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#1 Edited by guleddos (619 posts) - - Show Bio

Where do they line up in the Lifting department

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I think this is W for the dragonball community, we can finally scale up with a quantifiable lifting feat.

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#2 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2137 posts) - - Show Bio

@guleddos: She did it in the ToP Arena, so she did it in 10 times the gravity of Earth.

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#3 Edited by guleddos (619 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon: 10k tons ez even more nice

Comic heroes don't stand a chance soon

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#4 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2137 posts) - - Show Bio

@guleddos: All we know is that Metal Men weight over 1000 tons, not just 1000 tons.

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#5 Posted by GokuGOAT (100 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku can already lift 40 tons in his SSJ form back then. His base form is way stronger and he doing workouts with a suit on. Typical downplays on strength.

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#7 Posted by Omega_kai (3162 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku already did that in the beginning of the BOG arc.

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#8 Posted by LeonardoTMNT (2797 posts) - - Show Bio

@guleddos: She did it in the ToP Arena, so she did it in 10 times the gravity of Earth.

Isn't the gravity everyone is feeling from their own home world? Was it stated somewhere that the U6 saiyans home planet is 10x of Earth(like Sadala from U7)?

@guleddos said:

@purpledeadragon: 10k tons ez even more nice

Comic heroes don't stand a chance soon

10k tons? While nice I don't think that even remotely comes close to what we have seen top tier comic characters lift.

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#9 Edited by silvanus (895 posts) - - Show Bio

This is why I don't like debates with db characters. Scaling and feats stand at opposite ends of spectrum.

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#10 Posted by cromulor (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like if Vegeta wasn’t holding Super Saiyan Blue in the whole time, because apparantly “even using it at all can drain a ton of power!” back then, he would’ve just went Super Saiyan Blue and lifted Magetta a long time ago. He tried to do it as a Super Saiyan, and he couldn’t. As much as it seems like Goku and Vegeta should be larger than life, by that point in the series it was only like a few years after Goku was unable to move under 40 ton weights while flying. You also have to factor in that Magetta isn’t just a 1000+ ton object, he’s a 1000+ ton being. He’s actually pushing back and resisting to what Vegeta and Kale were doing whenever they made their attempts at lifting him. That’s actually really significant on Kale’s part to actually succeed and it looks easy as well, because Magetta was taking a hard defense against her.

Off Topic, this latest chapter of the manga kind of sucked. I was getting really interested in the manga and have really liked many of their previous chapters and ideas compared to the anime, but this Kale wanking has gone too far. I could’ve lived with the Kale VS Golden Frieza and Blue Goku nonsense, but having Kale be the driving force to waste so many plot points is just... unnecessary and rude to those other characters that plenty of people liked.

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#11 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5587 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice, now they just need to lift planets like a certain someone ;)

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#12 Posted by Straja (673 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: I belive no one lifted planets and also even if someone lifts galaxies what is the point? I am pretty damn sure Goku can destroy anyone who can lift planets or beyond unless they demonstrated fighting capabilities like Goku...when comes to olympic contest goku is underdog but when it comes to fighting even the whole imagination and fiction can line up in a row for beating...

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#13 Posted by Gokublack123760 (71 posts) - - Show Bio

did people suddenly forget that goku survived in a black hole?

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#14 Posted by Avatar_of_Gaea (572 posts) - - Show Bio

If we're talking consistency, why does one low level feat all of a sudden override all the consistent high feats.

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#15 Edited by LeonardoTMNT (2797 posts) - - Show Bio

@straja said:

@joviolma: I belive no one lifted planets and also even if someone lifts galaxies what is the point? I am pretty damn sure Goku can destroy anyone who can lift planets or beyond unless they demonstrated fighting capabilities like Goku...when comes to olympic contest goku is underdog but when it comes to fighting even the whole imagination and fiction can line up in a row for beating...

Superman has done it multiple times, guys on his tier in strength have done it as well. The only advantage lifting strength adds in a fight is when it comes to grapples(overpowering someone physically), so it does have it's use even if not the biggest factor in a fight.

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#16 Edited by Gaoron (8249 posts) - - Show Bio

*manga god tiers

Base anime Goku/Vegeta were already pushing Magetta with power ups alone, doing thousands finger push ups with weights that sink deep underground and stood in the black hole gravity.

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#17 Posted by LegendaryKal-El (168 posts) - - Show Bio
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

I'd much rather have these feats tbh

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#18 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku already lifted himself in a black hole lol

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#19 Posted by kyrees (13506 posts) - - Show Bio

so a showing of kale somehow negates vegeta's showing ? note that this is in the same timeline.

i would rather assume kale is physically stronger than either vegeta or goku.

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#20 Edited by Straja (673 posts) - - Show Bio

@LeonardoTMNT: Sure it does but let me explain this matter through simple example....usain Bolt is fastest man alive but even he is a trash in soccer even in comparison to me...Speed and runing is a great factor in soccer but if you lack knowledge with a ball and team play you cant even play...I trained soccer for 15 years and sure i am slower than usain bolt but my skills with the ball are million times better than his...

Same concept can be applied with lifting strength and fighting...Sure strength is a great factor but in a fight skills and experiance is the most important thing....I never understood for example how people give the edge to superman over goku in fight just becasue of lifting strength...I read somewhere guy literally said superman lifts more he destroys goku....In his mind lifting strength = skills,insticts,experiance,punching power,combat speed,abilities,tehniques,mindset...

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#21 Edited by jplaya2023 (755 posts) - - Show Bio

DBZ isn't about who can lift the most so it's irrelevant

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#22 Edited by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon: You don't actually think that Over 1000 tons means: "Between 1000 tons and infinity"?

No, that's not how it works. 1000 tons is actually a big deal for beerus and goku because the later gave up on the idea that vegeta can lift magetta after he heard that he weighs over 1000 tons

@gokublack123760 said:

did people suddenly forget that goku survived in a black hole?

@scotchbear said:

Goku already lifted himself in a black hole lol

The attack was called "black hole" but it wasn't one. It's like saying that the big bang attack is a real big bang which is ridiculous.

The attack didn't look like a black and didn't act like one.

A black hole isn't actually black. If it has a color, it means it's not a black hole because it relfects light and black hole absorbs anything, even light. And on top of that the so-called "black hole" did glow.

A black hole doesn't push you on the ground.

If it was a real black hole it would have abrorbed the debris of katchi katchin on the ground.

And finally, a black hole doesn't have tiny hearts inside it:

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#23 Posted by Skrskr (3338 posts) - - Show Bio

@zokologue3: it was a gravity well though, light couldn’t escape.

People have already calculated the gravitational forces it would give off by its size.

Every thing we think we know about black holes is entirely theoretical lol so idk what you even mean by “it didn’t act like one”

Light couldn’t escape it

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#24 Edited by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

@skrskr said:

@zokologue3: it was a gravity well though, light couldn’t escape.

People have already calculated the gravitational forces it would give off by its size.

Every thing we think we know about black holes is entirely theoretical lol so idk what you even mean by “it didn’t act like one”

Light couldn’t escape it

There are several problem with what you've said

-Goku's kamehameha did escape it. The "black hole" has free space between each of its tiny hearts.

-Fan calcs are worthless, especially when it comes to dragon ball. I remember people used to say "If we compare the size of "X-thing" with goku's height and if we apply the gravity of king kai planet we find out that goku can lift 8938083dflskhgkjdhgkjqd104138973897049 tons" then the dbs mangas made it pretty clear that vegeta can't lift 1000 tons

-What we know about blackhole is theorical, yes, i agree, but it doesn't mean that an anime, who isn't even scientifically accurate to begin with, knows what a blackhole is. In almost everyother anime/comics the rules of physics are respected.

If scientists says a "A black hole is a region of spacetime exhibiting such strong gravitational effects that nothing—not even particles and electromagnetic radiation can escape from" you have to take it as it is.

Mathematics tought us that 1+1=2. If tomorrow toriyama comes and says "1+1=11" should we believe him?

-And light did escape from it. as you can see, here. It's it's own light, it means that the "blachole produces light". Nope, i say nope.

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Just because this thing is called "black hole" it doesn't mean it's a real black hole. It doesn't even look like a hole, it looks like it's solid.

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#25 Posted by Gaoron (8249 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku already lifted himself in a black hole lol

Yep but seems like Toyotaro writes the characters weaker than Toei atleast lifting wise. Black hole feat was calced at trillions tons so difference is pretty huge.

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#27 Edited by MainJP (5886 posts) - - Show Bio

@purpledeadragon said:

@guleddos: She did it in the ToP Arena, so she did it in 10 times the gravity of Earth.

U6 Saiyans aren’t from Planet Vegeta. The Saiyan’s home planet Sadala hasn’t been stated to have 10 times Earth’s gravity.

DBZ isn't about who can lift the most so it's irrelevant

Neither is DBS I assume.

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#28 Posted by Kratosx64x (1149 posts) - - Show Bio

@zokologue3: Manga and Anime are different continuities. he can lift billions of tons in the anime and it wouldn't translate to the manga. You was one of the guys who didn't went with Jacos statement about the size of the univerese and the milky way although you could see countless galaxies in the anime aswell. Vegetas and Kales feat are manga only so this can't go for both.

The writers intention with the black hole was pretty clear. A gravitational black mass which could absorb light and had a extremly powerful gravitational pull inside of it. Aka a black hole.

When Guy goes to relativistic speeds, the way the space wraps doesn't translate to the real life counterpart aswell. Same goes with Hulk lifting a giant mountain. In real life Hulk would go right through it because the size of said mountain and the natural gravity. Ergo if a writer has a certain intention behind a feat it holds more ground than fans saying "well it is heart shaped and doesn't behave like a real black hole" because almost nothing does. If Supes woudl fly with LS on earth it would wipe out all life on the planet. Did it ever happen in any comicbook so far?

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#29 Edited by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x said:

@zokologue3: Manga and Anime are different continuities. he can lift billions of tons in the anime and it wouldn't translate to the manga.

No he can't. Vegeta weighs 56 kg, according to toriyama. And in DBs he was training at 150 gravity in base form. It took him 10 seconds before he collapses.

56 x 150= 8,4 tons.

Let's apply the super saiyan multiplier which is 10 and not 50

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/seg-story-volume-truth-about-dragon-ball/

8,4 tons x 10= 84 tons.

We are far away from the billions of tons. Don't you agree?

You was one of the guys who didn't went with Jacos statement about the size of the univerese and the milky way although you could see countless galaxies in the anime aswell. Vegetas and Kales feat are manga only so this can't go for both.

You really wanna derail the thread and go on another topic?

The writers intention with the black hole was pretty clear. A gravitational black mass which could absorb light and had a extremly powerful gravitational pull inside of it. Aka a black hole.

When Guy goes to relativistic speeds, the way the space wraps doesn't translate to the real life counterpart aswell. Same goes with Hulk lifting a giant mountain. In real life Hulk would go right through it because the size of said mountain and the natural gravity. Ergo if a writer has a certain intention behind a feat it holds more ground than fans saying "well it is heart shaped and doesn't behave like a real black hole" because almost nothing does. If Supes woudl fly with LS on earth it would wipe out all life on the planet. Did it ever happen in any comicbook so far?

You can't convince me that something who didn't look and act like a black is an actual one just because it's called "Black hole". Otherwise let's just say that goku survived a fictional unscientific dbz black hole, because there is no way that he can survive an actual black hole.

Also, the big bang attack is a real big bang since the attack expands and explodes when it enters in contact with something.

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#30 Posted by Kratosx64x (1149 posts) - - Show Bio

@zokologue3:

No he can't. Vegeta weighs 56 kg, according to toriyama. And in DBs he was training at 150 gravity in base form. It took him 10 seconds before he collapses.

56 x 150= 8,4 tons.

Let's apply the super saiyan multiplier which is 10 and not 50

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/seg-story-volume-truth-about-dragon-ball/

8,4 tons x 10= 84 tons.

We are far away from the billions of tons. Don't you agree?

This was a hypothesis not an actual fact. And the truth isn't what he actually intented but what it actually was. Goku could already boost his PL and stats 20x times. It would be nonsense if ssj would only be a 10x multiplier. Wouldn't close the gap in PL between Frieza 100% and Goku in KKx20.

Run the maths for yourself and check the official numbers to see where it would stand.

You really wanna derail the thread and go on another topic?

No but i love your hypocrisy when it comes to manga/anime continuity.

Vegeta only lifting Magetta in the manga. Nothing like that happens in the anime = canon

Jaco telling that there a countless galaxies in the DB universe and Super Shenron scene shows of multiple/countless galaxies = non canon.

But you are known to use statements, guidebook entries and feats fitting your argument without even considering the other way around.

You can't convince me that a thing who didn't look and act like a black is an actual one just because it's called "Black hole". Otherwise let's just say that goku survived a fictional unscientific dbz black hole, because there is no way that he can survive an actual black hole.

I tried to tell you that real life physics =/= fictional physics.

Supes flying through a large city with LS doesn't mean he kills everything like it would be in real life.

Gai should weight like a planetary orbit to pull of the space bending.

Hulk would sink right through the mountain he lifted because of the size and mass.

What do we know about the Black Hole. It has an extreme gravitational pull. More than 150G's at least. It can absorb light like we could see with 18s attack. It was called "focused into on point to creat a mass of gravity". IT can't escape it, light cannot escape it and is an earth shattering gravitational cage. If the AoE is controlled by the caster the behaviour is pretty much all fitting to a black hole. THIS was the writers intention like clearly told with everything i stated. How is it possible for Supes to hold a miniature black hole which unleashed some of his gravitational pull while NOTHING in the surrounding was pulled in? Better yet this doesn't look or behave like any black hole in any theory but it is accepted because the creators intention is pretty clear. From this point on there are two options:

- Anything in any fictional work should obey the real life counterpart of it. Writers intention, explanations, direct statements or different rules in the fictional work are not considered for the feat at hand.

- If the writer intends something with his explanation, showing, statement and if the rules of the fictional world doesn't equate to our own the shown feat is considered in the way it was planned from the creators.

Anyone who chooses one for a certain series and one for the other is a hypocrit.

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#31 Posted by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

@kratosx64x:

You can't contradict the writer.

He even used the sentence: " My feeling as the creator" which means "I created it, don't pretend to know dragon ball better than me. Tomorrow i'm gonna declare that goku is a transexual, that would explain his high-pitched voice. What are you gonna do about it?"

Jaco telling that there a countless galaxies in the DB universe and Super Shenron scene shows of multiple/countless galaxies = non canon.

But you are known to use statements, guidebook entries and feats fitting your argument without even considering the other way around.

And i did't say non-canon because it's in the mangas.

Toriyama specifacally gave the scenario of dragon ball super of 2 teams: Toei and toyataro and the only to what is canon and what is non is the find the scene in both anime and mangas.

For example: Shenron surrounded by galaxies in the anime is different in the mangas. In the latters he isn't shown surrounded by any galaxy.

Hell, in the final episode of DBS, he was shown to be smaller than he was, in his first appearing which means that it was indeed an exagerration.

Vegeta who can't lift 1000 tons is supported by the anime.

What is non canon in dbs?

-Goku using hakai (mangas only)

-Goku SSB kaioken (anime only)

-Sankaku possesse feline power (anime only)

-Beerus can use unmastered ultra instinct (mangas only)

-Trunks using solar flare (mangas only)

-Hit time-freezing people with his ki (anime only)

...Etc

Anything in any fictional work should obey the real life counterpart of it. Writers intention, explanations, direct statements or different rules in the fictional work are not considered for the feat at hand.

And does the dbs black hole obeys the law of physics? No. Therefore it isn't a real black hole. Get over it, you are making yourself look ridiculous trying to convince me that something who smells like a cat, looks like a cat and meows like a cat is actually an ice cream.

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#32 Edited by Kratosx64x (1149 posts) - - Show Bio

@zokologue3: You are telling me that I can not contradict the writer when YOU are one of the most notorious ppl in CV that always does that BS when it comes to DB? Comedy GOLD!!!!!

He felt that way but It doesn't add up to the numbers and it was the official number in the databooks he gave passage. He felt different about the multiplier but it was never changed. The numbers still hold till this day. If he wanted to retcon it he would have done it long ago and stated it anywhere in a guidebook, in the series or a promo material. If there is nothing retconning the multiplier it stays the way it is.

Dude wtf are you talking about. They were in outer space when they summoned Super Shenron. He grew and as he grew you could see all the galaxies floating around. Super Shenron can alter his size big effing deal. But the main point stands. Both Anime and Manga mentions/shows numerous galaxies.

Vegeta never lifted anything in the DBS anime. You are using his multipliers and his body strength from Z while in the Anime it is shown that a base Vegeta is stronger than a SSJ3 Gotenks. With the OFFFICIAL multipliers (no feelings of any mangaka was hurt) that you can check on every guidebook WITHOUT it ever being retconned by Toei, Toriyama, Toyotaro or anyone else he is way above 1k ton in base already. And even with your numbers he is well above:

56x150=8.4 tons

10x8,4 tons = 84 tons

2x84 tons = 168 tons

4x168 tons =672 tons

This would be base Vegeta with the "feeling" multiplier you want to make canon.

672 tons x 10 = 6720 tons.

As you can see anime Vegeta even with your lowballing is well above 1k tons.

Lets not forget that you as a generous follower of real life physics need to admit that Goku while lifting a water tank the size of a house, pulling weights and lifting weights as big as cars under 10x G and the body suits which sinks continuously through the earth are more than enoug evidence for them to be well above 1k tons.

None of those feats happened in the manga only feat was Vegeta trying to lift Magetta. There is a huge contradiction but let me Guess "FAN CALCS ON DB IS BULLSHIT, I DEMAND REAL LIFE PHYSICS WHEN IT COMES TO THE BLACK HOLE BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS IF THE SAME PHYSICS ARE APPLIED TO OTHER FEATS IN DB".

So If the DB black hole doesn't obey the laws of real life physics what is your thought on the other examples given. And this fictional black hole smells a lot more like an ice cream than a cat for most obejctive persons but as anyone who knows you can tell you are absolutely not. Your bias is well known and even got you banned for a few weeks and got you a lot of warnings in the past. I don't have a problem to claim that a black hole controlled by 3 beings doesn't have to pull everything into it like a real black hole and that it can have differences with a theoretical natural black hole. Just like i have no problem with these:

1.

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Everyone here should die. Clark doesn't have the speedforce so his speed would cause a major catastrophy in this city

2.

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Gai should weight milions of tons for this feat.

3.

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Nothing was sucked up into the black hole even when it bended space around it everything and everyone is fine.

4.

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Under this kind of weight would Hulk sink right into the mountain because of the size difference.

But i can garantuee that you will accept all of that ;) Just like how you are willing to accept real life physics for the black hole in DBS but not for any of these feats:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Or this:

Loading Video...

Remember. Those feats are all calculated with real life physics in mind. So this should pretty much please you if we go by real life physics ;)

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#33 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe it was already calced Goku was >>>>>> this in the beginning of super.

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#34 Posted by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

@zokologue3: You are telling me that I can not contradict the writer when YOU are one of the most notorious ppl in CV that always does that BS when it comes to DB? Comedy GOLD!!!!!

When did i contradict something that comes directly from toriyama? Just give one single example. I'm pretty sure i didn't.

And Toriyama saying "I feel"> Fans saying "i feel"

He felt that way but It doesn't add up to the numbers and it was the official number in the databooks he gave passage. He felt different about the multiplier but it was never changed. The numbers still hold till this day. If he wanted to retcon it he would have done it long ago and stated it anywhere in a guidebook, in the series or a promo material. If there is nothing retconning the multiplier it stays the way it is.

He said "as a writer" what don't you understand in that?

The x50 multiplier comes from daizenshuu and not from him. He contradicted them several times and yet they didn't change their information in their guidebooks which proves how unreliable is daizenshuu.

Dude wtf are you talking about. They were in outer space when they summoned Super Shenron. He grew and as he grew you could see all the galaxies floating around. Super Shenron can alter his size big effing deal. But the main point stands. Both Anime and Manga mentions/shows numerous galaxies.

Alright, you've done it!! You have officially derailed the thread. We were discussing about the so-called "black hole feat" and i've warned you to stay on topic but you don't want to listen. That's a pretty trollish attitude, bro. Your next line is "Agagagagagagag you are the troll, not me!! Louuuule, i'm laughing!!! you hypocrite agagag"

Here is the image from the mangas:

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No galaxy whatsoever

And it's confirmed in the last episode of DBS that super shenron isn't that big and his first appearance was just an exageration:

Loading Video...

If anything, this is a retcon as you said it so well

Vegeta never lifted anything in the DBS anime. You are using his multipliers and his body strength from Z while in the Anime it is shown that a base Vegeta is stronger than a SSJ3 Gotenks. With the OFFFICIAL multipliers (no feelings of any mangaka was hurt) that you can check on every guidebook WITHOUT it ever being retconned by Toei, Toriyama, Toyotaro or anyone else he is way above 1k ton in base already. And even with your numbers he is well above:

56x150=8.4 tons

10x8,4 tons = 84 tons

2x84 tons = 168 tons

4x168 tons =672 tons

This would be base Vegeta with the "feeling" multiplier you want to make canon.

672 tons x 10 = 6720 tons.

As you can see anime Vegeta even with your lowballing is well above 1k tons.

No, i'm using his strentgh feat from DBS:

Loading Video...

And it was never said that the super saiyan 2 multiplier is X2; the super saiyan 3 multiplier is x3 and the super saiyan god is x10. You are just making stuff. Show me where it is said in any toriyama or any daizenshuu book (if you feel using this rubbish book)

Lets not forget that you as a generous follower of real life physics need to admit that Goku while lifting a water tank the size of a house, pulling weights and lifting weights as big as cars under 10x G and the body suits which sinks continuously through the earth are more than enoug evidence for them to be well above 1k tons.

I demand a proof that the water tank is as heavy as you are stating. Where it is stated. Don't tell me "X guy calculated it", give me actual statements.

None of those feats happened in the manga only feat was Vegeta trying to lift Magetta. There is a huge contradiction but let me Guess "FAN CALCS ON DB IS BULLSHIT, I DEMAND REAL LIFE PHYSICS WHEN IT COMES TO THE BLACK HOLE BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGEOUS IF THE SAME PHYSICS ARE APPLIED TO OTHER FEATS IN DB".

Yes, and unless proven otherwise, fan calcs are rejected. We need statements from the anime, mangas or whatsoever. Because whenever there is a "goku is 1000000x time the speed of light because it took him 1 second to travail from A point to B point" toei and toriyama comes and contradict them.

For example, dyspo was stated by to be only lightspeed in the preview of episode 124. And Zeno couldn't watch the fight because he needed an upgraded version of the kamipad to watch it.

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Episode 124 (21 January)

A Stormy, Fierce Attack! Gohan Fights with his Back to the Wall!!

疾風怒涛の猛襲!悟飯背水の陣!!

Shippūdotōnomōshū!Gohanhaisuinojin!!

FujiTV Preview Image

Gohan's in big trouble! What's his comeback strategy?!

Gohan helps out Freeza in his fierce battle against Universe 11's Dyspo. The two are at the mercy of Dyspo's light-speed movement?!

-----------------------------------

So If the DB black hole doesn't obey the laws of real life physics what is your thought on the other examples given. And this fictional black hole smells a lot more like an ice cream than a cat for most obejctive persons but as anyone who knows you can tell you are absolutely not. Your bias is well known and even got you banned for a few weeks and got you a lot of warnings in the past. I don't have a problem to claim that a black hole controlled by 3 beings doesn't have to pull everything into it like a real black hole and that it can have differences with a theoretical natural black hole. Just like i have no problem with these:

*Shake my head hard* I've "debated" with you several times and i know that you won't let it go until you have the last word.

And don't bring DC and Marvel here or else you'll get banned. You know that right? So what's your point? We are talking about the black hole feat, don't give Naruto, Bleach or one piece bus***t.

Toei are grown men/women, they know how to use google. If they wanted to add a real black hole, they would atleast have made one single research about it. But they didn't.

Because they, probably, didn't mean it was a real black hole.

Under this kind of weight would Hulk sink right into the mountain because of the size difference.

But i can garantuee that you will accept all of that ;) Just like how you are willing to accept real life physics for the black hole in DBS but not for any of these feats:

I just don't care, we are talking about dragon ball. I don't know what you are trying to prove.
You see, if a mod happens to be on this thread and see you talking about dc and marvel you'll get banned.

Remember. Those feats are all calculated with real life physics in mind. So this should pretty much please you if we go by real life physics ;)

Lol, what's this video is supposed to prove? I'll soon post a video about cats and puppies and tell you "See, this is the proof that goku can't lift 1000 tons"

You don't get that dragon ball isn't even scientific to begin with.

Atleast the other franchise, while being unrealistic, they try to be as close to reality as possible, which isn't the case with toriyama. Should i remind you that dragon ball is the series where you can breathe in the moon, and there rabbits making rice cake in there (no fake, it's canon)

A series where the smallest the planet, the higher the gravity is (king kai planet).

A series where the louder you scream the more powerful you become

A series where the moon is so close to earth that debris fall on your head when you destroy it (roshi vs great ape goku)

A series where when you destroy the moon, it won't put earth in danger.

A series where the moon respawn everytime after being destroyed (Roshi destroying the moon and piccolo destroying the moon)

A series where the moon is located near earth and yet it doesn't provoke any cataclysm

Naruto too isn't scientific since there was earth without a moon. We all know that the both the moon and earth attracts each other. ;)

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#36 Posted by thegreatlordd (1258 posts) - - Show Bio

@zokologue3:

And it's confirmed in the last episode of DBS that super shenron isn't that big and his first appearance was just an exageration:

What does that mean? We literally see him grow to a size that dwarfs Galaxies. The most logical explanation is that he can control his size for the situation.

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#37 Edited by Kratosx64x (1149 posts) - - Show Bio

@zokologue3: Yep you "debated" with me several times and always draw back after posting enough evidence.

No i will not get banned for bringing up marvel or dc because i just compare the scientific realism of said fictional works. This is not a VS thread nice trying tho. Just let me ask you this for gods sake. Was the one banned because constant BS about DB trolling and lowballing me or you? Oh yes it was you.

You demand??? You can demand whatever tf you want dude but with the size of it alone it is a building sized watertank full with water. There is not even a calculation needed or do you need a calc when someone lifts a f'ing building to see that it is a massive object? Logic tells the whole story nothing.

When did you contradict Toriyamas statements? IDK when you directly said that it is smaller than our universe multiple times while the official guide book states it is as big as ours? When you tried to work with a false translation when it comes to galaxies stating it has only 4 while guide book entries say otherwise?

He said as a writer he felt like it was a 10 times boost but it doesn't add up to the story or to the official PL from the guide books:

No Caption Provided

Gokus PL went from 300.000 to 1.500.000. Does this look like a 10x boost. And why tf should he need a 10x multiplier when he can use KKx20? So he felt different about it BUT it doesn't add up lorewise OR PL wise.

You are a pretty well known troll in CV when it comes to DB. You got enough warnings for that reason already.

Nice try on ditching what i ment with that Super shenron scan. I said that You can see countless galaxies when Super shenron was summoned in outer space and you have Jaco stating that the universe has countless galaxies like the milky way in it. Other than that you have Dainzenshuu entries specifily stating that the universe is infinte in size and has countless galaxies in it. So in 3 different sources there are statements and showings of a massive amount of galaxies in the DB universe yet you are the one trying to deny it on multiple occasions.

Can't find the scans of Daizenshuu right now but i will look for them were the Saiyan multipliers are officially stated.

No, fan calcs are rejected because it won't fit for the anti-DB side when it comes to feats. Dypso giving a solid FTL character like Champa trouble says a lot about his speed. You deny calcs, statements and so on but use TV guides as a reliable source. Nice one. And false again he was stated to be faster than light before the EP preview in the anime direclty by Toppo.

So they are grown up human beings just like the other things i brought up but somehow noone did an actual research. Strange right? Like they don't give a F. about if this is realistic or not or not even about if it follows the laws of physic.

IT absorbs light, has a massive gravitational pull, teleportation out of it doesn't work, it bends light when it flies through it. Please tell me what these properties are other than a description of a black hole?

That video showed massive weightends suits going sinking through the earth continuously. In real life physics this would require massive denisity and weight. There is nothing, big or small, in real life that could accomplish such a showing.

DB isn't scientific but you are the one trying to throw a feat out of the window beacuse of science while at the same time denying other feats because "it is not scientific"

Yeah right they try to be close to reality, like when supes was so fast he travelled back in time, characters breaking the forth wall and travelling through all of fiction, the fontain of youth gives animals the ability to talk, travelling through time with no good explanation at all. Pretty accurate.

The rabbit scene is a gag moment not to be taken serious.

You like Toriyamas statements right? Here is one for the moon:

No Caption Provided

So how far is the moon away from the DB world again?

The moon doesn't respawn. It is wished back mostly.

The Debris of the Moon fall on your head???? It was the arena and the building next to it not the effing moon.

I am wasting my time with you. Even well known users who criticize DB a lot never try to pull that bs with it like you do. Ever wondered why noone other than some known trolls gave you any props for your BS in the first place?

Let's say for arguments sake that the pretty black hole is not a real black hole. Everything else like the water tank, the massive weights, the suits that sunk through the surface of a planet are all undeniable proof for higher lifting strength.

Your hypocrisy shows itself when telling everyone that the manga feat is canon to DBS while nothing like that happend in the anime. Using AT statement about the saiyan multiplier but when it comes to other entries like size of the universe and the number of galaxies in it you are not willing to accept. Using a model to say that the DB verse is only 2 million km long. You are known for these things. I will probably get a warning for calling you a troll but i gladly take it. Because you are a troll and a hypocrit.

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#38 Posted by cromulor (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

I was actually looking back at DBS Episode 107 earlier, you know the one where Magetta and Frost are fighting Super Saiyan Vegeta and Roshi? Funny enough Vegeta’s punches were easily blocking Magetta’s punches whenever they clashed and whenever Vegeta hit Magetta full-on he was actually sending him backwards. HOWEVER, Magetta was still effortlessly blocking all ki attacks that Vegeta was putting out including the Big Bang Attack that Vegeta used. While Anime Vegeta doesn’t outright lift Magetta obviously, he seems to be able to push him almost as casually as Manga Kale does in the latest chapter.

Oh actually, here’s something else interesting to think about: they stated that every competitor of the Tournament of Power would feel the gravity of the arena as being the same as the planet they were born on. I don’t know if that statement exists in both the manga and anime but we can’t apply that to Kale’s lifting feat because we don’t know what the gravity of Sadala is. Also, we don’t know if Kale (or at least manga Kale) was even born on Sadala. It was already confirmed in the manga that the planet that Cabba found Caulifla and Kale on is a different unnamed planet and Kale confirms later to Cabba that Caulifla found her and her group there a long time ago and saved their lives from something. This is all from the manga, mind you. So for all we know Kale could be from somewhere random out in space and I wouldn’t doubt it because U6 doesn’t seem as homogenous as U7 was from what we know about its past. It seems like aliens of all kinds, even Saiyans, are free to go and live wherever they want in U6 and do whatever they want in U6.

I rambled for a bit, but essentially we could actually apply 10x gravity to Vegeta’s feats of moving Magetta with punches in the anime due to Vegeta being born on Planet Vegeta and the statement about the Tournament of Power arena. But on the same light, we can’t apply it to Kale because we don’t know what the gravity of Sadala is or if Kale was even born there.

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#39 Posted by Zokologue3 (730 posts) - - Show Bio

@zokologue3: Yep you "debated" with me several times and always draw back after posting enough evidence.

You seem to think that having the last words means you won. Are you from 4chan?

No, i stopped because you were getting ridiculous, just like now. You are trying to convince me that something who doesn't look and act like a black hole is an actual black hole

No i will not get banned for bringing up marvel or dc because i just compare the scientific realism of said fictional works. This is not a VS thread nice trying tho. Just let me ask you this for gods sake. Was the one banned because constant BS about DB trolling and lowballing me or you? Oh yes it was you.

i wasn't banned for "lowballing" as you said. I was banned once, and blocked for high karma

The first time, i was banned because i've made a non-battle thread on the vs thread titled "what is the most homoerotic scene you've ever seen in a franchise" without posting any sexual picture: Naruto kissing sasuke, bugs bunny kissing michael jordan...Etc I was new, i didn't know the rules

And the second time, i was banned because of salty dragon ball fans. They were massively flagging all anti-dragon ball comments. You can asks the mods about it, they'll confirm it. So my account got locked because of high Karma. I can still connect and post comments with it. The karma must have dropped.

I wasn't the only one who got mass flagged. People started to complain about it and the mods took measures about it and decided to be severe with the mass flagging

You demand??? You can demand whatever tf you want dude but with the size of it alone it is a building sized watertank full with water. There is not even a calculation needed or do you need a calc when someone lifts a f'ing building to see that it is a massive object? Logic tells the whole story nothing.

So no statement or proof. Therefore it's invalid, moving on!

When did you contradict Toriyamas statements? IDK when you directly said that it is smaller than our universe multiple times while the official guide book states it is as big as ours? When you tried to work with a false translation when it comes to galaxies stating it has only 4 while guide book entries say otherwise?

It was never stated that the universe is as big as ours. Nice try.

Also, it's a false translation. The dragon ball databooks states that there is no difference between the word "Galaxy" and "Area". Here is the proof:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19669

I quote: Eventually, the Shinjin take it upon themselves to becomes gods, organizing and overseeing the cosmos. They divide the countless worlds of the universe into four areas, which they term “galaxies”, and name after the cardinal directions: the North Galaxy, South Galaxy, East Galaxy, and West Galaxy. For each galaxy, a Shinjin is chosen by lottery to become a “Kaio”

He said as a writer he felt like it was a 10 times boost but it doesn't add up to the story or to the official PL from the guide books:

No Caption Provided

Gokus PL went from 300.000 to 1.500.000. Does this look like a 10x boost. And why tf should he need a 10x multiplier when he can use KKx20? So he felt different about it BUT it doesn't add up lorewise OR PL wise.

Yeah, that comes directly from daizenshuu and that's why toriyama called them on that, those numbers comes from the daizenshuu after applying the x50 multiplier. What are trying to prove? Do you think before posting something?

You are a pretty well known troll in CV when it comes to DB. You got enough warnings for that reason already.

Only from the perspective of hardcore dragon ball fanboys. I have no problem with any other community.

Nice try on ditching what i ment with that Super shenron scan. I said that You can see countless galaxies when Super shenron was summoned in outer space and you have Jaco stating that the universe has countless galaxies like the milky way in it. Other than that you have Dainzenshuu entries specifily stating that the universe is infinte in size and has countless galaxies in it. So in 3 different sources there are statements and showings of a massive amount of galaxies in the DB universe yet you are the one trying to deny it on multiple occasions.

Jaco's statement is mangas only. Super shenron surrounded by galaxies was an exagerration since it was retconned in the final episode and there were no galaxies surrounding Shenron in the mangas. Next.

Can't find the scans of Daizenshuu right now but i will look for them were the Saiyan multipliers are officially stated.

There isn't, save your time.

No, fan calcs are rejected because it won't fit for the anti-DB side when it comes to feats. Dypso giving a solid FTL character like Champa trouble says a lot about his speed. You deny calcs, statements and so on but use TV guides as a reliable source. Nice one. And false again he was stated to be faster than light before the EP preview in the anime direclty by Toppo.

No fan calcs are worthless, especially when it comes to dragon ball. Every fancalcs to this days has been contradicted. From speed, to strentgh. Which proves that it useless to use calculation with dragon ball

So they are grown up human beings just like the other things i brought up but somehow noone did an actual research. Strange right? Like they don't give a F. about if this is realistic or not or not even about if it follows the laws of physic.

Lol, when they want, they do.

Here is some example of dragon ball writers making some researches:

-Theory of different timelines (Cell saga and Future trunks saga)

-Destroying a planet within it's core

-No nights with a planet with three suns.

...Etc

And what about the "black hole" of dbs? :)

IT absorbs light, has a massive gravitational pull, teleportation out of it doesn't work, it bends light when it flies through it. Please tell me what these properties are other than a description of a black hole?

It doesn't absorb light, it emit it:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

No, the gravity of a real black hole doesn't push to the ground. Helles stated that this technique can be performed when the weight of love is to heavy to bear, those who understand love can control it's weight. Probably a metaphor to tell that the weight of countless tiny little hearts that this "black hole" is composed of, is what made this thing so heavy.

Goku stated "it's like bulma's machine" So far goku only trained in a 100 gravity chamber 62 kg x 100= 6,2 tons. The weight of a black hole is equivalent to 6.6 billions of suns. wether or not it is black hole, it doesn't weighs like a real one.

They intended to win by dropping the pretty black hole on the ground and pushing goku and the android to the other side of the arena.

Yeah, because it is scientifically proved that when you throw a human inside a black hole, he can't instant transmission -_-

It doesn't bend light, unless you think that the kamehameha is just a light technique. It bend ki. You still sea the light emitting from the kamehameha.

No Caption Provided

So no, those are not the propreties of a blackhole. Until now, i was having some kind of respect for you, because, unlike the other, ou didn't try to convince me that this thing was a real black hole because of it's "propreties".

That video showed massive weightends suits going sinking through the earth continuously. In real life physics this would require massive denisity and weight. There is nothing, big or small, in real life that could accomplish such a showing.

Not constantly. I'm not blind, bro. It did stop for a moment. Also, it once again prove that dragon ball is unscientific. Because wasn't sinking while he was wearing it dispite exercising a heavier weight on a smaller area (his feet and his finger)

And no, they were not on earth when they removed their suits. They were on a smaller "planet".

No Caption Provided

DB isn't scientific but you are the one trying to throw a feat out of the window beacuse of science while at the same time denying other feats because "it is not scientific"

You are missing my point. I said "you can't use science to measure something that is unscientifical". I will say it again. So far, every fan calcs has been contradicted by toei, Toyataro and toriyama

Yeah right they try to be close to reality, like when supes was so fast he travelled back in time, characters breaking the forth wall and travelling through all of fiction, the fontain of youth gives animals the ability to talk, travelling through time with no good explanation at all. Pretty accurate.

Oh god, now i understand why you tried to convince me that the pretty black hole is an actual black hole. It's because you know nothing about science. Here, document yourself:

http://www.physicsmatt.com/blog/2016/8/25/why-ftl-implies-time-travel

And what's your point with the fourth wall thing? It has nothing to do with what i was trying to tell you. Breaking the fourth is the writer's intention.

The rabbit scene is a gag moment not to be taken serious.

It's canon, though. Toriyama even stated that the rabbit is still alive and he is levitating in space

You like Toriyamas statements right? Here is one for the moon:

No Caption Provided

So how far is the moon away from the DB world again?

Well, if toriyama said so. then it's 380 000 km. See? I'm not contradicting the writer despite the mangas and anime showing otherwise, unlike you.

The moon doesn't respawn. It is wished back mostly.

Yeah, since it happened before (Kami removed goku's tail so he can restore the moon) i'm gonna accept it

The Debris of the Moon fall on your head???? It was the arena and the building next to it not the effing moon.

My bad, i watched it when i was 8 years old, i didn't rememer it like that

I am wasting my time with you. Even well known users who criticize DB a lot never try to pull that bs with it like you do. Ever wondered why noone other than some known trolls gave you any props for your BS in the first place?

Because i didn't see any so-called "anti-dragon ball trolls" in this thread. And good to know that you consider a troll every single person who criticize dragon ball.

Funny, because everyone else think that the dragon ball community is filled with agressive trolls. Look at you! Getting so worked up because i said that the "pretty black hole" isn't a real black hole. Calm down and take your time to breathe, bro.

. Let's do a test. Type on youtube "Dragon ball community" What do you notice? And type "Dc Community, Superman community, Marvel community, One piece, community...Etc" What do you notice?

In comicvine DC vs DB and Marvel vs DB threads are banned.

In Vsbattles DC vs DB, Marvel vs DB and Saint seiya vs DB threads are also banned.

The name "DB" always comes back, so i guess the problem come from the others.

Let's say for arguments sake that the pretty black hole is not a real black hole. Everything else like the water tank, the massive weights, the suits that sunk through the surface of a planet are all undeniable proof for higher lifting strength.

"Undeniable" lol

Your hypocrisy shows itself when telling everyone that the manga feat is canon to DBS while nothing like that happend in the anime. Using AT statement about the saiyan multiplier but when it comes to other entries like size of the universe and the number of galaxies in it you are not willing to accept. Using a model to say that the DB verse is only 2 million km long. You are known for these things. I will probably get a warning for calling you a troll but i gladly take it. Because you are a troll and a hypocrit.

I didn't say that the mangas feat is canon, God! I said no matter what version you takes, mangas or anime, Vegeta can't lift 1000 tons. Understood? I bet not, otherwise this discussion would have ended sooner.

You can call me whatever you like, i won't report you. I've heard far worse than "Troll" coming from the dragon ball community of comicvine.

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#40 Posted by Avatar_of_Gaea (572 posts) - - Show Bio

Love how people try getting all rocket science physics about fictional shows that literally don't even attempt to apply physics