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Posted by gmanfromheck (42524 posts) - - Show Bio

Since Captain America's debut in 1941, the character has been through a lot. He was transformed into a super-soldier, frozen in ice for decades, was killed (but really forced to become trapped in time), and had the Super-Soldier Serum drained from his body which lead to it reverting to its true age. When a sentient Cosmic Cube gave him his youth and stamina back, everything appeared to be back on track.

With the relaunch of a new Captain America series, the world was shocked when he uttered two simple words, "Hail HYDRA." Captain America always stood for truth and justice. How could he be loyal to the evil organization that has ties to the Red Skull? To make things worse, we also discovered this revelation went further back with his mother most likely being a member of HYDRA. With the second issue of of Captain America, the full details are now revealed. There will be spoilers below.

No Caption Provided

With Captain America being tied to HYDRA, many readers and fans were upset. It should be clear that HYDRA isn't necessarily a Nazi-created organization. It's been depicted in the comics and Cinematic Universe (in Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.) as having existed for millennia. Still, the question remains: How can Cap be loyal to HYDRA?

The reason goes back to Kobik, the Cosmic Cube that achieved sentience and believes itself to be a young girl. Kobik's story began as a Cosmic Cube in the Red Skull's possession. Cosmic Cubes have unlimited power and can be used to shape reality with but a thought.

When Captain America attempted to prevent Red Skull from using the cube, Cap's shield caused the cube to shatter. S.H.I.E.L.D. gathered the pieces but couldn't control or prevent the pieces from pulling itself together to become Kobik. Believing itself to be a child, it felt a connection to Red Skull and sought him out. He was able to manipulate the child into believing his beliefs, and HYDRA is how to make the world better than ever.

No Caption Provided

Red Skull set up a series of events which would lead to Kobik restoring Steve Rogers' youth and power. Going beyond that, she will make him the "most perfect version of himself." Of course because Red Skull has taken over HYDRA and Kobik has a strange father-figure connection to him, she made Captain America the embodiment of HYDRA.

No Caption Provided

Red Skull now plans to sit back and watch Rogers grow as his perfect warrior. He will lead Skull's army and help him inherit the earth. Captain America will betray and kill all his friends while declaring his loyalty to the Red Skull...at least until someone figures out a way to get Kobik to reverse this.

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#1 Posted by Aedan_Drago (75 posts) - - Show Bio

So he actually is brainwashed. See, everyone overreacted.

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#2 Posted by Farkam (12019 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel dun trolled yall lol

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#3 Edited by TheExile285 (4353 posts) - - Show Bio

Was this really the best story to launch a CA solo with? Couldn't they have just this a storyline in another book/miniseries and then have a CA spin out of it after it was resolved?

At this point, I may as well just wait and see if he gets Marvel NOW solo and read that instead. Assuming this HYRDA crap is over by then.

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#4 Posted by Hound_of_War (3944 posts) - - Show Bio

Duh.

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#5 Posted by Maki_P (296 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I imagined it would be something like this. Doesn't make it okay though. Anti-semitism still exists in the world and Marvel is being kinda dismissive of Jewish characters in general

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#6 Posted by Mark_Stephen (2616 posts) - - Show Bio

So he actually is brainwashed. See, everyone overreacted.

Just as marvel wanted. If they aren't trying to make the fans mad in one way or another they just aren't writing.

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#7 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9840 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll come back to this I have to go pick it up from my local comic book store

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#8 Posted by TheExile285 (4353 posts) - - Show Bio

Btw, someone needs to fix Cap's bio now.

ughhhhh
ughhhhh

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#9 Posted by SynCig (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really care about this story but the "HYDRA isn't Nazi" argument is really weak. That is like saying, "This white supremacist group isn't the KKK so why are you mad?" The two groups embody similar philosophies and have been linked many many times.

As for the actual story, I think it has gotten a little annoying how frequently Marvel has gone for the shock value to cause uproar. The overreactions are probably exactly what Marvel was looking for, but whatever sells comics I guess.

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#10 Posted by Lurkero (507 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if Rogers is just brainwashed, the plot still seems like a 'shock value' effect rather than a legitimate event that would lead to a quality story.

If this were anime I would assume this was a Captain America filler arc

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#11 Posted by TheExile285 (4353 posts) - - Show Bio

@lurkero said:

Even if Rogers is just brainwashed, the plot still seems like a 'shock value' effect rather than a legitimate event that would lead to a quality story.

If this were anime I would assume this was a Captain America filler arc

xD

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#12 Posted by Mutant God (3957 posts) - - Show Bio

Sure why not, if Steve can get Sam out of Snap Wilson then I guess Sam can get Steve out of Captain HYDRA.

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#13 Posted by Dernman (25910 posts) - - Show Bio

@aedan_drago said:

So he actually is brainwashed. See, everyone overreacted.

Just as marvel wanted. If they aren't trying to make the fans mad in one way or another they just aren't writing.

You realize that the majority of people complaining about this figured it was some reality changing thing done by the girl right? I think the point was missed on why people were angry.

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#14 Posted by longbowhunter (9425 posts) - - Show Bio

Sooo...the sky's not falling?

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#15 Posted by Mark_Stephen (2616 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:
@mark_stephen said:
@aedan_drago said:

So he actually is brainwashed. See, everyone overreacted.

Just as marvel wanted. If they aren't trying to make the fans mad in one way or another they just aren't writing.

You realize that the majority of people complaining about this figured it was some reality changing thing done by the girl right? I think the point was missed on why people were angry.

I can't tell why other people got angry, I can only say why I got angry. Having Captain America (one of them anyway, seems to be a growing franchise in marvel comics right now) throw someone out of a helicopter, essentially murdering him, coming during a week when Tony Stark kidnapped and tortured someone, both combined to make me angry a comic book company that seems to have it's good guys abandon any ethical limits on their behavior.

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#16 Posted by IDontLikeBirds (873 posts) - - Show Bio

So does this mean we'll have less people raging now?

Probably not, but at least people can stop over reacting (for now, at least about this).

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#17 Posted by incursion2 (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

Welp I knew it everyone overreacted

Online
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#18 Posted by superior_prime_maybe (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone whose been reading comics for a while:"Called It!!"

Everyone else: *awkward silence*

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#19 Posted by Wilbertus (535 posts) - - Show Bio

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/204647/nazi-captain-america

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#20 Posted by TrueMarvel (578 posts) - - Show Bio

This pains me as a marvel fan boy to say but DC at least doesn't try to piss off there fana to sell comics. Only marvel. Jane Foster, Superior Spidey, War machine and she-hulk, the list goes on.

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#21 Posted by righteous300 (3975 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe people will learn their lesson on not overreacting. Doubt it.

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#22 Posted by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone whose been reading comics for a while:"Called It!!"

Everyone else: *awkward silence*

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#23 Posted by LooneyTune2250 (37 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe this was their intended route that they wanted to tell over several issues but because virgin losers sat behind their keyboards and sent death threats, they most likely has to rush this out in response. To anyone who got angry and sent Nick Spencer death threats, you need a good ass kicking and a reality check. These are simply pictures with words attached to each other, I can understand loving it but sending death threats is pathetic and you are pathetic if you did that. I may hate the new Thor but I would never send death threats. I would much rather just whine about in the comments section.

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#24 Posted by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

So the thing Spencer promised everyone it wasn't turned out it was. How shocking.....

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#25 Posted by josai34 (76 posts) - - Show Bio

It's the lying by the authors that pisses me off most.

Listen, I don't like the Cap as Hyrdra. It's disrespectful on so many levels to people who are still effected by Nazi Germany and such. Poor gimmick.

However by stating its not mind contro or what not and then it being blatantly that shows that this writer has no respect for his audience. The only goal here is to get people to buy. Not to tell a great story. Not to respect the fans, but to increase sales.

As a comic fan..I'm done with Marvel. DC basically acknowledged their mistakes and apologized with Rebirth and there are so many good comics coming out of this line right now. Bye marvel

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#26 Posted by Joey Ravn (439 posts) - - Show Bio

Welp I knew it everyone overreacted

Everyone saw right from the start that this was a ploy by Marvel to generate some buzz and that it would be reverted as soon as the arc was over. Nobody was complaining (or "overreacting", as you eloquently put it) about that. What people didn't like was that one of the core beliefs of Captain America was turned over precisely for its shock value.

But, hey, can you hear me over there, in your high horse?

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#27 Posted by 51stPresidentofPlanetNeutral (380 posts) - - Show Bio

@aedan_drago said:

So he actually is brainwashed. See, everyone overreacted.

Just as marvel wanted. If they aren't trying to make the fans mad in one way or another they just aren't writing.

"Just as Marvel wanted."

Except not really? It was just a new narrative point that wasn't really new at all. It's something that's been done before, only this time it was done to a character that people hold sacred. I say "this time", but something of this scale has been done before to characters who have had greater impact on the world than Cap- like DC's trinity (Bats, Supes, WW). No one "planned" the outrage. People just get caught up in their emotions, and blindly make assumptions.

Truth be told, this issue made me laugh. As in, out loud. One of my friends (who is fairly new to comics in general, much less shared comic book universes like Marvel, DC, or Valiant) was one of the people who was outraged by the first issue. Like 90% of them, she didn't read it, but regardless, she was pissed off. I told her that there was probably more to it than something as simple and thoughtless as "Steve was HYDRA all along", but she got caught up in her emotions, cited sources she misread, and wouldn't accept "there's probably more to it", or "it's just the first issue, calm your tits".

@lvenger said:
@superior_prime_maybe said:

Everyone whose been reading comics for a while:"Called It!!"

Everyone else: *awkward silence*

Exactly. Just change "Everyone else: *awkward silence*" to "Everyone else: "BURR HURR I'M GLAD THEY CHANGED IT"."

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#28 Posted by superior_prime_maybe (1360 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by wbr17 (3516 posts) - - Show Bio

Not surprised at all.

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#30 Posted by Bl00dwerK (957 posts) - - Show Bio

The real crime here is that god-awful shield.

Online
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#31 Posted by superior_prime_maybe (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

I gotta say, all the theories of this story arc that came out last month were far more interesting than what's actually happening. My favorite being that It could have told the story of people who joined hydra because of bad circumstances and lack of options. How hydra would help family in need for their own selfish reasons... Maybe talk about the brainwashing that goes into cults... i mean something.

I guess Sam's my Captain for now.

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#32 Posted by Mark_Stephen (2616 posts) - - Show Bio

@mark_stephen said:
@aedan_drago said:

So he actually is brainwashed. See, everyone overreacted.

Just as marvel wanted. If they aren't trying to make the fans mad in one way or another they just aren't writing.

"Just as Marvel wanted."

Except not really? It was just a new narrative point that wasn't really new at all. It's something that's been done before, only this time it was done to a character that people hold sacred. I say "this time", but something of this scale has been done before to characters who have had greater impact on the world than Cap- like DC's trinity (Bats, Supes, WW). No one "planned" the outrage. People just get caught up in their emotions, and blindly make assumptions.

Truth be told, this issue made me laugh. As in, out loud. One of my friends (who is fairly new to comics in general, much less shared comic book universes like Marvel, DC, or Valiant) was one of the people who was outraged by the first issue. Like 90% of them, she didn't read it, but regardless, she was pissed off. I told her that there was probably more to it than something as simple and thoughtless as "Steve was HYDRA all along", but she got caught up in her emotions, cited sources she misread, and wouldn't accept "there's probably more to it", or "it's just the first issue, calm your tits".

@lvenger said:
@superior_prime_maybe said:

Everyone whose been reading comics for a while:"Called It!!"

Everyone else: *awkward silence*

Exactly. Just change "Everyone else: *awkward silence*" to "Everyone else: "BURR HURR I'M GLAD THEY CHANGED IT"."

I think they did want the anger, they did want some sort of reaction and over the past decade or so the principle reaction marvel has wanted and enjoyed at least online is anger. People get angry, other people laugh at their anger, more anger is generated... marvel thrives on anger and splitting the fanbase.

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#33 Posted by kiba (3661 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm laughing my butt off at this. Some of the over reacting but mostly because Marvel tried one of their "controversial" changes and it blew up in their faces and now no one will care because it got boring. Marvel needs a good kick in the butt after all the times they've trolled and insulted their own fan base and I think this will be what does it.

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#34 Posted by alsummers (300 posts) - - Show Bio

Another brainwashing gimmick. God at least make it more interesting than that.

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#35 Posted by Ultra_beleco (389 posts) - - Show Bio

@br_havoc said:

So the thing Spencer promised everyone it wasn't turned out it was. How shocking.....

I read a couple of his tweets during the outrage. Gave up the book. I could smell the bad writing.

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#36 Posted by Child_of_the_Past (397 posts) - - Show Bio

@josai34: Spencer didn't lie about anything. Everyone is acting like Cap was brainwashed when in actuality Kubik altered reality and Steve's history.

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#37 Posted by Goellterator (201 posts) - - Show Bio

So he got this child who can literally warp reality, but he decides to make Captain America instead of a God or a Titan to a Hydra Agent?

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#38 Edited by Wowlock (907 posts) - - Show Bio

Well this ''reveal'' doesn't prove anyone wrong really. People said it was an awful change it is was true and if it was not, it was a STUPID publicity Stunt , which it was...and that doesn't make any better. If anything, that proves them they LIED to drum up the sales. Which doesn't make me wanna buy the book more...hell it confirms my reasoning not to buy it. They have no good ideas for the book and go '' Lets reality alter him '' route.

Also the whole Kobik/Red Skull thing is just stupid. ''Sure lets give him Prof X's brain...and now a Child-Cosmic Cube to believe Hydra is a better world ! '' but now she is with Thunderbolts somehow and not returned to Red Skull ?

This is the reason why I hate 'Reality Altering'' stuff. It gives writers too much of a cheap excuse to justify BS decisions. '' Oh their reality was altered so that is the reason ! '' and think that would make it better. It was a bad excuse when Wanda went 'No More Mutans' and it is a bad excuse now. You can't trust writers with God-powers...

It was a lose-lose situation they put themselves into, and guess what ? Result was a loss !

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#39 Edited by Child_of_the_Past (397 posts) - - Show Bio

@mark_stephen: Your points are well taken. My issue with all of this is that Marvel is in a position where they can't win. If they keep things he same then they get called stale and their sales drop. If they change things some people say they are ruining everything and others will be temporarily interested, leading to an increase in sales. The die-hard fans will buy a book they hate just for the hopes the status quo will return and then when it does the sales spike and then decline and the cycle repeats itself. Everyone wants new characters but no one buys books with new characters. People say they want diversity but books like Angela are quickly cancelled do to poor sales. The fans want change but they aren't sure what that change looks like. The industry as a whole is struggling right now because fans don't support the books they claim to love. There are only a handful of books from the big 2 that sell well regardless of quality it's because the fans are extremely close-minded in terms of what they want.

Some, like yourself want the books to return to a period before heroes had to be deconstructed to be interesting. It's hard to find a book these days that doesn't make its hero a hypocrite in some way shape or form. For every fan that wants Steve Rogers to be ethically/morally incorruptible there are also those that feel Superman was correct when he snapped Zod's neck or that it was cool when Batman blew those bad guys up. Comic book philosophies, to many, are outdated. The idea that the Joker is goin around killing people all the time and yet Batman hasn't killed him seems nonsensical to some but to others it's about Batman sticking to his code.

We can't act like comics are a business and as such they need a way to market and sell their books to fans with modern ideologies of life and a high degree of cynicism. Who are they supposed to listen to when things die-hards claim is awful sell well. As much as die hard fans claim they hate the new Thor for some reason the sales of that book are way higher that of Thor: God of Thunder. It's hard to say Marvel shouldn't do drastic changes when people seem to be more interested when they do. Long story short they're screwed regardless of what they do.

P.S. Sorry for the wall of text.

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#40 Posted by Mark_Stephen (2616 posts) - - Show Bio

@mark_stephen: Your points are well taken. My issue with all of this is that Marvel is in a position where they can't win. If they keep things he same then they get called stale and their sales drop. If they change things some people say they are ruining everything and others will be temporarily interested, leading to an increase in sales. The die-hard fans will buy a book they hate just for the hopes the status quo will return and then when it does the sales spike and then decline and the cycle repeats itself. Everyone wants new characters but no one buys books with new characters. People say they want diversity but books like Angela are quickly cancelled do to poor sales. The fans want change but they aren't sure what that change looks like. The industry as a whole is struggling right now because fans don't support the books they claim to love. There are only a handful of books from the big 2 that sell well regardless of quality it's because the fans are extremely close-minded in terms of what they want.

Some, like yourself want the books to return to a period before heroes had to be deconstructed to be interesting. It's hard to find a book these days that doesn't make its hero a hypocrite in some way shape or form. For every fan that wants Steve Rogers to be ethically/morally incorruptible there are also those that feel Superman was correct when he snapped Zod's neck or that it was cool when Batman blew those bad guys up. Comic book philosophies, to many, are outdated. The idea that the Joker is goin around killing people all the time and yet Batman hasn't killed him seems nonsensical to some but to others it's about Batman sticking to his code.

We can't act like comics are a business and as such they need a way to market and sell their books to fans with modern ideologies of life and a high degree of cynicism. Who are they supposed to listen to when things die-hards claim is awful sell well. As much as die hard fans claim they hate the new Thor for some reason the sales of that book are way higher that of Thor: God of Thunder. It's hard to say Marvel shouldn't do drastic changes when people seem to be more interested when they do. Long story short they're screwed regardless of what they do.

P.S. Sorry for the wall of text.

I don't mind, reading is easy.

I don't mind change, but there is change and then there is change. I understand that we live in a cynical age, but in a cynical age you need heroes all the more. Would anyone realistically trust Tony Stark? Especially any women? Think of the events since Avengers disassembled and how many times we've seen deconstruction and hero fighting hero, at a certain point you have to wonder why marvel even bothers with super villains. The X-men captured and tortured Avengers, now Tony kidnaps and tortures someone... Cap murders someone... Why bother having any sort of laws since Cap and Tony will get away with everything just like the X-men did. The writers at marvel have in my opinion given up on any sort of moral structure, we have street gangs battling over turf anyway they can, doing anything to anyone.

I think there are 3 audiences for comics and only one of them matter. The old fans who've really stopped buying, the new fans who buy and the last group, the fans who complain on the net and don't buy. Of the three I believe the marvel writers have developed a sadistic attitude toward the last and write storylines in part or in whole designed to anger that last category.

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#41 Posted by Mark_Stephen (2616 posts) - - Show Bio

So he got this child who can literally warp reality, but he decides to make Captain America instead of a God or a Titan to a Hydra Agent?

He once had the cosmic cube in his hand and still botched things. As far as villains go the Red Skull is about as dangerous to Cap as Skeletor was to He-Man.

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#42 Posted by Wowlock (907 posts) - - Show Bio

Btw I just read the writers Twitter and his explanion and justification that he didn't lie is just comical and insulting

  1. Nick Spencer ‏@nickspencer 34 dk.34 dakika önce

    Nick Spencer Retweetledi: Adam Lashley

    It's not mind control.

  2. Ignacio ‏@CodenameWho 25 dk.25 dakika önce

    @nickspencer@Lashley93@WeAreTheTyranny it's mind altering? Or history rewriting? I wouldn't call it the real "Captain America himself"

Nick Spencer‏@nickspencer

@CodenameWho@Lashley93@WeAreTheTyranny if reality got rewritten, it's real by definition.

__________________________________________________

Basicly a cop-out to say '' OH I didn't mind-control Steve, just rewrite his memories/reality with Cosmic Cube Girl...Those TOTALLY DIFFERENT YOU GUYS ! .

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#43 Posted by BR_Havoc (1756 posts) - - Show Bio

@child_of_the_past: I think its spiting hairs. She created false memories so he believes he is a hydra agent, It's brain washing and pretty silly.

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#44 Posted by RisingBean (9797 posts) - - Show Bio

As per the reveal, it was the only choice they could run with and not ruin the character (other then going with an evil clone.) But it was still a shock value setup. Marvel still didn't do themselves any favors. Big events and spublicity stunts may draw the attention of people for a moment, but good writing is what they need to focus on if they want to keep their fandom.

And even if the masses are not pissed at Steve's turn, they should probably be pissed at the hack writing the title. I recall a sequence where he pretty much equated a certain political group as Nazi's. Insulting the fanbase isn't a good way to keep them. Spencer would do well to learn about a little thing called subtlety.

Also didn't Spencer promise us it wasn't mind control? Ah yes.

"Issue 2 will lay a lot of our cards on the table in terms of what the new status quo is, but the one thing we can say unequivocally is: This is not a clone, not an imposter, not mind control, not someone else acting through Steve" explained Spencer in an interview with Newsarama. "This really is Steve Rogers, Captain America himself."

So Spencer, and by extension Marvel are blatant liars. Yeah, definitely dropping Marvel until Spencer is off this title.

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#45 Posted by danhimself (21433 posts) - - Show Bio

@syncig said:

I don't really care about this story but the "HYDRA isn't Nazi" argument is really weak. That is like saying, "This white supremacist group isn't the KKK so why are you mad?" The two groups embody similar philosophies and have been linked many many times.

As for the actual story, I think it has gotten a little annoying how frequently Marvel has gone for the shock value to cause uproar. The overreactions are probably exactly what Marvel was looking for, but whatever sells comics I guess.

except Hydra isn't a Nazi group....they could care less about Jewish people...heck they probably have Jewish people in their ranks....they aren't a race supremacist group

Hydra's origins date back to ancient Egypt and they may have tied into the Nazis for a while but only as a way to push their own goals

you could say that they have similar philosophies but that doesn't make Hydra into Nazis...that's like saying that AIM or the Hand are Nazis to

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#46 Posted by Stahlflamme (5694 posts) - - Show Bio

@mark_stephen: Your points are well taken. My issue with all of this is that Marvel is in a position where they can't win. If they keep things he same then they get called stale and their sales drop. If they change things some people say they are ruining everything and others will be temporarily interested, leading to an increase in sales. The die-hard fans will buy a book they hate just for the hopes the status quo will return and then when it does the sales spike and then decline and the cycle repeats itself. Everyone wants new characters but no one buys books with new characters. People say they want diversity but books like Angela are quickly cancelled do to poor sales. Angela tried to sell on the same controversity as female Thor from what I could tell, but with pretty much zero people knowing about it you couldn't get people to talk. The book was horribly advertised. If you had it tie in with the well-selling thor-book at some point and had her interact with the bigger marvel universe. But she wasn't even featured in Marvel Point One. If there had been an actual marketing campaign to any of the new characters book, than you could complain, but fact is they spent all their money on advertising Sam Wilson or Thor or Miles Morales and a year back Nova. The fans want change but they aren't sure what that change looks like. The industry as a whole is struggling right now because fans don't support the books they claim to love. Then they are marketing towards the wrong people simple as that. There are only a handful of books from the big 2 that sell well regardless of quality it's because the fans are extremely close-minded in terms of what they want. How can you tell the last years had with few exception the exact same plotlines over and over again.

Some, like yourself want the books to return to a period before heroes had to be deconstructed to be interesting. It's hard to find a book these days that doesn't make its hero a hypocrite in some way shape or form. The same direction every single current legacy character has adopted. Cept Sam, because Nick Spencer is a hypocrite. For every fan that wants Steve Rogers to be ethically/morally incorruptible there are also those that feel Superman was correct when he snapped Zod's neck or that it was cool when Batman blew those bad guys up. And thats why you don't write Captain America as the Punisher and the Punisher not as Captain America. So that there are characters for more than one taste, but instead every single female character ends up a quirky wannabe Squirrel Girl. Comic book philosophies, to many, are outdated. The idea that the Joker is goin around killing people all the time and yet Batman hasn't killed him seems nonsensical to some but to others it's about Batman sticking to his code. Then how about they write a story about that? We can have every damn character making a snide comment about how much people on the internet suck, because they don't like their book, but can't have a story that shows that Judge, Jury and Executioner have to be separate entities?

We can't act like comics are a business and as such they need a way to market and sell their books to fans with modern ideologies of life and a high degree of cynicism. Who are they supposed to listen to when things die-hards claim is awful sell well. As much as die hard fans claim they hate the new Thor for some reason the sales of that book are way higher that of Thor: God of Thunder. Does it? Mighty Thor Issue 7 from last months sold over 47000 copies. Thor God of Thunder Issue 7 from 2013 sold over 51000. It's hard to say Marvel shouldn't do drastic changes when people seem to be more interested when they do.

Then DO drastic changes. Make Starbrand and Nightmask the grand protectors of earth post secret wars.

Make the Doc Green storyline lead into Hulk being the Maestro for the next five years, but don't make a new hulk to write about make a book about heroes having ot deal with a Hulk.
Put earth at war with the Shi'ar after Iron Man blew up their fleet. Making them into what Skrulls or Kree were for alien threats back in the day.
Make a story that deals with the wrongs of One More Day, seriously that's printing money, DC Rebirth is essentially selling just on fixing stuff they messed up in the past.

Make the disappeareance of the Fantastic Four tragic, because there actually isn't just some other genius that can just fill the void left by Reed Richards forcing them to have other solutions.
Make Thor the all-father of Asgard and Angela his new champion. With a more hands-on "Odin" and a new hero.
Make Stephen Strange something like the ancient one after what he was in NewAvengers and SecretWars and Scarlet Witch into the sorcerer supreme.
Secret Wars had everyones attention, but it didn't lead to any big changes that would be logical. All changes and forced ones at that happened before so it just lead to the same dumb universe just with Miles Morales in it and a bunch of previous storylines abandoned.
Long story short they're screwed regardless of what they do.

P.S. Sorry for the wall of text.

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#47 Posted by Stahlflamme (5694 posts) - - Show Bio

@josai34: Spencer didn't lie about anything. Everyone is acting like Cap was brainwashed when in actuality Kubik altered reality and Steve's history.

She only said no pink dragons...
She only said no pink dragons...

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#48 Posted by phillip33 (3935 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahh sounds interesting... might pick this book up in tpb

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#49 Posted by esparza3368 (150 posts) - - Show Bio

@syncig:

Actually, Hydra and Nazism have never been the same. Hydra is simply an organization with the goal of world domination, just like Leviathan, the Hand, the Eternal Empire (Atlas), the Hellfire Club, the Celestial Order of Si-Fan, & the Advanced Idea Mechanics.

If you recall, it was first introduced as a secret society in Japan. It was similar to the Yakuza-like Black Dragon Society & Dark Ocean Society of historical pre-WW2 Japan. Once Baron von Strucker took over it became global. Yet during all this time, it had white, Asian, and Latino members, and later on also black members. Asians like Plan Chu (Yellow Claw) have led the Asian branch.

Now since the retcon about the history of Hydra (the Brotherhood of the Spear) and SHIELD (the Brotherhood of the Shield), it shows them being over 3000 years old, playing a role in various empires throughout history, from the Chinese empires to the Spanish empire. Nothing in there that has to do with Nazism. They simply used to the empire, faith, or ideology of their time to achieve their goals of gaining power.

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#50 Edited by Mark_Stephen (2616 posts) - - Show Bio

@wowlock said:

Btw I just read the writers Twitter and his explanion and justification that he didn't lie is just comical and insulting

  1. Nick Spencer ‏@nickspencer 34 dk.34 dakika önce

    Nick Spencer Retweetledi: Adam Lashley

    It's not mind control.

  2. Ignacio ‏@CodenameWho 25 dk.25 dakika önce

    @nickspencer@Lashley93@WeAreTheTyranny it's mind altering? Or history rewriting? I wouldn't call it the real "Captain America himself"

Nick Spencer‏@nickspencer

@CodenameWho@Lashley93@WeAreTheTyranny if reality got rewritten, it's real by definition.

__________________________________________________

Basicly a cop-out to say '' OH I didn't mind-control Steve, just rewrite his memories/reality with Cosmic Cube Girl...Those TOTALLY DIFFERENT YOU GUYS ! .

I think what he is saying is that this is an artificially created alternate reality Steve Rogers suddenly put into the mainstream reality. Trouble is for that to happen retroactively it would mean that Steve has now always been a Hydra agent and in that case you have to wonder what he's been doing all these years? Time after time Steve -a HYDRA- agent has worked against HYDRA.

At any rate I believe the controversy over all of this is what marvel truly craves, the story be it good or bad was an afterthought.