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#1 Edited by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

Zuko/Katara/Toph

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VS

Three Korras:

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In this battle, the original Team Avatar will take on a team of 3 Avatar Korras, who will win?

Team ATLA:

  • Zuko
  • Katara
  • Toph

Three Korras:

  • Korra (waterbending only)
  • Korra (earthbending and airbending)
  • Korra (firebending and airbending)

Each Korra is restricted to the listed elements. No Avatar State

Fight takes place in perpetual twilight. Location is Avatar Korra park in Republic City (open area by a river)

Several meteors and metal plates are on site to provide some metalbending

All are in character. Victory by ko

Who wins?

Bonus Round:

In this round, Zuko, Katara, and Toph will take on a team of Korras with these elements:

  • Water and air
  • Earth and air
  • Fire and air

All the same conditions as before still apply

Who wins?

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#2 Posted by katrurius17 (1042 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Azula would be more logical but Zuko always needs some love lol.

Each of the team is superior to Korra in their respective element, but air bending for 2 Korra's is very helpful and with water bending is it anyways closer.

Korra has drastically superior physicals than Toph and Katara, but Toph has her seismic sense and Zuko is good comparable with Korra's physicals.

I say team 1 in a good fight if they work well together.

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#3 Posted by Bionar (897 posts) - - Show Bio

Team1 wins.. Weaker opponents have fodderized korra even in avatar state.

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#4 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar said:

Team1 wins.. Weaker opponents have fodderized korra even in avatar state.

So you think Korra is fodder to them?

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#5 Posted by Alsimmons77 (1091 posts) - - Show Bio

Comic feats allowed?

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#6 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by Bionar (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Not saying it will be too easy for them, but eventually they should win. Toph alone could hang with Aang and Korra is weaker than Aang.

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#8 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar said:

@arcus1: Not saying it will be too easy for them, but eventually they should win. Toph alone could hang with Aang and Korra is weaker than Aang.

When Aang was holding back, and in some ways Korra is stronger than Aang

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#9 Edited by juiceboks (24070 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar: Aang has never fought Toph seriously and their one and only encounter had him fodderizing her.

Also when has Korra been fodderized in the Avatar State?

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#10 Posted by Bionar (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Korra is significantly weaker compared to Aang, she has trouble keeping up with well trained benders that Aang could one shot in his avatar mode.

Thats not for debate.

Considering her age Korra could be the avatars weakest incarnation and yes i dare say that.

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#11 Posted by Alsimmons77 (1091 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@alsimmons77 said:

Comic feats allowed?

Yes

Okay Zuko/Toph/Katara, but the Korra's put up a nice fight due to air feats from the comics.

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#12 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar said:

@arcus1: Korra is significantly weaker compared to Aang, she has trouble keeping up with well trained benders that Aang could one shot in his avatar mode.

Thats not for debate.

Considering her age Korra could be the avatars weakest incarnation and yes i dare say that.

I've got some ideas, but for clarification, which benders are you referring to?

Bending wise, Korra's a much better waterbender than Aang and solidly a better firebender. Earthbending, she might not have as much raw power as him, but she's also a metalbender

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#13 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by Bionar (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I would be referring to Amon and co. Unalaq beat the crap out of her in one of the most humiliating fights i ever watched.

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#15 Posted by Bionar (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: She has disappointed plenty times in her avatar state, and was beaten so badly that she even lost it.

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#16 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar said:

@arcus1: I would be referring to Amon and co. Unalaq beat the crap out of her in one of the most humiliating fights i ever watched.

Korra never even fought any of the Equalists in the Avatar State (I assume you were referring to Avatar State, if you referenced Aang being able to one-shot them in the Avatar State?)

Unalaq beat her because of convenient spirit powers (and for most of the fight they were both out of the Avatar State anyway). They both got the upper hand on each other at different points (one time when he trapped her in the chasm, and then later she trapped him with water arms).

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#17 Posted by Outside_85 (22583 posts) - - Show Bio

The Korra's, unless we are for some reason talking about the adult versions of team 1, since neither Zuko or Katara were billed as bending protege's. They were good, dont get me wrong, but Zuko admitted he wasn't nearly as good as Azula was and Katara was good and stubborn enough in personality that she could be more than just a healer (overcoming the gender politics of her tribe).

Korra on the other hand only appeared to have trouble with learning Airbending, and could usually handle regular (not advanced) benders with their own style. Toph however I agree is likely to be the biggest problem... however since the Korra with Earthbending is also the one with Airbending, she does have the ability to turn invisible on Toph for as long as she can keep herself off the ground.

Side note: I am not sure I agree with the notion of Korra being less powerful than Aang was, since Aang spends all of his series repeatedly fighting Zuko, then Azula and all their fire-bending goons and some things in between before finally taking on a jacked up Firelord. Korra however kept going up against advanced benders, first a bloodbender, then a energy-bender + the embodiment of evil, a group of highly advanced benders and finally a highly advanced metal bender. As such, I would say Aang took the basic course in his series while Korra took the advanced one.

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#18 Edited by Alsimmons77 (1091 posts) - - Show Bio
@outside_85 said:

The Korra's, unless we are for some reason talking about the adult versions of team 1, since neither Zuko or Katara were billed as bending protege's. They were good, dont get me wrong, but Zuko admitted he wasn't nearly as good as Azula was and Katara was good and stubborn enough in personality that she could be more than just a healer (overcoming the gender politics of her tribe).

Korra on the other hand only appeared to have trouble with learning Airbending, and could usually handle regular (not advanced) benders with their own style. Toph however I agree is likely to be the biggest problem... however since the Korra with Earthbending is also the one with Airbending, she does have the ability to turn invisible on Toph for as long as she can keep herself off the ground.

Side note: I am not sure I agree with the notion of Korra being less powerful than Aang was, since Aang spends all of his series repeatedly fighting Zuko, then Azula and all their fire-bending goons and some things in between before finally taking on a jacked up Firelord. Korra however kept going up against advanced benders, first a bloodbender, then a energy-bender + the embodiment of evil, a group of highly advanced benders and finally a highly advanced metal bender. As such, I would say Aang took the basic course in his series while Korra took the advanced one.

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Wait, Katara is no prodigy, Zuko and even Azula and amped Ozai are no highly advanced benders and Aang took the basic course during the war?

Are you stoned?

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#19 Edited by Bionar (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: "Unalaq beat her senselessly but she managed to win"

Destroyed all previous avatar incarnations within her avatar spirit. It was a horror stomp.

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#20 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar said:

@arcus1: "Unalaq beat her senselessly but she managed to win"

Destroyed all previous avatar incarnations within her avatar spirit. It was a horror stomp.

He did that because of spirit powers unlike anything Aang has ever encountered...

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#21 Posted by Outside_85 (22583 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, Katara is no prodigy, Zuko and even Azula and amped Ozai are no highly advanced benders and Aang took the basic course during the war?

To the best of my knowledge, Katara didn't do anything that was exceptional for a water-bender. That time when they went to her tribe the really unique thing about her was that she wouldn't accept just being a healer, as all women there were, while all the guys were taught combat lessons. Yes, she did have one brush with bloodbending, but as far as I recall, she only did it once, and didn't like it.

And when I say advanced, I mean able to rely on more advanced forms of bending. Zuko, couldn't manipulate lightning or combustion bend for instance. Azula didn't show she could do it either, even if she was lauded as the more talented of the two. Toph took her first steps towards learning metalbending during the show and so on.

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#22 Posted by juiceboks (24070 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I think Korra can beat Katara with waterbending very narrowly. Katara has more fine control but Korra has more and better showings of raw power in combat plus her physicals give her an edge.

I've never been too impressed with Toph from a combat perspective. And I think Korra's use of airbending (air spouts, tornadoes) counters her fighting style.

I think Korra actually has Zuko beat in raw power though not by much, and airbending gives her that much more mobility and evasive options than Zuko.

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#23 Edited by Bionar (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Aang would have fared better, the beating was just too much

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#24 Posted by juiceboks (24070 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar: Amon would beat any of these characters for obvious reasons, and I don't recall her using Avatar State against the equalizers.

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#25 Posted by Bionar (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: He isnt beating them as a team, and whether Korra used her avatar state or not,point is aang would have fared better. I recall her being almost captured by someone who could blood bend, and she trying to spit fire on him. I believe she isnt worthy of the avatar title, and gets a lot of help in taking down benders who look too good because they beat crap out of her before she is helped.

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#26 Edited by Alsimmons77 (1091 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:
@alsimmons77 said:

Wait, Katara is no prodigy, Zuko and even Azula and amped Ozai are no highly advanced benders and Aang took the basic course during the war?

To the best of my knowledge, Katara didn't do anything that was exceptional for a water-bender. That time when they went to her tribe the really unique thing about her was that she wouldn't accept just being a healer, as all women there were, while all the guys were taught combat lessons. Yes, she did have one brush with bloodbending, but as far as I recall, she only did it once, and didn't like it.

And when I say advanced, I mean able to rely on more advanced forms of bending. Zuko, couldn't manipulate lightning or combustion bend for instance. Azula didn't show she could do it either, even if she was lauded as the more talented of the two. Toph took her first steps towards learning metalbending during the show and so on.

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Azula was quite literally the first person in the history of Avatar who showed without a shadow of doubt an advanced form of bending following your criteria, and i don't even know what to say about your description of Katara.

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#27 Edited by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:
@alsimmons77 said:

Wait, Katara is no prodigy, Zuko and even Azula and amped Ozai are no highly advanced benders and Aang took the basic course during the war?

To the best of my knowledge, Katara didn't do anything that was exceptional for a water-bender. That time when they went to her tribe the really unique thing about her was that she wouldn't accept just being a healer, as all women there were, while all the guys were taught combat lessons. Yes, she did have one brush with bloodbending, but as far as I recall, she only did it once, and didn't like it.

And when I say advanced, I mean able to rely on more advanced forms of bending. Zuko, couldn't manipulate lightning or combustion bend for instance. Azula didn't show she could do it either, even if she was lauded as the more talented of the two. Toph took her first steps towards learning metalbending during the show and so on.

Pakku did say she mastered waterbending more quickly than any other student he'd had. She picked up bloodbending almost immediately (without officially learning the technique), showed she could plant-bend in the comics

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#28 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar said:

@juiceboks: He isnt beating them as a team, and whether Korra used her avatar state or not,point is aang would have fared better. I recall her being almost captured by someone who could blood bend, and she trying to spit fire on him. I believe she isnt worthy of the avatar title, and gets a lot of help in taking down benders who look too good because they beat crap out of her before she is helped.

Tbh, Amon could absolutely solo all three of these guys. His dad, Yakone, took out adult Toph, Aang, and a bunch of other people, remember? And Amon was even more advanced than Yakone (mastering his psychic bloodbending technique, and furthering it to remove bending)

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#29 Posted by juiceboks (24070 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar: ..who said anything about beating them as a team? You're the one who brought up Amon beating Korra as if any of the three here would fare better. And no..Aang would get stomped just as well since he has no defense against bloodbending.

All of that is fine and dandy as an opinion, but her actual feats as they relate to this battle matter much more and quite frankly I'm noticing you're ignoring quite a bit of context to these encounters.

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#30 Posted by Bionar (897 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Team 1 is underestimated here dont you think?

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#31 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@bionar said:

@arcus1: Team 1 is underestimated here dont you think?

I don't really see anyone underestimating them, except maybe Outside_85. I think it's a very close match

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#32 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I think Korra can beat Katara with waterbending very narrowly. Katara has more fine control but Korra has more and better showings of raw power in combat plus her physicals give her an edge.

I've never been too impressed with Toph from a combat perspective. And I think Korra's use of airbending (air spouts, tornadoes) counters her fighting style.

I think Korra actually has Zuko beat in raw power though not by much, and airbending gives her that much more mobility and evasive options than Zuko.

I really wish we had seen more of Toph fighting non-earthbenders. She's clearly extremely powerful and skilled, but she still hasn't had a fight with someone like, say, Azula, to really round out her combat showings. Doubt we'll ever get a fight like that in the comics, but one can hope

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#33 Posted by Itachus17 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 in a relatively close fight, give all the Korra's airbending and it becomes rly, rly close.

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#34 Posted by ANTHP2000 (19345 posts) - - Show Bio

Aang's elemental masters take this. Each of them are simply better than Korra in their respective elements, and of argue 2 out of 3 of them could go toe to toe with or even outfight a Korra using all 4 elements.

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#35 Posted by Trixie (676 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. Korra was not impressive.

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#36 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 in a relatively close fight, give all the Korra's airbending and it becomes rly, rly close.

I did consider giving all the Korras airbending, thought it might shift things a bit too much to the Korras, but could make a second round if that seems like a better fight

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#37 Posted by ANTHP2000 (19345 posts) - - Show Bio

Katara vs Korra in the waterbending duel would be really cool to watch though.

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#38 Edited by Itachus17 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

To the best of my knowledge, Katara didn't do anything that was exceptional for a water-bender. That time when they went to her tribe the really unique thing about her was that she wouldn't accept just being a healer, as all women there were, while all the guys were taught combat lessons. Yes, she did have one brush with bloodbending, but as far as I recall, she only did it once, and didn't like it.

Bruh...

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Katara is easily the most talented waterbender(not bloodbending) in the whole Avatarverse.

And when I say advanced, I mean able to rely on more advanced forms of bending. Zuko, couldn't manipulate lightning or combustion bend for instance. Azula didn't show she could do it either, even if she was lauded as the more talented of the two.

Brah.....

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I'm actually pretty sure there is not a single other character in the whole Avatarverse more associated with lightning than Azula.

Toph took her first steps towards learning metalbending during the show and so on.

Toph opened a metalbending school and improved notably after the series.

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#39 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@trixie said:

Team 1. Korra was not impressive.

Thank you for the excuse to gif-spam

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A sampling

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#40 Posted by Itachus17 (2535 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@itachus17 said:

Team 1 in a relatively close fight, give all the Korra's airbending and it becomes rly, rly close.

I did consider giving all the Korras airbending, thought it might shift things a bit too much to the Korras, but could make a second round if that seems like a better fight

I personally think it would be almost perfect with all Korra's having access to airbending.

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#41 Edited by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

To the best of my knowledge, Katara didn't do anything that was exceptional for a water-bender. That time when they went to her tribe the really unique thing about her was that she wouldn't accept just being a healer, as all women there were, while all the guys were taught combat lessons. Yes, she did have one brush with bloodbending, but as far as I recall, she only did it once, and didn't like it.

Bruh...

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Katara is easily the most talented waterbender(not bloodbending) in the whole Avatarverse.

If you wanna talk raw power, Korra might have her beat

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There's not many waterbenders who could beat Katara, but Korra just might be one of them

Katara vs Korra in the waterbending duel would be really cool to watch though.

Waterbending fights are always neat to watch (they're so versatile)

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#42 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by ANTHP2000 (19345 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Yeah, water is definitely my favourite element, and Katara and Korra are both exceptional benders.

That said, I think Katara's ship feat is better than Korra's mech feat, though they're comparable. Katara sent the warship like a thousand feet back with that wave.

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#44 Posted by ANTHP2000 (19345 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Korra vs Zuko could go either way this round, but I'm still backing the OGs in the other 2.

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#45 Posted by Alsimmons77 (1091 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Still Zuko/Toph/Katara, but it's an even better fight in the new round.

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#46 Edited by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:

@arcus1: Yeah, water is definitely my favourite element, and Katara and Korra are both exceptional benders.

That said, I think Katara's ship feat is better than Korra's mech feat, though they're comparable. Katara sent the warship like a thousand feet back with that wave.

The way waterbending fights can be so fluid and graceful (like Katara vs Pakku) or so brutal (like Unalaq vs Tonraq) offers a lot of options. And the way they're always redirecting/repurposing attacks can get pretty creative too

A thousand feet seems a bit much, but I'm not sure I care enough to really look at it that closely (which means I'll probably end up doing just that)

Korra probably didn't move the mech back quite as far (it was a pretty good distance though), but the mech would've been harder to move in the first place (it's not floating, and was advancing towards Korra). I have no idea how the mech would compare to the ship in terms of size/weight

Plus, Korra took less time to do it (Katara first raised the wave, then pushed it forward, while Korra just used one move), and she converted it into a flash freeze. Imo, it's made more impressive by just how unstoppable the mech was up to that point

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#47 Edited by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:

I think Korra vs Zuko could go either way this round, but I'm still backing the OGs in the other 2.

Only the waterbending Korra changed in the bonus round (the other two already had air)

I'm assuming you're talking about Korra (air and fire) vs Zuko?

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#48 Posted by Outside_85 (22583 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruh...

Katara is easily the most talented waterbender(not bloodbending) in the whole Avatarverse.

Brah.....

I'm actually pretty sure there is not a single other character in the whole Avatarverse more associated with lightning than Azula.

Toph opened a metalbending school and improved notably after the series.

Thats not a display of talent for Katara, please, it's a waterbender pushing a boat with a wave... while they are at sea. If anything it's a display of raw power, considering the actual movement of water is the same they use when they heal someone.

Well you might be right. Though Mako also appeared to have learned it.

Which is irrelevant unless it's actually Old Toph thats in this fight, which is my impression it isn't.

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#49 Posted by Arcus1 (26513 posts) - - Show Bio

Which is irrelevant unless it's actually Old Toph thats in this fight, which is my impression it isn't.

Comic feats are allowed for Toph (Toph opens her metalbending school in the comics)

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#50 Edited by ANTHP2000 (19345 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@anthp2000 said:

@arcus1: Yeah, water is definitely my favourite element, and Katara and Korra are both exceptional benders.

That said, I think Katara's ship feat is better than Korra's mech feat, though they're comparable. Katara sent the warship like a thousand feet back with that wave.

The way waterbending fights can be so fluid and graceful (like Katara vs Pakku) or so brutal (like Unalaq vs Tonraq) offers a lot of options. And the way they're always redirecting/repurposing attacks can get pretty creative too

A thousand feet seems a bit much, but I'm not sure I care enough to really look at it that closely (which means I'll probably end up doing just that)

Korra probably didn't move the mech back quite as far (it was a pretty good distance though), but the mech would've been harder to move in the first place (it's not floating, and was advancing towards Korra). I have no idea how the mech would compare to the ship in terms of size/weight

Plus, Korra took less time to do it (Katara first raised the wave, then pushed it forward, while Korra just used one move), and she converted it into a flash freeze. Imo, it's made more impressive by just how unstoppable the mech was up to that point

Here's an analysis I had done a while ago, I feel like it's an extremely underrated feat of raw power; judging by how big these Fire Nation guards (should be around 6 ft. tall, average) seem in comparison to the ship's length (horizontally), the ship's back should be about 100 ft. long. And as we see in the gif, the ending result is the ships going from about 100 ft. distance to 10+ times more distance.

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The Collosus is very noticably larger than a Fire Nation Navy Ship however, which is why I think the feats are comporable despite Korra only forcing it back a few feet.

@arcus1 said:
@anthp2000 said:

I think Korra vs Zuko could go either way this round, but I'm still backing the OGs in the other 2.

Only the waterbending Korra changed in the bonus round (the other two already had air)

I'm assuming you're talking about Korra (air and fire) vs Zuko?

I didn't notice that, and yeah I'm talking about that matchup. If I had to choose, I'd still pick Zuko (he's an insanely precise bender, which works well against Korra's mobility advantage) but it's a close fight regardless, and I can see her winning.