How do DB Super power levels work?

So after watching the recent Episode I'm having my doubts on how strong super characters really are.

Cabba had never reached super saiyan before. Logically he should not be stronger than anyone in Z who had all reached the regular ssj with no trouble. And once he turned ssj he should not have been any stronger than Goku was in Namek

However he was able to match Vegeta in base form. Vegeta is supposed to have God ki merged with him yet he was even with a saiyan who doesn't. And was giving Vegeta a hard time in ssj. Which make no sense.

This would suggest that none of these character are as strong as we originally believed them to be. And that Vegeta or Goku aren't that much superior to their Z counterpaths.

I don't think vegeta was fighting cabba all that seriously. When they were in equal transformations vegeta just ate that punch to his face. He probably could have ended it at any moment but wanted to teach cabba to go ssj out of respect for the saiyans.

Stop with the misinformation at my one point has it said Goku and Vegeta base are anywhere near God ki level

They're more powerful but to the degree Unknown this is also shown by the fact Piccoolo could hold his own vs Frost and probably beat him

So the fighters in the tourney aren't that much powerful than Ealier Z villains except for Hit

Since when do logic and DBZ go in the same sentence? Cabba shouldn't be logically stronger than power level 18,000 , which is vegeta in saiyan saga.

Him matching vegeta in base form indicates he's above FINAL FORM FREEZA in base. I know that's ridiculous but that's how DB works.

Vegeta's SS transformation >>>>> Cabba's first ever transformation.

Vegeta fully mastered the power of SS after cell games, unless you think that it accounts for nothing.

@royal_warrior:

1) agree they are below God level... They have to go Ssj to reach Ssg red

2) Frost was beaten to a pulp if you have forgotten abou that... And Piccolo only had one hope against him... If anything super amped piccolos power,

3) Yes but that only applies to Botamo. The fact the rest were above Base Goku and Vegeta puts them at the very least high tier Z level and definitely above DBZ Ssj3 level.

@emperorthanos:

Just because the universe 6 characters are matching Goku and Vegeta doesn't make Goku and Vegeta weaker.

If anything it just shows that U6 characters are strong as hell. The Saiyans in U6 are said to have evolved above U7 Saiyans.

I hate it when people say Goku and Vegeta characters are weaker because anither character in the universe matches them.

@theman44:

I was ok with Frost and Magetta. But a low saiyan like Cabba being able to match them suggest they are only ssg power once they bring it out as ssb.

I don't see how the saiyans of U6, having no struggles at all. Were able to evolve their base form higher that the likes of Gohan who has been fighing all his life.

@emperorthanos:

It's just their genetics... U6 made it clear that the Saiyans in U6 are actually superior to U7 Saiyans... There is also the fact that The U7 saiyans never got the opportunity to evolve that far

Keep in mind Frieza was worried about them surpassing him.

@theman44: not really the only difference was that they didn't have tails. Even if they evolved, how could they have evolved to the point where they are as strong as Base God GOku without achieving the ssj form.

Plot dude... Akira just made them that strong. Again just because a character matches another character doesn't make them weak.

You are saying Cabba is Probably saiyan saga level... base off what... these aren't the same saiyans from U7

@emperorthanos: you ask a lot.. why, why... why? Because why not. Its an anime. Anything can happen.

They don't

Goku specifically stated Vegeta could have beaten the robot much quicker had he took the fight more seriously. As for Cabba, you saw how quickly Vegeta shut him down once he let him let out his angry barrage of attacks as a SSJ. Cabba went to hit him and Vegeta stood their and smirked. Then he showed him SSJB so he would have something higher to achieve and aim for, and proceeded to one shot him. IMO, the Z fighters (except maybe Piccolo) all seem to be holding back a ton because these U6 guys just don't seem on there level at all except maybe Hit. Frost only did as well as he did due to his sneaky little poison thing. Vegeta was "training" Cabba, according to the sub I watched.

They dont.

@jloneblackheart: Haha, we had the same thought. I didn't even see your post... XD

It's not even a thought anymore. Just common sense. We are 37 eisodes in and it makes less and less sense with every one.

@jloneblackheart: Seconded.

EDIT: from what I have heard. Am not caught up yet.

@ad-arts: anything can happen really? thats your answer. I'm asking these questions because people keep saying Goku and Vegeta are equal to ssg as in their regular ssj form. When what has been shown is completely opposite. I admit that I believed that before but after recent events in the anime. It's obvious that Goku and Vegeta only have God ki in ssb.

It's crazy that people would rather believe that Piccolo, Frost, Magetta and Cabba are all on god level for no reason rather than believing that Goku and Vegeta are not as strong as believed.

Obvious? Well then you need to work on a definition of obvious. Just because one guy is as strong as Vegeta does not mean Vegeta is not strong. You do realize Champa brought what he thought is the best fighters from his universe? Why exactly those fighters should not be close in power to our guys? Any reason? No reason. If Cabba can match Vegeta in his base it means Cabba is strong as hell, not Vegeta is weak. Vegeta still had the upper hand.

It's obvious that Goku and Vegeta only have God ki in ssb.

Goku has a fraction of God Ki at all times, that's what Beerus said... SSJ Goku was pretty much as good vs Beerus as SSG Goku was, so in fact yes, SSJ Goku was close to SSG in terms of power, but not in terms of durability. Given 4 more years of training, SSJ is now probably above SSG.

It's crazy that people would rather believe that Piccolo, Frost, Magetta and Cabba are all on god level for no reason rather than believing that Goku and Vegeta are not as strong as believed.

eee Frost? Nooooooo. SSJ Goku was an overkill. Since SSJ is what i think above SSG ( when he fought beerus ) but not by a lot. That would put frost below SSG since he is no match at all for SSJ Goku ( SSG ). Considering SSJ is a multiplier of base form, Frost is way below SSJ/SSG

Magetta? Yes, he is close. He was capable of tanking SSJ Vegeta hits and energy attacks. Vegeta is still a bit too much but Magetta is nearly there. This is good enough reason.

Cabba yes, he is near SSG, he is a match for SSJ Vegeta whos is around SSG.

Piccolo? No man, not even close. Piccolo fought Frost AFTER his exhausting battle with Goku and Frost is not even on on SSG lvl. He got one demolished by SSJ who is let's say on pair with SSG... so no, frost is not even close. At the end of theirbattle Frost could barely stand still. It is obvious he has been weakened by Goku and not nearly close his full power when vs Piccolo. How close his full power can he be if he cannot stand still couple minutes earlier... Far... very, very far.

So if max power Frost is not on SSG lvl, and when he fought Piccolo he was not even close his full power, would that make him SSG? Nooooooooooo. Frost is way, way weaker then Magetta and Cabba.

Power levels have become so meaningless now.

whatever wants to happen in db happens , there could also be plot where kirillin gets angry and beats the shit out of vegeta in base form some time which would not make any sense at all.

bumping after the recent episode

Lol well Trunks kinda just proved that current ssj isn't nearly as strong as super saiyan god.

@johncena69swag: Lol well Trunks kinda just proved that current ssj isn't nearly as strong as super saiyan god.

No... Are you suggersting Goku suddenly lose control over his ki, and if he goes SSJ its only max power? Just because Goku went SSJ, does not mean he had to use even 1% of it... They do have Ki control you know... Goku proved on many occasions that he can get really "weak" in SSJ if he wants to, or very strong. Beerus also said that max SSJ is not that much different then SSG... he said it way back... Goku still can control his ki...

@johncena69swag: yeah pretty much. TBH the only thing that could explain in my mind is that Goku and Vegeta can selectively choose when to use God Ki.

@emperorthanos: Either that or even simplier explanation, something we have seen many, many times in DBZ. Ki control. He can go SSJ and still lower his KI to minimum basically even zero. He lowered it to match Trunk's KI, just to test him out. It wouldnt be any good test if he used a lot more, that's not how You do tests.

Vegeta was only training Cabba, don't assume Saiyans are equal

That makes the most sense IMO.

You keep making big jumps in order to confirm your initial belief rather than just accepting the simplest answer. I thought the same thing as you before the universal tournament started telling us otherwise.

@johncena69swag: You keep making big jumps in order to confirm your initial belief rather than just accepting the simplest answer. I thought the same thing as you before the universal tournament started telling us otherwise

How is Ki control, the very basic skill not the simplest answer? Can they not lower their pl at their will? Yes they can. Do they always fight at max power? No. Explain to me how is Goku able to lower his PL to cook meet with his KI and not destroy a planet in the process - ki control. Since he can go from destroying a planet to cooking meet, he can just as well go from God lvl to Trunks lvl to match him. Seriously I do not get it, how is controlling own strength not the best and simplest answer. All he had to do is lower his power lvl ( they have done it hundreds of times before )... that is all. SSJ or not, no difference. We saw in DBZ they can still lower it to minimum, as low as basically average human, while being SSJ.

@ad-arts: so you're saying he held back against trunks when he was trying to show trunks how strong he has become? That doesn't make any sense. Do you also believe Vegeta held back against Magetta or do you think Magetta is as strong as a ssg?

@johncena69swag: I am saying he wasnt showing Trunks how strong he has become. He was testing Trunks to see how strong Trunks became... Goku said he is going to test him, he did not say "hey look how op i am now"... He did not go SSB, did he? If i wanted to show someone my strength, i would go straight to max....

Do you also believe Vegeta held back against Magetta or do you think Magetta is as strong as a ssg?

I believe You should pay more attention ;), Magetta's power wasn't the problem, it was the heat. Heat weakened him. But yeah, if we take into account what Goku said to Vegeta, he was holding back, Goku said it.

Please watch the episode again. Goku wanted to spar with trunks to see how he compared to black. It makes no sense for Goku to restrain like 99% of his power.

Holding back most likely means not fighting at full power aka ssb.

@johncena69swag:

Sorry man i got bored, seing as you throw away every single piece evidence, while at the same time having none. You have one reasoning, Trunks fighting Goku, when there is absolutely no reason for Goku to use any real power there.

Evidence to support Trunks is weak.

1. Trunks is not much above Dabura.

2. No reason for Trunks to achieve SSG power level.

3. Trunks training with Gohan. Why would the two be training if Trunks is already matching Goku... Only training of two, somehow comparable characters make sense. Unless... gohan is SSG now too... Since they train together, they are comparable. Trunks is around current Gohan lvl, period.

4. Goku said he wants Trunks to tell him how strong Black is. It is logical he would start with power level similar to Trunks.

5. Vegeta not at all impressed with Trunks.

6. Goku blocked enraged Trunks punch, just after he woke up like it was nothing. If they were comparable, it would look different.

Evidence to support Trunks is strong?

1. None, other then their fight, kowing absolutely nothing about power Goku even used... Goku can control his Ki after all... So no evidence.

So yeah i am done here.

Hey man I'm sorry but I don't think you understood what I'm saying. I don't think Trunks is anywhere near god level. So yeah, while you did a good job proving that I never disagreed. I'm saying that ssj Goku also isn't god level. As emperorthanos said, it appears that they have the ability to sort of turn their god ki on and off at will. That would be a fair explanation for why they can take ssj3 gotenks in base but also fight evenly with future trunks.

@johncena69swag:

Hey man I'm sorry but I don't think you understood what I'm saying. I don't think Trunks is anywhere near god level. So yeah, while you did a good job proving that I never disagreed. I'm saying that ssj Goku also isn't god level. As emperorthanos said, it appears that they have the ability to sort of turn their god ki on and off at will. That would be a fair explanation for why they can take ssj3 gotenks in base but also fight evenly with future trunks.

Basically what you are telling me they simply cannot lower their KI. To you Goku has to turn off God Ki because he is unable to control his power lvl...

1. Goku turning on / off God Ki - not proven

2. Goku manipulating his power lvl at will, from max to basically zero - proven

both would give the same result. Second one is also fair explanationa and it ACUTALLY happened before.

I am starting to think ( actually for a while now ) you are just trolling me.

Id like to bump this thread in light of recent episodes. Elaborating on everything from trunks taking on zamasu to the z fighters thinking people like the likes of krillin or yamcha would have a chance in the tournament of power, because a lot of this seems PI

Just give up on power scaling. It ain't good for your health. You'll kill yourself trying to do so. I've seen DBZ fans o unconscious trying to scale super.

Goku and Vegeta in the manga don't have SBG so they got an excuse. In the anime, idk. Maybe everyone's SBG level, I don't got time to care. I got other series to whine about.