How strong is base Goku?(physical strength)

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slimj87d

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@thedeathstar: Omg... Are we going to have this conversation again?

A mass has to be moved a distance for work to be performed. Vegeta didn't move Magetta nearly at all in those scans. Therefore no work was performed.

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slimj87d

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slimj87d

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Magetta resisting makes no sense because he can't flight and alter his movement using ki. This is the simplest explanation I can give If Magetta is the weight and Vegeta was anchored to the ground and was lifting him like in this pulley if Vegeta was strong enough it wouldn't matter hkw much Magetta didn't want to get picked up, he'd get picked up There's no resisting it here...

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TheDeathstar

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@slimj87d said:
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Yea that is also true.

Change in Kinetic Energy = Work done. i.e F*S.

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alextheboss

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@slimj87d: Ummm you can step and push more than you weigh. It just depends if you have enough friction to keep yourself from sliding.

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slimj87d

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TheDeathstar

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Whether Magetta was resisting being lifted up due to how Ki works or not is speculative but even if Vegeta wasn't able to lift 1000 tons in SSJ is outlier here because even Pre-God Base Goku can lift a lot higher than few 1000 tons.

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alextheboss

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@slimj87d: what do you mean step then? As long as the ground is flat it should be called a step.

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slimj87d

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#59  Edited By slimj87d

@alextheboss: Look at the scan. Look at Vegeta's legs. Vegeta is not shown to be opposing a horizontal load at all. He's not being pushed backwards nor does he have footing to oppose a horizontal load.

You're talking about pushing, that's irrelevant to the discussion since its not happening.

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MasterSkywalker

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Pathetic when compared to other mid tiers.

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slimj87d

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#61  Edited By slimj87d

@masterskywalker:

Compared to what? Your jurassic park dinosaurs? Let's not forget that embarrassment.

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MasterSkywalker

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#62  Edited By MasterSkywalker

@slimj87d: I agree we shouldn't bring up your embarrassment, but Dinosaurs are pretty tough. They can break through iron.

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slimj87d

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#63  Edited By slimj87d

@masterskywalker said:

@slimj87d: I agree we shouldn't bring up your embarrassment, but Dinosaurs are pretty tough. They can break through iron.

Keep telling yourself that. You're the one that tried to convince someone that gravity and density have no relationship.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/dragon-ball-universe/4015-56629/forums/can-mastered-ultra-instinct-goku-destroy-the-unive-1931308/?page=2#js-message-19970315

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MasterSkywalker

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@slimj87d:No I said having 10x more gravity doesn't translate to it being denser.

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TheDeathstar

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#65  Edited By TheDeathstar

@slimj87d: lol lets not forget he claimed Beerus is a mountain buster, his salt is spreading here.

You expect him to understand how gravity, mass and density works xD?

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slimj87d

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@slimj87d:No I said having 10x more gravity doesn't translate to it being denser.

ElHermanoSSJ5: We can see how when Goku increased his ki was able to punch through King Kai planet(10 times denser than Earth)

Masterskywalker: KK's planet is 10x more denser it just has 10x gravity. That doesn't translate to density.

Density is mass per a unit volume. If you took a cube of KK's planet and a same size cube of Earth, KK's planet would be more dense.

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slimj87d

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@slimj87d: lol lets not forget he claimed Beerus is a mountain buster, his salt is spreading here.

He's a troll. Even if he's proved wrong, he still wins because he got fed.

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alextheboss

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@slimj87d: I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. I'm just pointing out if there is let's say a box in front of you that is heavier than you, if you are strong enough, and if the ground isn't too slippery, you can push it even if it's heavier than you.

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slimj87d

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#69  Edited By slimj87d

@alextheboss said:

@slimj87d: I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say. I'm just pointing out if there is let's say a box in front of you that is heavier than you, if you are strong enough, and if the ground isn't too slippery, you can push it even if it's heavier than you.

I understand what you were saying. I'm pointing out to you that it has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Vegeta lifting Magetta in that specific position.

Also, food for thought. If something starts to lift you up, the normal force you create on the earth decreases, you lose traction and therefore your friction force decreases. But again, this has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

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alextheboss

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@slimj87d: I'm wasn't talking about the Magetta feat, I was talking about this line specifically

Are you the same guy that didn't understand that's you can't step and push anymore than you weigh?

You can step and push more than your weigh, unless you are explaining yourself poorly.

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slimj87d

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#71  Edited By slimj87d

@alextheboss said:

@slimj87d: I'm wasn't talking about the Magetta feat, I was talking about this line specifically

Are you the same guy that didn't understand that's you can't step and push anymore than you weigh?

You can step and push more than your weigh, unless you are explaining yourself poorly.

That was a continuing conversation he and I had previously. I am not explaining anything poorly as you coming into a conversation between two people that you have no context behind.

The original conversation was that if you placed your foot on someones palm as if they were kneeling down to give you a boost, you cannot exert anymore force than your own weight. You would lift yourself upward.

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alextheboss

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@slimj87d: Oh so you are talking about pushing down? Well as long as there foot is already on their hand and they push up, ya that would just be their weight. But if their foot wasn't touching their hand initially and it was a stomp, then it could be more force than their weight.

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slimj87d

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@slimj87d: Oh so you are talking about pushing down? Well as long as there foot is already on their hand and they push up, ya that would just be their weight. But if their foot wasn't touching their hand initially and it was a stomp, then it could be more force than their weight.

Yeah, I covered that in our conversation. If you stomped our jumped on their hand, that's different. You're introducing m * acceleration for a duration of time and would have a momentum they would have to overcome.

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alextheboss

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MasterSkywalker

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@slimj87d said:
@masterskywalker said:

@slimj87d:No I said having 10x more gravity doesn't translate to it being denser.

ElHermanoSSJ5: We can see how when Goku increased his ki was able to punch through King Kai planet(10 times denser than Earth)

Masterskywalker: KK's planet is 10x more denser it just has 10x gravity. That doesn't translate to density.

Density is mass per a unit volume. If you took a cube of KK's planet and a same size cube of Earth, KK's planet would be more dense.

Its not 10x denser than Earth. Your incorrect calculations are nothing but a pipe dream and some poor assertions that have come to be associated with others of your caliber.

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slimj87d

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#76  Edited By slimj87d

@masterskywalker:

Are you saying you don't understand how density works? What kind of metallurgy class are you taking? Who cares about DBZ, it's what about what you said being wrong right now.

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MasterSkywalker

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@slimj87d said:

@masterskywalker:

Are you saying you don't understand how density works? What kind of metallurgy class are you taking? Who cares about DBZ, it's what about what you said being wrong right now.

No mate, you don't understand how it works. Its fine, I don't expect people on CV to have a decent grasp on simple stuff. Especially after investing in a show like DB....

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slimj87d

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@masterskywalker:

No, let's finish this. Tell me how it works? Because there's two equations that relate gravity to density.

Gravity in terms of mass and radius

Density in terms of mass and radius

Changing some variables around you have gravity in terms of density and size.

There's only two correct responses that you can have at this point.

1. I didn't know how size, density and gravity are related.

2. I'm going to continue to embarrass myself.

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MasterSkywalker

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@slimj87d said:

@masterskywalker:

No, let's finish this. Tell me how it works? Because there's two equations that relate gravity to density.

Gravity in terms of mass and radius

Density in terms of mass and radius

Changing some variables around you have gravity in terms of density and size.

There's only two correct responses that you can have at this point.

1. I didn't know how size, density and gravity are related.

2. I'm going to continue to embarrass myself.

This is cute. You're attempting to inject some science while trying to sound like you know what you're talking about. I needed a good chuckle and you sir did not disappoint. But you might wanna repeat 6th grade.

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slimj87d

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#80  Edited By slimj87d

@masterskywalker:

The insults are irrelevant. Proceed with teaching us how gravity works and why density does not play a role.

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MasterSkywalker

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@slimj87d said:

@masterskywalker:

The insults are irrelevant. Proceed with teaching us how gravity works and whu density does not play a role.

I'm not insulting just pointing out the hilarity in your post. No, you're the one making faulty claims about DB so the burden of proof falls on you. I'll be waiting for a legitimate explanation if you're capable of it.

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slimj87d

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#82  Edited By slimj87d

@masterskywalker:

I saw a comment exchange between you and and another user about gravity, density and size. I saw that you INCORRECTLY stated that density does not play a role. I pointed out too you that scientifically, it would play a role. I even rewrote the gravity equation in terms of density and size. Ever since, you haven't been able to prove me wrong and avoid having to prove anything by "lol."

We're not talking about DBZ. We're discussing science and something you said that is incorrect.

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MasterSkywalker

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#83  Edited By MasterSkywalker

@slimj87d: I'm sure you're misremembering again, but interjecting in a convo you have no place or noteworthy mention in was your first mistake. Among these horrible scientific inaccuracies you're trying to prove for DBZ.

We're not talking about DBZ. We're discussing science and something you said that is incorrect.

You're trying to apply some false science to King Kais planets on a DBZ related thread. Did you like lose the capacity for reading comprehension too while you were away for a half an hour?

I'll give you one more try. Impress me.

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@masterskywalker: I will never understand how you don't get any warnings for your subtile insults...

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slimj87d

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#86  Edited By slimj87d

@masterskywalker:

I like how you keep trying to find ways around explaining what density doesn't matter.

I posted the conversation for all to see. I linked your post also.

A summary again, a planet the size of king kais has 10X the gravity of earth. It would require a greater "density" in order to have a greater gravitational constant. You said that density doesn't matter.

Now you're just bullshitting.

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alextheboss

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@slimj87d: I mean this is fiction. Toriko's planet is massive, yet gravity in the human world is normal Earth Gravity. Every planet/moon they go to in star wars seems to have the same gravity, and in dragon ball King Kai's planet is small and has 10x gravity, Beerus' planet is small but has normal gravity, the super dragon balls have 4x the diameter of Earth but have the same gravity, ect. Gravity is usually plot driven in fiction.

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slimj87d

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#88  Edited By slimj87d

@alextheboss: Alex, you're doing it again. This is not about DBZ. This is plainly how gravity works.

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@alextheboss: Sure there is the fiction part and i agree that it doesn't have to be real life physics which would apply to it. But as long as there is no other statement about the circumstances shouldn't we go by the only things known about said planet to calculate or speculate about the density? We only have the size and the gravity. The only thing North Kai ever said was that his planet has a powerful gravity. So why not use the only variables we have at hand?

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alextheboss

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@slimj87d:

Oops, lmao.

@kratosx64x:

I mean if you want to do fan calcs for your own amusement that's fine, I just wouldn't use it in battles to dry and say "this is how hard it is to blow up planet Vegeta". Maybe I could see saying that we should accept it being 10x harder to blow up than Earth considering it has 10x gravity, which if lets say Vegeta's galic gun had a power level of 30-40,000 and was just barely enough to possibly blow up Earth, then to destroy planet Vegeta you would need a power level of at least 300-400,000 and Frieza's power level is 530,000 and his supernova might be above that, so that lines up. Something like that, while while doesn't count as official or anything, isn't a massive jump in logic. But I don't accept people doing their complicated calcs trying to say Frieza's feat is star level ect.

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@alextheboss: I wouldn't consider it fan calcs because people only use given numbers from the official source. Nothing is added from anybody on the equation. And tbh i wouldn't say such a thing about Frieza. A big planet is a big planet nothing else.

And the way Ki can go through almost everything, making something harder or denser wouldn't effect the Ki output needed necessarily. We saw how Ki can go through wood, rock, dirt, iron, living beings, energy, buildings the same way. So the way Super Nova went through it it could be a planet as hard as diamonds. It still would only be a planet bust.

BUT if it would be purely physicial, that would be a completely different case. Physicial attacks don't have the same attributes to say that it doesn't matter what it is up against.

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alextheboss

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@kratosx64x: I do think what you are saying makes sense. I'm not sure exactly what your position is in all of this so I'll just say what I think and you can say what you think about it.

As for this topic I said in the Super anime current base Goku might be able to lift a small mountain. And Frieza is a planet buster, not a star buster (though at full power probably at the very least large/multi planet level)

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@alextheboss: My only point was that if a calculation uses given variables from the source material it shouldn't be called fan calc tbh. Like Gokus speed on the Snakeway. All variables for the equation are given so you just calculate a canon feat.

Like i said. Would never say such thing. Busting a large planet =/= Star level DC.

But i belive that they only lack the lifting strength. Physical attacks should be planetary given how easy Beerus destroyed half a planet and Frieza destroyed earth with a push to the ground (that could be a Ki attack but it really didn't seem like it to me).

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alextheboss

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@kratosx64x:

My only point was that if a calculation uses given variables from the source material it shouldn't be called fan calc tbh. Like Gokus speed on the Snakeway. All variables for the equation are given so you just calculate a canon feat.

Yep, I agree with this.

Like i said. Would never say such thing. Busting a large planet =/= Star level DC.

Ok, then we are in agreement here too.

But i belive that they only lack the lifting strength. Physical attacks should be planetary given how easy Beerus destroyed half a planet and Frieza destroyed earth with a push to the ground (that could be a Ki attack but it really didn't seem like it to me).

Those were both ki attacks imo. Not regular ki blasts though. Beerus' was one of his destruction attacks and Frieza used some TK ki type move, maybe similar to what he did to Krillin.

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And the way Earth blew up defintely didn't indicate a physical strike. It would of been almost instantaneous, not slows blowing up with lava shooting out everywhere.

However, Beerus does have planet level strikes as shown in the manga.

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@alextheboss said:

@kratosx64x:

My only point was that if a calculation uses given variables from the source material it shouldn't be called fan calc tbh. Like Gokus speed on the Snakeway. All variables for the equation are given so you just calculate a canon feat.

Yep, I agree with this.

Like i said. Would never say such thing. Busting a large planet =/= Star level DC.

Ok, then we are in agreement here too.

But i belive that they only lack the lifting strength. Physical attacks should be planetary given how easy Beerus destroyed half a planet and Frieza destroyed earth with a push to the ground (that could be a Ki attack but it really didn't seem like it to me).

Those were both ki attacks imo. Not regular ki blasts though. Beerus' was one of his destruction attacks and Frieza used some TK ki type move, maybe similar to what he did to Krillin.

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And the way Earth blew up defintely didn't indicate a physical strike. It would of been almost instantaneous, not slows blowing up with lava shooting out everywhere.

However, Beerus does have planet level strikes as shown in the manga.

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Well, they look like amped Ki physicals, like when Goku amped his finger with Ki to fight Trunks' sword. Maybe they amped their hand or something. Though they do look weird, maybe Frieza phased a ki blasts on to Earth's core or something like that.

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@alextheboss: not sure about Frieza like i said before. It could be both. But The shockwaves Beerus creates with his tap are the same waves created when he punches Goku

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alextheboss

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@kratosx64x: Are you talking about the universal waves? Because those were a different color and shape.

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TheDeathstar

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@alextheboss: Some of them can be explained via low or high density.

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Lordragoon

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Feats and statement > head canon. Goku can lift his body in a black hole. Simple as that.

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Scotchbear

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#100  Edited By Scotchbear

Lol at people using manga showings to down play anime Goku....

Not the same. Feats cannot be cross referenced unless they are shared.

Manga Goku is actually far far weaker than anime Goku.

Anime Goku was already 10x stronger than manga Goku by the u6 arc.

He's about 20x stronger than his ToP counterpart from the manga.

Hit from the anime is also stronger than manga hit.

Manga Beerus is stronger than anime Beerus by a ton.