Overlooked SSJ3 Goku Feat

So, I was rewatching the DBZ Anime in the subbed version, and during it, an extra interesting statement came to mind again most don't seem to even be aware of due to most people's anime experience being the dub.

The most commonly regarded feat of this transformation is "oh wow, SSJ3 Goku's Ki can even be sensed in the Kaioshin Realm", which is cool and all, but Kibito adds another key detail.

Kibito actually outright says that the power exerted by SSJ3's transformation literally reaches the Kaioshin Realm from Earth.

From what we've been throughout the entire series, we know that this is completely independent of sensing his Ki. His ki signature that they sense, no matter it's size, is on the Earth as him, it's not physically travelling to or reaching the Kaioshin Realm, it's just not how Ki sensing or raising one's Ki works at all.

Gohan himself also clarifies in reference to Ki sensing, Goku's Ki signature that they feel is on Earth, so we know that Kibito's remark of power physically reaching the Kaioshin Realm is unrelated to them sensing his Ki, which is just on Earth.

So, now that sensing Ki has been ruled out for this detail in particular, what could this "power" of Goku's that reaches the Kaioshin Realm be?

For that, moments earlier we're given an interestingly similar statement with the same wording:

Where it's downright said that this same "power" is depicted through the shaking of his surroundings caused by the transformation (something we've been seeing in DB since day 1), which makes sense, as the shaking is literally the only external physical showcase of SSJ3 Goku's power present that could be correlated to Kibito's statement.

In conclusion, not only is SSJ3 Goku's Ki felt throughout universal distances, but the power exerted from his transformation also causes violent shaking across the DBZ universe and it's multiple dimensions.

The shaking of the Kaioshin Realm obviously isn't literally shown as the Kaioshin Realm is never shown during his transformation and is only gone to after Goku's transformation is complete. This statement is seemingly purposefully done as more of a sudden, shock value "You thought only the Earth shook? Nah, even the Kaioshin Realm was being shaken" statement for a dramatized reveal after the fact, based on the timing. Whatever the case is, the fact still stands that Kibito states the shaking that represents the power of SSJ3 reaches the Kaioshin Realm.

This feat also happens just as clearly in the Manga as well:

Herms translating it exactly the same:

This on it's own, indicates that in the manga as well, the tremors from his transformation reached the Kaioshin Realm.

As some extra insight, how about cross referencing this to other similarly worded instances in DB?

In this scene, Jiren powers up (exactly how Goku did when he was transforming into SSJ3), and this is stated:

Where when Jiren powers up in a scene in the exact same manner as Goku and shakes the ToP arena, the description of this feat is the exact same as SSJ3 Goku, down to the kanji used to indicate the shaking physically reaching a certain point (both instances use the wording "todoke", which denotes physically reaching somewhere or something. That alone also proves it is not related to Ki sensing, and is in fact, some form of shaking).

And as just a little extra food for thought, the games that depict Chapter 280/Episode 245 Goku from this scene also iterate that SSJ3 Goku shakes the universe (not saying to apply this to the anime/manga unanimously, since it's a game, but it works as supplementary evidence, since it is simply referencing what happened in the source material itself and establishing the interpretation the DB franchise itself takes from it, which definitely means something).

This is quite the feat for DBZ Goku imo, I believe this actual feat far surpassess statements such as Cell destroying the solar system, and even most of the DBZ Anime/Movie feats as well (this feat is quite possibly>the Fusion Reborn feat of shaking Otherworld as well, however you interpret those feats).

@gelato_exotic: Nice with all the garou madness going on.

another W for DB

now i can finally use this:

...Is what I wish were true. Unfortunately both fanbases seem to be going at each others throats.

i guess its better than the garou feats and its more clear in details

@gelato_exotic: The feat for goku going SSJ3 in the anime is just like the FR movie, but it on a lower level. Since we know for sure that SSJ3 was shaking two universe size realms in FR due to Grand kai being affect. It still a good feat none the less and that places at multi solar system +.

@lordragoon: It's not just the anime, this feat is in the manga as well with the exact same wording and context. It is a feat for manga DBZ too and proves that even the canon characters are far above just solar system level.

@gelato_exotic: I was mostly referring to anime in my post. But yeah, goku ssj3 feat places canon SSJ3 tier at multi solar system +. Although, top tiers like super vegito and buutenks w/h mystic gohan adsorbed should be around multi solar system ++.

Kid buu is the only one on-screen we see wiping out countless planets and star systems. Actual feats backing it up his lore/history and current. He is truly deserving of being placed on the tier os SS level+.
https://www.abload.de/img/galaxybusterelb9t.gif



@gelato_exotic said:

"universe size realm"?
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Sacred_World_of_the_Kai#Overview

It says nothing about being such size. Don't make up stuff.

So SS3 Goku has finally reached the level of Thor and Hercules?

Ssj3 Goku is around multi solar system if we scale him of Perfect cell

@sirdragonfly:

nice feat,

Goku's SSJ3, feat is a multiverse while thor and hercules is a universe unless they talking about the whole marvel verse xd.

@madarauchiha103: I have no idea what you're even arguing, there's no such thing as "sending Ki" in such a manner. And it's pretty ironic to bring up comprehension, while somehow misinterpreting Gohan literally saying the Ki is "on Earth" to "coming from Earth."

@madarauchiha103:That wasn't your comment though, unless you worded it badly or something you seemingly based that off of Gohan's dialogue on it's own. At any rate, Kibito never says specifically that it was his Ki reaching there (I still have no idea what you even mean by this, care to elaborate?) and uses a completely different phrase, and it being Ki is an interpretation contradicted by Gohan's dialogue, and the simple fact Ki signatures don't propagate outside of someone.

Oh boy

I disagree with your interpretation. Resurrection F made it clear that bigger kis can be sensed from further distances. This was how Goku locked onto Frieza for instant transmission to get to Earth from Beerus' planet.

@eredin12 since the other thread was locked

Eh I feel as though this feat is being misinterpreted

it not shaking the other realm merely his ki is so vast it can be felt from there....which ngl seems like a huge outlier for his power to be felt across universes in freaking Z

He doesn't consistently reach this kind of level till BoG

I would still say SSJ3 Goku is like Galaxy level though scaling to Kid Buu who in several years vaporized an entire Galaxy ( which back before DBS retconned the cosmology, was big enough to encompass 1/4 of the Universe )

I would say that those instances aren't one in the same

On one hand characters explicitly note that they can sense their ki, but in this situation his power/energy can be physically felt and was noted as "reaching" all the way to the Kaioshin Realm.

Sensing ki would be akin to Super Buu sensing Ultimate Gohan's ki during his training.

That's fine, but this has nothing do with sensing, because as they describe, his power physically reaches and the Kaioshin Realm. Sensing power is sensing the Ki signature that is still there in that local area.

I must also add, Goku never uses someone as powerful as Frieza to teleport to Earth, in the movie he uses the Z fighters, and in the Anime, literally rusty SSJ Nerdhan that was being fodderized by the Frieza Force.

At any rate, even in this scene, it's described and shown that Gohan's Ki signature is on Earth at his position (as Ki signatures always worked), whereas in this scene, it describes the power exerted from his transformation (not his Ki being sensed) actually reaching the Kaioshin Realm, a completely different situation.

I expected people who would be interested to understand this basic aspect of Ki so I didn't, but I guess I should've explained it in the OP, but this is how Ki signatures work.

Gallery

As Goku describes, no matter how powerful they are, their Ki signature is still local to them, and the RoF scene you reference hammers this home further, so it's good that it was brought up.

There is no misinterpretation besides what you say, and as it has been explained, the power physically reaching there is completely different in nature from sensing a Ki signature at its location (literally even in this scene Gohan says that his Ki signature is on Earth, so it's clearly not that which physically reaches the Kai world). Kibito does not describe that the power on Earth can be felt from his world, but rather that the power reaches his world from Earth.

Also, I don't think this feat would be higher than multi solar system level or the lower end of galaxy level anyways at least from what people tell me and the calcs I see (but this is something I can't confirm, I don't do calcs), so even from that perspective I don't really understand what's outlierish or so incredulous about this feat (and at any rate, absolutely nothing indicates it's inconsistent or an outlier in general in the first place, and on the contrary, we're given several statements consistently putting them far above the level of his feat), it doesn't seem to change anything for most of y'all's ratings. It's mainly just to note this feat as something that's there.

lowballed: multi solar system

mid: very close to galaxy

high balled: galaxy+

Webtoon/Novel treatment: universal++

@madarauchiha103: In reality, power in this context describes the power exerted by his Ki rising (as shown with Tien's dialogue), and the showcase of this power is shown through the tremors of the environment, which is stated to have reached the Kaioshin Realm, it's quite simple. Kibito does not describe sensing (literally he says nothing about feeling or sensing), because Goku's Ki signature along with his location is on Earth, not the Kai world. Being sensed from the Kai world from Earth (your misconception) =/= actually physically reaching that place itself from Earth (what is actually described).

@madarauchiha103: Your ad nauseam spam won't merit another ad nauseam explanation that'll just go over your head again per usual. At any rate, even taking "ki=power" despite context clearly depicting the otherwise, his Ki is still described as actually reaching the Kai world itself instead of simply being sensed from the Kai world, so the argument doesn't really change.

You're better off trying to provide an alternate explanation as to what exactly from his transformation reaches the Kai world if not the tremors from Earth, as it for a fact isn't related to sensing.

The Kai world wasn't even shown until the transformation was long completed, this adds literally nothing here.

@madarauchiha103: Seriously? Do you not see how it shows them staring towards Earth already before the camera even pans to them? Ki sense would be sensing his Ki signature which is still, on Earth, not at the Kaioshin Realm, where the power is described to have actually reached at.

@madarauchiha103: Nothing there actually indicates Gohan didn't notice the transformation was complete or not notice shaking, the entire scene prior (for the Kai world perspective) is offscreen and what you're arguing is "fanfiction" as you were putting it, and on the contrary, the anime and manga both show him already staring towards the Earth and having noticed it before the camera even pans to the Kai world. Not turning his head, not noticing it afterwards, but having already noticed it and staring towards where it comes from/is before they're even shown.

@madarauchiha103:
>Ignores every single point and citation of the source material made to ad nauseam the same continually debunked comments word for word without bringing anything new to the table about them at that once again.

Yeah, I'm just gonna let people see the thread and come to their own conclusions, as to me at least clearly my points are being willingly dodged and not adequately refuted at all.

@madarauchiha103: And there you go literally proving my point above.

@gelato_exotic: They are talking about the ki signature reaching the land of the kais. Just like only a big ki can reach Beerus' planet. It isn't shaking it, and if it was shaking would be shown on panel.

@alextheboss: Ki signatures don't move, they're with/part of the person, that's the whole point. Even the RoF scenes you brought up, showed that following their Ki signatures lead them to Earth where it was, we literally see Goku searching for Gohan's ki signature to follow it to Earth, not waiting for his Ki to supposedly get big enough to supposedly travel across space to Beerus' planet, something Ki signatures literally don't do at all.

Another detail I should clarify, is that Goku literally waits for Gohan's Ki to get bigger, in order to be able to sense it and follow it to Earth, which he's able to do when it gets big enough on Earth. It's pretty self explanatory why it would be futile if the idea is that bigger ki= travels across longer ranges and Gohan's ki was traveling towards Goku from Earth instead of getting bigger on Earth.

And in case it was missed, I can clarify again, that it was made clear even in that scene that as for any ki signature, Goku's ki signature itself was on Earth.

Typically it would need to be shown sure, but here it's was no longer needed, when in a scene after the fact, we saw characters there already in shock and having noticed something before being even shown, and a direct description of the power exerted by the transformation actually reaching that place, and said power was being shown through expanding shaking.

@gelato_exotic: Goku knew the Z fighters were on Earth, and couldn't feel their ki, he felt Frieza's ki because it was easier to sense at that distance. It's made clear bigger ki signatures are easier to feel at further ranges. Like a stronger radio wave is easier to pick up from further away than a weaker one. And even if the physical ki is spreading that far, it doesn't' mean everything is shaking in that distance. It could just be reaching that far without doing anything. Also what is so impressive about Goku's feat is they are sensing his massive ki without even trying. They are an indescribable distance away, and Goku's ki is so large they are noticing it even while not looking. So unless you prove there is shaking, regardless if they are just sensing it or if the ki actually physically reached the world of the kais, it's unquantifiable.

@alextheboss: Indeed, and Frieza's Ki as well, was on the Earth, not reaching Beerus' planet. Radio waves regardless of strength actually have to travel to where receivers to be picked up (at least from what I know about it), Ki signatures are unmoving from their positions and are sensed where they are. Although I agree it is impressive for his Ki to be felt in a different dimension, no one really emphasizes that in DBZ itself in the scene, and Gohan and Shin just comment on how powerful his Ki is, and of course Kibito saying the power exerted by it reached their world.

As for it being Ki spreading that far, during the transformation, there is no leaking or spreading physical Ki shown anywhere, just the intensifying shaking, which is why I think that's what Kibito was describing, as it's what the power exerted by the transformation was shown as (if the shaking dissipated before reaching there, Kibito wouldn't of said that), hope that's clear what I meant if it wasn't earlier.

Although interestingly to expand on what you say about the Ki, something that hadn't crossed my mind or I'd even really noticed before taking another look, is that it appears that in both the manga/anime, there was an explosion of Ki (not his Ki signature, but actual Ki) when Goku outright completes the transformation (not during it)..

Huh, maybe this could be another possibility for what Kibito meant as reaching the Kai world? It's definitely between this and the tremors, but 100% not sensing for reasons I clarified that I hope make more sense now.

Edit: Although I must clarify that even though I still find the tremors to be more reasonable as it has a more clear cut connection to the descriptions of how the power exerted by the transformation was showcased, I most definitely won't object to anyone interpreting it as this (the Ki explosion shown above from his transformation supposedly encompassing the universe and reaching the Kaioshin Realm), since it could also fit the bar for being described as power exerted by the transformation, and the whole scene being offscreen. My main interest is making it clear that for a fact, he exerted power (be it the tremors, or an explosion of Ki) as far as the Kai world, and that the feat of SSJ3 here is for a fact beyond just having a big Ki signature.