Zoro vs. Nnoitra

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icky_yucky_ewy

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FaradaySloth

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#153  Edited By FaradaySloth

Gin's Bankai is faster than Mach 500 and it's blatantly shown & stated in the manga & databooks, Buto Renjin in case any of you people forgot.

Gin's Bankai has never been shown to blitz anyone in the series, please show me one actual showing of it blitzing a person and not some bullshit surprise attack like Hiyori or Aizen.

Gin's best feat is cutting a part of KKT in half, and he needed a surprise attack to use his hax on Aizen, which failed. Aizen one-shotted him as usual in the same manner he did with the other captains.

Gin isn't a top tier, but hey show me any feats, please I dare you.

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FaradaySloth

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>"Hurr durr Ichigo can't be Mach 500 in SS Arc that's insane!!!!"

>Same people who think Ichigo being as fast as Onimitsukido sounds more lopical.

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King789

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@faradaysloth: Gin is high tier.

Base Aizen tier and he is superior to the espadas imo.

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FaradaySloth

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@king789 said:

@faradaysloth: Gin is high tier.

Base Aizen tier and he is superior to the espadas imo.

He has zero feats to suggest he's above the Espada.

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King789

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@faradaysloth: Hmm he is above Tousen who is superior to the Espada tho.

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FaradaySloth

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#158  Edited By FaradaySloth

@king789 said:

@faradaysloth: Hmm he is above Tousen who is superior to the Espada tho.

Tosen also has nothing to suggest he's above the top Espada.

And Tosen has better feats than Gin anyway.

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@faradaysloth: Also Aizen said that Gin possesses the power to kill him but he was just curious on how he was gonna do so.

So that should put him on Base Aizen tier otherwise why would he say that?

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@faradaysloth: Statements and lore support Tosen being support Tosen being superior to the Espadas.

Such as?

Beating Komamura?

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FaradaySloth

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@king789 said:

@faradaysloth: Also Aizen said that Gin possesses the power to kill him but he was just curious on how he was gonna do so.

So that should put him on Base Aizen tier otherwise why would he say that?

Gin possesses the power to kill him due to hax not stats. And even then Gin failed miserably, Aizen allowing Gin to complete his objective is not a feat for Gin obviously.

Putting Gin on base Aizen tier would also mean he's on Yamamoto tier which is big LOL. Gin fought for some time with Ichigo without actually beating him, meanwhile Aizen statued and could've one-shotted Ichigo. Gin gets smacked by any Aizen form 1v1.

@king789 said:

@faradaysloth: Statements and lore support Tosen being support Tosen being superior to the Espadas.

Such as?

Beating Komamura?

Komamura isn't apart of the strongest captains. Komamura would lose to folks like Shunsui, Kenny, & Byakuya, all of which had difficulty with their respective Espada opponent.

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@faradaysloth: I wasn't arguing stats I mean't his hax can people on Base Aizen's tier and considering all of the espada are dogshit to Aizen they get fucked.

Also Aizen surviving the Poison was due to his regeneration at that moment and if he did not have it he would have died.

Also you couldn't have been any more wrong Base Aizen is not on Yamamato's tier.

Not even close.

Yeah but Gin was taking it easy on Ichigo I mean he went from getting scratched by Bankai Ichigo using Getsuga to no selling his Hollowifed Bankai Getsuga.

This is good cause Ichigo in a weaker state managed to injure Yammy who is superior to the other espada and has the second strongest hierro.

Komamura is weaker than Shunsui due to speed and hax not other stats.

As for Kenny and Byakuya well nothing is wrong with being weaker than them since they were superior to Yammy in his 1st state who is superior to the espada anyways so no biggie.

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@faradaysloth: Obviously Yamamoto/Aizen>Gin but how do you rate him compared to the Espada?

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Yamamato is above Aizen. Gin isn't close to being Aizen tier, but he certainly should be within top Espada tier.

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FaradaySloth

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@king789:

I wasn't arguing stats I mean't his hax can people on Base Aizen's tier and considering all of the espada are dogshit to Aizen they get fucked.

His hax doesn't matter, we're talking if he's relevant to the stats in Bleach and he isn't. His feats are inferior to a few Espada, which means it isn't a shock that Ichigo (who reacted to both Buto & Buto Renjin) was Mach 500 & above before their fight.

Also Aizen surviving the Poison was due to his regeneration at that moment and if he did not have it he would have died.

This is a dumb take. Yes he resisted disintegration with regeneration, does not change the fact Gin absolutely failed at his objective.

Also you couldn't have been any more wrong Base Aizen is not on Yamamato's tier.

Not even close.

It is true that Aizen conceded that Yamamoto would beat him in a 1v1 fight, but Aizen still withstood attacks from Yamamoto (also bitchslapping the whole Gotei)

Yeah but Gin was taking it easy on Ichigo

Nope.

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Gin's pathetic.

I mean he went from getting scratched by Bankai Ichigo using Getsuga to no selling his Hollowifed Bankai Getsuga.

Gin never took a Hollowfied Getsuga, which reminds me, yeah he got injured from a Bankai Ichigo's Getsuga but Ulquiorra (Espada #4) no-sells a Hollowfied Getsuga

This is good cause Ichigo in a weaker state managed to injure Yammy who is superior to the other espada and has the second strongest hierro.

Yammy is a dope and a fraud who lost to two folks who had harder times with characters supposedly "weaker" than Yammy.

Komamura is weaker than Shunsui due to speed and hax not other stats.

And durability. And endurance. And skill. And nearly everything else that doesn't involve raw strength.

As for Kenny and Byakuya well nothing is wrong with being weaker than them since they were superior to Yammy in his 1st state who is superior to the espada anyways so no biggie.

They nearly died to Espada #5 and #7 LMFAO.

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FaradaySloth

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@faradaysloth: Obviously Yamamoto/Aizen>Gin but how do you rate him compared to the Espada?

Honestly, I don't even see Buto injuring Nnoitra that bad, hell at first Nnoitra could probably no-sell it. Gin should beat Grimmjow after a good fight and would beat Nnoitra with his actual ability, but Espada 1-4 are clearly above Gin. Gin hasn't done anything note-worthy in the series except not losing to a fatigued, weakened Ichigo. Yet everyone here thinks his Bankai speed is somehow at the top of Bleach when it hasn't blitzed one person once.

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@faradaysloth: Gin did no sell Hollowified Bankai Ichigo's getsuga only in the anime though so you are right.

I will address the rest of your stuff later my battery is running low.

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Sorry Zoro, but... Nnoitra easy wins.

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@faradaysloth: Okay but the Espada have no counter to his Hax.

Yeah he failed because of his regeneration how is that an anti feat?

He only took a Kido from a Base Yamamato who was severely injured by his Shikai detonating and could not even move and even then Aizen was fucked up badly.

Also he beat Captains that were not in the best conditions:

Shunsui got hit by Stark's Cero.

Komamura had his bones and some of his organs crushed.

Soifon was severely drained from using her Bankai.

Toshiro was exhausted from his fight with Hallibel.

Also it was said by Gin that Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu is superior to everyone else so it was mostly hax.

As for the Visoreds:

Rose and Love got injured by Stark.

The others he never fought.

Aizen also only beat Shinji cause his ability directly counters Shinji I think he even said this.

Hmm okay I admitted I was wrong.

Moot point Gin fought a stronger Ichigo.

Please Byakuya was superior to Zommari that nibba was cheating using Rukia as bait and still got clapped badly.

As for Kenny he grows stronger the more he fights as stated by Unohana.

Durability?

Komamura took like 4 slashes from Aizen before going down and in the databook it is said he is the most durable captain and Kenpachi is the strongest.

Yeah Byakuya was toying with Zommari and Kenpachi just likes to enjoy himself and grew stronger when he fought Yammy.

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@faradaysloth: Also idk if this was shown in the manga Byakuya only almost died because of Zommari's had he had to cut his leg and arm to stop it from spreading.

As soon as he figured out his ability in that injured state he used a weak Bankai Attack(Atleast not on the Same level as the one he used on Yammy) to severely damage Zommari(he only survived due to his hierro and higher rank does not mean stronger hierro as shown with Nnoirita ).

Then after that Base Byakuya just blitzed and oneshotted him.

So why are you making it such a big deal and acting like Zommari was actually even a threat to Byakuya in sheer power?

Byakuya even made it clear that the gap in their power is Large and that is clearly shown at the end of their fight.

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@king789:

Okay but the Espada have no counter to his Hax.

Gin has no counter for any of the Espada hax as well so ditto.

Yeah he failed because of his regeneration how is that an anti feat?

Because it shows anyone with regeneration (like a few Espada) can survive Gin's hax.

He only took a Kido from a Base Yamamato who was severely injured by his Shikai detonating and could not even move and even then Aizen was fucked up badly.

Wrong, Aizen was completely fine after Itto Kaso and it doesn't seem to be limited by power considering all it needs is a limb sacrifice (and Yamamoto still seemed to be somewhat powerful).

Also he beat Captains that were not in the best conditions:

Shunsui got hit by Stark's Cero.

Komamura had his bones and some of his organs crushed.

Soifon was severely drained from using her Bankai.

Toshiro was exhausted from his fight with Hallibel.

Also it was said by Gin that Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu is superior to everyone else so it was mostly hax.

As for the Visoreds:

Rose and Love got injured by Stark.

The others he never fought.

Irrelevant, he fought an 8 on 1 (soon to be a total of 13 on 1) and all of them got destroyed. The odds should've been impossible but Aizen still bitchslapped most of them, saying he's not on Yamamoto tier makes zero sense because it's never shown that Yamamoto was on a tier of his own back at that point of the story.

Moot point Gin fought a stronger Ichigo.

No he didn't, Tensa Zangetsu says he was weakened mentally after the Ulquiorra fight.

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Gin besting a weakened Ichigo does not mean he's special.

Please Byakuya was superior to Zommari that nibba was cheating using Rukia as bait and still got clapped badly.

Byakuya lost the movements in a couple of his limbs, he just had the better counter.

As for Kenny he grows stronger the more he fights as stated by Unohana.

Ok...? Kenny power purposely fluctuates, he fights at a level where his opponents are on usually.

Durability?

Huh? This is why you need to quote, I have no idea what you're talking about here.

Komamura took like 4 slashes from Aizen before going down and in the databook it is said he is the most durable captain and Kenpachi is the strongest.

Shunsui took several island level shots and kept fighting, Komamura was having trouble with Tosen, this could be an incident where something in the databook did not hold up as it did in the manga.

So why are you making it such a big deal and acting like Zommari was actually even a threat to Byakuya in sheer power?

Because he was? They were both on equal terms at first, but when they release their zanpauktos Byakuya had the perfect counter to Zommari's powers, Byakuya killing Zommari after was more pity since Zommari was going insane at that point.

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icky_yucky_ewy

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And still nobody has shown any scans of Gin actually saying his zanpakutō moves at Mach 500 :(((

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So then... I guess we agree that Zoro wins this. :D

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icky_yucky_ewy

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I'll continue to say yes unless I see some proof of Kenpachi being above mountain lvl when he faced off Nnoitra.

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icky_yucky_ewy

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@kajin_style: kenpachi being able to hurt Nnoitra is literally proof that he’s at least country lvl when he fought him. The gran rey cero can destroy Los Noches and Ichigo completely no-sells Grimmjow’s GRC with just his sword. Grimmjow can then tank hits from this Ichigo after he goes in resurreccion.

Nnoitra is a stronger espada than Grimmjow and has the strongest hierro of them all. Therefore kenpachi as well as Nnoitra are clearly at least country lvl in that fight.

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@faradaysloth: Such as?

Do you mind elaborating?

None of the espadas have shown regeneration on par with Aizen so no they still get fucked.

Show me any of the regenerative espadas regenerating from cellular disintegration?

No Yamamato was still fucked up and Aizen was not completely okay.

Also no Aizen is still not on Yama's tier.

No buddy it is very relevant cause you are making him seem like a hotshot while ignoring that he used an overpowered Hax and most of the captains were not in a perfect condition.

Ichigo lacked the will to hollowify but that does not mean he was weaker than when he fought Ulqoiurra.

Show me anything that suggests such.

Nah Byakuya clapped Zommari was no actual threat besides his hax.

Yeah so his power was adjusted to match Yammy at the time not that hard to understand.

I am talking about Shunsui and Komamura.

Shots?

Stark only hit him once with Cero so stop exaggerating and Komamura took like 4 or more slashes from Aizen whereas Shunsui was fucked up by 1 so he is clearly not more durable or superior in endurance like you are asserting.

No Byakuya was just plain superior in power but was only struggling due to his weird hax I explained above.

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FaradaySloth

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@king789:

Such as?

Barragan, Zommari, & Szayel. He probably couldn't pierce NNoitra as well.

Do you mind elaborating?

Yes I do mind, I shouldn't have the explain by regeneration can counter disintegration.

None of the espadas have shown regeneration on par with Aizen so no they still get fucked.

Aizen resisted cellular disintegration, which means really any actual regeneration can counter it, since that is regeneration, you're regenerating limbs/tissues/muscles/skin and that requires cells.

No Yamamato was still fucked up and Aizen was not completely okay.

There is no scan from any media that shows Aizen with any other injury apart from bruises. No broken bones, no torn muscles, etc. just bruises. He was okay.

Also no Aizen is still not on Yama's tier.

Prove it.

No buddy it is very relevant cause you are making him seem like a hotshot while ignoring that he used an overpowered Hax and most of the captains were not in a perfect condition.

The Captains were in good enough condition to continue to fight in a well-manner, so once again, what you sid was irrelevant.

Ichigo lacked the will to hollowify but that does not mean he was weaker than when he fought Ulqoiurra.

Show me anything that suggests such.

Tensa Zangetsu says that Ichigo prevented himself from his full potential after the Ulquiorra fight, read the manga.

Nah Byakuya clapped Zommari was no actual threat besides his hax.

Keep spewing headcanon

Yeah so his power was adjusted to match Yammy at the time not that hard to understand.

Or how about we just go with the conclusion that Yammy's rank means nothing, considering Nnoitra's attacks did way more damage and Kenny's durability does not magically become better with every fight.

Shots?

Lille Barro fight.

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@faradaysloth: @faradaysloth: He pierced Aizen so of course he can pierce the espada.

Okay.

Cells can also refer to organs and none of the espadas have been shown to regenerate disintegration of their organs.

Alright sure buddy.

Maybe cause Shikai Yama has transcendent Reaitsu nothing like that has been said about Aizen in his Base state.

Yeah but they were still not in real perfect condition and as for Komamura he just has great endurance which is why he could still fight.

I don't know why you overinflate the feat and he used Kyoka Suigetsu(Overpowered Hax).

His full potential could referring to Vasto Lorde state or anything like that not that he was weaker than when he fought Ulqoiurra you have failed to provide evidence.

Headcannon?

Prove it is just headcannon.

Yeah Nnoirita fought a stronger Kenpachi and based on what Unohana said and what the databooks say about Yammy's strength my explanation is more plausible yours has no basis.

He was dodging for the most part also I have seen that Fight Lille only hit him once with X-Axis and he got badly injured.

So what shots are you talking about exactly?

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@faradaysloth: Actually I mean't Nnoirita fought a weaker Kenpachi.

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@kajin_style: kenpachi being able to hurt Nnoitra is literally proof that he’s at least country lvl when he fought him. The gran rey cero can destroy Los Noches and Ichigo completely no-sells Grimmjow’s GRC with just his sword. Grimmjow can then tank hits from this Ichigo after he goes in resurreccion.

Nnoitra is a stronger espada than Grimmjow and has the strongest hierro of them all. Therefore kenpachi as well as Nnoitra are clearly at least country lvl in that fight.

This logically speaking doesn't make sense. GRC did very little damage and was so easily snuffed out that it didn't seem to even remotely live up to its own claim. Because if this is country level...

Then how is it on par with every other future country level attack we see? Not long after we see Ulquiorra Lance and that was claimed to be country level as well. Don't tell me Grimmjow's GRC is on par with Ulquiorra's Lance attack. Then there's Kenpachi smashing that meteor which was also claimed to be country level.

How many bleach country level attacks are there!? This just doesn't add up.

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FaradaySloth

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@king789:

He pierced Aizen so of course he can pierce the espada.

Nnoitra no sold hits from Kenpachi, he's not getting pierced by Buto.

Cells can also refer to organs and none of the espadas have been shown to regenerate disintegration of their organs.

That doesn't matter? Gin's Bankai is only cellular disintegration so any regeneration would counter it lol.

Maybe cause Shikai Yama has transcendent Reaitsu

Headcanon.

Yeah but they were still not in real perfect condition and as for Komamura he just has great endurance which is why he could still fight.

Your state doesn't matter (in fact it's more of an excuse) because you outnumber your opponent by eight times.

I don't know why you overinflate the feat and he used Kyoka Suigetsu(Overpowered Hax).

I don't overinflate the feat, he legitimately one-shotted all Captains while Yamamoto couldn't one-shot Shunsui & Jushiro. Ho can you say Yamamoto is one another tier than Aizen is beyond me.

His full potential could referring to Vasto Lorde state or anything like that

Well it wasn't referring to that, so too bad.

not that he was weaker than when he fought Ulqoiurra you have failed to provide evidence.

Um...no? Did you see how destructive his fight with Ulquiorra?

The right side was all when Ichigo was fighting Ulquiorra in Vizard form as well.
The right side was all when Ichigo was fighting Ulquiorra in Vizard form as well.

This was the best feat in the Ichigo vs Gin fight

Cutting a part of a city in half...lol.
Cutting a part of a city in half...lol.

The fact how Ichigo found this hard to deal with only tells me that he wasn't stronger after the Ulquiorra fight, the failing Hollow Mask is only evidence backing me up as well.

Headcannon?

Prove it is just headcannon.

Byakuya having an equal grounds fight with Zommari for the first half the fight? Like...what?

Yeah Nnoirita fought a stronger Kenpachi and based on what Unohana said and what the databooks say about Yammy's strength my explanation is more plausible yours has no basis.

...Huh? Rephrase that please.

He was dodging for the most part also I have seen that Fight Lille only hit him once with X-Axis and he got badly injured.

Yep but he was still fighting. Komamura never took that level of damage ever.

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icky_yucky_ewy

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@kajin_style: gran rey cero is country lvl. You can’t refute that.

Lanza del relampago is not country lvl. A GRC is country lvl in an espada’s base form and he was in his second resurreccion at the time of using Lanza. He also used it after cero oscuras implying that it’s more powerful than a cero already greater than a GRC.

The meteor kenpachi cut was also not country lvl. It was of comparable size to the seireitei (a country sized space) and the meteor itself was moving so fast it was belated. This would be a minimum of multi-continental.

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@faradaysloth: He is cause Aizen>>Nnoirita.

Nope no espada has regenerated disintegration of their organs(Vital atleast like heart and brain) and if they have show me then.

It was stated by Jushiro and Shunsui when they fought Yammy.

He oneshotted Captains who weren't in perfect condition and with some of them such as Shinji(it was bad matchup).

Soifon was exhausted from her Bankai.

He also used Kyoka Suigetsu and considering that he conceded that Yama scales above him it means he does not scale to Yama in raw power.

Prove it was referring to his fight with Ulqoiurra.

Lmfao more visuals does not equal superiority that is fallacious.

Also Aizen himself stated that Gin could have oneshotted Karakura town If he really wanted.

Nope?

Zommari was not really comparable to him in raw power(he thought so) which is proven by him getting wrecked by a weak asf Bankai Attack which he did not need and at the end he got blitzed by Base Byakuya.

Which further supports what Byakuya said about their powers being not comparable in the slightest.

Nnorita fought a weaker Kenpachi than the one Yammy fought which is backed up by a couple of things:

The Databook stating Yammy is superior to Nnoirita.

Yammy himself stating as such.

What Unohana said about Kenny adjusting his power level to the person he is fighting.

So my explanation is more plausible and makes the least likely Assumptions.

Yours has no basis whatsoever it is just headcannon.

Komamura never got the chance to fight Lille but if Shunsui can then he definitely can also X-Axis ignores conventional durability so it is clearly a moot point.

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What does Gin have to do with this battle?

Mach 500-1000 would be God tier in OP without movie feats and Kizaru.

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What does Gin have to do with this battle?

Mach 500-1000 would be God tier in OP without movie feats and Kizaru.

Then you clearly have a problem

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@eazy2002: No I don't.

You'll see soon just how outclassed OP can be against the upper echelon of the HST.

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@decaffeinated said:

@eazy2002: No I don't.

You'll see soon just how outclassed OP can be against the upper echelon of the HST.

Who cares about that? You just said onepiece characters are mach 500-1000 when there are several lightspeed feats, casual hypersonic feats and many massively hypersonic feats

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@eazy2002:

Hypersonic is mach 5

Massively hypersonic is like 10x that.

And there is a huge jump from that to LS which only one character is and he's the fastest in the verse. You can try and argue Luffy is LS but it's an outlier because he constantly tagged by much slower.

Zoro has no casual quad mach feats that I remember.

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@eazy2002:

Hypersonic is mach 5

Massively hypersonic is like 10x that.

And there a judge jump from that to LS which only one character is and he's the fastest in the verse. You can try and argue Luffy as LS but it's an outlier because he constantly tagged by much slower.

1. Show me scans of luffy getting tagged by "slower" speeds even after showing light speed feats.

2. Marco the Pheonix reacted to kizaru light beams.

3. Even pre time skip zoro has 2 light speed feats.

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@eazy2002: LMAO. I can already tell I have wank to debunk

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@eazy2002: LMAO. I can already tell I have wank to debunk

What I hate about nardo fans is not debunking anything but feeling like they doing something smh

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@eazy2002: I'll debunk don't worry. I guess Doffy is MFTL.

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@eazy2002: I'll debunk don't worry. I guess Doffy is MFTL.

With lowball doffy is relativistic but if we really look at it blitzing luffy(who was able to react to light beams) is low end ftl. I'd like you to explain if there is anything wrong with this analogy.