The Character Assassination of Dick Grayson

@mysoulz Indeed. If/When Dick becomes Nightwing again, I still hope they recreate the Bludhaven scenario. I honestly thought that city suited him perfectly. Close enough to Gotham for him to realistically visit every now and again, but far enough away that Dick wasn't in Bruce's shadow. His work with the police force and his cast were also well done.

btw. did the Crowne-family (the family of Dicks great-grand mother) ever appear before or after the Court of Owls?

Abd i'm still wondering if Bruce, Dick, Hush and Pinguin are somehow related since they were all belong to one of the big families of Gotham.

I'm more than sure he'll become Nightwing again, but I highly doubt it'll be anytime soon. I agree. Hopefully the cast and setting will be more consistent this time around. I believe Kyle Higgins was a good writer for the Nightwing series, but at times I found some of the characters that were featured was heavily short and a little rushed. The Mirror Market is one of the examples that I wished he extended the story arc for much longer. But as you said, the problem is most of these are tied to Batman. We also didn't hear much of Dick's history when he was Robin and Batman. Hopefully Nightwing will just start off completely fresh and be a character that isn't tied to anyone.

If Dick Grayson were to become Nightwing again, what exactly would he be coming back to and how would it help Dick grow as a character?

Beyond the Bat Family and his friends he wouldn't be coming back to anything more than he'd be leaving, as everything he'd built up previously was erased by Flashpoint. Pre-Grayson everything he'd built up after Barry Allen screwed all of creation was systematically dismantled, mishandled, and then blown to hell by the Joker. Returning him to Nightwing writers would then have to build him up once again, with the specific direction depending on whether they want him to remain in Gotham or not.

In terms of character growth, long lasting characters like Dick and Bruce don't do much of that. They're fairly static. Best you'll see are storylines where they're pushed to the absolute limit, brought down low, yet manage to rise up again as heroes. I'd personally enjoy seeing some effort put into expanding on his days as Robin, early days as Nightwing, and from there flesh out the rest of his relationship with other members of the DCU. Have him join a team, or send him on a training trip for a while to sharpen up his skills. Beyond that it would mostly consist of what people mentioned previously, building up a solid supporting cast and rogues gallery.

But they also doing this with Bruce (and lots of other Characters) all the time, the only difference is that his setting, rouges gallery and support cast is so established that they usually bring it back to normal after some time.

And somehow i think that DC is not interested in giving Charcters really long lasting settings, either they have already one like Batman or Superman, or they get something new every few years.

As you said, Bruce's cast, setting, and rogues gallery are firmly established. Even after a reboot i'd say 95% of them return, though perhaps changed to some extent. The hardest thing is therefore just updating them for a new generation/universe, but not actually creating new stuff altogether. Even when his life goes down a bad route, and he's being the loner for a while, his Rogue's gallery is still there, as are the trappings of his life, and even his supporting cast if he bothers to talk to them. With Dick, he tried to build up Haley's Circus, Joker bombed it out of existance. And the people he was interacting with were just killed off or taken out of the picture. That's then somewhat more extreme then what happens to Bruce. Look at the Joker, or Ra's Al Ghul. They might "die" every now and again, but they Always return. Blockbuster never did.

I agree with you though, it does seem like they prefer to have some characters constantly be on the move. I get it, but I don't really like it.

It's not just the reboot, I mean how often was Gordon retired in the last 25 Years and than became Commissioner again, and how many times they were not talking and became friends again?

And even Noman's Land didn't had any long lasting consequences for Gotham, after the "New Gotham"-Staorarc was over, Gotham was exactly the same than before, and still full of old run down Buildings even if they were theoretically all destroyed in the Quake ...

In the last two decades Bruce constantly changed from loner to team player and back, I really hope they stop this at some point.

Dick Grayson is a legacy character, he should never, ever be static. If there is stagnation in Dick Grayson's character development, then it is imperative that editorial put the character in situations that would lead to growth, for example when he became Batman at the end of pre-52 universe.

Dick Grayson returning to Nightwing could work if there was anything relevant about the persona in the new 52, like Peter Parker returning as Spider-Man after SSM. However, if the transition back to Nightwing would involve DC ONCE AGAIN trying to build his supporting cast and rogues gallery from the ground up, it would only compound the problems that the character has had since he became Nightwing, which was a lack of a solid, consistent supporting cast and rogues gallery.

I think it's more important for DC now more than ever to take a certain approach with Dick Grayson (including supporting cast and rogues gallery) and stick with it. Since the current direction is him as a a super spy, and it's been successful so far, then they should keep going down that path.

I'm just stating a fact. For the most part, all DC's major characters are static and don't change. Bruce is the same way, and they've both been like this for a long time. Becoming Batman was great, but it wasn't a permanent change, and things soon returned to the regular status quo, just like they always do. Like right now, with Gordon being Batman. That's not going to last and no one expect it too. Nor wil the Joker being "dead".

The problem in my opinion is that DC's succeeded before when Dick was in Bludhaven, however they destroyed it and eventually had Dick leave the city entirely. Given his later situation in New York, and then in Gotham, and then in Chicago, i'm actually quite tempted to agree with @aahz in that his natural state, if anything, seems to be as a character that isn't set in any one role. In terms of success however, it doesn't matter whether he's a spy, Nightwing, or Batman, as his series has pretty much always done well. Sales right now haven't changed from what they were previously.

Except in the case of Dick Grayson, it is not a fact and is actually the complete opposite of his greatest attribute. Personal growth is arguably the most important aspect of his character.

You're misunderstanding what I mean by static. I'm not saying that he doesn't change, just as i'm not saying that Batman and Superman even don't go through changes. I'm saying that for the most part the characters of all three, and others, are consistent. Unlike Dick also, the casts, rogue galleries, and settings of many others are also static. Changes will occure, there'll be some shakeups, but for the most part once the dust has settled things are as they were before. Dick's obviously not the same boy he was when he was first created. He's become Nightwing, been Batman twice (Or once, don't think Prodigal is canon anymore) and is now a spy. Yet since becoming Nightwing who he is as a character has been pretty much set in stone, static and consistent. He's had his blockbusters and his chemo's, times where things have brought him low, but he picks himself back up and returns to the person he was before, having come through it all. That's what I mean by static. Even now, he hasn't changed as a character just because he's not wearing a costume anymore. He's still the same person he's been for decades.

@nathaniel_christopher: At your original post. I really don't think that his relationships have so much changed, his relation with Bruce and Damian seems to be the same as pre Flashpoint. It was mentioned that he was one team with at least some of the old Titans (according to RHatO#1 Roy, Kori, Garth, Dustin, Vic, Lilith and Gar, even if I have no idea who Dustin is). And he had realtionships with Kory and Barbara.

The real difference is just that since the beginning of the new 52, doesn't interacted with anybody apart from Bruce, Damian and Barbara since he was not in any team book (and even in his old Solo titles there were rarely cameos of other heros).

In my opinion he changed much less than Tim and or Barbara.

By the way I there is an first original draft for Nightwing #30 where you see his funeral, where you see how his friend and family are remembering him, and it looks still quite pre flashpoint for me.

I like him more as a spy.

Looking back at it I noted in the original post the his relationships with Bruce and Alfred hadn't changed. His past relationship(s) with Barbara were retconned however, as was his relationship with Tim. He's never had an official relationship with Barbara, with it instead being referred to as both of them never being in the right place at the right time for it to actually happen. In fact, it's after I made that that Tim came out and stated that instead of Dick, Jason's the closest thing he has to a brother. I also pointed out the relationship with Kori and the past teamups in the original post as well.

Also commented on the draft from the funeral, which was after the original post as well, in other threads. The post was of course based on the current information at the time.

It's pretty much just Roy and Kori now. Garth hasn't left Atlantis, Vic only left the watchtower for League business, Gar and Liliths things likewise preclude them from being on superheros teams before TT started as well.

And not being BFF with Donna and Wally, no having nearly married Barbara and Kori and not having founded the Teen Titans is a big change.

@denam_pavel: I must addmitt I mostly read his Nightwing series and except Barbara, none of the others appeared there regularly, so for me it makes no big difference if the Titans existed or not.

Straight from the mouth of Superman: American Alien writer Max Landis himself folks(viewer discretion advised lol):

This guy understands and has one of the best grasps on the character that i've ever seen. Really want him to write Nightwing now.

Outside of the occasional mini-series, I doubt that Landis would have the time for an ongoing, much less a bi-weekly. American Alien is something of a passion project for him.

I'd say that it shows and i've been enjoying every issue. I think the last time that I wanted a series to be collected in a trade paperback this badly, for Superman, was All-Star Superman.

Having read the latest installment of Superman: American Alien, I do like Max Landis take on Dick Grayson. Obviously, he was only in the comic for a brief period but this video does show that he understands what Dick Grayson can bring. Dick Grayson is the most human character in comics and is our gateway into the DCU, therefore stories that are focused on Dick can be great literature.

However, I do think that it's important to bring up that his approach to the character isn't new, many writers try to write Batman-esque stories through the lens of a more optimistic Dick Grayson and it hasn't always worked.

The Robin Delusion

The best way to save Dick Grayson's story investment reputation is to build a labyrinth with all the Robins --- i.e., Grayson, Todd, Damien, etc.

Robin is supposed to be effective in helping Batman trust people, and when you're tackling the criminally insane (i.e., Harley Quinn), nothing is easy.

I really don't think you can (or should!) take Grayson out of the story-mosaic context of the entire Robin-aura architecture. That's what the 'art of Robin' might be (at least, it seems that way to many of us Robin fans).

In fact, here's a different argument: just as there are multiple Red Hoods, there are multiple Robins, and this simple presentation can not be altered.

Just saying I'm probably repeating what others have said but i've gotta get this out.

1- Robin at 16

Nope, no, hell no. Dick Grayson the first sidekick. The BOYwonder, NOT the teenwonder, NOT the almost manwonder, BOY. The oldest I would accept would have been 13, 16 is to old to keep that boywonder nickname.

2- Robin for a year

I hate that they tried to fit everything into this nice little 5 year timline because they took over 40 years that equalled between 6 to 10 comic book years and said yeah he doesn't need a lot of training we are going to make him weaker anyway. Bull$#!@.

3- lost history with TT

4- Wally and Donna gone?

I'm just going to combine these and say WTF. Really Wally the second flash (technically third) and Donna who lets not forget Dick walked her down the aisle on her wedding day, yeah we don't need those characters. Talk about killing a person through lonelness, where they trying to make him a socially inept person like Bruce. Taking the Titans (I consider Titans Hunt them saying of Fu@# we screwed up sorry lets make a convoluted story about them losing there memories nope not buying it Didio) and I mean everyone here, not just Wally and Donna, whom Dick Grayson has worked/mentored just made it wrong. Number 2 to Superman in rallying. Not in New-52

5- Bat family

I'll be honest I remember a time were Jason and Tim hated eachother. Now we have Tim and Jason "brothers" ok that made me sick to my stomach. Like yeah Dick just exists in the family but no one really likes him. ???? Yeah not buying it in the slightest don't change family ties because you wanna sell Redhood. And seriously Dick is the first son he is Not Bruce's younger brother, I feel that none of the Robins were adopted so that they can give Damian (really how does that work) the rightful heir, everything later on. Don't have the room on here for Barbra because it's the same with Starfire. Two women he has been engaged to at different times in history. Not in this continuity.

6- Gotham's Gray-son

I'll say I really liked this I know some people didn't but I thought it just added something new to a character whom so much had been stripped of. I also like the fact that it gives him a place in Gotham other than Bruce's shadow.

7- Haley's Circus

Take it or leave it. When was the last real time we even saw the circus other than the occasional Dick and Babs on the traps.

Jason and Tim are not really as close as Dick and Tim were pre flashpoint. The problem is not that Tim and Jason don't hate each other anymore, the problem is that they sofar never did any team ups with Dick and Tim.

@aahz: Yeah agree with you on that, which is really upsetting because I remember early on in Tim's career where Dick would help teach him, and not the Batman type training but older brother teaching the younger to drive type.