Zuras VS Xavier: Judgement day TP Battle

Xavier is on Krakoa

Zuras is in Olympia

Battle takes place on the Astral plane

Who wins

Most recent versions of the characters

Blood lust is on

Bonus Scenario:

Xavier gets Jean as Back up

Zuras gets Uranos as Back up

Zuras doesn't have any Astral Plane feats gg

Rd 1. We'll know shortly how they compare.

Rd 2. How does Charles and Jean compare to Legion in the astral/psychic plane?

death to mutants doesn't show xavier vs zuras. it's still uni-mind vs krakoan telepaths, just with zuras and xavier representing the 2 factions

-

-

R1 - xavier

R2 - uranos probably carries since he held off the eternals host from breaching his mind. he would die before they would be able to extract the info they needed from his mind

@cosmic_reign: Xavier, Legion and Jean should roughly be on the same level, with minor variations

Xavier is the most skilled, Legion has the most raw power, Jean is the middle ground of power and skill.

Xavier has in recent times shown he can sneak into a "tired" Jeans mind and wipe her memories, and he also breached Legions mental defenses to steal a secret from his mind. He was also winning the fight against Legions dominant personality in AoX before it took the form of Moira and used that against him. Red skull with Xaviers brain was also beating base Legion until Another personality took over

Jean in Disassembled, provided psylocke with the power to breach and shut down Legions mind and personalities 3 different times

Legion fought well against Lifeseed Nate grey wo was flat out stronger than Jean in disassembled, and was blocking out Jean at the beginning of disassembled when he possessed multiple people in a city

First and second paragraphs are true.

1) For more context, “Tired” by Rosenberg’s, the writer of said comic where Xavier performed the feat against Jean, admission. Rosenberg made it a point to illustrate that telepathy is not a raw power contest. It is far more complex, with a variety of different ways that can impact a psychic bout.

He is not wrong in this assertion. Not to say raw power is completely irrelevant. It’s merely one factor of many.

2) Also true. Moira was a reality warping persona who created Age of X.

3) Context for the Red Skull feat: Legion’s mentalscape was recently obliterated from the death of Charles Xavier and he had to go through a process of rebuilding his mind after. So, when referencing “base Legion”, Del means an alt personality that thinks it’s the real David. An incomplete Legion.

4) No, he didn’t fight Lifeseed Nate Grey well at all. He trapped Nate Grey in his mind, tricking Nate into believing he was in the Age of Apocalypse reality.

The second Nate realized it was all a trick, he straight stomps Legion. That in no way is ”doing well” against Lifeseed Nate Grey.

@pyrofn:

-I still don't buy the titmred stuff, but let's not get into that today

-I would sat that trapping nate grey in his mind and depowering him there, even for a limited period is doing well..

How many telepaths are powerful enough to escape from Legion in that scenario. Or how many telepaths can restrain nate grey like that

Looks like a pretty good feat to me

Zuras gets massacred

@marvelfan1992 said:

@cosmic_reign said:

Rd 1. We'll know shortly how they compare.

Rd 2. How does Charles and Jean compare to Legion in the astral/psychic plane?

death to mutants doesn't show xavier vs zuras. it's still uni-mind vs krakoan telepaths, just with zuras and xavier representing the 2 factions

-

-

Got it! Thnx

Okay, thnx for the info! ;) I'm familiar with the some of the Disassembled stuff.

OT

Rd1 Probably Charles in straight TP.

Rd2 Going with Eternals. Uranos carries ofc. IMO

@marvelfan1992 said:

@cosmic_reign said:

Rd 1. We'll know shortly how they compare.

Rd 2. How does Charles and Jean compare to Legion in the astral/psychic plane?

death to mutants doesn't show xavier vs zuras. it's still uni-mind vs krakoan telepaths, just with zuras and xavier representing the 2 factions

-

-

And from the description of it, it seems the mutants are winning in terms of raw power

@marvelfan1992: yeah, standing solo against the unimind is impressive

@del_torro: From the description it sounds like both sides are using combined forces here, considering that they are constantly speaking of standing against the mutants and not a single mutant

In Immortal X-Men #5 we see that Xavier says he's going to defend the quite council against the Unimind and then sends Emma, Hope and Exodus to actually fight.

Even then, Exodus gets KO'd and Emma and Hope are the ones to beat them back.

****

@del_torro seriously???

Going by the issue, Zuras is shitting bricks just trying to deal with the 4 quiet council telepaths despite having somewhere close to 30 telepaths to help him.

This is a mismatch

Gallery

@koays: funny that you have the time to reply to this one-sided match but not to pyro's deep dive into the phoenix force in x-men evolution 🤔

He didn't just trap Nate in his mind.

He pulled him into his mind where he made him experience almost a year in an alternate reality and had him thinking the entire time that he was depowered....all in the span of 5 minutes

Nate didn't even realize it was a trick....he had to be told and shown and if Bishop hadn't stopped him then Armor wouldve killed him.

All of this while Betsy and Jean had to work together just to get into his mind???

If that's not doing well idk what is

It is 6am, i am hungover and I just started another argument with Pyro in this thread where Del_torro is trying to get discussion about a mismatch.

I have all day to tell pyro why he's wrong and finish slapping Del_torro upside the head for this thread.....it's just gonna have to wait until I'm fully sober.

@koays: To be fair though, all Quiet council members are beast and we have no idea what the Eternal telepaths can even deliver in terms of power

It still doesn't really makes it a good fight in a Zuras vs Xavier situation though

@rac95: I'm talking about Uranos against the Unimind

@koays: why is my discussion with Pyro triggering you. Smh.

@del_torro: Ah, misunderstood ot then. Sorry

Bold of you to think I need you to talk to someone else for your comments to trigger me.

I never said Betsy and Jean would do better. I said that’s not doing well against Lifeseed Nate Grey. It’s impressive for what it is, but does not measure Legion to Lifeseed Nate from what I can see.

If we are to say Legion is doing well against Lifeseed Nate Grey through trickery, than why not rate other psychic tricks the same way? Like when Sage tricked Lady Mastermind into thinking she was fighting Lifeguard the whole time after being restrained in her own head by Lady Mastermind? Or Miss Sinister when she tricked Xavier into believing he was headed for Daken? Heck, it took both of us how long to get people to even reconsider the magnitude of pretty much every one of Mastermind‘s (Jason Wyngarde) feats against psychics.

My issue personally is that it isn’t a direct fight in the slightest. The second the jig is up, Nate stomps Legion completely. No drawn out conflict, despite the fact that Legion called every personality that existed in his mind to try to fight.

I’m good with just saying koays is right and moving on after the House of xcii pulls this revelation on me:

Pretty soon koays is gonna be taking me off the streets while I’m pointing at a random red-head going:

PyroFN: “IS THAT A PHOENIX?!!!”

koays: “No, Pyro. Now come along.”

PyroFN: “I saw it! I swear!! They exist!!!”

Xavier. It's literally explained in death to the mutants, that their psychics are better than the eternals

@pyrofn: I didn't say anything about what Betsy and Jean COULD do, I said what they WERE doing. They were trying to break into Legions mind while he was containing Nate and couldn't. That's defending against 2 high level psychics while imprisoning a God Tier.

It's not measuring Legion to Lifeseed Nate, it's showing a high tier trapping and almost killing a God Tier. In a flat out fight we know Legion would lose, but looking him straight in the face dragging him into his mind and leaving him powerless

Nate was at Legions complete mercy...he wasn't skilled enough to realize it was a trick. He didn't see through it. He didn't break out of it. He was told that it wasn't real.

It's not a head to head combat feat, but its a feat performed right in Nates face that he was absolutely fucked by and on the level of every other TP feat gained against Nate...and superior I'd argue.

This I can and do agree with.