Zoro vs Raid suit sanji

Bloodlust on

Take place in konoha

Current versions

No prep

No knoweldge

Who wins ?

Feats for the raid suit? Because normally Zoro would easily win this.

@ezrael: The selling point is that it makes him invisible. When combined with Sanji's already impressive speed, Zoro will have to run for his money. It should also be noted that the raid suit makes him even faster, and gives him the ability of levitation.

Sanji needs more feats as Soba Man

@felgrim31: It's not bait at all

Leaning towards Sanji but lets see how his fight with this Ancient Zoan concludes.

Users should take into account that the bloodlust clause means neither can use CoO.

Where was this stated? I recall Katakuri being unable to see the future whilst not having a stable state of mind but I don't remember anything about being unable to use basic CoO while unfocused.

@limitlesssigil: In every case of CoO of being used, said user has always been calm and Katakuri told Luffy “As long as I’m calm, you know I’m invincible, right?” Referring to his CoO to which Luffy expresses he’ll slip up again.

@socajunkie said:

@limitlesssigil:

‘I don’t remember’

Lucky for you I do:

Vs Eneru- he was calm

Vs Marigold and Sandersonia- they were calm

Luffy vs Mihawk at Marineford- Mihawk states he’s “Unusually calm.” After Luffy had a vision of Mihawk cutting his arms off had he actually decided against burying his hands in the ice

Sanji dodging Katakuri’s jelly bean- he was kneeling under Pudding and was completely relaxed

‘Yeah, I thought he was referring to his future sight not CoO in general.’

His future sight is an advanced version of CoO and Hancock’s sisters have basic CoO.

@socajunkie said:

Calm is a natural state of mind though lol, can you show me a scan where it's stated that to use basic CoO being calm is required?

Hmm... with his invisibility, speed advantage, and superior CoO sanji should be kicking zoro around the whole fight... but I feel like zoro can tank a lot of them, meanwhile one clean sword slash I think at the current moment would severely handicap sanji. It's kind of hard to judge. both are lacking in feats of multiple important stats to accurately gauge who would win. Like how much is necessary to take zoro down. He hasn't been hurt too much post ts

@limitlesssigil: ...here’s a challenge:

Go and find a scan of a One Piece character not being calm whilst using CoO and I’ll quit the site forever.

@socajunkie: lol as I said, being calm is a natural state of mind.

Regardless, it doesn't change the outcome of this thread so it doesn't matter.

Still Zoro.

Sanji is being given more credit than he's earned

@enemybird: ? He has better speed and CoO feats than zoro. By a relatively significant margin

Whats your point?

@enemybird: I believe he is trying to say Sanji wins lol

just because he is faster? being faster than someone and fast enough to blitz someone are two different things. Kaku was faster than zoro.

@enemybird: no. Just that's it's not a clean cut "Zoro wins". And that Sanji isn't being given more credit than deserved. There's not even a single response in this thread that mentions Sanji winning outright. And sanji isn't just faster than zoro... he has better precog and can turn invisible. Zoro would have a rough time tagging Sanji at all... and sanji should be able to tag him all day. It just depends on if he has the attack potency to put him down before zoro gets a lucky shot in to completely turn the tides

If it turns out that sanji can hide his presence just like some fodder and other characters have done and were completely undetected by coO ,in addition to his invincibility, flight speed,superior mobility and coO...zoro won't be able to even tag sanji in the slightest it would be almost near impossible,sanji was able to leap way over a city block in his raid suit without using skywalk ...I'm leaning towards sanji

hmmm I wonder if the Purple tiger ever....never mind.

I haven't read the most recent chapter. Saving my reply until then.

@enemybird:

;) nice try

Fujitora is a special case where he exclusively relies on his CoO because he’s blind. It is trained to a higher degree than usual where it is constantly active because it has to be: the 360 awareness for miles in every direction’s aura vividness is dependent on how much he chooses to focus.

This is a case where CoO is elevated to a higher level than normal not dissimilar to Eneru’s DF amping his Mantra.

@socajunkie: wasn't sanji in distress when pudding was kneeling? Wasnt he concerned about her?

@soothing_sounds: IIRC he’d come to terms and was totally relaxed with Pudding betraying him prior to having a precognitive vision of Katakuri flicking the jelly bean.

Before I reply. I just want to make sure you have the opinion that Sanji wins. I dont want make this huge case for Zoro just for you to say that you never said Sanji wins.

Trunks solos!

@enemybird: well... you're correct in giving due pause. I don't think sanji wins. I don't think's there's enough evidence on either side to make a case for one or the other winning or losing.. I definitely don't think zoro wins either. My only point being that zoro doesn't have the showings to really tag a guy like sanji consistently(or much at all, if ever unless by a lucky shot), nor the durability feats for us to know how much it would take for sanji to ko zoro. I do think sanji has a clear cut showing of destructive capability, and durability showcasing enough to know zoro would cripple/potentially 1 shot sanji.

The only point you would have to prove is he has a high chance of tagging sanji and I'll concede my argument.

I dont really see a difference between saying Zoro wins vs saying Zoro is more likely to win. If I had to choose between the two....looking at both of their showings specifically in the new world, I don't see how you would say Sanji has a better chance of winning than Zoro. There is a lot of mystery around the full potential of the raid suit but as of this moment its "still Zoro."

1. Sanji hasn't even mastered the raid suit yet. I don't see how you can paint a picture of Sanji being able to stay invisible and strategically avoid all of Zoro's attacks when in his first showing, he was sent flying by page one. If Sanji was that untouchable he wouldn't have gotten thrashed in his first showing.

2. The burden of proof is really on Sanji. A blood lusted Zoro would by far be the toughest opponent Sanji has ever faced in all categories. Sanji has legitimately struggled to defeat everyone in the new world except bobbin and sheapshead. The fact that you think he has to stay invisible to have a chance speaks to his disadvantage.

3. Because Zoro is bloodlusted. he will be able to spam large perhaps even mountain level slashes if he even hears anything coming his way. If Sanji uses diable jambe, he will become visible. Without it, I doubt Zoro has anything to worry about as he was hardly able to KO base Luffy.

Gallery

Do I really need to keep going?

@enemybird: Ehhhh... Let's see

1) sanji quite literally stood still and took page one's hit head on. It's obvious he was trying to test the suit as he even comments on its sturdiness. It's quite clear he isn't putting anything close to his all.

2) "A blood lusted Zoro would by far be the toughest opponent Sanji has ever faced in all categories."

Doflamingo says hi. And if you honestly think zoro (at this point in the story) is significantly above the likes of daifuku, oven and (yes) vergo, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

The closest sanji has gotten to a real fight was against doffy (who would butcher zoro, let's be honest) and Judge (in which sanji clearly wasn't going all out and judge cheated to "win").

3) "mountain sized slashes" are still slashes and can be dodged.

And I've got to say, this poor argument of sanji struggling to KO base luffy is getting really old. By your logic, I guess zoro wouldn't have much to worry about from katakuri.

Fact; in terms of durability and resilience,only g4 offers luffy a significant (if any) boost.

Not to mention it was strongly implied that sanji held back at first as Iirc even luffy stated that sanji kept hitting harder and harder.

Alright Enemybird has convinced me.

The main issue is that and I’m going to be blunt here: Sanji’s CoA is so weak that he struggled to put down base Luffy.

As Overwarrior has correctly stated: CoA=durability in Post time-skip and Zoro’s shown the most potent CoA by cutting Pica’s JBCoA.

Film Gold which I consider canon since no feat there was inconsistent with the manga- had Zoro easily block Dice’s blade with his JBCoA arms.

So long story short: BRDT still turns this Oedipus boy into chopped meat.

1. Was page one putting anything significant into that attack? We will have to wait and see. Sanji wasnt hurt but Zoro has better feats anyway. I also wouldn't go so far as to say that Sanji was testing the suit. its clear he isnt used to it.

2. I was kinda referring to people that Sanji had a chance at defeating. Doflmaingo isn't one of them clearly.

3. I doesn't matter how you personally feel. Its true. whats worst is that its consistent with his other showings so far.

also luffy ran from Kuri when he ran out of haki. in other words its was necessary to have haki to defend against his attacks.

@enemybird:

1) page one transformed into his hybrid mode (The strongest zoan form) and proceeded to cook his arm in COA hardening. That's seems like he was pretty serious.

2) still doesn't change the fact that zoro hasn't shown anything that would (in your words) put him far above a younko executive. The only younko executive he's ever faced was hawkins and he needed stitches after.

3) I'm guessing you need to re read the luffy vs katakuri fight. Luffy ran away at first but when he came back to resume the fight spent hours getting smacked around by katakuri but refused to go down.

And as I pointed out, sanji was holding back against luffy as per luffy's statement, he could definitely have hit harder.

Sanji has a legit shot with the raid suit.

@kroczilla said:

As I said, we will have to wait and see if that attack was the extent of Page one's strength. You may think it is but I think he has way more to show.I am sure Sanji does too but lets not pretend like he didn't straight up ragdoll Sanji in the process.

You are oversimplifying the fight between Zoro and hawkins. How many LIVES did Hawkins lose in that short period? 2 or 3? I lost count...

Luffy was using haki to defend against Katakuri which is why he ran from him when it ran out. He had to do the same against Mingo. I didnt realize there was confusion around this fact. When did Luffy say Sanji was holding back? I remember Luffy Saying that Sanji didnt mean what he said about being a low class pirate but I dont remember him saying Sanji was holding back. Do you have a scan of this?

@enemybird: sorry for the wait. wanted to let the latest chapter drop before responding. seems sanji made short work of page one so let's move on from there

1) Iirc, Hawkins lost about two lives before he decided to get a bit more serious (though he didn't exactly want to fight as he stated he couldn't take on zoro and luffy at once).

2) luffy ran away from katakuri once then came back and fought katakuri from that point on till the end (which was mostly him getting smacked around by katakuri for will over a dozen chapters)

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/878/19

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/880/16

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/880/17

katakuri's block mochi was shown to be well beyond what luffy's COA could defend against.

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/883/13

Thus even if luffy used haki to defend against katakuri (which he did in some instances) it was far from effective.

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/891/9

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/891/8

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/891/7

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/891/5

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/892/16

I would recommend reading the full chapters as luffy was shown to be pretty damaged even before the above attacks occurred (without any haki defense by luffy)

Luffy did finally get koed AFTER exhaustion from multiple g4 usage including snakeman + injuries from katakuri which included getting impaled through the guts.

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/896/9

That's the thing. Luffy is an extremely resilient fighter. Just about every single one of his major battles since he entered the grandline have highlighted that fact.

As for proof of sanji holding back, luffy stated that sanji kept hitting harder implying that sanji at the very least only went all out for the final kick that koed luffy.

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/844/17

And clearly that final kick did some damage as luffy briefly lost the ability to talk coherently

https://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/845/3

Okay....I hate threads like these. Zoro still stomps, Sanji still has no new feats of note in that raid suit. Stop it.

@deathhero61: implying zoro could beat sanji without the suit ??

Sanji wins.

@kroczilla: Your arguments are not convincing and the scans you posted hardly support your head canon. I I don't really feel like explaining why again these just don't hold up. Lastly, stop asking me to re-read one piece when clearly, you are the one who cant seem to separate fact from your own bias.

@enemybird:

A) yep. Luffy definitely didn't get pummeled for hours by katakuri. I mean, sure the pages I posted clearly shows luffy in base being smashed around by block mochi and being impaled but yeah, I'm the one with the head canon ?

B) it seems to be a pattern among zorostans. Y'all get spanked and then scream "hurr durrr HeAd CaNoN"

I would ask you to point out the "head canon" but my experience tell me I would be wasting my time.

I didn't ask you to reread the manga. I asked you to reread the the fight btwn katakuri and luffy cause you seem to have a problem remembering the fight. Don't understand why you got so aggressive. Even I need to refresh my memory from time to time. ?

I mean....he can. Current Sanji is basically featless in comparison. I won't lie based off feats, Sanji is more mobile and potentially faster, but not by much, Zoro still has a massive range advantage with his swords and shockwaves, and is arguably the more skilled combatant. I mean they gave Sanji the raid suit for a legit reason. He's been under powered since the timeskip started.

@deathhero61:

1) >sent blown wadatsumi flying

>with g3 luffy, stopped an attack from big mom

>stalemate vergo with a weakened body

>Clashed evenly with daifuku

Featless?

2) it not just sanji's speed and mobility. There's also his COO haki which is undoubtedly better. As for range, sanji can currently fire off fiery diable jambe shots.

Genuinely curious about how we can rate their skill. They both have completely different fighting styles.

Are we going by number of monsters in their respective arsenals or actual feats of skill each has shown?

Would like an answer to this. Thanks.

3) the aforementioned feats really don't support the notion that sanji has been "underpowered". And about the rad suit, sanji so far seems more interested in using its invisibility to perv (which has been his dream since pretimeskip) than utilizing it in combat. I think it's best to wait till his fight with queen before coming to a definite conclusion though.

It should be noted that with the suit, sanji made short work of a xter (without so much as a single scratch) who based on his ranking and law's assessment is easily on par with a supernova. I can understand the idea of zoro beating regular sanji but I honestly do not see how zoro can beat him with it.

As of right now, sanji takes it. Even if zoro got a lucky shot it won't KO sanji. He would definitely need to hit sanji with more than 1 hit and thanks to the durability buff from the raid suit, sanji will definently be able tank more sword hits. Speed, mobility, reaction speed and invisibility will help sanji and if he is able to hide his presence, zoro would be having a sufferable time trying to hit sanji. We Don't even know if sanji can use hells memories with the raid suit so as of right now from the showings that we have from both sides, sanji wins.

As of right now still Zoro, since he's really durable. Sanji could probably blitz him a lot of times but Zoro is just gonna eventually get him and slash him a few times. Sanji is not near as durable as Zoro, but with raid suit should now have what it takes to dodge most of his attacks.
But as far as I'm concerned, he's not there with Raid suit yet. Only because the difference in durability, not power, speed, or destructive force. Sanji easily surpasses Zoro with the following units. Although if Zoro lets his guard down for even a little and Sanji uses a strong move like Flambage shot or Spectre(he's faster so the second Zoro lets down his guard its over) then Zoro is probably going to lose, as we must know an no-named kick still almost burned Jabra's internal organs after he turned in iron body.
Either way, if Zoro doesn't use his armanent hardening for his blades so that he is able to block the Spectre, and at least a few attacks like Flambage shot hits his vital spot, well it will be just like the fight with Killer after Killer stabbed him.

Still Zoro

Current sanji > current zoro by feats

O.o

What are Raid Sanji's feats?