Vs.
Rules
- Random encounter
- No bfr
- Morals off
- Zeus has armor
- Standard equipment
- Bloodlusted
Location
Zeus Vs. Phoenix Five
@uberhikari said:
Do I personally have those scans? No. But does it matter? Like I said in my previous post, so what? You're not arguing in good faith because you and I both know that even if I could show you 1,000 instances where Odin considered Zeus his equal you would still not accept it. This is confirmed when you write this:
Or perhaps I might be convinced to agree with you if sufficient evidence is given? Your deflections of the point by incorrectly assuming my own disregard for a character's comments are most audacious.
You're trying to play both sides of the fence with a rather duplicitous position: On one hand you're asking for evidence that Odin considers Zeus his equal, but on the other hand you're implying that even if I had such evidence it wouldn't necessarily convince you that Odin and Zeus are equals. See what I'm saying?
Before I even address your regard for my argument, I'd like to see why you think that this is playing both sides of the fence. If something is simply implied, it isn't something that can be said with certainty, and you are assuming enough to suggest that I would deflect every point regardless of the evidence provided, but you lack the evidential criteria to substantiate this and you use it to deflect posting evidence. You'd be appealing to ignorance if you stipulated that I wouldn't necessarily (but even the term "necessarily" indicates I might) concede that point even if you posted that evidence, based off what implied, which is assuming your assessment of my views is correct in the first place.
More than that, you also managed to quote part of my post about Eternity regarded the Living Tribunal as his peer, but you never replied to it. Regardless of how bringing this up affects my argument, your inability to respond weakens your argument. Even if Odin declared that Zeus was his equal, does that necessarily mean it is correct? I cited another instance of this sort of remark where it was demonstrably not the case, but you neglected to respond to it either out of disregard or lack of suitable response, both of which weakens your argument.
As for evidence, Eternity outright stated he considered only the Living Tribunal to be his peer:
And yet, we know Eternity and the Living Tribunal are not peers, the Living Tribunal is clearly and most certainly more powerful. Tell me why Odin's accounts of Zeus being his peer (which I still haven't seen evidence for) would be different. Again, I vaguely recall this being the case, but I can't say I remember it on-panel. I only remember Dormammu and Thor saying so on-panel.
What? Everything you've written in this thread suggests that you believe that Zeus is not only not Odin's equal but, going by feats, is either herald level or possibly below. Shall I quote everything you've written? Let's see:
Phoenix Five every time. Zeus lacks the feats to be stomping them.
Well, to be fair, there was also a time where Thor stalemated Zeus for months.
I still see nothing to suggest Zeus could win. His feats are more or less continent-level, except for when he shook a planet by being angry.
The last statement is particularly striking: Zeus's feats are continent-level except for when he shook a planet? That doesn't suggest that him shaking a planet is an outlier? That seems to be the suggestion... Everything you've written suggests that Zeus is, at best, herald level. You can't make several statements about how, going by feats, Zeus is herald level and then take issue with people pointing out that you're saying that Zeus is herald level. Again, you can't have it both ways.
I love how you cite all of these instances but fail to/neglect to refute any of it. Furthermore, your blatant disregard for my previous clarifications of my standpoint regarding Zeus being herald level is fascinating:
@shootingnova said:
How is he not on Herald level? He rarely exercises his full power, with most of his feats being limited in effort, and he shook a world by being angry.
@shootingnova said:
Moreover, I just acknowledged that I don't believe Zeus is only or below Herald level, but you insist that is my implication? Did you even read my post?
I said this twice and you failed to address it, and I bolded part of the first quote to highlight something important I said which you again neglected to recognize. Again, did you read my post?
You seem to have the intention of making me repeal my previous assertions, but unfortunately nothing you have said thus far is going to make this the case. You'll need to do more than just deflect my points and ignore a number of them. That is not a pragmatic style of debating and you still lack substance for your claims.
This is not true. Zeus solo'd the Avengers.
He was bloodlusted the entire time and still suffered a number of hits. Odin would have most certainly one-shotted them based off his fights with, say, Seth, which destroyed galaxies and affected the fabric of the multiverse, but Zeus required both the full expenditure of his physical strength and power and still required multiple blows to incapacitate them before they eventually awoke, and Zeus himself withstood a number of blows. The fact that he was bloodlusted, that the Avengers were not even trying to belligerently and madly assault him as he did them, and the fact that the fight itself lasted so long, is evidence that he is not on par with Odin.
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