Zuko and Kuvira vs Ghazan and Ming-Hua

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darthfallax

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Unloved Children:

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The Red Lotus:

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Rules:

  • Zuko and Kuvira have one week to learn how to fight with each other, otherwise no prep.
  • Standart gear. Two Zaofu metal sheets are lying on the ground.
  • Ming-Hua starts with two arms.
  • Fight takes place on Air Temple island.
  • Starting distance: 15m
  • Morals on.

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darthfallax

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DeathHero61

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#3 DeathHero61  Online

Zuko takes out Ming, Kuvira takes out Ghazan.

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geekryan

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Zuko stands no chance against either Ming or Ghazan. He was already quickly taken out by the Red Lotus, as well as his dragon, as an adult. TLA Zuko is getting destroyed.

Kuvira is fast and skilled enough to pull a win against either of them 1on1, but at the Air Temple and with only 2 metal sheets, she is limited.

Red Lotus win 8/10

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Tektonic

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Wow it's been a while since a new ATLA/LOK thread. Ok let's see matchups:

Kuvira vs Ming Hua - 50/50 Not sure how that would go.

Kuvira vs Ghazan - If she can overwhelm him before he summons enough lava than she can win, but if he can she is screwed. I'll say 60/40 in favor of Kuvira.

Zuko vs Ming Hua - I'll say Ming, more options and comparable power(crystals vs boulders).

Zuko vs Ghazan - Lava is just too much for most including Zuko to handle.

I'll go with the RL.

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justicethorpsylocke

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Yeah Zuko basically gets smacked. Kuvira could beat Ghazan and has a good change at Ming, but Zuko is too much of a weak link.

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ANTHP2000

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Given the OP, I'm pretty sure this is current Zuko from A:TLA, in which case I don't see why he's such a weak link.

I'd have them Ming Hua >= Kuvira > Zuko > Ghazan. I think the gap between Zuko and Ghazan is larger than the gap between Ming Hua and Kuvira, by a solid margin. But like always, it also depends on the matchups.

If Kuvira takes on Ghazan while Zuko takes on Ming Hua, Ming is going to get double teamed soon. Ghazan might will immense raw scale and power with his lavabending, but that takes time, and against one of the swiftest benders in the world (Kuvira), he's in for a significantly uphill battle. She can just trip him up through environmental earthbending and tap him with a strip, in which case it's immediately over.

In terms of Zuko vs Ming Hua, while I don't think he'd last that long against her, he's at least good enough to pose a legimate threat unless she immediately goes for the kill with a blitz/flash freeze - in which case she'd then beat Kuvira and win it for her side. I guess in this scenario, it can go either way.

If Kuvira goes for Ming Hua while Zuko goes for Ghazan, the matchups are both incredibly close (and I think that's what the OP was planning to put forward for a balanced match). I can see Kuvira going at it with Ming for quite a while. The latter cannot break through the metal sheets, and I doubt she's fast enough to overwhelm her as easily as she would most people. At the same time however, Kuvira has no plausible shot at tagging Ming Hua, in spite of her amazing battlefield control, draw speed and accuracy. Ming remains only second to Aang in speed and agility in the Avatarverse.

Zuko vs Ghazan, I don't see Zuko losing. He's got the power and speed of fire to break down any raw earthbending attempt from Ghazan, he's faster and can close in in almost no time, and lay a beatdown on Ghazan up close. The location also doesn't particularly favor Ghazan, as it is quite an open space. I've also always argued that regular earthbending in general can be abused by highily agile people to help evade and close any gap. Now, Zuko's not Azula in agility or speed, but Ghazan is not Toph in earthbending, so there you have it.

Those secanrios would be very good and extremely close matchups, and I'd back Zuko and Kuvira on that one. Lastly, if we go by an all out brawl between the teams, I'd again back Zuko and Kuvira, because of Kuviras ability to cheap shot anyone (or at least Ghazan) through her quick draw.

I'll back Team 1 6/10 times. Very good matchup.

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Marishtar

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Given the OP, I'm pretty sure this is current Zuko from A:TLA, in which case I don't see why he's such a weak link.

I'd have them Ming Hua >= Kuvira > Zuko > Ghazan. I think the gap between Zuko and Ghazan is larger than the gap between Ming Hua and Kuvira, by a solid margin. But like always, it also depends on the matchups.

If Kuvira takes on Ghazan while Zuko takes on Ming Hua, Ming is going to get double teamed soon. Ghazan might will immense raw scale and power with his lavabending, but that takes time, and against one of the swiftest benders in the world (Kuvira), he's in for a significantly uphill battle. She can just trip him up through environmental earthbending and tap him with a strip, in which case it's immediately over.

In terms of Zuko vs Ming Hua, while I don't think he'd last that long against her, he's at least good enough to pose a legimate threat unless she immediately goes for the kill with a blitz/flash freeze - in which case she'd then beat Kuvira and win it for her side. I guess in this scenario, it can go either way.

If Kuvira goes for Ming Hua while Zuko goes for Ghazan, the matchups are both incredibly close (and I think that's what the OP was planning to put forward for a balanced match). I can see Kuvira going at it with Ming for quite a while. The latter cannot break through the metal sheets, and I doubt she's fast enough to overwhelm her as easily as she would most people. At the same time however, Kuvira has no plausible shot at tagging Ming Hua, in spite of her amazing battlefield control, draw speed and accuracy. Ming remains only second to Aang in speed and agility in the Avatarverse.

Zuko vs Ghazan, I don't see Zuko losing. He's got the power and speed of fire to break down any raw earthbending attempt from Ghazan, he's faster and can close in in almost no time, and lay a beatdown on Ghazan up close. The location also doesn't particularly favor Ghazan, as it is quite an open space. I've also always argued that regular earthbending in general can be abused by highily agile people to help evade and close any gap. Now, Zuko's not Azula in agility or speed, but Ghazan is not Toph in earthbending, so there you have it.

Those secanrios would be very good and extremely close matchups, and I'd back Zuko and Kuvira on that one. Lastly, if we go by an all out brawl between the teams, I'd again back Zuko and Kuvira, because of Kuviras ability to cheap shot anyone (or at least Ghazan) through her quick draw.

I'll back Team 1 6/10 times. Very good matchup.

This.

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vengefulshot

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Ghazan is a weak link, but Ming Hua is the MVP.

Tie, entirely dependant on who fights who.

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Arcus1

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Wasn't looking for this matchup, but it's a good one, imo

However the fights break down, I could see it going either way

I don't see Zuko as a weak link like some are suggesting, he's a tier above Mako in firebending and Mako showed he could at least pressure Ming Hua in the RL cave. Granted, Ming Hua will be in better fighting shape here, so it definitely wouldn't be as easy as it was for Mako in the finale, but it won't be a repeat of Mako fighting Ming Hua at night at Misty Palms either. And while Ghazan's lava would be new for Zuko, Zuko does have the offensive power to pressure Ghazan's defenses as well (it won't be like the North Pole, where an old Zuko's trying to fight Ghazan at night in a site chosen specifically because it would be cold enough to suppress firebending).

Kuvira vs Ghazan or Ming Hua would be interesting as well. Kuvira and Ghazan are largely on opposite ends of the earthbending spectrum, and honestly it'd be very interesting to see how they'd go about fighting each other. Ming Hua would be problematic for Kuvira, honestly that might be the one matchup here where I could give one of them an edge (Ming's agility would help against Kuvira's fast paced offense, her water arm style would help her continue to bend if she gets tagged, and we've seen her bust metal-providing her a means to remove Kuvira's metal strips without metalbending). The metal sheets do help provide Kuvira with additional defense against Ming

I might go for the Red Lotus, slightly. They should have better teamwork than Kuvira and Zuko (though the inclusion of time for Kuvira and Zuko to learn to work together does help mitigate that), and I think Ming has a slight edge over Kuvira. However, I could also see arguments for Zuko having a similar edge over Ghazan via raw power right from the start. I would imagine an earthbender of Ghazan's implied caliber would be able to hold his own, but it hasn't been explicitly shown in feats. If either Zuko or Kuvira are able to isolate Ghazan and go full offense on him from the start, I could see them winning, but it won't take long for Ghazan to start building momentum

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thebluedragon20

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Kuvira should be able to take down Ghazan pretty quickly. He doesn't have much mobility, and she can counter his defenses. I doubt he would be able to get much lava out before she takes him down.

Zuko can definitely hold Ming hua off for a respectable amount of time, if not defeat her. Either way, him and kuvira together make short work of her.

I say team 1 9/10

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vengefulshot

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Depends how quickly Ming can dispatch her opponent. Both Zuko and Kuvira are well suited to fight Ghazan and I'd wager that they can defeat him whilst the other fights Ming, so team fire/metal for a slim majority.

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Domnguyen30

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I think you guys are underestimating Zuko. I'll bring up an overlooked feat

https://i.imgur.com/M8FEV0W.jpg

He shoots a 1/4 inch chain into 7 different pieces. That would take over 5 tons of force. Zuko could easily oneshot any boulder or push back Ming Hua's water defense easily. I'd say Zuko could defeat either one of them

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CocaColaMan

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Ming Hua's the most effective fighter here IMO, and her being armless kind of counters Kuvira's metalbending strips to an extent. Ghazan can also potentially give Ming Hua pillars to swing from. I'm backing the Red Lotus duo.

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BigDreamer48

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#15 BigDreamer48  Online

Ming-Hua is the best here imo. She's very well suited to fight Kuvira, so I'd say she can beat either of Team 1. However, I also see either of Team 1 beating Ghazan in a 1 vs. 1.

Ming and Ghazan will have better team work, but Team 1 has a slightly higher bending average. If Kuvira can quickly incapacitate Ghazan with her metal strips I'll hand it to Team 1 since I can see Zuko at least stalling Ming for a little bit, but otherwise, the Red Lotus duo can snag this win.

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frijacks12345

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#16  Edited By frijacks12345

RL Low-mid diff imo.