Zommari is an odd one. Kubo at first had him written as one of the fastest characters in fiction since he was fast enough to be in 5 places at the same time but I don't think kubo quite understood that.
OT: I'm backing ace but it's completely idiotic to say that zommari hax wouldn't effect a logia when he just needs to looks at them and they aren't truly intangible like lillie anyway just reflexive intangiblity
Also observation haki has yet to show feats to counter zommari hax
You must have memory loss of Bleach if you think Ace wins.
How does Zommari hit him when he's a Logia and doesn't have anything to counter his fruit
How does Ace even hurt Zommari if he doesn't have reiatsu.
How does Ace even see Zommari?
Dude Ace has a fire fruit, congrats.
How does Zommari even if energies are equal(which it isn't)hit him when He has Observation Haki and can see what he does before doing it?
Yeah use the Energies aren't equal argument lol. Zommari reiatsu crush gg.
and scales to be in a different tier of speed than Brooke who can intercept and react to point blank Lightning casually
That's a really cool story. Not. How big are these tiers exactly? I've seen you wank One Piece DC, AP, Haki and Durability levels before, now let's see Speed.
How does Zommari tank this:
Feats to show an In-Character Ace pulling Dai Enkai.
And this was combined with Blackbeard's Fruit who is wayyyy more potent than Ace's Fruit, so feats to show Ace pulling this same exact move without Blackbeard's help?
Using the anime to make that feat more impressive lol.
It's way smaller in the manga lol.
Don't want to hear any bs when the inside of the Island looks like this
Yeah, not an island. I'm 99% sure that my county is bigger than this.
Again you have to be trolling if you think Zommari wins this....
Nah anyone who has read Bleach knows Zommari hard counters most abilities in One Piece, especially Ace.
You must have memory loss of Bleach if you think Ace wins.
How does Zommari hit him when he's a Logia and doesn't have anything to counter his fruit
How does Ace even hurt Zommari if he doesn't have reiatsu.
Stalemate then,SIKE Conquerors Haki gg since Zommari gets out stated by a large margin by Ace
How does Ace even see Zommari?
Same way Characters in One piece can see souls
Dude Ace has a fire fruit, congrats.
How does Zommari even if energies are equal(which it isn't)hit him when He has Observation Haki and can see what he does before doing it?
Yeah use the Energies aren't equal argument lol. Zommari reiatsu crush gg.
NLF by your logic Galactica can be elreiatsu crushed or even Superman
and scales to be in a different tier of speed than Brooke who can intercept and react to point blank Lightning casually
That's a really cool story. Not. How big are these tiers exactly? I've seen you wank One Piece DC, AP, Haki and Durability levels before, now let's see Speed.
???? I've just showed you a scan here it is again:
How does Zommari tank this:
Feats to show an In-Character Ace pulling Dai Enkai.
Last resort...
Zommari still isn't tanking a First fist.
And this was combined with Blackbeard's Fruit who is wayyyy more potent than Ace's Fruit, so feats to show Ace pulling this same exact move without Blackbeard's help?
Even in the scan you showed (below Ace's attack still dwarfed Mountain ranges by its lonesome.
Using the anime to make that feat more impressive lol.
Says the one who uses Ichigo smacking away Aizen's Hado when it didn't even completely form in the manga.
It's way smaller in the manga lol.
Still dwarfed the mountain range, lol
Don't want to hear any bs when the inside of the Island looks like this
Yeah, not an island. I'm 99% sure that my county is bigger than this.
Are you blind?
This is just one of the rocks you see from outside of the Island.
Again you have to be trolling if you think Zommari wins this....
Nah anyone who has read Bleach knows Zommari hard counters most abilities in One Piece, especially Ace.
You must have memory loss of Bleach if you think Ace wins.
Stalemate then
Kek.
Same way Characters in One piece can see souls
Zommari ain't a soul bud.
NLF by your logic Galactica can be elreiatsu crushed or even Superman
NLF by your logic Ace can see what Galactus and Superman can do before they try anything. And they have no feats against Logia Intangs GG One Piece soloes Marvel and DC with ease.
Also I just realize, Ace doesn't have Observation Haki lol nor was it ever shown to.
No Kenbunshoku Haki for you Ace lol.
???? I've just showed you a scan here it is again:
Ok I'll ask again:
"How big are these tiers exactly?"
Last resort...
Which won't happen because Zommari would already have Ace as his pet by just looking at him.
Zommari still isn't tanking a First fist.
Lol, he survived Gokei. Feats for Fire Fist?
Even in the scan you showed (below Ace's attack still dwarfed Mountain ranges by its lonesome.
Never dwarfed anything.
Says the one who uses Ichigo smacking away Aizen's Hado when it didn't even completely form in the manga.
Uh, that's still a feat, he stilled smacked away a Kido that warps space and time, a full chant at that. Which is why Aizen was shocked.
Still dwarfed the mountain range, lol
I get that you're kind of terrible at geography Sky, but let's be real now, that Island isn't big at all, and the smallest mountain range in the world is still 75 miles squared, so you gotta prove that's a legit mountain range.
Are you blind?
This is just one of the rocks you see from outside of the Island.
Yeah, I doubt I could see half of the townships in my county from that angle. Stop underestimating size Sky.
Yes if he can Tag them.
Why shouldn't he?
"Lanza gg", "Barragan can age Kizaru"
Yep. Lanza still one-shots anyone from One Piece. And Kizaru has been shown to age, so he gets aged. Shocking, isn't it?
the way i see it,since Zommari starts in Base, ace just does this and game over.
How will Ace even know where Zommari is? What's stopping Zommari from using his Gemelos Sonido if this happens? All I see is an attack dwarfing trees, and Zommari survived Gokei.
I still don't see a reason why Zommari can't stomp here.
the way i see it,since Zommari starts in Base, ace just does this and game over.
How will Ace even know where Zommari is? What's stopping Zommari from using his Gemelos Sonido if this happens? All I see is an attack dwarfing trees, and Zommari survived Gokei.
lets say he can see cause he if cant, this turn the tides alot. and sonido isnt gonna do much over someone whos is Intangible. and the attack dwarfing trees huh. thats one of aces weakest attacks and it done that, much less the attack that dwarfed a island.
I still don't see a reason why Zommari can't stomp here.
and i still dont see a reason on why zommari can even touch or hit or tag ace. ace would use firefly and zommari would go to use sondio to hit him, only to be met with firefly and burned to cinders.
the way i see it,since Zommari starts in Base, ace just does this and game over.
lets say he can see cause he if cant, this turn the tides alot. and sonido isnt gonna do much over someone whos is Intangible.
If we are playing Logia intang game then Ace can't even hurt Zommari who has superior reiatsu defenses.
and the attack dwarfing trees huh. thats one of aces weakest attacks and it done that, much less the attack that dwarfed a island.
That Island isn't very big, by scans, it shouldn't be bigger than the county I'm located in.
and i still dont see a reason on why zommari can even touch or hit or tag ace.
Ace shouldn't even know where Zommari will be though, Zommari should be invisible here.
ace would use firefly and zommari would go to use sondio to hit him, only to be met with firefly and burned to cinders.
If Zommari realizes he can't beat Ace in base, because of the heat, he should go into Released and just take control of his body from there. Logia intang or not, Ace has a brain, and his intang can't save him from Reiatsu-Based attacks.
@faradaysloth: I edited my comment Ace oneshots with conquerors since he vastly outstats him so it isn't a NLF like reiatsu crush
L,NEXT ARGUEMENT
And lol at using wiki Jinbei was stated to have Observation Haki there is no way Ace could have stalemate him without it.
Lol at Observation Haki being a NLF when there is a weakness for the precog portion of it and it being you have to be vastly Superior to your opponent in speed to the point of blitzing.
It did dwarf the stone are you dense?
There is only one that doesn't get completely dwarfed by it and even so it's still taller.
It isn't a feat when the Hado didn't completely form.
@faradaysloth: I edited my comment Ace oneshots with conqyerors
Reiatsu Crush>Conqueror's Haki.
Zommari R-Crushes him till he is left breathless then slices his head off nice and clean while his Logia intang is turned off since Ace ain't focusing it on that atm.
Zommari's eyes don't have the feats to tag a logia. Ace stomps hard.
This is saying no Kido can harm a Logia intang person.
The only way for a kido to affect a logia would be for it to actually disperse the DF users body. Kido actually have feats of affecting fire, whereas Zommari's ability is meant to control living beings(Bleach characters aren't made out of fire.) Zommari's eyes have never tagged literal fire and they were never shown to be able to tag something that doesn't actually have a physical form.
Do you honestly think Zommari's eye's could control a lake or a wildfire?
Zommari's eyes don't have the feats to tag a logia. Ace stomps hard.
This is saying no Kido can harm a Logia intang person.
The only way for a kido to affect a logia would be for it to actually disperse the DF users body. Kido actually have feats of affecting fire, whereas Zommari's ability is meant to control living beings(Bleach characters aren't made out of fire.) Zommari's eyes have never tagged literal fire and they were never shown to be able to tag something that doesn't actually have a physical form.
Do you honestly think Zommari's eye's could control a lake or a wildfire?
Byakuya directly compares it to Kido, and I should've worded it better, it's suppose to be Reiatsu Based attacks. Fire Logias have no feats suggesting they can resist Reiatsu Based attacks.
Ace has a brain, limbs, organs, etc. whether he is made out of fire or not, considering Amor was physical to Danku, why can't it be physical to an actual person?
Zommari's eyes don't have the feats to tag a logia. Ace stomps hard.
This is saying no Kido can harm a Logia intang person.
The only way for a kido to affect a logia would be for it to actually disperse the DF users body. Kido actually have feats of affecting fire, whereas Zommari's ability is meant to control living beings(Bleach characters aren't made out of fire.) Zommari's eyes have never tagged literal fire and they were never shown to be able to tag something that doesn't actually have a physical form.
Do you honestly think Zommari's eye's could control a lake or a wildfire?
Byakuya directly compares it to Kido, and I should've worded it better, it's suppose to be Reiatsu Based attacks. Fire Logias have no feats suggesting they can resist Reiatsu Based attacks.
Except Armor has only ever stuck to solid surfaces. Do you think Zommari could control a wild fire with his eyes??? How bout lightning or light???
Ace has a brain, limbs, organs, etc. whether he is made out of fire or not, considering Amor was physical to Danku, why can't it be physical to an actual person?
Zommari's eyes don't have the feats to tag a logia. Ace stomps hard.
This is saying no Kido can harm a Logia intang person.
The only way for a kido to affect a logia would be for it to actually disperse the DF users body. Kido actually have feats of affecting fire, whereas Zommari's ability is meant to control living beings(Bleach characters aren't made out of fire.) Zommari's eyes have never tagged literal fire and they were never shown to be able to tag something that doesn't actually have a physical form.
Do you honestly think Zommari's eye's could control a lake or a wildfire?
Except Armor has only ever stuck to solid surfaces. Do you think Zommari could control a wild fire with his eyes??? How bout lightning or light???
Ace is just as solid as Kido is.
Danku was solid. Fire is not.
Ace is solid and I already proved why Zommari could easily use the rules here to his advantage.
I say this every time, but shinigami invisibility is just a cheap, worn out argument that is used for a cop out just like soul crush. C'mon now.
It's not a cop-out at all, Zommari IS invisible to Ace, and Ace can fight invisible opponents considering how fodder in One Piece already had an invisible fruit. However, it being a random encounter proves costly for Ace. He's fighting an invisible opponent who he doesn't know his abilities on. Why not the surprise attack?
No. Ace oneshots with a massive katon.
Feats for this move? Though I'm 100% positive this isn't IC.
Ace is solid and I already proved why Zommari could easily use the rules here to his advantage.
Ace isn't solid tho. He's a fire logia. The rules are definitely against Zommari. He starts in base which gives Ace plenty of time to kill Zommari before he even uses his resurrection.
It's not a cop-out at all, Zommari IS invisible to Ace, and Ace can fight invisible opponents considering how fodder in One Piece already had an invisible fruit. However, it being a random encounter proves costly for Ace. He's fighting an invisible opponent who he doesn't know his abilities on. Why not the surprise attack?
In Bleach even some important humans can see shinigami. Using shinigami invisibility as an argument is a lame attempt to handicap the opposition .
Feats for this move? Though I'm 100% positive this isn't IC.
The best that Zommari tanked was from HM arc Byakuya. Zommari starts in base, so Ace doesn't have to go for this move off the bat, but when it hits, it will definitely kill Zommari. Armor wouldn't tag him anyways.
And yet he still can be touched. Busoshoku Haki hard counters Logias and that arguably acts like the most to Reiatsu when used for Offensive and Defensive purposes. Even if the energies aren't equalized, that would just mean Ace can't hurt Zommari due to having zilch Reiatsu fighting against an Espada. Ace still has a brain, limbs, etc. and that's how Amor function works, never said anything about physicality. Amor attacks the SOVEREIGNITYof an object, he even compares this as to Moon Light to Sun Light, Winds to Clouds, etc.
Sorry man, Ace is getting tagged no matter how you view this battle.
Ace isn't solid tho. He's a fire logia. The rules are definitely against Zommari. He starts in base which gives Ace plenty of time to kill Zommari before he even uses his resurrection.
I already disproved this claim up above. Zommari is practically a nightmare for any Logia. And Ace doesn't go for the kill first as opposed to Zommari. Even if he did "kill" Zommari there will always be Gemelos Sonido.
In Bleach even some important humans can see shinigami. Using shinigami invisibility as an argument is a lame attempt to handicap the opposition .
That's cause they have reiatsu. I mean it's pretty clear why they're "important", One Piece characters don't have that luxury. So energies not being equalized/are equalized favor Zommari in both ways.
The best that Zommari tanked was from HM arc Byakuya. Zommari starts in base, so Ace doesn't have to go for this move off the bat, but when it hits, it will definitely kill Zommari. Armor wouldn't tag him anyways.
Bruh Amor covers his whole body and Ace would play around and wouldn't blitz in a random encounter. The second Zommari is in released state it's over. Ace wouldn't know what has happened.
Based on everything in this thread, I'd still say Zommari stomps.
And yet he still can be touched. Busoshoku Haki hard counters Logias and that arguably acts like the most to Reiatsu when used for Offensive and Defensive purposes. Even if the energies aren't equalized, that would just mean Ace can't hurt Zommari due to having zilch Reiatsu fighting against an Espada. Ace still has a brain, limbs, etc. and that's how Amor function works, never said anything about physicality. Amor attacks the SOVEREIGNITYof an object, he even compares this as to Moon Light to Sun Light, Winds to Clouds, etc.
Haki is really an individual verse energy source. There are multiple specific forms that are used for different functions. Hiero could be considered armament haki, and pesquisa could be considered observation haki, but Zommari's Armor doesn't really fit any of the requirements that would allow it to tag a logia even with energies equal.
Sorry man, Ace is getting tagged no matter how you view this battle.
Zommari talking about Clouds and wind is just really vague metaphors. Zommari still can't tag fire.
Ace isn't solid tho. He's a fire logia. The rules are definitely against Zommari. He starts in base which gives Ace plenty of time to kill Zommari before he even uses his resurrection.
I already disproved this claim up above. Zommari is practically a nightmare for any Logia. And Ace doesn't go for the kill first as opposed to Zommari. Even if he did "kill" Zommari there will always be Gemelos Sonido.
Ace doesn't have to go for the kill off the bat when he has firepower that will kill Zommari in one hit. All Ace has to do is let loose a wide AOE attack and Zommari is toast.
In Bleach even some important humans can see shinigami. Using shinigami invisibility as an argument is a lame attempt to handicap the opposition .
That's cause they have reiatsu. I mean it's pretty clear why they're "important", One Piece characters don't have that luxury. So energies not being equalized/are equalized favor Zommari in both ways.
Shinigami invisibility is still a cheap tactic. Even if Zommari was invisible Ace would just let loose a wide AOE attack and Zommari is toast. Energy equalization isn't going to save Zommari.
The best that Zommari tanked was from HM arc Byakuya. Zommari starts in base, so Ace doesn't have to go for this move off the bat, but when it hits, it will definitely kill Zommari. Armor wouldn't tag him anyways.
Bruh Amor covers his whole body and Ace would play around and wouldn't blitz in a random encounter. The second Zommari is in released state it's over. Ace wouldn't know what has happened.
Unless Ace just decides to throw out a huge attack. Zommari played his little blitz game with Byakuya before he used his resurrection. Ace has plenty of time to kill Zommari before then. Ace is fire tho, so it doesn't really matter.
Based on everything in this thread, I'd still say Zommari stomps.
Ace engages in close combat, Zommari does the same, Zommari uses his resurrection, it fails, Ace laughs, Ace drops a heavy attack, and Zommari dies.
Zommari's Armor doesn't really fit any of the requirements that would allow it to tag a logia even with energies equal.
I literally just showed you how Amor works, it's a straight negater of Sovereignty of an object. Are you saying Zommari can't bypass Nnoitra's Hierro or Ulquiorra's Pesquisa?
Zommari talking about Clouds and wind is just really vague metaphors. Zommari still can't tag fire.
That's not how Amor works...
A Person made out of fire doesn't change how the ability works.
Ace doesn't have to go for the kill off the bat when he has firepower that will kill Zommari in one hit. All Ace has to do is let loose a wide AOE attack and Zommari is toast.
IC Ace in a random encounter will never, ever do this against an invisible opponent. Nor will he do this to Zommari in his Released state because he would likely be confused. This is Ace.
Shinigami invisibility is still a cheap tactic. Even if Zommari was invisible Ace would just let loose a wide AOE attack and Zommari is toast. Energy equalization isn't going to save Zommari.
This will never happen, besides, Zommari still has El Embrion.
Unless Ace just decides to throw out a huge attack. Zommari played his little blitz game with Byakuya before he used his resurrection. Ace has plenty of time to kill Zommari before then. Ace is fire tho, so it doesn't really matter.
Sigh:
Scenario 1: Energies are equalized, Zommari practically has every Haki in the book, then slices Ace's head off.
Scenario 3: Same as above, but Zommari kills Ace since he doesn't have Kenbunshoku Haki, thus making him vulnerable to a surprise attack, where his Logia Intang is likely off. If this doesn't work, Gemelos Sonido will definitely take Ace off-guard.
Scenario 4: Zommari enters into Brujeria, then one-shots Ace with Sovereignty Negation via Amor.
Only Scenario I see Ace winning is if he is bloodlusted.
Ace engages in close combat, Zommari does the same, Zommari uses his resurrection, it fails, Ace laughs, Ace drops a heavy attack, and Zommari dies.
This goes against OP rules and has been disproven. You need to provide some proof as to why Ace won't get stomped here.
@skysanji: OP has ni comparable speed feats most of them cant even react to bullets and Brooke reacting to lighting is a outlier. Zommaru stomps until we get speed feats from OP
@skysanji: OP has ni comparable speed feats most of them cant even react to bullets and Brooke reacting to lighting is a outlier. Zommaru stomps until we get speed feats from OP
Bottom tier nobody number 1: East Blue Luffy jumping in front of bullets to save Zoro
- Damaged Zoro casually weaving between bullets shot by the celestial dragon
- Zoro and Luffy dodging blue flame gas on Sky Island
Gallery
Law,marco,luffy,black beard,WB ect alll gettting hit by bullets.?
Luffy was protecting Zoro who was literally tied up at the time Next
Vinsmokes were protecting Sanji who was in turn protecting Luffy who was unconscious, next
There is no context for that Reiju scene, next
Doffy beat Law up prior to shooting him.
Your attempt at lowballing was nonsensical and abysmal at best, none of these scans show they aren't able to dodge bullets.
Brooke being lighting is a outlier at its finest. Thats like me saying SS arc captains lightspeed for reacting to aizens light.
You are incredible, Get Lost troll....
As you can see you've got debunked now here's my thing....
How can someone says something, get debunked, run away and then comeback and say the same thing again? You are a lost cause at this point keep saying that and I'll say Ichigo only hit lightning speeds during the Candice Catnip fight, Get lost troll.
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