Zuko (Blue Spirit) vs Aragorn

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#1 Posted by Mandarinestro (7651 posts) - - Show Bio

Prince Zuko/The Blue Spirit

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Aragorn II Elessar

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Conditions

  • No bending
  • Standard knowledge
  • In character
  • Begins 15 meters apart

Location

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#2 Posted by Mandarinestro (7651 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

Aragorn: better stats, more skilled, shown fighting more opponents

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#4 Edited by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio
@arcus said:

Aragorn: better stats, more skilled, shown fighting more opponents

Zuko can cut arrows out of the air and time lightning. He wins.

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#5 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: Avatarverse lightning isn't as fast as real lightning, people who clearly aren't lightning timers can and have reacted to it

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#6 Posted by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus said:

@rogueshadow: Avatarverse lightning isn't as fast as real lightning, people who clearly aren't lightning timers can and have reacted to it

I see this point raised all the time, nothing suggests it is slower other than the 'frame rate'. Predicating the speed of lightning based on the speed it is on screen is the definition of overanalysing. By the end of the series, people regularly lightning time. If you want to base it on those calcs, people still have reactions times in the mach 50s etc still beyond anything Aragorn is anywhere near.

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#7 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

So, we should ignore how fast it is shown to be? Or that people who have reacted to lightning have also been hit by attacks slower than real world lightning?

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#8 Posted by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus: We'll just leave the calcs and agree to disagree, because like I said, if we base it on that, they are still in the double digit machs, so it doesn't change this battle anyway. Examples? I'm not sure what you mean, if you're referring to things like arrows, then that generally occurs only in earlier seasons. Avatar characters regularly make light work of arrows later on.

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#9 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Like bending attacks and the like. I'd be very surprised if Aragorn doesn't have feats to indicate he can deal with arrows.

Zuko got overwhelmed dealing with a dozen or so soldiers, Aragorn takes on dozens of soldiers no problem

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#10 Edited by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus: All that really means is that soldiers in Avatar >>> soldiers in LotR. In the world of Avatar, humans can time lightning, smash chains and kick big-ass rocks with their feet. Aragorn has one feat from the mines of Moria wherein he dodges an arrow from afar, that's the only one I have ever caught.

When it comes down to it, Aragorn simply can't compete with speed like this in my opinion:

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Whether it's actual lightning or mach 50, it's way too fast for Aragorn, come on now.

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#11 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Except Fire Nation soldiers aren't that good

That gif's sped up

Yeah, earthbenders smash rocks

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#12 Edited by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus: The speed of the gif is insignificant, it's the fact that he can react to lightning. I was referring to this stuff.

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Humans in Avatar aren't normal humans.

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#13 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Yeah, the lightning's slower than the gif makes it appear to be

Correct, Iroh is not a normal human. He is the dragon god of tea, love, and everything awesome in the universe. :)

I'm not denying that Zuko's stats are above a real human's, same's true for Aragorn. Doesn't make him a lightning timer

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#14 Posted by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus: I've already established that I don't care about how fast lightning moves onscreen, it's faulty logic and doesn't take into account the art style, budget and the fact that it's a Goddamn cartoon. Lightning is lightning, I find it ridiculous.

However, ignoring that debate and focussing just on Zuko vs Aragorn -- even based on what you are saying, the agreed upon 'calcs' as I've seen them in anime forums still put Avatar lightning at mach 10+ speed, hell, Iroh reacts to mach 54 lightning. These speeds are way more than Aragorn can contend with. It's too much for him to go up against. So even based on your stance with the onscreen appearance being relevant, it's too fast for Aragorn in my opinion.

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#15 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

Well if you're going to ignore how it's presented on the show, then I'm not sure what else there is to discuss

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#16 Edited by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus: If you want to discuss it based on the onscreen appearance, Zuko is still way too fast for him.

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#17 Posted by RolandAlderas (1925 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know why people say dodging or reacting to lightning in Avatar is such a big accomplishment. There are plenty of things to consider when we are talking about people in Avatar reacting to lightning.

They are all benders and likely know how lightning is bent, especially Zuko. There is always fluid movements and to actually shoot the lightning the user must direct it through their body to direct it at their opponent. That gives whoever is reacting to said lightning time to notice what their opponent is doing and react accordingly. It's pretty much aim dodging a gun. Just because some comic character dodges bullets doesn't make him faster than the bullet, since in most cases they are anticipating where the bullet it going to be fired and reacting before the shot takes place. Similar to how avatar characters dodge lightning.

Anyway...

I see Aragorn taking this based off of the experience he would have throughout the 80+ years he has been alive. Zuko was very skilled but Aragorn has so much more battle experience than Zuko that I can't see him losing.

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#18 Edited by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolandalderas: There are undoubted instances of timing the lightning, see the video above. Aang and Iroh have done the same.

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#19 Posted by Savageslayer (1379 posts) - - Show Bio

Aragorn, more powerful, and can take him in swordplay. Havent seen zuko fight any armored trolls.

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#20 Posted by RolandAlderas (1925 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolandalderas: There are undoubted instances of timing the lightning, see the video above. Aang and Iroh have done the same.

Regardless they are all benders, expert benders. They just see the person shooting lightning and react accordingly. Even when Iroh did it on the ship, notice he took a stance and inhaled his breath before it struck, so he knew it was coming.

Fact is that to shoot lightning you must perform the needed movements to bend it which could clearly be seen by whoever is "dodging" the lightning.

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#21 Edited by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolandalderas: Zuko moved into its path, he outpaced lightning. Aang gets it from behind:

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Iroh sees it coming and reacts accordingly:

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These two and Zuko's reaction to Azula's lightning are undeniable timing feats, not aim dodging.

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#22 Posted by RolandAlderas (1925 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: Once again...

They are benders. They can see the other person doing the movements for lightning, like Aang vs Ozai. Anyway this is a moot point.

Do you have any feats of them, aside from redirecting lightning, which would place them in the speed category you are shooting for? I can't remember one instance in Avatar for Zuko moving that fast. Of course he is above peak human but I don't think he moves that much faster than other humans in the series. Aragorn shouldn't have problems keeping up with that speed since he is a battle trained veteran.

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#23 Posted by Bystander (2406 posts) - - Show Bio

The Son of Arathorn For The Win!

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#26 Edited by rogueshadow (29601 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolandalderas: CV keeps eating my posts.

Disagree, Aang caught it coming from behind him and turned fast enough to catch it, Zuko moved after the blast and then literally outpaced the lightning and there was no bender to predict in the case of Iroh, it's undoubted timing.

There isn't much for them to react to due to the most advanced technology being arrows, this is the best one I can think of:

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#27 Posted by Mandarinestro (7651 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#28 Edited by someoneisone (39 posts) - - Show Bio

some good points here.

I mean, they are arguably lightning timers, whenever someone reacted to it or dodged it they didnt fail at it making it consistent

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#29 Edited by someoneisone (39 posts) - - Show Bio
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bad quality gif but i put it at 16 fps for maxium smoothness

here you can see iroh moving so fast before azula can react and after her lightning was shot

lightning timers confirmed

edit: iroh wasnt even on the boat until she shot lightning

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#30 Posted by Mandarinestro (7651 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump