Can we stop with the suppression excuse?

SSB having perfect ki control is irrelevant as he had perfect ki control in his base form on Namek.

Also it just seems to be the go to excuse and it's only unique to him. Goku losing a fight? "He was suppressed"

It's like if you beat your friend in a video-game and then they come back with "I let you win" it's nonsense.

Unless he outright says he's suppressed than I see no reason to believe that he is.

Not really, as long as Goku is not stated to be full power and he loses to people way below his tier its PIS and should be ignored. 99% of Flash rogue gallery would be damntylion times light speed if we go by what your saying. Characters like that always hold back for story purposes.

To be fair, I think perfect ki control is something that needs to be achieved with every form. Like when Goku and Gohan turned SSJ into their natural state.

SSB doesn't allow for the "weeping"of ki like the regular Super Saiyan forms. So if has better ki control. But even then, they had to master it, thus the recent intro of the Mastered Spider Saiyan Blue (MSSB).

But I agree on the holding back thing. I personally think it's just the only explanation the hard core power level guys have for all the inconsistencies in Super.

ssb is as strong as krillin

The suppression of Ki makes no sense whatsoever. Yes he can control the amount of Ki he throws out sure, but in situations like against 17 and Kale where he was quite clearly trying, it doesn't make any sense for him to surpress his power if he has another form weaker than SSB.

People just hate anyone "irrelevant" suddenly being as strong as Goku.

In situations like say Goku vs Krillin, obviously he can throw out an attack that's holding back, but it makes no sense for him to put this amount of effort if he's only holding back and SOMEHOW severely suppressing his power.

For example, people are saying Android 17 is nowhere near Goku because of this theory, but if Goku was so much stronger and was suppresing his Ki, why would he need this much effort just to clash with 17? Couldn't he easily block his punches or clash with him without having to show any form of strain? Plus like I said he could have just went into a weaker form.

This is as stupid as people making up some insanely stupid BS about characters being immune to hax based off vague statements from Whis and Vados during the Hit vs Goku fight.

I agree. Goku has mastered his base, as well as his SSJ form. Like you said, too many people use the whole; "Goku uses SSJB because of perfect ki control" when they want to low ball another character. Heck, today there was this Goku fan I was going back and forth with who said Goku is stronger than Jiren(even though everything suggests otherwise), I pointed out the preview for the next episode clearly showing Jiren having the clear advantage over Goku. And you know his response? You guessed it; "Goku is using his SSJB form to test Jiren, you know.. perfect ki control. He's vastly holding back". There isn't enough facepalm for some people, I freaking swear.

I agree with this as well, but only to an extent. Context is everything. Goku doesn't always use SSJB just to test someone, sometimes it's because his lower forms aren't enough for the presented challenge(even if he is holding back in his SSJB form). Like I said, context for why he uses SSJB against someone is everything.

Why does Goku need to be at full power just to make you happy? Im surprised you still watch the series then because hes been doing this for my entire life.....

@rolexeo: Except disregarding this would disregard the main components of ki in regards to fighting other people, people with relative power levels can fight each other which is exactly in line with why scouters became extinct because they don't just go walking around powered up they lower their ki and flare it to different levels to suit the threat.

@Trndo: Because if you're in your final form and losing the fight it makes more sense that you're weaker, not that you're suppressed. If you had to suppress yourself that means you should be winning the fight

It's similar to Frieza playing with Goku during the Namek Saga where he had him believe that he was only around his level when in reality he was holding back a lot of his power just for the giggles.

@rolexeo:

I totally agree.

The SSB perfect Ki control was just Toei's excuse to do with Goku and Vegeta what they damm well pleased.

Goku's losing..."He wasn't at full power". And that's just the lamest excuse ever. More so because of the perfect Ki control. If nothing else it should allow for Goku to raise his Ki as he wished, in a instant. Like with Kale and so many others. Even if Goku failed to grasp the real Ki, his opponents have, he should be able to adapt instantly. But he never does.

Also it's double lame seeing Goku already had perfect Ki control in his base and SSJ1 form.

In order to use the Kaioken like Goku stated, one needs perfect Ki control.

And while training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, he was able to fully master SSJ1. To such a degree, I'd dare to say he could've added the Kaioken to it. But because he was so confident of Gohan being able to take up the mantle, I believe he neglected his own training. We all saw how he was able to sustain the SSJ1 form, from when he exited the Chamber, till the fight against Cell. Maybe if he had gone a second time to the Chamber, only this time alone. And worked on his skills, he would've either achieved SSJ2 or tried to add the Kaioken to the SuperSaiyan form. The result would be pretty much the same. Seeing SSJ2 only granted a x2 multiplier. Something that should've been a piece of cake to Goku. Seeing he had already used Kaioken x20 in the past.

But now. They came up with this BS excuse of perfect Ki control, in order to say, he can be power wise, from SSJ1 to the max power of SSB. Which is okay to me, except when I see Goku not really doing what SSB should allow him to do.

So yes. The holding back excuse is getting tiresome, and was purposely setup to be used as an excuse.

Kinda like they never bothering to explain why Goku doesn't use SSG more often. Like he did against Dyspo. Or also not bothering to explain how exactly does SSB works. We know it's god Ki channeled through SSJ1. But we got no idea how effective it's. Does it allow for 100% use of SSG and SSJ1?! Or is the god Ki limited somehow, by the SSJ1?! Seeing that in SSG, Goku could heal himself, but in SSB he can't.

Can't wait to see the new excuses they're gonna come up with, for the upcoming new form.

@heavenlydarkdragon: You mixed ki control with stamina, they are not the same.

All of you are dumb. It's been like that since DB and you guys are starting to throw a fit. Suppression has always been a thing since DB. Stop whining about it and know that Goku's suppresses his Ki against weak opponents, since he beaten that one big fat mustache guy on DB with a touch. If suppression wasn't a thing, then Goku would of killed Krillin in his base form. Stop whining about it and yes it gets annoying sometimes.

A writer of Super said Goku goes Blue to Motivate his opponents...

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/879509057622507520

Except back in Z no one was making excuses for someone either;

A. giving Goku a good fight(even if Goku was holding back). Frieza after Goku turning SSJ being an example.

B. showing to be on par/or just below him in power

Basically anytime Goku uses SSJB against anyone not named Vegeta or Beerus/ "Oh man, Goku was holding back. He was only using 0.000001% of his power". Mind you, there isn't any proof backing Goku holding back that much in any instance.

For example; Goku VS Kale. Sure, we all know Goku was holding back in his SSJB form against her, that much is clear. But why is it some people say she's only just above SSJ2 in power? Like.. what? Based on?

I'm not complaining about Goku holding back, that's part of his MO. Hell, guys like Superman, Thor, and even Flash(probably even more so than the other guys) hold back on a normal basis.

The only thing that has gotten annoying is the extreme low balling of certain characters. Like I mentioned above, you had a guy trying to low ball Jiren of all people, he claimed Goku will be only using like 25% of his true power. Even with the spoilers we have been given in regards to Jiren. Some Goku fan's are flying higher than the clouds, I swear.

@LeonardoTMNT: You must believe Frost is stronger then Goku because he beat him in the U6/U7 tournament. You must also believe Krillin is SSB level, and you must also Frieza goonie is stronger for taking Goku with a lazer lol. You don't understanding the writing of the show. You might also think Master Roshi is stronger then Frost since he pushed him back.....lol.....

Why would any of my posts lead you to believe any of the above. As I said with my first post; "Context" is key. Goku had already overwhelmed Krillen while using SSJ in their training session. So it's pretty clear Krillen isn't SSJB level, not even close to it. In Frost's case, he got dominated by SSJ Goku, he only won because of his needle tranquilizer. Why would anyone in their right mind think Frost is SSJB level? The whole laser thing only happened because Goku was caught off guard. All of those examples you listed above are plain bad for the point I was trying to make.

I'll go back to the Kale VS Goku bout. The fight started with Goku in his SSJ2 form, after getting ransacked he transformed to his SSJB form. At what point in that fight did Goku hold an advantage? I certainly didn't see one. True, Kale did not do any real damage to Goku, but on the flip side Goku couldn't even mange to push her back, not even a little. He didn't damage Kale either. That in the least to me puts Kale in the ball park of SSJB. To expand on that, since she didn't do any real damage to SSJB Goku I'd say she's far below Goku at his max; Kaio Ken X10/X20, but above all of Goku's transformations beneath SSJB.

Saying Krillen and Frost are far beneath SSG tier is perfectly fine, and accurate. Saying Kale is SSJ2 tier to only slightly above it is low balling at its finest.

Why do you still have Kale below SSB Goku though? That's where you're losing me

Who me? I believe she is in the SSJB tier. Just not as strong as max Goku.

@LeonardoTMNT: I can understand if you dont think shes kk tier but she beat SSB Goku

Then we seem to be in agreement

@gaoron:

Actually I'm not mistaken. You do know the concept of Ki, right?

Ki is a manifestation of the physical and mental used together.

So stamina is as separated from Ki, as your skin is separated from your blood.

Here you go... http://japanology.org/2016/05/what-is-ki/

@heavenlydarkdragon: Im talking about ki control not ki as a whole.

This ^^^

Goku was never damage and somehow didn't give a damn. Also how did 17 surpass a Buu was later told be one of strongest villain in the Z arc? Don't tell me within a 3 year mark he surpass a Majin Buu who fought a SSJ3 Goku. Also so you're telling me a Buu who was half SSJ3 level with no training, then got in shaped/trained and looked like he was fighting almost equally against a base form Goku. Then somehow 17 who was low tier SSJ level surpass everything in Z other than fusions in 3 years and fought Goku in SSB. Don't tell a 17 is somehow has more potential than a guy who was half SSJ3 level without training who barley fought a base form Goku who trained for hours. If Frieza got strong within 4 months, then how come Buu who has 1000000 times the potential than Frieza can't get much stronger. Roshi fought base form Goku so that means he is base form level and can one shot Namek Frieza with your logic.

Whose to say he can't? Buu only trained for a couple hours and was able to throw hands with base Goku, hell I'd even go as far to say he held the slight advantage. Just imagine if he trained for four months like Frieza did.

If we are to say Goku's current base is god tier(which seems to be the general consensus), then that clearly puts 17 in the god tier class, since he bested current SSJ Goku. That would also apply to Gohan. Whether it makes sense or not is another story in itself.

The androids were made to be superior to Saiyan's, so whose to say their potential isn't greater? I'm not the writer, so I can't answer all of that. But let's not kid ourselves, as far as power levels are concerned all logic was thrown out the door since Super began.

Let us all sit back and sip some sweet tea and just enjoy the show, lol

And how were Humans designed to be stronger than Frieza one of the most powerful characters in the arc???

They just said it... there you go. It was an excuse only for lowballers... Its what Goku does, and been doing through all the series, and now it is again confirmed...

I guess Goku was suppressing his power against Jiren too huh?

@deathhero61: Jiren is said to be GoD level or even above. We all know that a serious Beerus would stomp Goku in SSB. Same goes for Jiren if everything said is true

@rolexeo: one thing we know is goku is a jobber in 90% of his fights, look at jiren fight. This fool starts off in base lol. Honestly he should've been killed *shrugs*

Well I think it might be realistic to assume he doesn't use all his power in fights he doesn't see are all thst worth when he needs to save energy. And I think about it this way. Frieza was able to use a small percentage of his power on namek to toy with everyone and beerus is known to only use slight percentages of his power during fights. Goku probably can do this too. I think it's safe to assume goku didn't go all out against kale otherwise why didnt he instantly lose to jiren? And also goku did seemingly get rag dolled but remember when vegeta rage boost fought beerus he got good hits in like kale. But still wasn't near his level.