How much power was Beerus using against SSG Goku ?

What percentage ?

If we take into consideration the fact that Jiren blocked a full-powered Universal Survival Saga SSJG Goku's punches with one (or two, don't know) finger without even powering up, let alone taking Goku seriously, and that Beerus is around Jiren level, if not slightly weaker, Beerus was using much less than 1% against Beerus Saga SSJG Goku; a mere guess from the top of my head would be 0.3%. Don't take that literally though.

But, if you mean Movie (Beerus movie/RoF movie) Beerus, he was probably using around 10-15%. If he was indeed using 70%, and Blue is stronger than God, then Golden Frieza and SSJB Goku would be leagues above him, and Frieza wouldn't be scared of him.

Super Anime Beerus = Much less than 1%

Movie Beerus = 10-15%

In anime there is no way to tell, considering Gokou used kaioken x20 and still was useless against Jiren who is around Beerus. For all we know he could have used 1% or even below it.

In movie Toriyama said 60% and imo this didnt changed in the manga. Blue is probably around 80% but drains stamina too quickly, mastered Blue is constant 80% of Beerus. Thats how I see it.

Wanking Beerus too much. Beerus used at least 25-30 percent of his power. SSB would be 30-40 and SSBKK 20x being 45-60 of his power. Then obviously unmaster UI increasing his power to at least close to Beerus.

anywhere near negative infinity but not as low as whis GG.

@AlexTheBoss

In the movie he used 70% as it was stated by Whis.

In the anime he had to have been using less than 1% which imo is really dumb and undermines the fight.

Beerus was likely using a substantial amount. You might think I’m stupid for saying that, but remember how wrecked Goku was and how not-wrecked Beerus was? Beerus was practically unharmed while Goku was visibly suffering hit after hit. I disagree that Super Saiyan God Goku was anywhere near as strong as whatever percent Beerus was using against him, as Beerus’ goal was obviously to be defeating Goku not matching him. If my bare minimum to defeat someone was 10%, why would I settle for 10%? Why not use 30% and make victory 3x more certain? This is exactly like the fan assumption that Goku using Kaioken x20 against Frieza was equal to 50% of Frieza’s full power because they think Goku was that strong. If Goku’s Kaioken x20 was matching Frieza, there’s no way Goku could’ve ever had his Kamehameha blocked by Frieza with one handed and Frieza remaining uninjured after.

25-30%

I don't think it undermines it that much, i agree they could have said maybe 10% even 20%, but Beerus was supposed to be leagues above them! He's a God and they are mortals.

5%

@gokuandsuperman: IF SSB is around 35-40% beerus power for you , then how is ssbkkx20 only a 45-60 ? Applying multiplication .... Goku should be 800 % Beerus' power if he was 40 in regular SSB.

I think SSJG is 3% of Beerus's power and SSJB is 6%

SSJB KKx10 Goku is 60% of Beerus's power, and KKx20 would briefly surpass him

UI Goku is 600% Beerus, and 60% Whis

UI KKx100 Goku will defeat Grand Priest.

Come at me!

Hahaha

Well Goku was a Super Saiyan GOD.

Well, current goku still isn't Beerus, so alot less than 1%

If he used even 1% in Beerus arc, then current goku would easily above beerus. Heck, RoF would be in par with 100% beerus.

The first half of the fight was when they were going to destroy the universe with 3 punch clashes. I would say beerus was using 20%.

Then SSG Goku and Beerus increased their power level after that. I would say Beerus used 30% during the 2nd half of the fight.

Jiren probably used around 60% against UI Goku.

this. They made the fight super hype and all and had Beerus looking like he was actually putting effort, but for any of the scaling and statements made by Akira to actually make sense Beerus would have had to be using less than 1 percent of his power which leads to further inconsistencies and dumb threads like "is base goku universal" and such.

Akira could have easily just had Goku himself show some flashy feat, have Beerus completely stomp him in an epic way that still makes the fight entertaining(like Vegeta vs Jiren for example) then people wouldn't immediately associate feats with "god level" status, therefore hyping up certain skirmishes in ways that shouldn't be done.

Think of it this way if Beerus legit didn't exist, and there was some other threat to the universe instead, we could have literally kept going and going with the power scaling and legit nobody would care. But Beerus being brought into the mix changes things.

Beerus using 1 percent is a load of bs. No proof that Beerus used that much and even said he used 10 percent to demolish Vegeta.

@gokuandsuperman: Except when he used 10 percent he 1 fingered Vegeta.

@gokuandsuperman: Beerus is over 20x stronger than SSB, and SSB is around 2-5x SSG, and Goku is stronger than he was in the BoG arc. That is already enough to prove Beerus was only using around 1% of his power, possibly even less. The only way this can't be true is if kaioken doesn't actually make Goku x times stronger. Imo kaioken messed up the scaling.

Well as we've been shown there's inconsistencies when it comes to Goku as a "God" because even as of late the GODS still call him a mortal. And as of such weve seen other characters such as Kale, Hit & Jiren contend with Goku, again showing this form is far from what it should be.

SSJG Goku = 0.05 Beerus

SSJB Goku = 0.5 Beerus

KKX20 SSJB Goku = 10 Beerus

That's what I was thinking but it was difficult to explain.

If , like the majority are saying , beerus used 1% of his power only .... and still had enough energy output to destroy the universe , then shouldn't full power Beerus be multi-universe level + ? This could be even more depending if Beerus is still far above Goku even after the T.O.P

@djudgment:

Well as we've been shown there's inconsistencies when it comes to Goku as a "God" because even as of late the GODS still call him a mortal.

Goku has a god form, but he is still a mortal. He grows old and dies and has no god ki unless in his god form.

And as of such weve seen other characters such as Kale, Hit & Jiren contend with Goku, again showing this form is far from what it should be.

Jiren is stronger than his GoD but he is not a god. Non gods putting up a fight against SSG Goku doesn't mean that SSG doesn't have the power of a god.

@trololololol: No because SSG Goku isn't close to universe level that was BS. Beerus is universe level, Zeno can destroy all of the universes.

@alextheboss: I'm pretty sure it was 60% in the movie.

How would you rank this in manga? Do you think it stayed the same like in the movie? And what percentage do you think Blue is?

@gaoron:

I'm pretty sure it was 60% in the movie.

Goku was 60% of Beerus, but Beerus used 70% to beat him.

How would you rank this in manga? Do you think it stayed the same like in the movie? And what percentage do you think Blue is?

I think it is similar tot he movie, but I'm not sure if it's exactly the same. If we keep the original scale Toriyama gave us and then use the manga I think it would go like this.

Hit: 5

SSG Goku: 6

SSB Goku/SSR Black: 7

MSSB Goku/Merged Zamasu: 8

Beerus: 10

But if we consider SSB to be a 2-5x multiplier then it would be different than the movies. More like this

If times 2

10% SSB Vegeta: 1.2

Hit: 3-5

SSG Goku: 6

SSB Goku/Vegeta: 12

MSSB Goku: 15

Beerus: 20

If times 5

10% SSB Vegeta: 3

Hit: 5

SSG Goku: 6

SSB Goku/Vegeta: 30

MSSB Goku: 50

Beerus: 100

Indeed, so that's why i don't mind the gap because Goku isn't a true GoD, he might have a form of a GoD but he hasn't got a full state. I dont know, it's confusing !

I didnt mean he hasn't got the power of a GoD, i know he has the power of one, what i mean is why does the difference between the two, that of Beerus & Goku seem so large?

@djudgment: Power creep and the fact Toriyama didn't want want them to be stronger than Beerus. The kaioken x10 and x20 made things much worse.

The "70% power" quote was taken from Battle of Gods prior to the release of DragonBall Super.

Akira probably had no plans for a new series and thus, didn't foresee the consequences of making Ssj god THAT powerful.

@alextheboss: Mmmm indeed, i can see you're point now.

@thedemonlord: He didn't know there was going to be a new series, but he did know dragon ball would continue. They actually could of kept the same power scale if they just didn't spam new forms and power ups in the anime.

@alextheboss: SSG Goku (along with a massively holding back Beerus) was creating Universe destroying shockwaves . SSG should be near universe level .

Beerus should be multi-universe level considering he was using like 1% if his power against SSG .

@trololololol: It's just the writers not knowing what they are doing. Beerus has never been presented as more than universe level.

Well let's go multiplier by multiplier to hash this out:

God form is an unknown multiplier, so for now I will use the variable "g".

Super Saiyan Blue is at minimum 2g and more than likely 50g since it is Super Saiyan stacked onto Super Saiyan God.

Then Kaio Ken x 20 pushes that to either 40g or 1000g.

And let's not forget it was determined that Goku got 10 times stronger after tying with Hit without using Kaio Ken. So overall, he gets another boost: 400g or 10000g

Then assuming that Kaio Ken Goku is more or less equal to SS Kefla, and that Ultra Instinct is bare minimum equal to SS2 Kefla, we can determine this:
If you assume Kaio Ken was not folded in that fight, it means SS Kefla was equal to 40g or 1000g. So her max would be 80g to 2000g. This doesn't match up as Goku's maximum was already higher than this. This means he must have used a higher fold of Kaio Ken.
If we assume x 10 Kaio Ken was used, that puts SS Kefla at 200g to 5000g, putting her maximum at 400g or 10,000g. This is more like it, as it falls within the realm of possibility and matches up with his previous maximum. But we can still go higher.
If we assume x 20 Kaio Ken was used against Kefla, that puts her even to 400g or 20,000g in SS, then 800g or 40,000g in SS2. So this is Ultra Instinct's highest possible limit so far.

If we assume Ultra Instinct is relatively equal to Jiren, which is equal to Gods of Destruction aka Beerus, then this is where we need to start our fractions. If it's the low low number of 400g, the bare minimum possibility in this case, that means Beerus was using only .25% in his battle with God Goku. That's a quarter of 1%. But it can still go lower!
If we go with 40,000, the highest number we found, Beerus was fighting using only .0025%. That's a quarter of one thousandth of 1%.

Ah but we're not done yet. If we focus on Kefla alone, we can use the fusion multiplier to get some answers. If we assume SS2 Kefla is relatively equal to Ultra Instinct, which is then compared to Beerus levels, we can find other comparisons. The fusion multiplier stated on screen comes out to:

10 x (a+b).

In this case we have a SS2 Caulifla and a God level fighter in Kale. So, it equals: 10 x (100 + g) = 1000 + 10g.

We then adjust these for Kefla's transformations: 100 x (1000 + 10g) = 100,000 + 1000g

So overall this comes to .1% of Beerus's power minus another 100,000x base form from that. And that's using the low multiplier. If we use Vegito as an example, this fusion multiplier should actually be 40 x (a + b). Given that SS3 + SS2 = 500, the Vegito's base form was bare minimum equal to 400 and then with Super Saiyan on top of that putting him at 20,000, this means Vegito was 40 times stronger than the two of them put together. So again, the percentage for Beerus would be lowered even more to .25% minus 400,000 base form.

All in all, the final answer, while being impossible to determine without calculating God form, is absolutely guaranteed to be below .1%. Not even 1%, .1%. All the multipliers in this show have definitely pushed the scaling up quite a bit.

Now, I've calculated Goku's God Form to be somewhere between 1-4 million, so if you want to have an even cooler answer based on that, Beerus was only using .0001% of his power against SS3 Goku before any of this happened. I could go into how I calculated that, but I'll leave that for another post for now. Regardless of the answer, this goes to prove the scaling of DB Super is guaranteed in the millions by the end of the line, let alone the thousands.

SS Blue is confirmed to be the SS of SBG new base form. Lowballing him will only complicate stuff.

Goku was fatigued enough that his SSG form cannot beat base Kefla even though a fresh one could. LSS Kefla would be about same as a fresh SSB Goku, but IMO definitely not x10 Goku.

Ultra Instinct is probably not equal to Jiren. There's no way to know exactly how strong Beerus is by comparing to Jiren, but we know almost for sure that he is stronger than Kaio-Ken x20 Goku, for even Champa is confident of beating Goku after seeing Kaio-Ken x10 in U6 arc. That would be about 10000g with minimal headcanon.

Vados said Kefla is tens of times stronger than her parts combined. I don't think it's fair to give a 10x. LSS Caulifla was never god level, since fatigued SSG Goku can take both of them together. As for Vegito I'm just gonna use what I did for the other thread:

Comparing with Base Goku (=1x),

1. SS1 Gotenks >= SS3 Goku = 400x
2. Base Vegito >= SS3 Gotenks = 3200x
3. Goku Blue >= SS Vegito = 160 000x
4. Vegito Blue = Base Vegito x Goku Blue = 512 000 000x (lowball)

That's fair, I just wanted to give a minimum to be safe.

I don't know if it's safe to assume that a fresh God Goku could beat base Kefkla as there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that. Goku is still fighting pretty hard given his lack of stamina so it's hard to judge how much stronger he would be at maximum. The only evidence we have so far is that base Kefla is stronger than a weakened God Goku, but there wasn't anything in particular that pointed to the opposite being possible. Also I judge that LSS Kefla was definitely in the ballpark as Kaio Ken Goku, given that she managed to trade blows him/knock him out in a single blow (even though he was fatigued of course).

That's also fair. After all, Goku failed to make a lasting mark against Jiren at all. And given the information we found out during his fight with Kefla, his strength is lacking in that form anyway. So at best we'd be assuming Ultra Instinct just hasn't reached its full potential yet by making it equal to Jiren at all. I suppose the best we can do is assume it's in the same ballpark as him. After all, they were trading blows pretty evenly, so speed wise I think they're pretty equal (Probably, since we haven't since Jiren go all out yet). As for comparing Jiren to Beerus, I think that's a fair leap to make. Jiren is confirmed stronger then or at least as strong as Belmod. If we compare all the Gods of Destruction on even footing, which is fair, then Jiren could definitely be compared to Beerus. We've finally reached that ceiling where the mortals are approaching that power level, or even surpassed it. And 10,000g is a fair assessment, it falls on the low end without being too far out of the range I predicted. Right where Ultra Instinct probably is on this scale considering everything.

That's true, I was just trying to do the low end to illustrate the point. Given the terminology, it's somewhere in between 20x-90x in actuality. And I'm assuming you meant Kale was never god level. That's very possible, that's one of the more frustrating parts about this. She is definitely way above normal Super Saiyan levels, probably way over 3 as well, but given the pool of evidence she dips down below God form regularly. But she also has that feat where she tanked Goku's SSB blast, which also complicates things. I guess the safest thing is to assume that in her Berserker state, she's much more durable and wouldn't take as much damage even from a blast that strong, but in her LSS form she has focused all that power into speed and strength like a normal fighter, losing that uncontrollable durability and rage in he process. So this would explain the difference between the two because both cannot be allowed in the same form without differing them somehow, unless you believe Goku was holding back significantly during that blast.

Seeing your numbers I am mostly in agreement, as I side with every statement. The only question I have is the SS Gotenks vs SS3 Goku. While I do believe he is stronger than him given the fusion, do you believe there is sufficient proof besides the GT guide to support this? I mean, the GT guide referring to Gogeta as dozens of times stronger than SS4 Goku is the strongest indicator of the Fusion Dance multiplier, but most people have a problem with using GT stuff in this power scaling. I was just wondering if you were doing it based on that or something else.

@acausality: "Way less than one percent" My ass, In the Movie he used 70% of his Power BUT In the Anime he used 10-15% (Maybe more, who knows) for Longevity sakes.

@alextheboss: you really think that in anime Beerus was using 1% against SSG Goku ?

@empressofdread: I don't think that was Toriyama's intent, but the anime team made it true if you take the kaioken multiplier seriously. In the movie Beerus used 70% as Whis stated.

@alextheboss: was there any proof given for beerus being at 1% whats this about kk multiplier I am not remembering it.

@empressofdread: Kkx 20 Goku is weaker than Beerus. Let's say SSB is 5x SSG. That means if Goku literally didn't get an ounce stronger since the BoG arc Beerus had to be using less than 1% of his power in that fight. And that's if SSB is only 5x SSG and if Goku didn't get stronger since then.

@alextheboss: but its just in theory right. It could very well be the normal problems with dragon ball super power levels.

@empressofdread: Like I said, it depends if you take he kaioken multiplier seriously or not. SSB kaioken isn't in the manga so that should be taken into consideration, but logically kaioken x20 should make Goku 20x stronger. Hit even flat out said kaioken x10 made Goku x10 stronger.

@alextheboss: yup thats how KK works.

Well Ssbx20 is at least 1000x more powerful than Ssg and a Surpressed Jiren (who was probably weaker than Beerus in that state) still stomped him.

Beerus would have had to at the most used .1% of his power.

I think that there is not a linear way to calculate that. I belive that Beerus power works more like a curve than a line.

What i mean by that is when Beerus uses 10% of his power it is not just 10x stronger than his 1% but more like 20 - 30x stronger. And the more power he uses the stronger this gets. This would explain why Goku even with KKx20 isn't stronger than Beerus.

Example: While Goku with Kaioken x10 gets 10x stronger, Beerus using 20% of his power would make him 80x Stronger than his 1%. Of course those numbers are purely theoretical.

That would also explain how MUI Goku would be stronger than Beerus.

I'm just guesstimating here, but I think he used 20-25% of his power against SSG Goku.