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#1 Edited by Cs1013 (76 posts) - - Show Bio

* All characters are at the end of their respective shows

Round 1: Morals on

Round 2: Bloodlusted for everyone

location: crystal catacombs, and comet is active(Bonus Round) but it is late at night

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#2 Posted by Hiddenstorm (240 posts) - - Show Bio

Zutara ftw Season 2 Katara was beating Azula so season 3 Katara shouldn't have much trouble... Zuke vs Bolin could go either way

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#3 Posted by deactivated-5c15205dbdcac (503 posts) - - Show Bio

Katara vs Azula : Katara

Zuko vs bolin : Probably Bolin

I am leaning towards Team 2 just because I don't see Zuko or katara countering bolin lava bending

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#4 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26770 posts) - - Show Bio

Katara and Azula are dead even, but Zuko is a good bit above Bolin in most ways, so Team 1.

Team 2 wins R2, the firebenders are plain much bigger factors than Katara or Bolin here, and Azula comes off as superior to Zuko.

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#5 Posted by Alsimmons77 (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

Zutara ftw Season 2 Katara was beating Azula so season 3 Katara shouldn't have much trouble...

@bpg said:

Katara vs Azula : Katara

No Caption Provided

Book 3 Azula has notably better feats than book 2 Azula and in the book 2 finale was Azula straight up jobbing against Katara, which would especially in round 2 don't happen at all.

Team 1 wins the standard rounds due to Zuko beating Bolin faster than Azula would beat Katara, and both together overwhelm Azula.

Team 2 wins the bonus round by Azula beating Zuko and stomping Katara as afterthought.

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#6 Posted by thebuckaronatr (1765 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 in a solid fight Azula beats Katara and Bolin stalls Zuko. And the bonus is an easy win for team 2.

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#7 Posted by katrurius17 (1146 posts) - - Show Bio

@hiddenstorm said:

Zutara ftw Season 2 Katara was beating Azula so season 3 Katara shouldn't have much trouble...

@bpg said:

Katara vs Azula : Katara

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Book 3 Azula has notably better feats than book 2 Azula and in the book 2 finale was Azula straight up jobbing against Katara, which would especially in round 2 don't happen at all.

Team 1 wins the standard rounds due to Zuko beating Bolin faster than Azula would beat Katara, and both together overwhelm Azula.

Team 2 wins the bonus round by Azula beating Zuko and stomping Katara as afterthought.

This, Azula has better feats in the most important categories and just 1 pis moment in season 2 can't change that.

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#8 Edited by Crimson-Feather (114 posts) - - Show Bio

I always felt like Azula was somewhat underperforming against Katara in the Crystal Cave, i think Azula would win because of her greater agility, precision and firepower.

Bolin could give Zuko trouble lava but i think Zuko might be to fast for him, which means Zuko probably wins.

Azula would win against Zuko but i doubt the fights would be simultaneously over, each team has probably around 50% chance to win. Azula and Bolin should win with Sozin's Comet because of the big upgrade for Zuko and Azula.

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#9 Edited by Hiddenstorm (240 posts) - - Show Bio

@alsimmons77: Why would Azula be jobbing against Katara ?, is there anything to suggest she was ? or is Katara not aloud to beat Azula or something? Why can one just be like "Katara can't be beating Azula so let's confirm Azula was holding back for once in her life without any reasons"

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#10 Posted by Helloman (29574 posts) - - Show Bio

Team two wins both rounds.

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#11 Edited by Itachus17 (3397 posts) - - Show Bio

It goes imo:

Azula >= Katara > Zuko > Bolin

R1 + R2:Going with team 1 in a pretty close fight.

Bonus: Team 2 decisively, that is rly just between the Royal siblings.

@hiddenstorm said:

@alsimmons77: Why would Azula be jobbing against Katara ?, is there anything to suggest she was ?

Is that question serious? If yeah, it starts with this madness here(even Sokka would have casually dodged that highly telegraphed and not especially fast attack):

No Caption Provided

or is Katara not aloud to beat Azula or something? Why can one just be like "Katara can't be beating Azula so let's confirm Azula was holding back for once in her life without any reasons"

Katara would be allowed but not if it's as inconsistent and nonsensical as in the catacombs imho(btw just the second time Azula was holding back and Kemurikage Azula even did it the whole time).

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#13 Posted by Hiddenstorm (240 posts) - - Show Bio

@itachus17: I see your point Azula could've totally dodged that attack (but maybe she was focusing on Aang and Zuko, although I'm not confirming she was) I was referring to Katara catching Azula's arm and leg with her water arms / tentacles, Azula had no reason whatsoever to pull her punches against Katara, She killed Aang minutes later

Bot: Katara can easily flash freeze Azula and Bolin...

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#14 Posted by Itachus17 (3397 posts) - - Show Bio

@hiddenstorm:

I see your point Azula could've totally dodged that attack (but maybe she was focusing on Aang and Zuko, although I'm not confirming she was)

That would be quite literally jobbing though.

I was referring to Katara catching Azula's arm and leg with her water arms / tentacles

Even that was pretty questionable for a number of reasons, first it was right after that absurd splash(to give Katara enough time to even draw enough water in the first place), second look at how Azula was not attacking and waited pretty much until the last moment(without any good reason) while Katara was almost dancing:

No Caption Provided

and last but not least Azula just shooting an small ineffective blast at the arm(without any good reason and then she even replicated it with the second arm), Azula did this(instantly vaporizing a much bigger amount of water should be much harder than just to vaporize a small water arm) just minutes beforehand:

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And no, Katara's water arms were clearly not somehow especially fireproof:

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Like mentioned the catacombs encounter was just rly, rly inconsistent

Azula had no reason whatsoever to pull her punches against Katara, She killed Aang minutes later

Well that made it even worse, but Azula had also no reason(except plot) to not just kill Aang after knocking him out here(on the drill):

No Caption Provided

Bot: Katara can easily flash freeze Azula and Bolin...

Nope, that would be just possible under very specific circumstances.

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#15 Edited by Hiddenstorm (240 posts) - - Show Bio

@itachus17: seriously You're getting really technical with Azula being able to vaporize a large amount of water and not doing the same every single time she's bending, it is an animation btw and why is Azula waiting for Katara to attack her, why was she doing nothing? There's not a single avatar character who does the same level stuff every single time they bend plus Firebenders can't bend fire inside water so no the water arms are not fireproof

But the main point is that Katara was beating Azula and there is no proof to suggest that Azula was holding back and maybe if Katara was a average bender or was beaten by weaker benders than Azula than it would've been questionable if Azula was holding back or not but since Katara just like Azula was constantly shown to be a superb bender, so why isn't it possible for Katara to gain the upperhand against Azula?

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#16 Posted by Uryuishidasama (142 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys are not serious if I remembered correctly during the comet zuko was destroying azula before she cheated attacking katara and again have forgotten that during the comet it was katara who beat azula and imprisoned her. And you somehow suggest that azula is stronger when she clearly lost to katara even with the comet boost.

Team 1 stomps both round casually bolin is a non factor

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#17 Posted by Itachus17 (3397 posts) - - Show Bio

@hiddenstorm:

seriously You're getting really technical with Azula being able to vaporize a large amount of water and not doing the same every single time she's bending

It makes not much sense for her to suddenly fail at small water arms if she already instantly vaporized a much bigger amount of water in the same encounter, especially not if Zuko also easily goes through the water arms it shortly afterwards.

it is an animation btw and why is Azula waiting for Katara to attack her, why was she doing nothing?

You tell me? It makes no logical sense and is called jobbing.

There's not a single avatar character who does the same level stuff every single time

Don't using effective techniques you used just minutes beforehand against the same person, don't attacking and don't dodging if you're one of the most agile benders is called jobbing and don't makes any logical sense.

they bend plus Firebenders can't bend fire inside water so no the water arms are not fireproof

Azula was bending before the waterarms reached her and the second time with another limb not inside the water.

But the main point is that Katara was beating Azula

Yeah in a fight where Azula jobbed like crazy, Jet was also technically beating Aang.

and there is no proof to suggest that Azula was holding back

Except that Azula didn't dodge, didn't attack and suddenly forgot techniques she used just minutes beforehand. It was literally one of the most blatant examples of jobbing we ever saw in ATLA.

maybe if Katara was a average bender or was beaten by weaker benders than Azula

You mean like General Fong? Or as more fitting example like the obviously weaker bender(pretty obviously considering it was just pre-dragon B2) Zuko stalemating Katara right after that:

No Caption Provided

but since Katara just like Azula was constantly shown to be a superb bender

Azula was consistently shown as faster and more agile than Katara and dodged much harder attacks in virtually all encounters before and after the catacombs, this is what Azula consistently did in almost all other encounters:

No Caption Provided

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and so on...

Hell even while gliding into insanity and fully insane + exhausted:

No Caption Provided
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and again this what happened in the catacombs without any logical reason:

No Caption Provided

And that was literally the core of how Katara even suddenly gained the upperhand, without that splash wouldn't have been the octopus/water arms not even possible(except Azula would job even more ridiculous and stand even longer useless around).

so why isn't it possible for Katara to gain the upperhand against Azula?

It would be possible if they had shown Katara gaining the upperhand against a non-jobbing Azula instead of inconsistent nonsense, but that didn't happen and it's indeed impossible that Katara just blitzed Azula with her highly telegraphed splash(that would make Katara easily the fastest bender in the whole Avatarverse and is completely inconsistent).

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#18 Posted by Itachus17 (3397 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys are not serious if I remembered correctly during the comet zuko was destroying azula before she cheated attacking katara and again have forgotten that during the comet it was katara who beat azula and imprisoned her. And you somehow suggest that azula is stronger when she clearly lost to katara even with the comet boost.

Team 1 stomps both round casually bolin is a non factor

No Caption Provided

You're obviously not remembering correctly, that was insane Crazula and had massively context...

Hell it was even Zuko himself who explained why Azula was weaker there after he outright admited to Iroh that he would need help against Azula, what the hell do you think why Katara was even there in the first place? And Katara got completely overwhelmed and was literally running for her life until she luckily found the gatter with water beneath and the chain, then she was able to trick a mentally completely gone + exhausted Azula(Katara avoided Azula as good as she could and would have horribly died in a straight up fight).

And this is what the official Avatar Extras have to say about that:

  1. Azula is normally a much better fighter than Zuko.
  2. But Zuko has learned to control his rage ...
  3. ... And Azula is starting to crack.

Zuko was just able to gain the upperhand due to a perfect combo of his dragon training and Azula's insanity + mental breakdown, so and just get that straight now Zuko is in fact even my favourite chacter in the whole Avatarverse but Azula is painfully obvious the better fighter if mentally stable enough.

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#19 Posted by Myleftbuttcheeksolos (408 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1

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#20 Posted by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

team 1. zuko and azula are pretty much equal. bolin is fodder. water counters electricty and fire. Icicle attacks are lethal.

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#21 Posted by Wrathofthebrad (840 posts) - - Show Bio

That crystal catacombs fight was bullshit, but Katara would put up a good fight, and Zuko also came closer to Azula.

Boling could give his team a big advantage if he transforms the field into lava, but Katara could use water waves to deal with that and her and Zuko's teamwork should be better.

I think team 1 would edge it out without Comet.

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#22 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (840 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilcabbage said:

team 1. zuko and azula are pretty much equal. bolin is fodder. water counters electricty and fire. Icicle attacks are lethal.

Azula is stronger than Zuko period, Bolin isn't fodder, water doesn't counter lightning and with Azula not even always fire, fire counters ice and Azula could effortlesly dodge the icicles and Bolin shield himself.

I think team 1 edges it out as well, but your arguments are wrong.

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#23 Posted by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad: Nah pretty even. Water does counter lighting it essentially blocks it. Azula doesn't use fire? Show me azula melting icicles mid fire. Bolin is fodder anyone beats him.

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#24 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (840 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilcabbage:

Nah pretty even. Water does counter lighting it essentially blocks it. Azula doesn't use fire? Show me azula melting icicles mid fire. Bolin is fodder anyone beats him.

They aren't even by feats, standing, creators intention or Zuko's own admission.

If water blocks lightning how has Mako killed Ming Hua?

Azula uses fire and can even vaporize water with it like someone has posted.

No Caption Provided

Vaporizing water >>> melting ice period.

Bolin might be the weakest of the 4, but he is not fodder, and lava bending is very useful.

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#25 Edited by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad: Zuko vs Azula last fight in avatar. dead even.

don't know these chinese people and idc.

. icicle velocity> water wave velocity

Just looked up lava bending. Thats actually op team 2 stomps r2. Bolin isn't fodder Id put him above everyone here.

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#26 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (840 posts) - - Show Bio
@lilcabbage said:

@wrathofthebrad: Zuko vs Azula last fight in avatar. dead even.

don't know these chinese people and idc.

. icicle velocity> water wave velocity

Just looked up lava bending. Thats actually op team 2 stomps r2. Bolin isn't fodder Id put him above everyone here.

Zuko was winning and Azula weakened due to crazy.

Lightning is electricity. Mako is the brother of Bolin and a fire bender and Ming Hua a water bender, Mako killed Ming Hua with lightning because water don't blocks lightning but conducts it and makes it even more dangerous.

Azula's fire vaporized the water in under a second, ice melts far earlier and Katara can't shoot supersonic icicles. Shooting ice at a fire bender is stupid and Azula has even hotter fire than usual fire benders.

Why are you even writing in this thread and call Bolin fodder if you don't even know him, Bolin is not fodder and not the strongest and nobody is stomping anything.

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#27 Edited by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad: so bloodlust=weaken cool

or she couldn't react. Either way argument from ignorance.

When did I argue she shoots supersonic icicles, strawman. I guess doing anything against a fire bender is stupid cause they also vaped water. The gif shows that it was more then a second. At least 1.5 seconds. Read post above pretty inconsistent water put out fire in 1 gif.

watched 1 season lol. Bolin makes lava under them and they burn their feat and die. Bolin makes the ground around him lava no one gets near him. Bolin throws lava at them unblockable. Lava 1 shots.

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#28 Posted by Itachus17 (3397 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad: so bloodlust=weaken cool

Just because she was bloodlusted doesn't mean she was in control. That is what even Zuko mentios saying that something is off about her and she is slipping.

She has eye bags under her eyes which also meant she was tired and not sleeping well. Not to mention, after a little spar, she was out of breath already. THIS SCREAMS SHE WAS EXTREMELY TIRED.

Next time, pay attention to context.

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#30 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@itachus17: If you don't put these trolls in their place now, they will spread this bullshit elsewhere.

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#31 Posted by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: You again lol. You're saying zuko and azula fought the day after azula went crazy? Pretty sure it was on the same day. When does zuko say she's slipping? Just because azula is crazy doesn't mean she loses all ability to fight. Literally dead even fight. Oh wow she was out of breath after a fight Lol.

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#32 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilcabbage said:

@theoriginalone: You again lol. You're saying zuko and azula fought the day after azula went crazy? Pretty sure it was on the same day. When does zuko say she's slipping? Just because azula is crazy doesn't mean she loses all ability to fight. Literally dead even fight. Oh wow she was out of breath after a fight Lol.

What?? Azula was going crazy before the invasion even started. She was seeing her dead mother and losing it. This happened because of the weight of the responsibility and losing her friends.

The fact that you don't know zuko said that shows me you haven't seen the fight. It was in Book 3, episode 20.

And for God sakes, go see the fight again. Even though her attacks were powerful, they were wild, emotional and reckless while Zuko's were calm and disciplined. She was expanding more energy than necessary. If you know a goddamn thing about Azula, she was always very technical, smart and disciplined. That is why Zuko has never been a match for her before. Go see the fight again.

Also, why I said tired is because she was mentally and physically tired. You do know what happens to a athlete where they are mentally or physically strained? They can't output the best of their ability, they can't think and because they tire out much quicker, they lose movement and speed. The best thing about Azula (other than her fire) are her MOVEMENT and SPEED. In this fight, she was recklessly charging head on.

Also, why was she getting tired and not Zuko when it was always established she was better than Zuko in everything.

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#33 Edited by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: When she broke the mirror wasn't that the same day they fought.

Or I haven't watched the fight in like 5 yrs. Go get a vid clip prove it.

Wow so butthurt. Like I said bloodlusted and an even fight. Even if Azula wasn't crazy it wouldn't have made a difference. Huh I remember zuko kicking her off a boat or something.

You said she couldn't sleep before the fight implying that the fight took place the day after she went crazy. When someone is stressed they don't lose movement, power, or energy. Physically tired? She was getting pampered all day Lmao.

Its called character development. You know when zuko could actually stand up to ozai.

You call me a troll yet you say the difference between temari and sasuke is street to herald tier. Yet you say sasuke couldn't easily beat her because for some reason he held back, wanted to save stamina when he actually said chakra, use oh its plot as an argument. Lmao for anyone who wants to see it.https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/aang-vs-temari-1989647/

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#34 Posted by MorbusGrav (1181 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula is the mvp and Bolin a weak link, Katara and Zuko in between.

Could go either way in my opinion.

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#35 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilcabbage said:

@theoriginalone: When she broke the mirror wasn't that the same day they fought.

What does this have to do with her stress and anxiety? You do know that stress and anxiety tires you out much more in a shorter amount of time?

Or I haven't watched the fight in like 5 yrs. Go get a vid clip prove it.

Or you can put in the effort to find the video yourself? I even gave you the number of the episode.

Wow so butthurt. Like I said bloodlusted and an even fight. Even if Azula wasn't crazy it wouldn't have made a difference. Huh I remember zuko kicking her off a boat or something.

Yes, it would have. If Azula was in control, she would have used her speed more. She wouldn't have charged as wildly as she did and no spam useless attacks. Do you not remember the fight she had when with Aang? Her movement and speed was too much for him and he is one of the most agile characters in the hole of Avatar.

In her fight with Aang in the desert, she was able to repel the attacks of Zuko, Katara, Aang and Toff like nothing. So how the heck can you claim her not being crazy would not have made a difference???

Heck, in book 3, episode 16, when Azula ambushed the group and Zuko fought her a little, Azula was toying with him. Zuko couldn't get a single advantage over her.

You said she couldn't sleep before the fight implying that the fight took place the day after she went crazy. When someone is stressed they don't lose movement, power, or energy. Physically tired? She was getting pampered all day Lmao.

My God, did you not see the eye bags under her eyes??? She was going mad since Mai and Ty Lee betrayed her by letting her go at Boiling rock. She was stressed as she was worried everyone was going to betray her. She was stressed that her mother thought she was a monster.

Stress doesn't make you lose movement power or energy??? Do you always bullshit this much or is today special?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/stress-management/in-depth/stress-symptoms/art-20050987

https://www.anxietycentre.com/anxiety-symptoms/chronic-fatigue-anxiety.shtml

A quote:

"Stress responses, however, stress the body, which can tax the body’s energy resources harder than normal. Too frequent stress responses can leave the body devoid of energy, which can make your body experience chronic fatigue. The more stressed the body becomes, the more fatigued the body can become. Behaving apprehensively too often can overly stress the body and make it feel exhausted, such as with chronic fatigue. If you’ve been under a lot of stress lately, that stress can also make your body feel chronically fatigued, exhausted, and tired all the time. Stress is a common cause of chronic fatigue."

Next time, research something before you make yourself look like a fool.

Its called character development. You know when zuko could actually stand up to ozai.

Huh??? What does this have to do with anything?

You call me a troll yet you say the difference between temari and sasuke is street to herald tier. Yet you say sasuke couldn't easily beat her because for some reason he held back, wanted to save stamina when he actually said chakra, use oh its plot as an argument. Lmao for anyone who wants to see it.https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/aang-vs-temari-1989647/

This coming from you? You used a non-canon incident to prove she has this imaginary speed feat and when I showed you Sasuke actual speed feats and what he has done with you, you ignored it completely. You are the same troll that said Kunai throws are faster than the character itself......

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#36 Edited by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Oh so it did happen on the same day. So now you concede she was ever sleep deprived and you change ur argument to she got the eye bags from stress. I agree she did get the eye brags from stress. "Frequent" We see her getting stressed once before the fight which happens on the same day. Are you saying that one instance of stress caused such a enormous impact on the fight if it didn't happen she would've stomped on zuko ? Well you can't prove this at all lol. All you have are assumptions that the eyebags nerfed her physical state. Even if it did it isn't a drastic change at all , I could be super stressed and still do my average of 10 pull-ups, go run a mile, etc. Wheres that vid clip of Zuko saying to Azula ur slipping, you can't find it can you . Don't remember zuko saying that at all.

You don't even know the basic concept of character development. Goku gets beaten up by frieza. Later he beats him.

You never showed me anything lol. No scans of sasuke being superior then temari. You believed it was canon which was the funniesty part for me.

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#37 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilcabbage said:

@theoriginalone: Oh so it did happen on the same day. So now you concede she was ever sleep deprived and you change ur argument to she got the eye bags from stress. I agree she did get the eye brags from stress. "Frequent" We see her getting stressed once before the fight which happens on the same day. Are you saying that one instance of stress caused such a enormous impact on the fight if it didn't happen she would've stomped on zuko if it didn't happen? Well you can't prove this at all lol. All you have are assumptions. Wheres that vid clip of Zuko saying to Azula ur slipping. Don't remember that at all.

My original argument has always been she was sleep deprived. Just because it happened in the same day doesn't mean she wasn't feeling stressed. Dude, the fact they took the time to show her breakdown was TO EMPHASIZE that it was severe. There has been many times where people can get stressed so much in a short amount of time, that they take their own life. The fact she lost control as she did, the fact that Lo and Li even mentions she is mentally stressed, the fact that Azula was firing everyone, the fact she couldn't even tire her own hair, the fact that she was seeing ghosts shows how severy here stress and anxiety was.

I am not saying she would have stomped Zuko but beat him comfortably. Zuko was not that weak. Also, I don't have assumptions but feats. Her other fights with characters like Aang. And again, go see the episode, it was mentioned twice that she was losing her mind. TWICE.

And just because you don't remember it doesn't mean it didn't happen troll. The worst thing here is - you are debating something you have no full knowledge on. That is why people are calling you a troll, you keep bullshitting about things you don't know.

You never showed me anything lol. No scans of assume being superior then temari. You believed it was canon which was the funniesty part for me.

LMAO, I specifically mentioned feat from the manga and anime proving my point. The gaara and lee fight. The Sasuke and Gaara fight. The sasuke and small bijuu Gaara fight. All of these frats put him above Temari by multiple level. Temari only feat was beating a garbage fodder like Tenten. Sasuke outsped Gaara, who shits on Temari in everyway.

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#38 Edited by Itachus17 (3397 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@itachus17: If you don't put these trolls in their place now, they will spread this bullshit elsewhere.

Well it seems kinda like a waste of time with someone who is literally admiting to have no clue what he/she is even talking about, but let's try it:

@lilcabbage

so bloodlust=weaken cool

Azula was insane, not bloodlusted(sane Azula is usually much closer to the battle foren definition of bloodlusted). And if you had bothered to actually read the thread, i already posted this:

This is what the official Avatar Extras have to say about that:

  1. Azula is normally a much better fighter than Zuko.
  2. But Zuko has learned to control his rage ...
  3. ... And Azula is starting to crack.

Zuko was just able to gain the upperhand due to a perfect combo of his dragon training and Azula's insanity + mental breakdown, so and just get that straight now Zuko is in fact even my favourite chacter in the whole Avatarverse but Azula is painfully obvious the better fighter if mentally stable enough.

or she couldn't react. Either way argument from ignorance.

This is about Mako and Ming Hua in context if water counters lightning, yes? Mako shot his lightning literally into the water and it traveled through the water and killed Ming, the only way to counter lightning with water is indirectly and lightning gets absolutely not blocked by water.

When did I argue she shoots supersonic icicles, strawman. I guess doing anything against a fire bender is stupid cause they also vaped water. The gif shows that it was more then a second. At least 1.5 seconds.

Azula's fire wave instantly vaporized the water wave as they made contact with each other.

Read post above pretty inconsistent water put out fire in 1 gif.

I posted that and explained why it was inconsistent, Katara can't even in her wildest dream put out fire(let alone Azula's hotter blue version) with freaking icicles regardless if Azula jobs or not. And Katara anyways barely uses icicles(so it wouldn't even be very relevent for R1), one of the few times was ironically a good example in the comics about what would actually happen(Azula casually dodging them as literal afterthought):

No Caption Provided

watched 1 season lol. Bolin makes lava under them and they burn their feat and die. Bolin makes the ground around him lava no one gets near him. Bolin throws lava at them unblockable. Lava 1 shots.

Not sure from where the Bolin highballing suddenly comes but neither is lava unblockable nor needs anyone here come close to Bolin, also is Bolin not remotely fast enough to one shot Katara or Zuko.

When does zuko say she's slipping?

Right before the Agni Kai(quotes from IMDB):

Azula: Wait. You want to be Fire Lord? Fine. Let's settle this. Just you and me, brother. The showdown that was always meant to be: Agni Kai.

Prince Zuko: You're on!

Katara: What are you doing? She's playing you. She knows she can't take us both, so she's trying to separate us.

Prince Zuko: I know, but I can take her this time.

Katara: But even you admitted to your uncle that you would need help facing Azula.

Prince Zuko: There's something off about her. I can't explain it, but she's slipping, and this way, no one else has to get hurt.

Just because azula is crazy doesn't mean she loses all ability to fight. Literally dead even fight.

Nobody said she lost all ability to fight, but Zuko himself, the series/creators and Avatar Extras all told us explicit.y that she's weaker than usually.

Oh wow she was out of breath after a fight Lol.

It was in the middle of the fight and more than obviously pretty unusuall, hell Azula danced circles around Aang and partly Toph + Sokka as she had no bending and wasn't even breaking a sweat.

When she broke the mirror wasn't that the same day they fought.

Yes it was but nobody besides you even mentioned different days for that scene and the fight, theoriginalone just mentioned her general mental state. Azula's gliding into insanity started already long before that with the betrayal of Mai + Ty Lee, it was already notable in "The Southern Raiders".

Or I haven't watched the fight in like 5 yrs. Go get a vid clip prove it.

So you are literally discussing based on your long lost memories?

Wow so butthurt. Like I said bloodlusted and an even fight. Even if Azula wasn't crazy it wouldn't have made a difference.

Iroh, Katara and even freaking Zuko himself disagree with you.

Huh I remember zuko kicking her off a boat or something.

That was Iroh... and just as Azula was literally distracted by killing Zuko, this here is what Zuko did beforehand(badly losing):

No Caption Provided

and don't even try to use Iroh as argument, as the roles were pretty much reversed happened this(and Iroh was not literally surrounded by enemies targeting him, including Toph with her seismic sense as he blindsided Azula):

No Caption Provided

You said she couldn't sleep before the fight implying that the fight took place the day after she went crazy. When someone is stressed they don't lose movement, power, or energy. Physically tired? She was getting pampered all day Lmao.

If someone is stressed they absolutely lose movement, power and energy and this here is more than obviously the look of somone in a mentally and physically terrible condition:

No Caption Provided

Its called character development. You know when zuko could actually stand up to ozai.

It made Azula significantly weaker as a fighter, regardless how you want to call it.

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#39 Posted by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Being stressed doesn't equal sleep deprivation. Like I said educate yourself. Long term stress is more harmful then short. You literally gave me a quote that proves this. Too frequent stress responses can leave the body devoid of energy.Lmao. Gaining eyebags from stress within a day doesn't drastically change ur physical state at all. Edited my last post go reread it

Temaris feat was also fighting on par with sasuke lol. Thats like saying people who can keep up with flash isn't fast.

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#40 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Being stressed doesn't equal sleep deprivation. Like I said educate yourself. Long term stress is more harmful then short. You literally gave me a quote that proves this. Too frequent stress responses can leave the body devoid of energy.Lmao. Gaining eyebags from stress within a day doesn't drastically change ur physical state at all. Edited my last post go reread it

Dude, I specifically said that being as badly as stressed as she was, she became sleep deprived and this becomes glaringly obvious. Also, I never said she had long term stress but short term simple stress doesn't leave people with massive eye bags, it doesn't caused people to hallucinate, it doesn't cause them to tire out, especially when the same person didn't used to get tired out as easily.

This is why I have been telling you that this was an EXTREME CAUSE OF STRESS. EXTREME. How many times do I have to repeat this to you? And what? Eye bags doesn't drastically change your physical state??? Not alone sure but when you mix them in with the extreme stress she was feeling, THEY SURE DO. This is emphasized by the fact that she got extremely tired after a short skirmish while zuko, who has always been weaker than her, DIDN'T.

https://preventyourpanic.com/anxiety-symptoms-tiredness

Also, for god sakes, go read up on stress. it doesn't have to be frequent stress that makes you tired, even regular stress and anxiety can do the same thing. Frequent stress is just more worse.

Temaris feat was also fighting on par with sasuke lol. That's like saying people who can keep up with flash isn't fast.

Fighting on par with Sasuke where troll?? Where did she fight on par with him? Are you high? Also, you do know that characters don't need to use their full speed all the time? That is like saying just because Tsunade fight Madara, she is near his speed.

Do you ever stop bullshitting?

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#41 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by Itachus17 (3397 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@itachus17: If you don't put these trolls in their place now, they will spread this bullshit elsewhere.

Well it seems kinda like a waste of time with someone who is literally admiting to have no clue what he/she is even talking about, but let's try it:

so bloodlust=weaken cool

Azula was insane, not bloodlusted(sane Azula is usually much closer to the battle foren definition of bloodlusted). And if you had bothered to actually read the thread, i already posted this:

This is what the official Avatar Extras have to say about that:

  1. Azula is normally a much better fighter than Zuko.
  2. But Zuko has learned to control his rage ...
  3. ... And Azula is starting to crack.

Cool so if Azula wasn't insane it would've given her an extra edge it what ur saying.

Zuko was just able to gain the upperhand due to a perfect combo of his dragon training and Azula's insanity + mental breakdown, so and just get that straight now Zuko is in fact even my favourite chacter in the whole Avatarverse but Azula is painfully obvious the better fighter if mentally stable enough.

Doesn't change her physical state.

or she couldn't react. Either way argument from ignorance.

This is about Mako and Ming Hua in context if water counters lightning, yes? Mako shot his lightning literally into the water and it traveled through the water and killed Ming, the only way to counter lightning with water is indirectly and lightning gets absolutely not blocked by water.

Ming hua had water connected from her water arms to the pond. Thus she got electrocuted when mako shot the lighting. What I'm suggesting is that if the water is not touching ur body then u can block it.

When did I argue she shoots supersonic icicles, strawman. I guess doing anything against a fire bender is stupid cause they also vaped water. The gif shows that it was more then a second. At least 1.5 seconds.

Azula's fire wave instantly vaporized the water wave as they made contact with each other.

The movement she had too do too produce the fire took more then 1 second.

Read post above pretty inconsistent water put out fire in 1 gif.

I posted that and explained why it was inconsistent, Katara can't even in her wildest dream put out fire(let alone Azula's hotter blue version) with freaking icicles regardless if Azula jobs or not. And Katara anyways barely uses icicles(so it wouldn't even be very relevent for R1), one of the few times was ironically a good example in the comics about what would actually happen(Azula casually dodging them as literal afterthought):

No Caption Provided
Why are you posting a scan of azula dodging it? I never said she couldn't.

Not sure from where the Bolin highballing suddenly comes but neither is lava unblockable nor needs anyone here come close to Bolin, also is Bolin not remotely fast enough to one shot Katara or Zuko.

How do azula/katara block lava thats coming at them.

When does zuko say she's slipping?

Right before the Agni Kai(quotes from IMDB):

Azula: Wait. You want to be Fire Lord? Fine. Let's settle this. Just you and me, brother. The showdown that was always meant to be: Agni Kai.

Prince Zuko: You're on!

Katara: What are you doing? She's playing you. She knows she can't take us both, so she's trying to separate us.

Prince Zuko: I know, but I can take her this time.

Katara: But even you admitted to your uncle that you would need help facing Azula.

Prince Zuko: There's something off about her. I can't explain it, but she's slipping, and this way, no one else has to get hurt.

Thank you jesus.

Just because azula is crazy doesn't mean she loses all ability to fight. Literally dead even fight.

Nobody said she lost all ability to fight, but Zuko himself, the series/creators and Avatar Extras all told us explicit.y that she's weaker than usually.

Because of her mental state she isn't fighting properly and zuko got a blow in. If azula wasn't mental they would still be fighting evenly, same stats.

Oh wow she was out of breath after a fight Lol.

It was in the middle of the fight and more than obviously pretty unusuall, hell Azula danced circles around Aang and partly Toph + Sokka as she had no bending and wasn't even breaking a sweat.

When she broke the mirror wasn't that the same day they fought.

Yes it was but nobody besides you even mentioned different days for that scene and the fight, theoriginalone just mentioned her general mental state. Azula's gliding into insanity started already long before that with the betrayal of Mai + Ty Lee, it was already notable in "The Southern Raiders".

She didn't have her eye bags then or a breakdown.

Or I haven't watched the fight in like 5 yrs. Go get a vid clip prove it.

So you are literally discussing based on your long lost memories?

Oh wow so I have to know all the specifics to debate a topic on here is what ur saying.

Wow so butthurt. Like I said bloodlusted and an even fight. Even if Azula wasn't crazy it wouldn't have made a difference.

Iroh, Katara and even freaking Zuko himself disagree with you.

The difference it would've made is abysmal. Her fighting style would change thats it

Huh I remember zuko kicking her off a boat or something.

That was Iroh... and just as Azula was literally distracted by killing Zuko, this here is what Zuko did beforehand(badly losing):

No Caption Provided

You say it was Iroh but you don't show him kicking azula off. Regardless I really don't care

and don't even try to use Iroh as argument, as the roles were pretty much reversed happened this(and Iroh was not literally surrounded by enemies targeting him, including Toph with her seismic sense as he blindsided Azula):

No Caption Provided

You said she couldn't sleep before the fight implying that the fight took place the day after she went crazy. When someone is stressed they don't lose movement, power, or energy. Physically tired? She was getting pampered all day Lmao.

If someone is stressed they absolutely lose movement, power and energy and this here is more than obviously the look of somone in a mentally and physically terrible condition:

No Caption Provided
Not necessarily true at all. There is a change in mental state but not so much physical. It happened on the same day so its literally just recent stress. Even if there was physical change it would be close to nonexistent

It made Azula significantly weaker as a fighter, regardless how you want to call it.

Changed her fighting style but not her general physical stats. Regardless how you want to call it.

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#44 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Oh so it did happen on the same day. So now you concede she was ever sleep deprived and you change ur argument to she got the eye bags from stress. I agree she did get the eye brags from stress. "Frequent" We see her getting stressed once before the fight which happens on the same day. Are you saying that one instance of stress caused such a enormous impact on the fight if it didn't happen she would've stomped on zuko ? Well you can't prove this at all lol. All you have are assumptions that the eyebags nerfed her physical state. Even if it did it isn't a drastic change at all , I could be super stressed and still do my average of 10 pull-ups, go run a mile, etc.

Sigh.... You are still bullshitting aren't you? You don't seem to be getting what people are trying to tell you. I am not saying Azula being extremely stressed cause he to just shut down. I am saying that stress and anxiety caused her to tire out much more quickly than before. This is seem with many real life cases when powerlifters, who can lift 200 kg, struggle with 150 Kg when stressed.

Also, while being stressed, she wasn't thinking proely and thus, not fighting to the best of her ability. Azula is a genius, always has been. But in this fight, she was recklessly charging and wasting energy. My point has always been that if she was clam, disciplined and controlled Azula, shew would have beaten Zuko conforatale. That is why, even before they fought, Iroh tells Zuko that he can't beat her alone and that is why Katara was there to back him up.

DON'T IGNORE CONTEXT.

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#45 Posted by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: You are saying Azula was sleep deprived which made her weak. You can't prove she was ever sleep deprived. Just the eyes bags which came from her stress. Nope recent stress doesn't nerf your physical stats at all, literally what I'm trying to say. Her thinking properly wouldn't have made a difference azula would be fighting in control but so would zuko. Zuko was once super hot headed and always angry but in the last fight he was "calm and controlled" Character development. It would be a close fight either way, basically equal.

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#46 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: You are saying Azula was sleep deprived which made her weak. You can't prove she was ever sleep deprived. Just the eyes bags which came from her stress. Nope recent stress doesn't nerf your physical stats at all, literally what I'm trying to say. Her thinking properly wouldn't have made a difference azula would be fighting in control but so would zuko. Zuko was once super hot headed and always angry but in the last fight he was "calm and controlled" Character development. It would be a close fight either way, basically equal.

Sigh.... She was stressed, so stressed that got eye bags under her eyes. That happens when people need sleep. Thus = sleep deprived.

Stress this bad does nerf your physicals stats, you get fatigued and thus, move slower. It also affects your stamina as you get tired much quicker.

Wrong again. You seem to forget that Azula was always a better fighter and strategist than Zuko. She was also faster and more skilled with her fire. Zuko even called her a prodigy while he was not. She was so good that she is the only one known to be able to produce blue flames which are much more intense than the red, orange, and yellow flames normally used by firebenders.

Just because Zuko learned to control his anger doesn't mean his physicals stats went up. You are confusing things here. Azula was superior to him is everything so no, NOT A CLOSE FIGHT.

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#47 Posted by Itachus17 (3397 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilcabbage:

Cool so if Azula wasn't insane it would've given her an extra edge it what ur saying.

If Azula wouldn't have been insane would have Zuko clearly lost is what i'm saying.

Doesn't change her physical state.

Whut? Massive mental stress has significant influence on the physical state.

Ming hua had water connected from her water arms to the pond. Thus she got electrocuted when mako shot the lighting.

Meaning water obviously can't actually block lightning.

What I'm suggesting is that if the water is not touching ur body then u can block it.

No, you can at best change it's course and it restricts waterbenders a lot to avoid connected techniques.

The movement she had too do too produce the fire took more then 1 second.

Icicles are obviously made out of ice and would already melt before even reaching the fire, Azula don't remotely need to use that technique just for icicles.

Why are you posting a scan of azula dodging it? I never said she couldn't.

So why are you mentioned that pretty useless technique then?

How do azula/katara block lava thats coming at them.

With a watershield and Zuko with the same shield he used against CM.

Thank you jesus.

Hmmm.

Because of her mental state she isn't fighting properly and zuko got a blow in. If azula wasn't mental they would still be fighting evenly, same stats.

That makes no sense at all and Azula has significantly better physical speed and agility feats, also would she fight much better and actually use all her advantages properly.

She didn't have her eye bags then or a breakdown.

So what? The effects still started earlier, they were just weaker.

Oh wow so I have to know all the specifics to debate a topic on here is what ur saying.

If you want to make a good argument should you indeed know all crucial details.

The difference it would've made is abysmal. Her fighting style would change thats it

If her fighting style would change that's it somehow means to you she would be significantly better and kick Zuko's ass sure, otherwise not so much.

You say it was Iroh but you don't show him kicking azula off. Regardless I really don't care

Cause what Zuko and Azula did is way more important here, oh and you should care about your own arguments.

Not necessarily true at all. There is a change in mental state but not so much physical. It happened on the same day so its literally just recent stress. Even if there was physical change it would be close to nonexistent

Every doctor and psychologist who ever reads that will facepalm hard...

Changed her fighting style but not her general physical stats. Regardless how you want to call it.

Nonsense is how i call it, nobody would ever send a fighter in such a condition into a ring except he/she wants that fighter to lose badly.

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#48 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilcabbage: And for god sakes, stop talking about the ship fight, Azula totally outclassed Zuko there, she didn't even use a fire style move to beat him. She literally used hand to hand while he was using fire style. And no, Zuko didn't kick her off the boat, Iroh did. Zuko was on the ground like a wuss.

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#49 Posted by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Did you know stress also creates eye bags not just sleep deprivation. We're at a disagreement where I think recent stress doesn't nerf physical stats whilst you do. This is opinion based on how much of her phyisque it effected or not because we're not shown how much just her mental state. You could say she was superior in her fighting style but thats just about it. They were on equal speed and her fire was easily canceled out. Did you know that bloodlust enhances one's stats as well

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#50 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Did you know stress also creates eye bags not just sleep deprivation. We're at a disagreement where I think recent stress doesn't nerf physical stats whilst you do. This is opinion based on how much of her phyisque it effected or not because we're not shown how much just her mental state. You could say she was superior in her fighting style but thats just about it. They were on equal speed and her fire was easily canceled out. Did you know that bloodlust enhances one's stats as well

I know that but because of the stress, tiredness and fatigue, you becomes sleep deprived. I am not repeating this again.

Look, recent stress doesn't cause that much damage yes but stress this severe, where you are seeing hallucinations does. You have to look at the intensity of the stress as well.

And no, she was surprised in skill, fighting style, speed and agility. There speed was never the same, she was faster and more agile. Bloodlust does enhance stats to a degree but that is not good when you are severely stressed and fatigued. Not to mention, Azula, bloodlusted in a calm state, is much more scary than in a mental state.