Iron > Goku Striking Power

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Monmouth

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In the last episode of DBZ Super Goku's supposed "Universe quaking" blows made zero degree of dent on an iron cladded fodder foe from U6's team. What's up? What happened?

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zzagirl

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@monmouth said:

In the last episode of DBZ Super Goku's supposed "Universe quaking" blows made zero degree of dent on an iron cladded fodder foe from U6's team. What's up? What happened?

Already been explained in this thread.

Everything doesn't have to be it's own topic...

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deactivated-5b728068f211c

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Yep, BS. He can punch planetary ki blasts away but can't do sh** against iron .

What are you doing toei

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PhantomRant

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#4  Edited By PhantomRant

I'll explain if you genuinely don't understand the context here...

If you noticed, "Iron Skin Battler" is a figure of speech title used to denote his body which looks like iron. The well-known hardness of iron in real life is used to metaphorically describe the hardness of Chappil's body. It could be that Chappil's iron-like body is enhanced with ki or that the iron material in the universe is of a much harder substance.

Same with titles like "Speed-of-Sound" Sonic and "Lightspeed Flash" from OPM, when Sonic is actually way faster than soundspeed and Flash is way slower than lightspeed.

Same as why Bleach's Hierro (Iron/Steel Skin) and Gremmy hardening his body to steel doesn't mean shinigami like Ichigo and Zaraki struggle to cut through steel, especially when we see the latter leveling buildings with a shockwave. It just means the well-known hardness of "steel" is used to describe the hardness of their bodies, which is obviously way harder than normal steel.

This is a common occurrence in comics.

Goku has numerous feats starting with when he was a kid where he was damaging material of at least comparable durability.

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jasonhitto

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#5  Edited By jasonhitto

Even sttgl cant put a dent to that armor

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Aimless

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That's like saying superman is as durable as steel when they said "man of steel".

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Mortein

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This Guy>Goku

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Dragonvegeta123

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Vegeta>>all types of metal

He broke something that was stronger than that

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midnightdragon18

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@aimless said:

That's like saying superman is as durable as steel when they said "man of steel".

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Thedarkpaladin

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The GoD pretty much confirmed Chappil's skin was iron:

No Caption Provided

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RukelnikovFTW

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@thedarkpaladin: Yeah... so his skin is naturally tens of times more durable than human skin..., this was already argued someplace else.

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Thedarkpaladin

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#12  Edited By Thedarkpaladin

@rukelnikovftw said:

@thedarkpaladin: Yeah... so his skin is naturally tens of times more durable than human skin..., this was already argued someplace else.

Saiyan skin is naturally far more durable than human skin. This was also argued by someone else.

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Skrskr

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@monmouth: a character with iron skin who can amp himself with ki, since we are being literal with feats now vegeta tanked a absolute zero attack from the ice guy from universe 9 team as stated by the Kai.

Since you want to take statements literally with no context

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RukelnikovFTW

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TheDeathstar

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Goku's skin is filled with flesh does that mean any regular human can pierce it? Stop with the jokes, that guy was powered by his ki, we also do not know the property of that iron substance he has. Regardless, we are talking about a being who is High Galaxy+ level in terms of striking and possibly Universal if he goes all out in this arc.

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alextheboss

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@thedeathstar: Goku doesn't have galaxy level strikes. The shockwaves got stronger as they got further away meaning the power was weakest near his actual punch. This makes no sense but it's what happened. Also that was SSG Goku. Base Goku isn't even close to that power.

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ITouchedTheBoat

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I'll explain if you genuinely don't understand the context here...

If you noticed, "Iron Skin Battler" is a figure of speech title used to denote his body which looks like iron. The well-known hardness of iron in real life is used to metaphorically describe the hardness of Chappil's body. It could be that Chappil's iron-like body is enhanced with ki or that the iron material in the universe is of a much harder substance.

Same with titles like "Speed-of-Sound" Sonic and "Lightspeed Flash" from OPM, when Sonic is actually way faster than soundspeed and Flash is way slower than lightspeed.

Same as why Bleach's Hierro (Iron/Steel Skin) and Gremmy hardening his body to steel doesn't mean shinigami like Ichigo and Zaraki struggle to cut through steel, especially when we see the latter leveling buildings with a shockwave. It just means the well-known hardness of "steel" is used to describe the hardness of their bodies, which is obviously way harder than normal steel.

This is a common occurrence in comics.

Goku has numerous feats starting with when he was a kid where he was damaging material of at least comparable durability.

I agree with this, It could very well be a title rather than an actual descriptive trait. Like Man Of Steel, or Iron Fist

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deactivated-614ce5c370323

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Obviously this guy's skin must have mutliversal+ durability without amping himself up on ki. And goku must have limited his punches to universal to not destroy the arena. If he had been amping himself on ki his punches would have been Omniversal ++ in base alone. Though the guy could amp himself on ki to make his skin Omniversal +++ so that goku would need to go SSJ to destroy him with his Omniversal +++++++++++++++++++++ punches.

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Clamps

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Gokus purely physical striking power was never that impressive to begin with.

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RukelnikovFTW

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#20  Edited By RukelnikovFTW

@jaycool2: idk if multiversal but galaxy+ probably

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TheDeathstar

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@thedeathstar: Goku doesn't have galaxy level strikes. The shockwaves got stronger as they got further away meaning the power was weakest near his actual punch. This makes no sense but it's what happened. Also that was SSG Goku. Base Goku isn't even close to that power.

Wrong. It has already been proven many times and shown in Ep.12 with statements from other characters including Whis backing it up. The Shockwave literally broke the laws of physics, your logic doesn't apply or justify its origin.

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MainJP

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Isn't Toei great?

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alextheboss

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@alextheboss said:

@thedeathstar: Goku doesn't have galaxy level strikes. The shockwaves got stronger as they got further away meaning the power was weakest near his actual punch. This makes no sense but it's what happened. Also that was SSG Goku. Base Goku isn't even close to that power.

Wrong. It has already been proven many times and shown in Ep.12 with statements from other characters including Whis backing it up. The Shockwave literally broke the laws of physics, your logic doesn't apply or justify its origin.

Like I said the shockwaves got stronger the further away they got. It's like their punches started a chain reaction or something. That doesn't mean the origin of the reaction is as strong as the result of the reaction.

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Wewlad80

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TheDeathstar

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#25  Edited By TheDeathstar

@thedeathstar said:
@alextheboss said:

@thedeathstar: Goku doesn't have galaxy level strikes. The shockwaves got stronger as they got further away meaning the power was weakest near his actual punch. This makes no sense but it's what happened. Also that was SSG Goku. Base Goku isn't even close to that power.

Wrong. It has already been proven many times and shown in Ep.12 with statements from other characters including Whis backing it up. The Shockwave literally broke the laws of physics, your logic doesn't apply or justify its origin.

Like I said the shockwaves got stronger the further away they got. It's like their punches started a chain reaction or something. That doesn't mean the origin of the reaction is as strong as the result of the reaction.

You're in denial.

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alextheboss

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@alextheboss said:

Like I said the shockwaves got stronger the further away they got. It's like their punches started a chain reaction or something. That doesn't mean the origin of the reaction is as strong as the result of the reaction.

You're in denial.

The manga pretty much already confirmed fused Zamsu is only around galaxy level, so saying SSG Goku's punches are galaxy level is absurd. Nobody weaker than Beerus is even close to universe level in DC and even Beerus can't destroy galaxies with punches. He can maybe destroy a star with one punch but the best we've seen is planet busting when him and Champa were busting planets while fighting.

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U_WOT_M8

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@thedeathstar said:
@alextheboss said:

Like I said the shockwaves got stronger the further away they got. It's like their punches started a chain reaction or something. That doesn't mean the origin of the reaction is as strong as the result of the reaction.

You're in denial.

The manga pretty much already confirmed fused Zamsu is only around galaxy level, so saying SSG Goku's punches are galaxy level is absurd. Nobody weaker than Beerus is even close to universe level in DC and even Beerus can't destroy galaxies with punches. He can maybe destroy a star with one punch but the best we've seen is planet busting when him and Champa were busting planets while fighting.

Can't believe people are still arguing whether Goku is universal despite so many feats stating he is. And shockwaves getting stronger -.- forgot why it would seem getting stronger since Goku was negating it to begin with, and the narrator already said they are brawling with the power to destroy the universe, universal blows confirmed.

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alextheboss

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#28  Edited By alextheboss

@u_wot_m8 said:

Can't believe people are still arguing whether Goku is universal despite so many feats stating he is. And shockwaves getting stronger -.- forgot why it would seem getting stronger since Goku was negating it to begin with, and the narrator already said they are brawling with the power to destroy the universe, universal blows confirmed.

The elder kai just said the waves got stronger the further they went, when Goku negated the waves they stopped completely.

Also they said the same thing from Buuhan screaming.

No Caption Provided

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U_WOT_M8

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#29  Edited By U_WOT_M8

@u_wot_m8 said:

Can't believe people are still arguing whether Goku is universal despite so many feats stating he is. And shockwaves getting stronger -.- forgot why it would seem getting stronger since Goku was negating it to begin with, and the narrator already said they are brawling with the power to destroy the universe, universal blows confirmed.

The elder kai just said the waves got stronger the further they went, when Goku negated the waves they stopped completely.

Also they said the same thing from Buuhan screaming.

No Caption Provided

And ? That puts anime buuhan on that level, even the guides back it up.

Also no, Goku was trying to negate the shockwaves the entire time, and would of had some effect. Doesn't matter anyways, narrator said they where brawling with the power to destroy the universe. That's universal strikes

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alextheboss

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@u_wot_m8 said:

And ? That puts anime buuhan on that level, even the guides back it up.

Also no, Goku was trying to negate the shockwaves the entire time, and would of had some effect. Doesn't matter anyways, narrator said they where brawling with the power to destroy the universe. That's universal strikes

If he had universal strikes why didn't he punch universe Zamsu away?

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TheDeathstar

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@thedeathstar said:
@alextheboss said:

Like I said the shockwaves got stronger the further away they got. It's like their punches started a chain reaction or something. That doesn't mean the origin of the reaction is as strong as the result of the reaction.

You're in denial.

The manga pretty much already confirmed fused Zamsu is only around galaxy level, so saying SSG Goku's punches are galaxy level is absurd. Nobody weaker than Beerus is even close to universe level in DC and even Beerus can't destroy galaxies with punches. He can maybe destroy a star with one punch but the best we've seen is planet busting when him and Champa were busting planets while fighting.

That was a weakened Zamasu+Manga isn't canon to Anime, get your facts right. Beerus can destroy the universe with punches let alone galaxies lol.

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alextheboss

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That was a weakened Zamasu+Manga isn't canon to Anime, get your facts right. Beerus can destroy the universe with punches let alone galaxies lol.

If something isn't in both the manga and the anime it pretty much means it was made up by Toei. There have been no replications of anything like that since that episode anywyas and the biggest thing they actually destroyed on screen was a star.

And Fused Zamsu who presumably wasn't holding back was only destroying chunks of a city with the shockwaves from his punches.

No Caption Provided

And Goku and Frieza didn't show anything near universal either.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Not to mention everyone making a big deal about how Zeno is strong enough to destroy universes makes it seem like other characters can't. Especially not with punches.

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U_WOT_M8

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@u_wot_m8 said:

And ? That puts anime buuhan on that level, even the guides back it up.

Also no, Goku was trying to negate the shockwaves the entire time, and would of had some effect. Doesn't matter anyways, narrator said they where brawling with the power to destroy the universe. That's universal strikes

If he had universal strikes why didn't he punch universe Zamsu away?

Silly argument, doesn't mean someone has universal strikes, the author or animator has to make them destroy everything under the sun. The plot in the end > the character, regardless of how powerful they are, this is shown so many times in fiction where many characters who have the power to do something don't show it.

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U_WOT_M8

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#34  Edited By U_WOT_M8

@thedeathstar said:

That was a weakened Zamasu+Manga isn't canon to Anime, get your facts right. Beerus can destroy the universe with punches let alone galaxies lol.

If something isn't in both the manga and the anime it pretty much means it was made up by Toei. There have been no replications of anything like that since that episode anywyas and the biggest thing they actually destroyed on screen was a star.

And Fused Zamsu who presumably wasn't holding back was only destroying chunks of a city with the shockwaves from his punches.

No Caption Provided

And Goku and Frieza didn't show anything near universal either.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Not to mention everyone making a big deal about how Zeno is strong enough to destroy universes makes it seem like other characters can't. Especially not with punches.

Really ?

So Galactus is house level seeing how his blast range wasn't even house level ? or Eternity is only planet level seeing how he only destroyed a planet and nothing more further ?

Common sense man, like they are going to make them destroy the universe with every punch they throw. If that was the case, they wouldn't even let them move

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TheDeathstar

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@thedeathstar said:

That was a weakened Zamasu+Manga isn't canon to Anime, get your facts right. Beerus can destroy the universe with punches let alone galaxies lol.

If something isn't in both the manga and the anime it pretty much means it was made up by Toei. There have been no replications of anything like that since that episode anywyas and the biggest thing they actually destroyed on screen was a star.

And Fused Zamsu who presumably wasn't holding back was only destroying chunks of a city with the shockwaves from his punches.

No Caption Provided

And Goku and Frieza didn't show anything near universal either.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Not to mention everyone making a big deal about how Zeno is strong enough to destroy universes makes it seem like other characters can't. Especially not with punches.

Man do you even know what an AoE is? He already proved he is multi-galaxy level in terms of strikes in EP.12, You can't deny it. He also learnt how to nullify these strong level attacks, he has feats too. He has perfect ki control where he can tank the same amount of force that could be done to the environment inside his body and thus causing little to no damage to the environment.

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temporary

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lol beerus destroy stars with his sneeze while sleeping, and the multiverse abstract zamasu who try to break through timelines is beyond space and time itself and is IMMORTAL , destroying universe wont do jackshit to him, he transcends spacetime or whether itself, even kaioshin says merge zamasu(the form before abstract zamasu) who has ultimate strength and immortality is beyond their understanding, so universe busting is worthless to mention compared to the power of abstract zamasu, even whis who is unimpressed by universe explosion get his skin tingled by the power of abstract zamasu which is in another multiverse

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alextheboss

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@thedeathstar: @u_wot_m8: Controling AOE of ki blasts is definitely a thing, but controlling the AOE of a strike doesn't make logical sense.

I thought Goku was going to be universal too when I watched ep 12 but it seems like they threw that idea out and now just Beerus is universe level.

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alextheboss

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@temporary: Beerus never destroyed a star with a sneeze. He destroyed a small planet with a sneeze and a star when he got angry.

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Nomar

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I'll post what I posted in the other topic:

It's like saying Goku's punches can't do anything against flesh. Realize how stupid that sounds? You've given more value to flesh over iron even though without any Ki enhancements flesh is the much weaker substance. I've never understood why fictional skin, flesh and bones some people think is the only substance that can scale with increasing power. If you faced even a wood version of yourself, you'd lose. There is nothing special or magical about flesh. If flesh can get more durable and scale then so should a much more durable substance if it is a part of a creatures biological makeup.

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jasonhitto

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As always people lowballed dbs

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Gaoron

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As always people lowballed dbs

Its not even lowballing. Its just standard "my head-canon is more canon than your canon" lol

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dernman

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It's official Iron Man >>> Goku.

Is anyone really that surprised since The Man of Steel >>>> Goku

Trololol

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alextheboss

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#43  Edited By alextheboss

@gaoron said:
@jasonhitto said:

As always people lowballed dbs

Its not even lowballing. Its just standard "my head-canon is more canon than your canon" lol

That's what debating is... We come here to debate things in question. If something was clearly a fact then there would be no debating it would just be someoen stating a fact.

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Aimless

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People are actually taking this seriously...

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Aimless

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@u_wot_m8: @alextheboss: @thedeathstar: While we're on this subject,the explanation for the shock waves getting stronger doesn't add up.

It was explicitly stated that the destruction of the universe would kill both Goku and Beerus.

So the potency of their clashes at the epicentre cannot be universe level, otherwise they would have died.

The idea that the shock waves getting stronger via distance explains why Goku and Beerus were still alive,and Earth and it's inhabitants remaining unharmed.

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Firestorm808

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To summarize this entire thread, normal skin enhanced by ki is strong, but iron skin enhanced by ki is stronger.

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midnightdragon18

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#47  Edited By midnightdragon18

To summarize this entire thread, normal skin enhanced by ki is strong, but iron skin enhanced by ki is stronger.

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alextheboss

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@aimless: That's pretty much what I've been saying. Tbh the universe being destroyed was just something that was trying to be used to create tension. It has never been since, and not only did it happen when they were punching each other it happened while they beam clashed and Goku never found a way to counter this, yet when he beam clashed with Golden Frieza nothing even remotely close to that happened.

I still think the writers of both the movies and super purposeful made the Goku vs Frieza fight less epic than the Goku vs Beerus fight because they aren't smart enough to understand that Golden Frieza was stronger than the suppressed Beerus Goku fought. They just think it's Beerus so he must be stronger.

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Beast_mode999

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I would not take anything like that with a grain of salt considering Android 18 shattered Trunks Sword in DBZ and later in the episode we saw Vegeta punch the Cat lady through an arena made of Kenchin.

On top of that we saw Cell crush Android 16's head with ease as well as Goku black tanking a shot from a sniper rifle Which would easily tear through Iron.

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RukelnikovFTW

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#50  Edited By RukelnikovFTW
@beast_mode999 said:

I would not take anything like that with a grain of salt considering Android 18 shattered Trunks Sword in DBZ and later in the episode we saw Vegeta punch the Cat lady through an arena made of Kenchin.

On top of that we saw Cell crush Android 16's head with ease as well as Goku black tanking a shot from a sniper rifle Which would easily tear through Iron.

The sniper thing is not really a feat, it was made by future Bulma, I get it, but the strongest being in that timeline before Black was Dabura (or Trunks), so the most we can say about that bullet is that it should at least hurt Dabura level beings, Bulma is really smart, if the bullet couldn't even damage Dabura, there would be no reason to asume it could hurt Black. So around SSJ2 tier... which is NOWHERE near Black's tier.