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#1 Posted by FairyDuke (183 posts) - - Show Bio
 Zeref the Black Wizard
Zeref the Black Wizard



VS


- Melascula (NNT)

- Sin Gowther (NNT)

- Estarossa (NNT)

- Hendrickson Demon (NNT)

- Calm Katakuri (OP)

- Dressrosa Doflamingo (OP)

- Kizaru (OP)

- Sabaody Kuma (OP)

- Itachi (Naruto)

- Nagato (Naruto)

- Kinkaku and Ginkaku Gold Silver brothers (Naruto)

- 4th War Gaara (Naruto)


  • everyone blood lusted
  • everyone with knowledge
  • Plot armor and PIS restricted
  • standard equipment

winnin conditions

win by any means - BFR, incapacitation, death, KO, unconscious.......

@thevivas@god_vulcan@flashingsabre@westwood_trevor@dust_hawk@linglung@socajunkie@thebeardofzues@hittheassasin@zuriel-el@ladyadeline@asurakj@gear4god@chaos239

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#2 Posted by DeathHero61 (18477 posts) - - Show Bio

Melascula gives him the Ban treatment. His physical body may be immortal, but not his soul.

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#3 Edited by LordWhis2 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Itachi Edo ?

Does he have the Yata mirror & the totsuka blade.

Not that it matters, a non-edo Itachi without any tools, Nagato, Katakuri, Doffy & Kizaru all solo.

This is a mismatch.

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#4 Edited by Dust_Hawk (1464 posts) - - Show Bio

He lose every round 😐 Don't know much about Gowther.

However Zeref gets sealed, buried under a Sand Tsunami, turned into a golden statue, buried under hundreds of meters in the ground, Genjutsu'd, sealed again, soul sealed/destroyed/stole, crushed and trap in the Chibaku Tensei core, sealed again due to Rikudo Sennin sacred tools, BFR'd by Kuma, trolled by Doffy's Parassite Strings etc. etc.

Not fair.

(Zeref with that face seems a bit...you know R-word).

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#5 Edited by FairyDuke (183 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by LordWhis2 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@fairyduke: He has hope against only Nagato. (Though I have no idea what NNT is)

If this is Edo Itachi then it is a total massacre because there is no way Zeref is getting past-

1. Amaterasu which has been shown to overwhelm characters with upto Moon Level Durability.

2. Complete invulnerability to conventional forms of attack.

3. The ability to kill with eye contact.

4. A teleporting crow that can defeat with a glimpse.

5. Time Loops

6. Reality Warping.

7. A sword that ignores durability.

8. Clones spamming 1-7 at the same time.

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#7 Posted by LordWhis2 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@fairyduke: After reading up about NNT, I'm pretty sure he takes them all fairly easily with Estarossa giving him minor trouble.

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#8 Posted by LadyAdeline (398 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't see him winning a single fight.

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#9 Posted by Rickthenick (575 posts) - - Show Bio

Who can he win against? Anyone who underestimates him and gets hit by the death curse (though this is unlikely).

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#10 Posted by ElderElijah190 (1837 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordwhis2: Nope,estarossa solos the ft verse honestly. He would speedblitz him to kindom come,his commandment could decap him. Plus the average DC/raw power he packs is motethan enough to knock him out.

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#11 Posted by B_r023 (5533 posts) - - Show Bio

Loses every single round.

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#12 Posted by LordWhis2 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@elderelijah190: That's pushing it, Zeref has a very large ap/Dura advantage.

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#13 Posted by DeathHero61 (18477 posts) - - Show Bio

- Melascula (NNT) Soul ripped

- Sin Gowther (NNT) Mind rapped

- Estarossa (NNT) Estarossa has no way to put him down.

- Hendrickson Demon (NNT) Zeref wins this one.

- Kizaru (OP) Kizaru has no way to put him down.

- Sabaody Kuma (OP) Kuma wins this one.

- Itachi (Naruto) Itachi

- Nagato (Naruto) Soul rip

- Kinkaku and Ginkaku Gold Silver brothers (Naruto) why would they stand a chance?

- 4th War Gaara (Naruto) Zeref stomps.

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#14 Posted by FairyDuke (183 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Do you think Estarossa commandment is not a factor too?

Kinkaku and Ginkaku fought against Tobirama the teleporter. They have also the KN5 forms like a Jinchuuriki and Hagoromo tricky sealing weapons. I don't think they are non factors.

Gaara gold dust, giant sand wave, the possibility to burry him under several hundreds of meters in the ground, the poss. to fly with his sand, the speed, and sealing jutsu Desert Mausoleum are non factors?

Remember the win by any means rules. OP.

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#15 Edited by FairyDuke (183 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordwhis2: Even with win by any means rule? Read OP if you want to know everything

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#16 Edited by LordWhis2 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@fairyduke: He wins against Gaara, Kuma, Ginkaku & Kinkaku & the nnt characters.

Everybody else beats him.

Katakuri & Kizaru stomp him.

Itachi vs him is just a mismatch, Edo Itachi is a moonbuster with Amaterasu, Zeref has never fought anyone who is even remotely as powerful. The gap is ridiculous even without the autowin tools & the hax.

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#17 Posted by Westwood_Trevor (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

win by any means - BFR, incapacitation, death, KO, unconscious.......

. . .Ok. . .

- Melascula (NNT)

  • Mela traps Zeref inside the Cocoon of Darkness

  • Soul rip

- Sin Gowther (NNT)

  • Gow rewrites his memories

  • In other words mind r*pe

- Estarossa (NNT)

  • Can't remember Esta's commandment and how it work. This could be a stalemate if Esta isn't faster and stronger. . . better. . .than Zeref in every way. However Esta can knock him out for good

- Hendrickson Demon (NNT)

  • Hendry is a weaker version than Esta, but still stronger, faster, better than Zeref

  • Dark Snow

- Calm Katakuri (OP)

  • Stalemate or Katakuri knocks him out like Esta. Still faster, stronger, better

  • Katakuri traps Zeref inside the Mochi, just like when he restricted Luffy with it

- Dressrosa Doflamingo (OP)

  • Parassyte Strings

  • Knocks Zeref out

  • Still better in almost everything

- Kizaru (OP)

  • Same as above (so below) but better

- Sabaody Kuma (OP)

  • Kuma BFR him

- Itachi (Naruto)

  • Genjutsu

  • Totsuka Blade seals Zeref

  • Izanami

  • Kotoamatsukami

  • Faster, far more skilled in battle, precog, far more strategic

- Nagato (Naruto)

  • Soul rip with Human Path - Naraka Path - Gedo Mazo

  • Nagato traps him inside a Chibaku Tensei

  • Shinra Tensei breaks his body and sends him miles away

  • Better (as above)

- Kinkaku and Ginkaku Gold Silver brothers (Naruto)

  • They seals him with Rope of Clarity - Crimson Gourd - Seven Star Sword

  • Kurama chakra and KN forms

  • Better. . .

- 4th War Gaara (Naruto)

  • Gaara turns him into a golden statue due to Magnet Release: Gold Dust

  • Gaara sends him 200+ meters under the battleground. Incap.

  • Gaara buries him with the Sand Tsunami

  • Gaara seals him

  • Faster, fly advantage, battleground advantage. . .

In other words everyone here can defeat Zeref. "Win by any means" is unfair. . .

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#18 Posted by Westwood_Trevor (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61:

- Kinkaku and Ginkaku Gold Silver brothers (Naruto) why would they stand a chance?

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- 4th War Gaara (Naruto) Zeref stomps.

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Unless I've missed a new hidden chapter with Zeref's new feats like a massive speed upgrade, DC and attacks. . . he can't stand a chance against Gaara. Let alone stomp him. Everything is also worse if we consider the "win by any means".

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#19 Edited by ElderElijah190 (1837 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordwhis2: First of all,this is a battle. Thing is when you resent/hate estarossa,you basically become impotent. Its an attack and a defence. Zeref would be unable to perform in any way possible. He would no longer hold the will to even muster a punch in the first place. This would leave zeref decapitated. If I also remember correctly,estarossa could knock him out like he casually did against ban who is immortal,he was able to stop and counter mels revenge counter with his bear hands,effortlessly. He's also one that speedblitz in character without giving a chance for chit chat,it is basically his ace. He stomps zeref actually.

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#20 Posted by DrPepperMan (6108 posts) - - Show Bio

The one person I see him beating (within knowledge) is Gaara.

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#21 Posted by Westwood_Trevor (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

The one person I see him beating (within knowledge) is Gaara.

How exactly?

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#22 Posted by DrPepperMan (6108 posts) - - Show Bio

@westwood_trevor: as God_Vulcan has proven, Natsu is MHS+, and zeref was fighting on par with him, so speed shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Zeref was tanking blows from Igneel Flame natsu, and igneel has shown mountain level attacks in his fight with Acnologia.

He also can freeze time and can use death magic.

Don't know if Zeref has fairy heart so won't comment on that.

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#23 Posted by LordWhis2 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@elderelijah190: I don't anything about this verse I just did a quick read through about these characters.

Also, you can fight someone without hating them.

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#24 Edited by Westwood_Trevor (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@drpepperman:

as God_Vulcan has proven, Natsu is MHS+, and zeref was fighting on par with him, so speed shouldn't be too much of a problem.

The difference comes when Gaara has the advantage of:

  • Fly
  • His chakra infused sand has its own life and protects Gaara without his control
  • Battleground advantage
  • Body Substitution jutsu

    There's difference between Natsu/Zeref and Gaara's speed/reactions. Since Kage Summit Gaara was able to keep up with Ay's Lightning Armor attacks casually. The massive speed gap comes when Gaara was able to keep up with 8th Gates Guy's speed (when he created a sand cloud for Kakashi in order to reach Guy and warp away Juudara's Gudoudama Shield before Guy reached it). Not to mention that "there are MHS+ feats and MHS+ feats".

Zeref was tanking blows from Igneel Flame natsu, and igneel has shown mountain level attacks in his fight with Acnologia.

Natsu only had a part of Igneel's power, as he stated. Are you saying everyattack from Natsu is a mountain level attack? Seems like feats are against this claim.

However DC is irrelevant here. Gaara only need to do one of these things:

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He also can freeze time

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He can't freeze time - he neved did it in a battle.

I'm glad if you can post a scan or a statement that proves that Zeref has time-stop magic, since it was never stated to be time stop nor it was done in a fight or in another situation besides to talk with Natsu, where we can see the dust, all around Natsu, not being stopped. It was also debunked.

can use death magic.

Easily dodged by char massively slower than anyone in this list. Who? Elfman. With knowledge Gaara won't be tagged by it not even if he want.

Don't know if Zeref has fairy heart so won't comment on that.

OP says Black Wizard with a pic of base Zeref. However with or without FH Zeref will be sealed just like as his base form.

In other words Zeref wins against War Gaara (with knowledge too) due to fan theories? 'Cause nothing here proves how he can beat Gaara and dodge his attacks from above/below/everywhere.

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#25 Edited by ElderElijah190 (1837 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordwhis2: Actually no,there is no way you won't feel a slight hatred for who you're up against in a battle. A tier of zeref's caliber would immediately fall prey. He could always physically knock him out,which would also count as a win though.

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#26 Posted by DeathHero61 (18477 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Do you think Estarossa commandment is not a factor too?

Kinkaku and Ginkaku fought against Tobirama the teleporter. They have also the KN5 forms like a Jinchuuriki and Hagoromo tricky sealing weapons. I don't think they are non factors.

Gaara gold dust, giant sand wave, the possibility to burry him under several hundreds of meters in the ground, the poss. to fly with his sand, the speed, and sealing jutsu Desert Mausoleum are non factors?

Remember the win by any means rules. OP.

The commandment of love? Against Zeref? Did anybody actually bother finishing FT and see how Zeref dies? Zeref holds no real ill will towards anyone and the last thing he's ever done was love.

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#27 Posted by DrPepperMan (6108 posts) - - Show Bio

@westwood_trevor: in your third scan, was that mountains it was dwarfing? If so just forget I said anything.

I know Gaara is faster than Zeref, but so long as Zeref doesn't get blitzed the speed gap shouldn't be too much of a problem.

No, of course not, but natsu has shown to be very impressive in the striking and DC department, and natsu was hitting him with his hard hits, so I'd say that at least he as consistently hitting him with Town+ level attacks. Not to mention how natsu had mountain level feats of his own (three to my knowledge.)

Hm, those would definitely be very troublesome and would probably take over zeref, but does the sand have durability feats?

There's a difference between "he can't" and "never did in battle." And I don't believe there was another momsnt in the series he would need to pause time. In any case, it may not be time stop, but at least it shows what the wiki described as immobilization magic.

Ok now that's wrong. The first time natsu intercepted it and the second time the scarf absorbed it. There's more to death magic than just the wave.

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#28 Edited by Westwood_Trevor (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@drpepperman:

I know Gaara is faster than Zeref, but so long as Zeref doesn't get blitzed the speed gap shouldn't be too much of a problem.

As I said:The difference comes when Gaara has the advantage of:

  • Fly
  • His chakra infused sand has its own life and protects Gaara without his control if needed
  • Battleground advantage
  • Body Substitution jutsu

Zeref will be surrounded by Gaara's attacks. Consider also that most of Gaara's attacks are unpredictable without precog or a great speed advantage. Example: Gaara vs Edo Kage

No, of course not, but natsu has shown to be very impressive in the striking and DC department, and natsu was hitting him with his hard hits, so I'd say that at least he as consistently hitting him with Town+ level attacks.

Seems like a VSBattle-like headcanon to me. Natsu's normal fists aren't town+ busters/level. And if those fists are town+ level then he should have completely erased the guild during his barbrawl with Zeref. Feats are agains you.

Hm, those would definitely be very troublesome and would probably take over zeref, but does the sand have durability feats?

Several. Tanking multiple Susanoo's swords, tanking Amaterasu, tanking C3 Sunagakure buster, tanking moon meteors etc. etc. everything above Zeref attack-feats.

And I don't believe there was another momsnt in the series he would need to pause time. In any case, it may not be time stop, but at least it shows what the wiki described as immobilization magic.

Several moments?

  • When Gray tried to freeze him
  • When Makarov escaped from Alvarez Empire
  • When Mavis escaped from his hand
  • When he fought against base Natsu (not E.N.D)
  • Take back the book of E.N.D. Easy cake with time stop, right? But nope
  • Reach FT Guild and Mavis body without problems and without an army

This was also debated in antoher thread IMO:

Wiki? Not reliable. I can edit Wiki and write that Zeref can bust planets with the power-of-this-d*ck. You need a manga confirmation or an official databook (made by Mashima/mangaka) confirmations.

Ok now that's wrong.

Nope. Predictable - very easy to dodge or avoid.

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Edit: Gaara is also smarter by a lot than Zeref as their battles proved. Let alone now, with knowledge.