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#1 Posted by Beast_mode999 (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

stop going based off fan theory...

Never was it stated or shown Goku she'd divine Ki against Frieza nor where was it stated shown that he used divine Ki against Ssj3 Gotenks.

In fact the Z fights could still sense Goku's Ki when he fought Frieza in base.

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#2 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting.

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#3 Posted by Gaoron (8965 posts) - - Show Bio

@beast_mode999: SSB can be sensed too, Frieza could sense his ki, Hit could etc.

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#4 Posted by Omega_kai (3162 posts) - - Show Bio

Saiyan beyond god is real. Especially in the movies.

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#5 Posted by Beast_mode999 (2588 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by jplaya2023 (769 posts) - - Show Bio

there is no such thing as a 2 base theory.

super just has wacky powerscaling in which base vegeta is multifolds stronger than ssj3 gotenks

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#7 Edited by FreshFlintstone (1227 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok.. base Vegeta still mops gotenks so it doesn't really matter if its god ki or their regular ki Point is their base is stronger god ki or not

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#8 Posted by lettsplay10 (20589 posts) - - Show Bio

I am the proof

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#9 Posted by JohnCena69swag (3957 posts) - - Show Bio

Makes more sense than the other fan theory that gives ridiculous amps to anyone who fights Goku or Vegeta.

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#10 Posted by Gaoron (8965 posts) - - Show Bio

@beast_mode999: Proof of what? That they sense SSB? Frieza said "Based on the Ki that I' m sensing I can tell that I'm much stronger" when Goku transformed and Hit was counting how much Goku is getting stronger when he do kaioken on top of SSB.

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#11 Edited by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, Saiyan Beyond God is not canon to the anime or manga as of now.

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#12 Posted by Thekillerklok (10052 posts) - - Show Bio

That moment when you have no idea what anyone is talking about anymore...

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#13 Edited by EdBeatle (1172 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

You'll debate this don't you? Interpret this as you want.

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#14 Posted by Beast_mode999 (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

@edbeatle: this is a picture of Base Goku misusing Whis...

This is LITTERALLY the only type of proof I've received from people. Just random pictures of Base Goku and them saying that he was using God Ki.

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#15 Posted by EdBeatle (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

@beast_mode999: So they just added the SSG at the back because he looked nice? Huh.. look at that

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#16 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17987 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree there is no evidence in the dragon ball super anime, but I don't accept any power scaling in the dragon ball super anime so it doesn't matter to me anymore, lol.

dragon ball super has the worst power scaling of all time and can't be taken seriously.

As for saiyan beyond god, it was confirmed by Toei and other media, however it's not specified if they have to power up into the form, or if their base is always in that form.

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#17 Posted by RukelnikovFTW (6142 posts) - - Show Bio

stop going based off fan theory...

Never was it stated or shown Goku she'd divine Ki against Frieza nor where was it stated shown that he used divine Ki against Ssj3 Gotenks.

In fact the Z fights could still sense Goku's Ki when he fought Frieza in base.

You mean that goku became universal at base without an asspull amp??

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#18 Posted by midnightdragon18 (9869 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: look at the picture posted above

That's all the proof you need

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#19 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17987 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: look at the picture posted above

That's all the proof you need

Yes, that proves Goku kept god power in his base. What this guy is saying is the 2 base theory isn't true, and that base Goku is always at the "saiyan beyond god level". So basically he is saying Saiyan beyond god isn't real, their normal bases are just god tier now. However that would mean all universe 6 fighters and Piccolo are now god tier, or at least close to it.

For the sake of logical powerscaling I like to think of saiyan beyond god as a powered up god version of base, just like how SSB is a powered up god version of ssj.

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#20 Edited by EdBeatle (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: by that logic his base should be god level all the time right? Thing that doesn't explain Goku actually needing to go to a god form to defeat Mirai Trunks in the spare match and going by the one base logic Mirai is already at god levels just by that little match.

So we do know Goku kept god ki in base by the picture above, we also know he still can access it to go above SSJ3 for the spare match, so unless you're saying Goku has god ki power activated and deactivated at the same time there's no much to argue.

No Caption Provided

While we don't know exactly the difference between SSG and the god ki base version, you can't say Goku can't access god ki without going SSG, Goku has two base forms now.

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#21 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17987 posts) - - Show Bio

@edbeatle:

by that logic his base should be god level all the time right? Thing that doesn't explain Goku actually needing to go to a god form to defeat Mirai Trunks in the spare match and going by the one base logic Mirai is already at god levels just by that little match.

The dragon ball super manga is different than the anime and movies. In the manga Goku never absorbs god ki in his base. The RoF manga is based off the RoF movie and isn't a part of the super manga.

So we do know Goku kept god ki in base by the picture above, we also know he still can access it to go above SSJ3 for the spare match, so unless you're saying Goku has god ki power activated and deactivated at the same time there's no much to argue.

Not really sure what you are trying to say here.

In the super anime Goku can't go SSG anymore and his base is now above ssj3. In the super manga his base is still buu saga tier and he can go ssj1,2,3, SSG, and SSB.

While we don't know exactly the difference between SSG and the god ki base version, you can't say Goku can't access god ki without going SSG,

The difference is in the anime he has god ki base and in the manga he just has SSG. Or at least that's what it seems like. In a BoG interview Toriyama said Goku won't need SSG anymore because he absorbed the power. However the manga version of super seemed to have taken away that plot point and now he can just go SSG.

Goku has two base forms now.

Yes, I agree with you here. In the anime and movies Goku can power up to saiyan beyond god.

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#22 Posted by EdBeatle (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:

The dragon ball super manga is different than the anime and movies. In the manga Goku never absorbs god ki in his base. The RoF manga is based off the RoF movie and isn't a part of the super manga.

While they're different, they still share part of the main canonicity and even when RoF is a oneshot it was still written by Toriyama making it canon like DB Minus or manga version of History of Trunks and it also doesn't contradict any main point for the main story.

In the super anime Goku can't go SSG anymore and his base is now above ssj3. In the super manga his base is still buu saga tier and he can go ssj1,2,3, SSG, and SSB.

Any prove of anime Goku not being able to go SSG? That still doesn't explain how if his base is god levels then how he needed to go SSJ3 in anime to defeat Mirai at such levels of power just in base.

Yes, I agree with you here. In the anime and movies Goku can power up to saiyan beyond god.

Cool man, then we should be only discussing the canonicity of RoF oneshot instead of bringing anime statements here to check if we can use the Saiyan beyond god of it or not.

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#23 Edited by AlexTheBoss (17987 posts) - - Show Bio

@edbeatle:

While they're different, they still share part of the main canonicity and even when RoF is a oneshot it was still written by Toriyama making it canon like DB Minus or manga version of History of Trunks and it also doesn't contradict any main point for the main story.

The RoF manga is almost exactly the same as the move panel for panel. It didn't even get a conclusion, it just tells you to watch the movie to see what happens. The RoF manga is just a manga adaptation of RoF and should be considered more of a part of the movie continuity.

Super has three continuities. The movies, the anime, and the manga. All have different power scaling.

Any prove of anime Goku not being able to go SSG?

Pretty much just Toriyama saying they won't need it anymore and they have never used it since.

That still doesn't explain how if his base is god levels then how he needed to go SSJ3 in anime to defeat Mirai at such levels of power just in base.

I know, I'm pretty sure I already told you I agree with the two base theory...

Cool man, then we should be only discussing the canonicity of RoF oneshot instead of bringing anime statements here to check if we can use the Saiyan beyond god of it or not.

It is to the movie.

And logically it should be in the anime too since base Vegeta can oneshot ssj3 Gotenks who should be at the very least in the same tier as ssj2 future Trunks, but Goku went ssj2 to fight future Trunks.

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#24 Posted by EdBeatle (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:

The RoF manga is almost exactly the same as the move panel for panel. It didn't even get a conclusion, it just tells you to watch the movie to see what happens. The RoF manga is just a manga adaptation of RoF and should be considered more of a part of the movie continuity.

The thing is that there's no RoF arc in manga, they just mentioned it, there's no reason to leave out the RoF manga as it doesn't contradict the main plot of the rest as much as BoG, U6 or Mirai Trunks arcs in the manga with the anime.

Pretty much just Toriyama saying they won't need it anymore and they have never used it since.

He also said that with god forms Goku would never power up to SSJ2 or SSJ3 again but hey, we've seen them in both anime and manga., that doesn't mean Goku can't or won't use it again.

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#25 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17987 posts) - - Show Bio

@edbeatle:

The thing is that there's no RoF arc in manga, they just mentioned it, there's no reason to leave out the RoF manga as it doesn't contradict the main plot of the rest as much as BoG, U6 or Mirai Trunks arcs in the manga with the anime.

The only thing it contradicts is Goku keeping god ki in base, though you could just say Goku didn't feel like using god ki in his base in the tournament or against Trunks.

He also said that with god forms Goku would never power up to SSJ2 or SSJ3 again but hey, we've seen them in both anime and manga., that doesn't mean Goku can't or won't use it again.

In the manga Goku seems to still have his regular base. The anime is BS, and in the movies he never went ssj again.

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#26 Posted by EternalGrandMaster (426 posts) - - Show Bio

@beast_mode999: I love yo bro.....I've literally on mutiple occasions here & other forums straight up shît this stupid theory down.....The shit is non cannon it's not even real....DBZ Heroes came up with the bullshit but it's not real or cannon

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#27 Posted by Beast_mode999 (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternalgrandmaster:

No prob man love the community but after like 5 months on Comicvine I've started to see why DBZ gets a bad rap

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#28 Posted by EdBeatle (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:

The only thing it contradicts is Goku keeping god ki in base, though you could just sayGoku didn't feel like using god ki in his base in the tournament or against Trunks.

Just as much as it'd happen in the anime yes.

In the manga Goku seems to still have his regular base. The anime is BS, and in the movies he never went ssj again.

Well, at the end is not like movies will have the opportunity to show SSJ anyway

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#29 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17987 posts) - - Show Bio

@edbeatle:

Just as much as it'd happen in the anime yes.

but in the super manga Goku never drops out of his god form and it is never stated he absorbed the power.

Well, at the end is not like movies will have the opportunity to show SSJ anyway

True, but it seemed like ssj didn't do much in the movies after god form. Goku was fighting Beerus in base and when he went ssj it seemed he only got a couple times stronger instead of 50.

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#30 Posted by Axolyte (18 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing about Saiyan beyond God that confuses people is that it is in the anime and was only in the Resurrection F Manga, but NOT in the new Dragon Ball Super manga.

Saiyan beyond God is only in the Super anime, it is not in the manga.

In the manga, Goku actually enters his original Super Saiyan God state with red hair and the like instead of having a state like Saiyan beyond God. Same goes for Vegeta, except we never saw him use the red haired state.

In the Super manga, characters are weaker. Cabba is stronger than Vegeta's base, but Vegeta's base is NOT Saiyan beyond God because it doesn't exist in the manga.

In the manga, Full Power Hit is equal to Super Saiyan God Goku but is weaker than SSJ Blue Goku.

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#31 Posted by KwasiD2k (844 posts) - - Show Bio

Only OP ppl can sense SSB, so it still rings tru.

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#32 Posted by RehBeh (170 posts) - - Show Bio

Freeza was able to sense God Ki but Piccolo couldn't. I call bulshit on the writers on this.

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#33 Posted by lettsplay10 (20589 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by RukelnikovFTW (6142 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by Gaoron (8965 posts) - - Show Bio

@rehbeh: Hit could sense it too but it was never showed he has god ki.

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#36 Posted by Beast_mode999 (2588 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Edited by HeavenlyDarkDragon (2219 posts) - - Show Bio

@beast_mode999:

We all know that when Goku first went to SSG that that power eventually receded back into him. But that power had been awakened and would eventually affect his other transformations.

The simpliest example was the fact he was able to fight Beerus for a while in his normal SSJ1 form and still he didn't even noticed he wasn't any more in SSG. Which showed the immediate effect of having awakened the SSG power. What he hadn't been able to do in SSJ3 he then was able to do in simple SSJ1.

Eventually he was able to go to SSG form on his own, and continued his fight with Beerus in that form until the end.

Now against Frieza it was said by a lot of people that the SSB form allowed people to sense his Ki. But recently that's been contradicted. When he ordered an assassination contract on himself so he could fight Hit one on one, the moment he goes SSB neither Piccolo, Gohan or Goten can sense his Ki anymore. Piccolo clearly states this by saying and I quote "His Ki has disappeared, which means he most have gone SSB" so in this quote Piccolo shattered the idea that Frieza could sense Goku's Ki. At least in SSB.

Before. When it was the Frieza situation, I believed because SSB, is basically SSG power added to the normal SSJ1, that Frieza could only sense the SSJ1 part of SSB. But now we got the confirmation that while in SSB no one that hasn't got godly Ki can sense the Ki of that form.

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#38 Posted by RehBeh (170 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaoron: So that leads me to believe that if the writers want someone to sense god ki he will. Or they don't know what their doing.

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#39 Posted by tcrighton (192 posts) - - Show Bio

So... during the universe 6 & 7 tournament, when Goku is fighting Frost, does this base form have God Ki or regular Ki? I'm inclined to believe regular because he transforms into a yellowed-haired Super Saiyan, not SSJB.

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#40 Edited by JohnCena69swag (3957 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by Gaoron (8965 posts) - - Show Bio

@tcrighton: regular base form, it doesnt make any sense for Goku and Vegeta to use God powers before fight with Hit (and Cabba to show him god form)

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#42 Edited by RukelnikovFTW (6142 posts) - - Show Bio

@beast_mode999 said:

@rukelnikovftw:

Goku isn't a Universe buster at all lol

Goku one shotted an universal attack, at base, and almost passing out from strain

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#43 Posted by Beast_mode999 (2588 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by RukelnikovFTW (6142 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by Beast_mode999 (2588 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by RukelnikovFTW (6142 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Edited by Beast_mode999 (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

@rukelnikovftw:

He wasn't referring to that attack at that point dude. Also character statments =/= fact

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#48 Edited by RukelnikovFTW (6142 posts) - - Show Bio

@rukelnikovftw:

He wasn't referring to that attack at that point dude. Also character statments =/= fact

Both attacks were created in the same fashion (KHH clashing with Beerus energy attack)

Goku said he was gonna use more power than on the first time

After Goku powered up Beerus said "this won't be as easy to absorb"

Both energy attacks looked similar but the second one on a much bigger scale

And regarding statements =/= facts, this was after they almost torn the universe by punching, KHH > punching

That scene was Goku basically replicating Beerus feat of stopping an universal energy attack

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#49 Posted by Gaoron (8965 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by NemesisReloaded (1530 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

This also happens in the anime when Beerus points it out. It just doesn't happen in the manga.

You also have to remember that if Goku is using God Ki in base the other characters would still be able to sense his base Ki, but not the God Ki. If they could sense the God Ki, they'd probably have a stroke on sensing the size of it.

Also, in the anime, when Goku describes SSB as a Super Saiyan God that is a Super Saiyan, Frieza says "you've just turned Super Saiyan". Goku tells Frieza to show him the fruits of his labours after turning SSB and Frieza just attacks Goku again in his previous final form. Fireza says "I was just gauging your power. I wanted to see if you were truely good enough to show the results of my efforts". Then before he transforms, Frieza says "However, based on what I've learned, I will tell you this in advance... you will find this battle to be quite harsh." [DBS Ep 25]

Frieza cannot sense God Ki or any kind of Ki at all.

@gaoron said:

@beast_mode999: @rukelnikovftw: There is no direct proof that Sphere of Destruction is universal, its multi-galaxy.

Both Whis and Elder Kai describe it as large enough to destroy the universe.