He'll want to get out of Zoom's range and blow up the planet...but that would be considered voluntary BFR by some standards. Which is why the rules here matter.
He'll want to get out of Zoom's range and blow up the planet...but that would be considered voluntary BFR by some standards. Which is why the rules here matter.
I agree with bloodmist. If a Guardian cannot touch the Anti Monitor, what are the chances Zoom can? And even if he could, AM would just extend his anti matter wall around him and just consume the whole dimension, Zoom included.
"I agree with bloodmist. If a Guardian cannot touch the Anti Monitor, what are the chances Zoom can? And even if he could, AM would just extend his anti matter wall around him and just consume the whole dimension, Zoom included."
"AM could just stand there seeing that the anti-matter that he's composed has the tendency of being quite leathal to people who touch it."
Last time I checked, Superman brought down the Antimonitor by punching him. His body itself isn't made or antimatter. Or at least not the same kinda Antimatter that he used to destroy universes, because that killed Superman level characters on contact.
The only way the Antimonitor is winning this is if he destroys the planet.
"AM could just stand there seeing that the anti-matter that he's composed has the tendency of being quite leathal to people who touch it."
Last time I checked, Superman brought down the Antimonitor by punching him. His body itself isn't made or antimatter. Or at least not the same kinda Antimatter that he used to destroy universes, because that killed Superman level characters on contact.
The only way the Antimonitor is winning this is if he destroys the planet."
"AM could just stand there seeing that the anti-matter that he's composed has the tendency of being quite leathal to people who touch it."
Last time I checked, Superman brought down the Antimonitor by punching him. His body itself isn't made or antimatter. Or at least not the same kinda Antimatter that he used to destroy universes, because that killed Superman level characters on contact.
The only way the Antimonitor is winning this is if he destroys the planet."
Yeah...superman's durability > zooms...same reason why SBP flew through him unharmed and was able to chuck him into space.
He touched one of the gaurdians in sinestro corps and burned the hell out of him. (actually i think it was that female one but either way)
"Yeah...superman's durability > zooms...same reason why SBP flew through him unharmed and was able to chuck him into space.
He touched one of the gaurdians in sinestro corps and burned the hell out of him. (actually i think it was that female one but either way)"
Oh, no doubt. But this isn't a question of durability. It's a question of if that antimatter is there or not. If the antimatter wave could reduce Ultraman to nothing instantly, Kal-L should have at least noticed it. Fact of the matter is, when Darkseid and Kal-L broke the Antimoniter open, there was no backlash of antimatter.
Fresh Prince said:
"I honestly didnt know that Zoom was powerful enough to hang with AM "
Power is a relative term. It would only take one hit from the Antimonitor and Zoom would be toast. The problem is that Zoom is so damn fast, the Antimonitor can't even see him unless Zoom slows down and lets him.
"I honestly didnt know that Zoom was powerful enough to hang with AM "
Power is a relative term. It would only take one hit from the Antimonitor and Zoom would be toast. The problem is that Zoom is so damn fast, the Antimonitor can't even see him unless Zoom slows down and lets him."
Anti monitor is a partially abstract entity, how do you know what his reaction time is?
Not this doesn't matter, his body doesn't have to be anti matter, he can still simply surround himself with an antimatter wall and then just extend it in all directions. Goodbye Earth, goodbye universe, goodbye Zoom.
"zoom wins. he has my vote.. plot twist device and it's all good. how the great falls so epically with pis. zoom wins."
You dont have to be so technical with it buddy... writers can make anyone win with PIS or plot devices... but if this was a true fight based on what the characters are capable of... the AM should win here...
"Anti monitor is a partially abstract entity, how do you know what his reaction time is?
Not this doesn't matter, his body doesn't have to be anti matter, he can still simply surround himself with an antimatter wall and then just extend it in all directions. Goodbye Earth, goodbye universe, goodbye Zoom."
How do I know what his reaction time is? Unless it's several times faster than the Flash, it doesn't even matter. He won't be able to see Zoom.
And the Antimonitor does not have the ability to create antimatter walls. He needed his devices (cannon? whatever Barry Allen destroyed) to do that. Hence why he didn't just use it on the heroes who gathered to beat him.
"Anti monitor is a partially abstract entity, how do you know what his reaction time is?
Not this doesn't matter, his body doesn't have to be anti matter, he can still simply surround himself with an antimatter wall and then just extend it in all directions. Goodbye Earth, goodbye universe, goodbye Zoom."
How do I know what his reaction time is? Unless it's several times faster than the Flash, it doesn't even matter. He won't be able to see Zoom.
And the Antimonitor does not have the ability to create antimatter walls. He needed his devices (cannon? whatever Barry Allen destroyed) to do that. Hence why he didn't just use it on the heroes who gathered to beat him."
No, he created the AM wall easily out of nothing in Sinestro war. This was only stopped by the intervention of the guardians. I don't have any scans from COIE to prove if he could do it there, but considering this is the weaker AM, I presume he could.
The more I hear about SCW Antimonitor, the more I'm convinced Geoff Johns didn't read CoIE in the first place. Maybe we need the original poster to specify which AM this is since they seem to have entirely different power levels and abilities.
During CoIE, the Antimonitor NEVER used Antimatter as a weapon in personal combat. He had a cannon that allowed him to destroy universes with it. The Flash destroyed it in Crisis on Infinite Earths #8.
No, I'll admit it was a while since I read COIE, but as I remember, the cannon was only built after the failure of his initial attack. All the universes destroyed prior to the involvement of the heroes were purely under his own power. There were no indications of tech before the cannon.
"No, I'll admit it was a while since I read COIE, but as I remember, the cannon was only built after the failure of his initial attack. All the universes destroyed prior to the involvement of the heroes were purely under his own power. There were no indications of tech before the cannon."
Actually, you're right, I'm wrong. The Antimatter cannon was only built after the Monitor used his towers to bring the earths together or whatever.
However, while there is no indication that the AM used tech, there is no indication AT ALL of how he was able to create the antimatter waves that destroyed the earths. The AM didn't appear until the very end of issue 5.
Was it only his own power that allowed him to do it? Maybe. But if it was, why did he engage Supergirl and Superman in hand to hand and allow Supergirl to hurt him so badly? Why didn't he just use Antimatter? Or how bout when he fought the Spectre? Where was his antimatter? Or when all the heroes traveled back to the dawn of time or when he battled Kal-L one on one? Where was his antimatter? He didn't use antimatter against them. This leads me to believe he is not able to create it at a whim. Perhaps there is some process he has to undergo, or some unseen tech he created. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been beaten.
It makes no sense for him to have that ability and to have simply choosen to lose.
The Man of Tomorrow said:
"AM takes this. No question. There are some serious fanboys on this sight."
You've never read a comic book with Zoom have you?
Supergirl nearly killed the Antimonitor. Negative Woman and Dr. Light damaged him badly, as did Dr Occult and Alan Scott. In the end, he was beaten by Kal-L. The only one of those character who might be able to beat Zoom is Kal-L.
Don't get me wrong, the Antimonitor is majorly powerful but he can't even hit Zoom without taking out the whole planet and he's been nearly killed by characters far weaker than Zoom. All the offense in the world doesn't mean a damn thing if you can't hit the other guy or stand up the beating he's about to give you.
To be honest, the entire COIE has some inconsistencies about Anti monitor. He was nearly defeated by supergirl, but was shown annihilating superman the panel before. He consumed universes, but a motley crew of slapped together superheroes beat him on several occasions.
But to be fair, supergirl merely destroyed his outer shell. He said she nearly destroyed him, but as we saw, he cannot really be destroyed.
As for the fight with the spectre, his anti matter wall only works if there is positive matter to be consumed, I doubt that would be useful against an omnipotent ghost while battling for the enrgies of creation. And he did nearly beat the spectre.
True, he is a bit inconsistant but there is a reason for it. He repaired his armor and made it better after that fight. I want to say there was another power up for him between those fights as well. I mean, he was barely bigger than Superman when he was beating him up but when he faced all the heroes, he was huge.
Also, Superman was weakened during his fight with the Antimonitor. Can't exactly remember what was up but earlier in the issue, I remember him getting hit by some rock monster and being really surprised that he was bleeding. It wasn't a simple matter of him beating the stuffing out of Superman and getting pantsed by Supergirl. And you're correct, she only hurt his outer shell but he still ran away from the rest of the heroes at that point. We've seen him destroyed by Kal-L without his outer shell.
And I don't know about "can't really be destroyed." Kal-L (with help, granted) put him in the ground for 20 years. He might have come back but that's still far from unbeatable. I wouldn't say he nearly beat the Spectre either, just drew against him in an arm wrestling match.
hmm, I didn't know about him making his armor better, i always assumed it was purely aesthetic. about the second upgrade, I think he merely can alter his size at will. That would explain a lot...
As for superman, i think the rock creature merely gave him a bloody nose, it didn't discernibly weaken him, but I really can't remember, i'm gonna have to get the comic and re-read it.
An there are inconsistencies in his battles. He easily removed psycho-pirate's face, which implies a reality warping power, but he didn't use it against the heroes. Why not? Or why not just consume them?
And another thing, one must remember when talking about COIE, that all the heroes back then were strong as hell. I mean they could punch holes in reality, they would probably be able to hurt a semi-abstract being,
On a side note, I've been on the vine for 14 hours straight. Time flies when you're not in college.
"I think he merely can alter his size at will. That would explain a lot..."
Yes it would.
AtPhantom said:
"As for superman, i think the rock creature merely gave him a bloody nose, it didn't discernibly weaken him"
Oh, I don't think the rock thing was what weakened him. It just showed that he was already weakened, which played a big part in the AM kicking his tail.
AtPhantom said:
"An there are inconsistencies in his battles. He easily removed psycho-pirate's face, which implies a reality warping power, but he didn't use it against the heroes. Why not?"
*scratches head* Yeeeeah, that's another weird example. Possibly a trick? I don't know. Can you think of any other reality warping examples?
AtPhantom said:
"And another thing, one must remember when talking about COIE, that all the heroes back then were strong as hell. I mean they could punch holes in reality, they would probably be able to hurt a semi-abstract being"
Well, lots of people were inconsistant as hell pre-crisis. Except New Titans. But Wolfman and Perez (the guys behind New Titans) were in charge of CoIE. Afterwards, everybody pretty much got in line.
Wait wait. I think I remember now. Didn't he erase Psycho Pirate's face while in the antimatter universe? Isn't he stronger there?
Of course, similar to the "can we destroy the earth" question, we have to ask ourselves where they're fighting in the first place as, iirc, that would change the Antimonitor's powers considerably. Reality warping is certainly a way to catch Zoom.
Oh, I don't think the rock thing was what weakened him. It just showed that he was already weakened, which played a big part in the AM kicking his tail.
Really? I thought it was just because it hit him really really hard.
*scratches head* Yeeeeah, that's another weird example. Possibly a trick? I don't know. Can you think of any other reality warping examples?
I don't know, would arm wrestling for the future of the multiverse count?
Well, lots of people were inconsistant as hell pre-crisis. Except New Titans. But Wolfman and Perez (the guys behind New Titans) were in charge of CoIE. Afterwards, everybody pretty much got in line.
"Really? I thought it was just because it hit him really really hard.
I don't know, would arm wrestling for the future of the multiverse count?
Gotta love them for that. "
Well it was just a rock monster. Let me see if I can find what was said....
Oh, poo. That was Kal-L. I'm misremembering all sorts of crap about the Crisis. X-D Lets see.
Superman: I...I can't find the others. Supergirl: Neither can I...my x-ray vision isn't working. Superman: It must be the antimatter universe. Physical laws are different here.
Stuff happens. AM shoots Supes in the back and then beats on him for a couple pages without letting Superman hit back*
Supergirl shows up and beats the armor off AM in the space of two pages (while taking damage in return from AM's hits) and in a third page "destroys his body."
So I guess Superman isn't any more weakened than Supergirl. Looks like AM just dishes out the pain better than he can take it at that point. He can kill kryptonians pretty quickly but if he lets them get some hits in, he doesn't last very long either.
On another note, yes, Wolfman and Perez are awesome. Also, the Declaration of the Free was a good send off for Kara.
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