei portraits aoe of the blast i think. Its weird but it actually shows how strong the blast is, not only statements like in Z.

There's also no proof of Saiyan Beyonf God notbeing a thing too, while Heroes has concrete evidence of the transformation to exist.(insert troll face here)

The fact that the other Z-Fighters can sense Goku when he's in base form or SSJ 1-3 but not when he goes SSJB is pretty good evidence that he isn't using god ki in base.

He used normal SS to deflect Whis blast. Base Goku and normal gold super saiyans are all above anything in Z apparently.

@gaoron: Dont forget Whis trains Goku and Vegeta in their lowest forms, so his blast would not have been too strong.

@nemesisreloaded: yeah but it still contradicts existence of Saiyan beyond god form

@gaoron: Why? Whis never uses full power, if he did even SSB Kaioken x10 Goku would be toast. There's nothing that shows how much Ki Whis is putting into that attack. If Whis is capable holding a cake without crushing it, he's capable of reducing his ki to base Goku levels.

I'm honestly surprised that no one mentioned that base Goku got hurt by a normal bullet. This seems to be the strongest piece of evidence that there is no "Saiyan beyond god" as that requires Goku to always have god ki in base form. If base Goku was as strong as SSJ God, then the bullet should have harmlessly bounced off him, unless 6-9 months of (relatively) normal farming just destroys someone's power level.

That's what Super has been doing since RoF

@rukelnikovftw:

Wow, I didn't know Goku was going into the Universe Survival Tournament with such a massive handicap. Hell, Goku can't even stop at the Hyperbolic Time Chamber after Vegeta destroyed it to try and get his strength back. You would think with Goku only being slightly stronger that Krillin was before his training, that we could get someone stronger like Yamcha.

Why do you think they are bringing Roshi?

Because Chiao Tsu wasn't available