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#1 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku is resistant to time hax, can move during stopped time, is mftl and has instant reaction speed and movement, is a galaxy-multigalaxy buster, has galaxy level durability

Vegeta has galaxy level durability and resisted an existence erasing attack, is a galaxy+ buster, mftl, can beat a low level GoD

Jiren is stronger than time (immune to time hax), is a multigalaxy buster easily, has multigalaxy level durability, mftl, can freeze/stop enemies and attacks with eye had

Is this enough to classify them as skyfathers?

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#2 Edited by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

No, i would say they are Transcendent level.

Jiren at low-skyfather level.

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#3 Posted by deactivated-5b9c488ed7f76 (10909 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku and Vegeta can't survive in space(which is quite stupid and it limits all the fights to planetary realm).


Jiren is Skyfather level.

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#4 Edited by LordWhis2 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: More like celestial level.

Honestly, even Red SSG God from Battle of gods was well above skyfather level.

They have feats well beyond multigalaxy level. Suppressed Jiren was noted to be stronger than fused Zamasu who had completely taken control of his universe's space time continuum & was leaking into other timelines.

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#5 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics: lol so jiren who honestly is probably universe+ DC and durability and is immune to time is below Odin?

Every Odin vs Jiren battle I've read on Reddit has jiren casually one shotting Odin....

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#6 Edited by deactivated-5b9c488ed7f76 (10909 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordwhis2 said:

@scotchbear: More like celestial level.

Honestly, even Red SSG God from Battle of gods was well above skyfather level.

Skyfather who dies due to a lack of air and also as SSJB he almost drowned.

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#7 Edited by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: Most of the reddit users ignore hax and consistency. Jiren is nowhere near Universe level, and he's below Odin who could do the following things to kill him:

Manipulate his soul.

TP him.

BFR him into another dimension.

I would say Jiren is at DP Tyrant to Starbreaker level.

Most of the characters at his tier or below could beat him through hax.

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#9 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics: lowballing jiren to below universe level lol....

Beerus and Champa are both universe Busters and jiren could one shot them tbh.

Jiren has already shown to be completely immune to time hacks, Odin would try to mess with jirens mind and he'd just eye glare Odin into dust....

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#10 Posted by Yabuturtle (230 posts) - - Show Bio

You know the gods in Dragon Ball are really not that impressive compared the the deities in the marvel universe. Gods can destroy anything and angels can create stuff and rewind time, but they are mostly just super strong and super fast. I haven't seen them warp reality, go back even further in time other than 3 minutes, or utilize cosmic energy like Galactus. And they are definitely no match for the abstract deities, too. Even Grand Priest isn't.

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#11 Edited by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordwhis2: this should silence any doubters tbh...

They pretty much said "you know that immortal guy who became the universe and started going to other timelines, ya jiren bodies him" lol

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#12 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: Yep you said it, Beerus and Champa are universe level when they battle each other, wanna know why? because they are consistantly shown to be at that level, we can't say the same thing about Goku. SSG Performing the same feat is an outlier. Unless you think Krillin, Roshi, Gohan and 17 are universe level.

Being immune to time hax doesn't make you universe level. Characters below Jiren have done the same.

Yeah right, Odin stomps Jiren by feats and hax, deal with it.

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#13 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by Skrskr (3324 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: lol jiren could one shot beerus? What makes you think that ludicrous thought?

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#15 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics: jiren was directly stated to be above any GoD while he was heavily suppressed.....

The dude made Beerus crap his pants when he let out a tiny amount of his power.... Jiren is far far above Beerus and Champa.

Jiren also made infinity shake lol

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#16 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@shenron007: jiren is directly stated to be the mortal stronger than the GoDs

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#17 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: Infinite shake isn't combat applicable. Superman shaked the entire universe too, he isn't universe level. Jiren is still below Beerus by feats, and is way more versatile than Jiren who is just a brick.

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#18 Edited by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics: jiren is stated in the show that he is stronger than the GoDs.........

Shaking infinity is a far better feat than shaking a universe

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#19 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: You're repeating the same thing.

Again, shaking infinity isn't combat applicable. It doesn't even make sense.

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#20 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics: so you're opinion overrides writer and character statements?

And it's a cartoon, it doesn't have to make sense

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#21 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics: you're just a lowballing dbz hater who is in denial that dbs characters are universe+ Busters and have hax resistance now. It's ok. Let the rage flow through you

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#23 Posted by Dession_Viper (742 posts) - - Show Bio

They're low herald at best.

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#24 Posted by Royal_Warrior (5060 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: no he was stated to be more powerful than his own GoD not all GoD

Whis even said "perhaps even surpassed one" and then the camera pans to Belmond

The fact he's being shown to be inferior to UI shows that he isn't more powerful than most GoDs

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#25 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: Wow, how did you know that? are you a mentalist?

:((

Actually, i'm a DB fan.

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#26 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@royal_warrior: the GoDs are below UI as well. Manga beerus was using a crappy version of UI and he was slapping 11 GoDs at once.

Whis' quote was

"Like a god of destruction, he is the one who has reached that level, perhaps even surpassed it" this was heavily suppressed jiren.

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#27 Edited by Godren (3652 posts) - - Show Bio

Comicbook power rankings have no relation to how strong DB characters are.I don't understand the obsession with trying to place non comic book characters using comic book power placements lol.

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#28 Edited by GokuAndSuperman (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics: You say it doesn't make sense since it's fictional story about color hair buffed alien men fighting buff aliens. Plus Beerus and Champa fight alone can destroy to universes. So tell how Jiren isn't close to universal? He never power up to shake the world of void. He simply let out his Ki and it shaking it. So Jiren shaking the world of void just by presence is impressive feat. First time Jiren actually power up was to stop Goku's UI punch. I always scaled SSG Goku to half universal and SSB X20 being close to it actuall universal level. So jiren and MUI Goku are universal. Plus UI is form/ technique and show already proves that it is. Because the dodging part of it is the technique, while attacking part is the power. So MUI Goku is above Beerus since Beerus can't master it. So they aren't gonna hype a form that Beerus can't master and yet still be stronger. Sorry but Beerus is surpass next episode and you could make any excuses you want.

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#29 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

There's more to being a skyfather than just how much you can destroy.

Goku, Vegeta and Jiren are mostly devoid of any hax and don't have many quantifiable combat speed feats that place them comfortably above LS.

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#30 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

@gokuandsuperman: Jesus, calm down.

I already said why Beerus is above Jiren. And my opinion will be the same until i get a clear confirmation that Jiren>> Beerus.

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#31 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: You are wrong, wrong, wrong xd.

When whis said that line, he said "god of destruction" not all god of destructions. Also when Whs saying that line the camera faded to belmod. Beerus is stronger than belmod, so is the mouse god. Beerus is to much for Jiren lol. nice try.

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#32 Edited by deactivated-5b9c488ed7f76 (10909 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin said:

There's more to being a skyfather than just how much you can destroy.

Goku, Vegeta and Jiren are mostly devoid of any hax and don't have many quantifiable combat speed feats that place them comfortably above LS.

Actually there is a chapter in Super Manga, where Jiren travels from a distant Planet without his ship, because it is the fastest way, i think he is probably Whis level of speed or at least millions of times faster than light and MUI Goku is probably going to be faster than Jiren.

Jiren's shtik is no-selling, if he were to face Odin or another skyfather, he would no-sell their attacks, he doesn't really need hax to be Skyfather level.

Goku on the other hand, even with MUI, tremendously faster than light, Kaioken, Instant transmission and a bullload of other abilities, would still not be Skyfather level, because he can't even survive in space.

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#33 Posted by GokuAndSuperman (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@death2heretics: If Jiren can go neck to neck with MUI Goku, then yes he would.

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#34 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

@crash_: crossing from one universe to another would be more than just million times ftl lol it would require numbers beyond human comphrehension definitly infinite or above.

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#35 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@crash_:

Traveling from planet to planet wouldn't necessarily require millions of times FTL travel speed, and even still, that is only travel speed. I don't believe there is enough evidence to put him on the level of the Angels in any way, shape or form.

Odin would defeat Jiren and the GoDs soundly from what I understand. Jiren isn't n o-sellin g his attacks at all.

Instant Transmission is instant. It doesn't involve Goku's own speed, which is ambiguously FTL by this point most likely if we scale him from Dyspo. His actual hax that can be applied in combat is laughable to other skyfathers characters. IT and Solar Flare being the most useful, imo.

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#36 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@shenron007: it also says the GoD beat by a mortal is stronger than Beerus. Losing arm wrestling means in raw strength belmod is stronger than beerus

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#37 Edited by MasterSkywalker (3609 posts) - - Show Bio

They're one trick ponies with energy and nothing else and no amount of resistances, versatility or Skyfather damage output. They'd be lucky enough to be in wonder woman's tier as they are atm.

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#38 Edited by MainJP (5881 posts) - - Show Bio

No. One trick ponies.

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#39 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

They're one trick ponies with energy and nothing else and no amount of resistances, versatility or Skyfather damage output. They'd be lucky enough to be in wonder woman's tier as they are atm.

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#40 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10415 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterskywalker said:

They're one trick ponies with energy and nothing else and no amount of resistances, versatility or Skyfather damage output. They'd be lucky enough to be in wonder woman's tier as they are atm.

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#42 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio

@shenron007: how am I making stuff up? I'm quoting direct lines from the show. You guys are the ones implying everything.

Whis says the GoD is stronger than Beerus, and the mortal is stronger than the GoD.

That means Jiren>Beerus

Jiren is going to fight MUI Goku. You think Beerus could fight MUI Goku and not get roflstomped?

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#43 Edited by deactivated-5b9c488ed7f76 (10909 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin said:

@crash_:

Traveling from planet to planet wouldn't necessarily require millions of times FTL travel speed, and even still, that is only travel speed. I don't believe there is enough evidence to put him on the level of the Angels in any way, shape or form.

Odin would defeat Jiren and the GoDs soundly from what I understand. Jiren isn't n o-sellin g his attacks at all.

Instant Transmission is instant. It doesn't involve Goku's own speed, which is ambiguously FTL by this point most likely if we scale him from Dyspo. His actual hax that can be applied in combat is laughable to other skyfathers characters. IT and Solar Flare being the most useful, imo.

To be able to hax a Dragon Ball Character, you need to have a higher power level than them or be at least around the same level. Jiren is Skyfather power level wise.

Also if the DB universe is anything like ours, planets with life support should be well, well far from one another. so millions is lowballing.

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#44 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10415 posts) - - Show Bio
  • SSG Goku is a casual universal+ buster.
  • Beerus is miles beyond SSG Goku meaning he is at bare minimum a casual multi-universal+ buster and > 80% of comics.
  • Jiren =/> Beerus >>> 80% of comics.

And Odin >> Jiren ? 🤔🤔

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#48 Posted by Scotchbear (2114 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@crash_ said:
@thedarkpaladin said:

@crash_:

Traveling from planet to planet wouldn't necessarily require millions of times FTL travel speed, and even still, that is only travel speed. I don't believe there is enough evidence to put him on the level of the Angels in any way, shape or form.

Odin would defeat Jiren and the GoDs soundly from what I understand. Jiren isn't n o-sellin g his attacks at all.

Instant Transmission is instant. It doesn't involve Goku's own speed, which is ambiguously FTL by this point most likely if we scale him from Dyspo. His actual hax that can be applied in combat is laughable to other skyfathers characters. IT and Solar Flare being the most useful, imo.

To be able to hax a Dragon Ball Character, you need to have a higher power level than them or be at least around the same level. Jiren is Skyfather power level wise.

Also if the DB universe is anything like ours, planets with life support should be well, well far from one another. so millions is lowballing.

Not always. There have been instances where hax prevails against characters with higher power levels and that isn't a rule that should apply to cross-universe battles anyway, hence the reason we go by feats. Some examples I can think of off the top of my head: Ginyu's body swap, Guldo's paralysis and time stop, Babidi's mind control, etc..

There are estimates putting the number of planets that exist in a habitable zone and therefore, could sustain life in the hundreds of millions. Depending on the distance between said planet and the timeframe it took (unknown for both), the result could yield anywhere from thousands to millions of times FTL or even higher. There's simply no way to accurately quantify it.

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#50 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio