Zen’ō vs Sinbad

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MarMarMar203

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Depends on the version

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CocaColaMan

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How strong is this dude Sinbad?

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MarMarMar203

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#203  Edited By MarMarMar203

@cocacolaman: he's probably country level in his normal version but at the end of the manga he had a huge powerup so it's hard to say

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Kidolio

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#204  Edited By Kidolio

If sinbad truly is a reality warper then Zeno is so screwed, sorry Zeno I don’t care how good your destruction capabilities are there are just some hax you can’t overcome with brute force.

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deactivated-5d3b5ee4922c4

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Sinbad should win, as his opposition has no way to hurt him permanently or at all.

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ThisIsAUsername

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Sinbad stomps the alien football

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panda_emperorix

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Zeno stomps

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Gaoron

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Probably Zeno, vs wiki is not a good source to take information from. The link for his "2A" tier justification doesn't even work :/

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VarricPatermann

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Sinbad blinks. There is no way that Omniking could harm him.

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CaoCao

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Zeno can´t even reach the sacred palace. He get overwritten or destroyed by Sinbad

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Syncroniam

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This is a good match since their powers are kind of equal although it comes down to how cunning they are and Sinbad has the advantage over this so he would most likely win.

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EcoBlitz

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Wanderez

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#214  Edited By Wanderez

Sinbad is a higher dimensional being, he stomps the verse by defualt.

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floydfromhell97

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Sinbad

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ValorKnight

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Still Sinbad, and easily at that.

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Bossmountain

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Amazing this thread has been going on for years and so far no one has posted any actual feats for sinbad.

People should to be taking vs wiki with a grain of salt. Saying Sinbad win because he's place at a higher tier in vs Wiki is like saying Kratos from G.o.W should solo DBS because he is place on a higher dimensional tier in vs Wiki

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EcoBlitz

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@bossmountain: you say no one has shown any feats for sinbad which can only happen if you haven’t read the thread then mention that 1 guy that used vsbattle... either your have selective ability to ignore proof or you’re plain disingenuous. I’m thinking both

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CaoCao

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#219  Edited By CaoCao

@bossmountain said:

Amazing this thread has been going on for years and so far no one has posted any actual feats for sinbad.

Read from page one. I postet enough feats in the debate with 1-2 users.

People should to be taking vs wiki with a grain of salt. Saying Sinbad win because he's place at a higher tier in vs Wiki is like saying Kratos from G.o.W should solo DBS because he is place on a higher dimensional tier in vs Wiki

There is a huge difference between the cosmology from God of War and Magi. Magi has a countless, nearly infinite dimensional layer trough the hierarchy of Gods, and Sinbad is one of the lowest in the ladder. Diagonal and horizontal dimensions exist in Magi, also worlds in magi means universes, since it was stated by Aladdin, Ugo, etc. what the "world" means. You have countless worlds in the Magi universe(multiverse) and this is just from the point of the lowest ladder. You also have with God David higher abstract beings which destroys Sinbad like Paper, or Aladdin who reads in the Sacred Palace stories about himself from alternative worlds. You also have Ugo who considered the fight between Sinbad and David from a higher plane of existence (It was like Sinbad and David was a beat em up computergame and Ugo played it) You can find all the information here on the last pages, and even here:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/yhwach-and-kaguya-vs-sinbad-magi-2001616/?page=2

Sinbad also destroyed a universe with his God Ill-Illah who was connected to several worlds. Sinbad recreate the rules of the world and exist beyond the Magi multiverse via existing inside of the Sacred Palace.

Zeno has nothing like this, he is no abstract existence on a higher plane and Sinbad is fodder compared to David, Ugo and the unknown Gods.

Compared to the God of War verse (Who was more scaled because the greek cosmology) is that far more consistent then most other on VsBattle. I didn´t see Kratos on a universal scale, also Kratos by VsBattle is still via this Wank only 2-C which put him one/two dimensional level below Sinbad. I agreed that Zeno whipes out the whole GoW franchise, since it is a very poor version of the greek mythology in fiction (Still a good story) but against Magi, there is no way for him do bypassing Sinbad.

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Bossmountain

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@caocao: Aaah I see that cosmology is something else. Maybe if this Xenoverse Zeno this would be a more even fight.

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CaoCao

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#221  Edited By CaoCao

@bossmountain said:

@caocao: Aaah I see that cosmology is something else. Maybe if this Xenoverse Zeno this would be a more even fight.

At least more then God of War. Don´t know why they put Kratos on 2-C, if not via scaling because mythology. I also was going only with DBS Omniking, which is the only version i know.

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Floridaman29

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Zeno would win by a laughably large margin

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EcoBlitz

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@floridaman29: if we ignore every form of reasonable logic, feats shown by both sides then yes you’d be correct...

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VarricPatermann

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Meh… at first i thought some people bring up new arguments for Zeno, but at the end it is still a stomp for Sinbad. Too much headcanon here.

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@lilgodperv: He views everything below his level of reality as a fiction.

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debunkdude

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Sinbad may lolstomp this if his indeterminate tier is confirmed

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mevbi

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Sinbad stomps

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Ymirgod

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Zeno would win. Sinbad scales from ill illah universe creation but other than that his DC isn't multiversal in same manner as Zeno's is. Zeno can also go out of universes (world of void).

DC wise Zeno has better feat...

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VarricPatermann

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@varricpatermann: can zindabad view all alternate universes or timeline?

Sinbad exist beyond those. As a god he exist inside of the the Sacred Palace, a room which works more like a sandbox game. He destroyed and rewrite a god with his world that already exist beyond time and space. Ill Illah is more comparable to Zeno, based on the existence, but for Sinbad Ill Illah was only a jellyfish inside of a aquarium.

Sindbad is compared to the other gods weak, the Sacred Palace has countless layers of higher dimensional levels. The worlds in magi are "universes", the universes in Magi are multiverses, based on the construct that every world consist whole galaxies and a space-time continuum.

He can rewrite Zeno like he did with Ill Illah before.

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Ymirgod

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@lilgodperv said:

@varricpatermann: can zindabad view all alternate universes or timeline?

Sinbad exist beyond those. As a god he exist inside of the the Sacred Palace, a room which works more like a sandbox game. He destroyed and rewrite a god with his world that already exist beyond time and space. Ill Illah is more comparable to Zeno, based on the existence, but for Sinbad Ill Illah was only a jellyfish inside of a aquarium.

Sindbad is compared to the other gods weak, the Sacred Palace has countless layers of higher dimensional levels. The worlds in magi are "universes", the universes in Magi are multiverses, based on the construct that every world consist whole galaxies and a space-time continuum.

He can rewrite Zeno like he did with Ill Illah before.

there are not many worlds in magi and the universes are not multiverses either

multidimensional level doesnt matter when you cant even kill country level characters (David vs Aladdin and co.)

He doesnt have the power to do that to zeno. David-illah was merely universal (like Zamasu tier universal).

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MoneyyJunee

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Sinbad should win

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CaoCao

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Sinbad spitestomps. Why is this even debatable after 5 pages?

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VarricPatermann

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#234  Edited By VarricPatermann

@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@lilgodperv said:

@varricpatermann: can zindabad view all alternate universes or timeline?

Sinbad exist beyond those. As a god he exist inside of the the Sacred Palace, a room which works more like a sandbox game. He destroyed and rewrite a god with his world that already exist beyond time and space. Ill Illah is more comparable to Zeno, based on the existence, but for Sinbad Ill Illah was only a jellyfish inside of a aquarium.

Sindbad is compared to the other gods weak, the Sacred Palace has countless layers of higher dimensional levels. The worlds in magi are "universes", the universes in Magi are multiverses, based on the construct that every world consist whole galaxies and a space-time continuum.

He can rewrite Zeno like he did with Ill Illah before.

there are not many worlds in magi and the universes are not multiverses either

And Zeno only rules above 12 universes within one timeline. That isn´t multiversal either, since it is finite in size.

The magiverse itself has countless of worlds. The universe(s) itself has more then one space timecontinuum, which makes them more to a multiverse then Zeno his 12 universes with one timeline.

I wouldn´t say that Sinbad can destroy a multiverse, but against Zeno that isn´t even relevant since Zeno has nothing that put him on a multiversal durability. Sinbad on the other hand is multiversal just by existing inside of the palace.

And that was only based above that level what Sinbad can rule. Sinbad is compared to the other gods fodder.

multidimensional level doesnt matter when you cant even kill country level characters (David vs Aladdin and co.)

Sinbad already destroyed a universe with a multi-universal god, so what is the point? The same god Zeno can´t harm, since he can´t affect the Sacred Palace.

He doesnt have the power to do that to zeno. David-illah was merely universal (like Zamasu tier universal).

Ill Illah was the god of Alma Toran and even then he create another world. He is above the universal level. Also David > Sinbad.

Zamasu by himself was bound by the timeline, but Ill Illah his true self exist in the Sacred Palace.

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@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@lilgodperv said:

@varricpatermann: can zindabad view all alternate universes or timeline?

Sinbad exist beyond those. As a god he exist inside of the the Sacred Palace, a room which works more like a sandbox game. He destroyed and rewrite a god with his world that already exist beyond time and space. Ill Illah is more comparable to Zeno, based on the existence, but for Sinbad Ill Illah was only a jellyfish inside of a aquarium.

Sindbad is compared to the other gods weak, the Sacred Palace has countless layers of higher dimensional levels. The worlds in magi are "universes", the universes in Magi are multiverses, based on the construct that every world consist whole galaxies and a space-time continuum.

He can rewrite Zeno like he did with Ill Illah before.

there are not many worlds in magi and the universes are not multiverses either

And Zeno only rules above 12 universes within one timeline. That isn´t multiversal either, since it is finite in size.

The magiverse itself has countless of worlds. The universe(s) itself has more then one space timecontinuum, which makes them more to a multiverse then Zeno his 12 universes with one timeline.

I wouldn´t say that Sinbad can destroy a multiverse, but against Zeno that isn´t even relevant since Zeno has nothing that put him on a multiversal durability. Sinbad on the other hand is multiversal just by existing inside of the palace.

And that was only based above that level what Sinbad can rule. Sinbad is compared to the other gods fodder.

multidimensional level doesnt matter when you cant even kill country level characters (David vs Aladdin and co.)

Sinbad already destroyed a universe with a multi-universal god, so what is the point? The same god Zeno can´t harm, since he can´t affect the Sacred Palace.

He doesnt have the power to do that to zeno. David-illah was merely universal (like Zamasu tier universal).

Ill Illah was the god of Alma Toran and even then he create another world. He is above the universal level. Also David > Sinbad.

Zamasu by himself was bound by the timeline, but Ill Illah his true self exist in the Sacred Palace.

The dragon ball universes contain more dimensions the size of universe.

Zeno would be able to affect the sacred palace

We know that time flows in the SP as well its no different from Room of Spirit and Time where Goku trains literally right now in the manga with Merus...

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VarricPatermann

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#236  Edited By VarricPatermann

@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@lilgodperv said:

@varricpatermann: can zindabad view all alternate universes or timeline?

Sinbad exist beyond those. As a god he exist inside of the the Sacred Palace, a room which works more like a sandbox game. He destroyed and rewrite a god with his world that already exist beyond time and space. Ill Illah is more comparable to Zeno, based on the existence, but for Sinbad Ill Illah was only a jellyfish inside of a aquarium.

Sindbad is compared to the other gods weak, the Sacred Palace has countless layers of higher dimensional levels. The worlds in magi are "universes", the universes in Magi are multiverses, based on the construct that every world consist whole galaxies and a space-time continuum.

He can rewrite Zeno like he did with Ill Illah before.

there are not many worlds in magi and the universes are not multiverses either

And Zeno only rules above 12 universes within one timeline. That isn´t multiversal either, since it is finite in size.

The magiverse itself has countless of worlds. The universe(s) itself has more then one space timecontinuum, which makes them more to a multiverse then Zeno his 12 universes with one timeline.

I wouldn´t say that Sinbad can destroy a multiverse, but against Zeno that isn´t even relevant since Zeno has nothing that put him on a multiversal durability. Sinbad on the other hand is multiversal just by existing inside of the palace.

And that was only based above that level what Sinbad can rule. Sinbad is compared to the other gods fodder.

multidimensional level doesnt matter when you cant even kill country level characters (David vs Aladdin and co.)

Sinbad already destroyed a universe with a multi-universal god, so what is the point? The same god Zeno can´t harm, since he can´t affect the Sacred Palace.

He doesnt have the power to do that to zeno. David-illah was merely universal (like Zamasu tier universal).

Ill Illah was the god of Alma Toran and even then he create another world. He is above the universal level. Also David > Sinbad.

Zamasu by himself was bound by the timeline, but Ill Illah his true self exist in the Sacred Palace.

The dragon ball universes contain more dimensions the size of universe.

Hmm… based on what?

Also let´s say they have dimensions with a universal size, it wouldn´t change much. More universe is only more space/Volumen.

Zeno would be able to affect the sacred palace

How?

We know that time flows in the SP as well its no different from Room of Spirit and Time where Goku trains literally right now in the manga with Merus...

How is it inside of time if the lower worlds already have space-time continuums. The palace isn´t connected to those worlds in that point that everyone could go in their like they wish. The palace is more a control room full with different worlds and alternative stories. The regular world is just a book like Aladdin has shown, when he read about different storylines with Morgiana and the others. Even for the host of the SP, Sinbad was only a character inside of his own story. David inside of this room also has shown in the fight against Sinbad, that he is an abstract eternity. The palace is a complex world that exist outside of time and space, also outside of the stories from Magi.

Someone who can create a space-time continuum like Ill-Illah exist on the same plane like Zeno did, with the difference that Zeno has more Universes that he rules.

Maybe Xeno Zeno would be a better match, from what i heard about this guy.

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Ymirgod

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#237  Edited By Ymirgod

@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@lilgodperv said:

@varricpatermann: can zindabad view all alternate universes or timeline?

Sinbad exist beyond those. As a god he exist inside of the the Sacred Palace, a room which works more like a sandbox game. He destroyed and rewrite a god with his world that already exist beyond time and space. Ill Illah is more comparable to Zeno, based on the existence, but for Sinbad Ill Illah was only a jellyfish inside of a aquarium.

Sindbad is compared to the other gods weak, the Sacred Palace has countless layers of higher dimensional levels. The worlds in magi are "universes", the universes in Magi are multiverses, based on the construct that every world consist whole galaxies and a space-time continuum.

He can rewrite Zeno like he did with Ill Illah before.

there are not many worlds in magi and the universes are not multiverses either

And Zeno only rules above 12 universes within one timeline. That isn´t multiversal either, since it is finite in size.

The magiverse itself has countless of worlds. The universe(s) itself has more then one space timecontinuum, which makes them more to a multiverse then Zeno his 12 universes with one timeline.

I wouldn´t say that Sinbad can destroy a multiverse, but against Zeno that isn´t even relevant since Zeno has nothing that put him on a multiversal durability. Sinbad on the other hand is multiversal just by existing inside of the palace.

And that was only based above that level what Sinbad can rule. Sinbad is compared to the other gods fodder.

multidimensional level doesnt matter when you cant even kill country level characters (David vs Aladdin and co.)

Sinbad already destroyed a universe with a multi-universal god, so what is the point? The same god Zeno can´t harm, since he can´t affect the Sacred Palace.

He doesnt have the power to do that to zeno. David-illah was merely universal (like Zamasu tier universal).

Ill Illah was the god of Alma Toran and even then he create another world. He is above the universal level. Also David > Sinbad.

Zamasu by himself was bound by the timeline, but Ill Illah his true self exist in the Sacred Palace.

The dragon ball universes contain more dimensions the size of universe.

Hmm… based on what?

Also let´s say they have dimensions with a universal size, it wouldn´t change much. More universe is only more space/Volumen.

Zeno would be able to affect the sacred palace

How?

We know that time flows in the SP as well its no different from Room of Spirit and Time where Goku trains literally right now in the manga with Merus...

How is it inside of time if the lower worlds already have space-time continuums. The palace isn´t connected to those worlds in that point that everyone could go in their like they wish. The palace is more a control room full with different worlds and alternative stories. The regular world is just a book like Aladdin has shown, when he read about different storylines with Morgiana and the others. Even for the host of the SP, Sinbad was only a character inside of his own story. David inside of this room also has shown in the fight against Sinbad, that he is an abstract eternity. The palace is a complex world that exist outside of time and space, also outside of the stories from Magi.

Someone who can create a space-time continuum like Ill-Illah exist on the same plane like Zeno did, with the difference that Zeno has more Universes that he rules.

Maybe Xeno Zeno would be a better match, from what i heard about this guy.

the map of the db 7th universe with heaven etc all size of universe

even jiren shake world of void which is infinite and out of universes... space...

room of spirit and time isnt connected to anything either,, these things are separate time spaces with much more condensed flow of time,,, not out of it.

normal zeno is more than enough.

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VarricPatermann

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#238  Edited By VarricPatermann

@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@lilgodperv said:

@varricpatermann: can zindabad view all alternate universes or timeline?

Sinbad exist beyond those. As a god he exist inside of the the Sacred Palace, a room which works more like a sandbox game. He destroyed and rewrite a god with his world that already exist beyond time and space. Ill Illah is more comparable to Zeno, based on the existence, but for Sinbad Ill Illah was only a jellyfish inside of a aquarium.

Sindbad is compared to the other gods weak, the Sacred Palace has countless layers of higher dimensional levels. The worlds in magi are "universes", the universes in Magi are multiverses, based on the construct that every world consist whole galaxies and a space-time continuum.

He can rewrite Zeno like he did with Ill Illah before.

there are not many worlds in magi and the universes are not multiverses either

And Zeno only rules above 12 universes within one timeline. That isn´t multiversal either, since it is finite in size.

The magiverse itself has countless of worlds. The universe(s) itself has more then one space timecontinuum, which makes them more to a multiverse then Zeno his 12 universes with one timeline.

I wouldn´t say that Sinbad can destroy a multiverse, but against Zeno that isn´t even relevant since Zeno has nothing that put him on a multiversal durability. Sinbad on the other hand is multiversal just by existing inside of the palace.

And that was only based above that level what Sinbad can rule. Sinbad is compared to the other gods fodder.

multidimensional level doesnt matter when you cant even kill country level characters (David vs Aladdin and co.)

Sinbad already destroyed a universe with a multi-universal god, so what is the point? The same god Zeno can´t harm, since he can´t affect the Sacred Palace.

He doesnt have the power to do that to zeno. David-illah was merely universal (like Zamasu tier universal).

Ill Illah was the god of Alma Toran and even then he create another world. He is above the universal level. Also David > Sinbad.

Zamasu by himself was bound by the timeline, but Ill Illah his true self exist in the Sacred Palace.

The dragon ball universes contain more dimensions the size of universe.

Hmm… based on what?

Also let´s say they have dimensions with a universal size, it wouldn´t change much. More universe is only more space/Volumen.

Zeno would be able to affect the sacred palace

How?

We know that time flows in the SP as well its no different from Room of Spirit and Time where Goku trains literally right now in the manga with Merus...

How is it inside of time if the lower worlds already have space-time continuums. The palace isn´t connected to those worlds in that point that everyone could go in their like they wish. The palace is more a control room full with different worlds and alternative stories. The regular world is just a book like Aladdin has shown, when he read about different storylines with Morgiana and the others. Even for the host of the SP, Sinbad was only a character inside of his own story. David inside of this room also has shown in the fight against Sinbad, that he is an abstract eternity. The palace is a complex world that exist outside of time and space, also outside of the stories from Magi.

Someone who can create a space-time continuum like Ill-Illah exist on the same plane like Zeno did, with the difference that Zeno has more Universes that he rules.

Maybe Xeno Zeno would be a better match, from what i heard about this guy.

the map of the db 7th universe with heaven etc all size of universe

Based on what for statements?

even jiren shake world of void which is infinite and out of universes... space...

Shake a 3-D void, without effect them. He didn´t break through this space.

room of spirit and time isnt connected to anything either,, these things are separate time spaces with much more condensed flow of time,,, not out of it.

Then it would still exist, when Zeno destroy the timeline, right?
But what has the room of spirit and time too do with the Sacred Palace? Where did you get that, that a timeflow exist in this?

Also from what i remember the room of spirit and time is only a dimension with a time dilation. It is a seperate dimension but bound by the same timeline. Even Boo and Gotenks could break trough this dimension, only with his physical force. That wouldn´t happend, if this would be a different space-time continuum, because by that logic every DB Charakter who was later stronger then both, can just break trough the space-time continuum with his scream.

normal zeno is more than enough.

Zeno destroyed the timeline within the universes. After that he exist in nothing, but he can´t reach a higher place from that point. He couldn´t even travel in another space-time continuum without help. From his position there was only one time space continuum. From the Sacred Palace you have different worlds and different stories. Those stories are books, which is an reference point that the sacred palace is a higher dimensional place. Even in the fight between David and Sinbad (Supportet by Ugo) there are 3-4 references, for example that Sinbad was only Paper for David in one situation, or David try to manipulate the world from a control board, etc.

Zeno and David exist in different diagonal dimensions, he couldn´t even interact with Sinbad from the SP. He hasn´t the feats nor the statements to interact with a character like Sinbad. He can destroy an Avatar of Sinbad, if he tries to invade his plane, but from the Sacred Palace, there is no way. At least not yet.

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@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@lilgodperv said:

@varricpatermann: can zindabad view all alternate universes or timeline?

Sinbad exist beyond those. As a god he exist inside of the the Sacred Palace, a room which works more like a sandbox game. He destroyed and rewrite a god with his world that already exist beyond time and space. Ill Illah is more comparable to Zeno, based on the existence, but for Sinbad Ill Illah was only a jellyfish inside of a aquarium.

Sindbad is compared to the other gods weak, the Sacred Palace has countless layers of higher dimensional levels. The worlds in magi are "universes", the universes in Magi are multiverses, based on the construct that every world consist whole galaxies and a space-time continuum.

He can rewrite Zeno like he did with Ill Illah before.

there are not many worlds in magi and the universes are not multiverses either

And Zeno only rules above 12 universes within one timeline. That isn´t multiversal either, since it is finite in size.

The magiverse itself has countless of worlds. The universe(s) itself has more then one space timecontinuum, which makes them more to a multiverse then Zeno his 12 universes with one timeline.

I wouldn´t say that Sinbad can destroy a multiverse, but against Zeno that isn´t even relevant since Zeno has nothing that put him on a multiversal durability. Sinbad on the other hand is multiversal just by existing inside of the palace.

And that was only based above that level what Sinbad can rule. Sinbad is compared to the other gods fodder.

multidimensional level doesnt matter when you cant even kill country level characters (David vs Aladdin and co.)

Sinbad already destroyed a universe with a multi-universal god, so what is the point? The same god Zeno can´t harm, since he can´t affect the Sacred Palace.

He doesnt have the power to do that to zeno. David-illah was merely universal (like Zamasu tier universal).

Ill Illah was the god of Alma Toran and even then he create another world. He is above the universal level. Also David > Sinbad.

Zamasu by himself was bound by the timeline, but Ill Illah his true self exist in the Sacred Palace.

The dragon ball universes contain more dimensions the size of universe.

Hmm… based on what?

Also let´s say they have dimensions with a universal size, it wouldn´t change much. More universe is only more space/Volumen.

Zeno would be able to affect the sacred palace

How?

We know that time flows in the SP as well its no different from Room of Spirit and Time where Goku trains literally right now in the manga with Merus...

How is it inside of time if the lower worlds already have space-time continuums. The palace isn´t connected to those worlds in that point that everyone could go in their like they wish. The palace is more a control room full with different worlds and alternative stories. The regular world is just a book like Aladdin has shown, when he read about different storylines with Morgiana and the others. Even for the host of the SP, Sinbad was only a character inside of his own story. David inside of this room also has shown in the fight against Sinbad, that he is an abstract eternity. The palace is a complex world that exist outside of time and space, also outside of the stories from Magi.

Someone who can create a space-time continuum like Ill-Illah exist on the same plane like Zeno did, with the difference that Zeno has more Universes that he rules.

Maybe Xeno Zeno would be a better match, from what i heard about this guy.

the map of the db 7th universe with heaven etc all size of universe

Based on what for statements?

even jiren shake world of void which is infinite and out of universes... space...

Shake a 3-D void, without effect them. He didn´t break through this space.

room of spirit and time isnt connected to anything either,, these things are separate time spaces with much more condensed flow of time,,, not out of it.

Then it would still exist, when Zeno destroy the timeline, right?
But what has the room of spirit and time too do with the Sacred Palace? Where did you get that, that a timeflow exist in this?

Also from what i remember the room of spirit and time is only a dimension with a time dilation. It is a seperate dimension but bound by the same timeline. Even Boo and Gotenks could break trough this dimension, only with his physical force. That wouldn´t happend, if this would be a different space-time continuum, because by that logic every DB Charakter who was later stronger then both, can just break trough the space-time continuum with his scream.

normal zeno is more than enough.

Zeno destroyed the timeline within the universes. After that he exist in nothing, but he can´t reach a higher place from that point. He couldn´t even travel in another space-time continuum without help. From his position there was only one time space continuum. From the Sacred Palace you have different worlds and different stories. Those stories are books, which is an reference point that the sacred palace is a higher dimensional place. Even in the fight between David and Sinbad (Supportet by Ugo) there are 3-4 references, for example that Sinbad was only Paper for David in one situation, or David try to manipulate the world from a control board, etc.

Zeno and David exist in different diagonal dimensions, he couldn´t even interact with Sinbad from the SP. He hasn´t the feats nor the statements to interact with a character like Sinbad. He can destroy an Avatar of Sinbad, if he tries to invade his plane, but from the Sacred Palace, there is no way. At least not yet.

now i know you just wank magi. ugo literally state how much time he'd spent there like multiple times.. the SP is just a different timespace. different timespaces arent anything new for DB

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VarricPatermann

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@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@lilgodperv said:

@varricpatermann: can zindabad view all alternate universes or timeline?

Sinbad exist beyond those. As a god he exist inside of the the Sacred Palace, a room which works more like a sandbox game. He destroyed and rewrite a god with his world that already exist beyond time and space. Ill Illah is more comparable to Zeno, based on the existence, but for Sinbad Ill Illah was only a jellyfish inside of a aquarium.

Sindbad is compared to the other gods weak, the Sacred Palace has countless layers of higher dimensional levels. The worlds in magi are "universes", the universes in Magi are multiverses, based on the construct that every world consist whole galaxies and a space-time continuum.

He can rewrite Zeno like he did with Ill Illah before.

there are not many worlds in magi and the universes are not multiverses either

And Zeno only rules above 12 universes within one timeline. That isn´t multiversal either, since it is finite in size.

The magiverse itself has countless of worlds. The universe(s) itself has more then one space timecontinuum, which makes them more to a multiverse then Zeno his 12 universes with one timeline.

I wouldn´t say that Sinbad can destroy a multiverse, but against Zeno that isn´t even relevant since Zeno has nothing that put him on a multiversal durability. Sinbad on the other hand is multiversal just by existing inside of the palace.

And that was only based above that level what Sinbad can rule. Sinbad is compared to the other gods fodder.

multidimensional level doesnt matter when you cant even kill country level characters (David vs Aladdin and co.)

Sinbad already destroyed a universe with a multi-universal god, so what is the point? The same god Zeno can´t harm, since he can´t affect the Sacred Palace.

He doesnt have the power to do that to zeno. David-illah was merely universal (like Zamasu tier universal).

Ill Illah was the god of Alma Toran and even then he create another world. He is above the universal level. Also David > Sinbad.

Zamasu by himself was bound by the timeline, but Ill Illah his true self exist in the Sacred Palace.

The dragon ball universes contain more dimensions the size of universe.

Hmm… based on what?

Also let´s say they have dimensions with a universal size, it wouldn´t change much. More universe is only more space/Volumen.

Zeno would be able to affect the sacred palace

How?

We know that time flows in the SP as well its no different from Room of Spirit and Time where Goku trains literally right now in the manga with Merus...

How is it inside of time if the lower worlds already have space-time continuums. The palace isn´t connected to those worlds in that point that everyone could go in their like they wish. The palace is more a control room full with different worlds and alternative stories. The regular world is just a book like Aladdin has shown, when he read about different storylines with Morgiana and the others. Even for the host of the SP, Sinbad was only a character inside of his own story. David inside of this room also has shown in the fight against Sinbad, that he is an abstract eternity. The palace is a complex world that exist outside of time and space, also outside of the stories from Magi.

Someone who can create a space-time continuum like Ill-Illah exist on the same plane like Zeno did, with the difference that Zeno has more Universes that he rules.

Maybe Xeno Zeno would be a better match, from what i heard about this guy.

the map of the db 7th universe with heaven etc all size of universe

Based on what for statements?

even jiren shake world of void which is infinite and out of universes... space...

Shake a 3-D void, without effect them. He didn´t break through this space.

room of spirit and time isnt connected to anything either,, these things are separate time spaces with much more condensed flow of time,,, not out of it.

Then it would still exist, when Zeno destroy the timeline, right?
But what has the room of spirit and time too do with the Sacred Palace? Where did you get that, that a timeflow exist in this?

Also from what i remember the room of spirit and time is only a dimension with a time dilation. It is a seperate dimension but bound by the same timeline. Even Boo and Gotenks could break trough this dimension, only with his physical force. That wouldn´t happend, if this would be a different space-time continuum, because by that logic every DB Charakter who was later stronger then both, can just break trough the space-time continuum with his scream.

normal zeno is more than enough.

Zeno destroyed the timeline within the universes. After that he exist in nothing, but he can´t reach a higher place from that point. He couldn´t even travel in another space-time continuum without help. From his position there was only one time space continuum. From the Sacred Palace you have different worlds and different stories. Those stories are books, which is an reference point that the sacred palace is a higher dimensional place. Even in the fight between David and Sinbad (Supportet by Ugo) there are 3-4 references, for example that Sinbad was only Paper for David in one situation, or David try to manipulate the world from a control board, etc.

Zeno and David exist in different diagonal dimensions, he couldn´t even interact with Sinbad from the SP. He hasn´t the feats nor the statements to interact with a character like Sinbad. He can destroy an Avatar of Sinbad, if he tries to invade his plane, but from the Sacred Palace, there is no way. At least not yet.

now i know you just wank magi. ugo literally state how much time he'd spent there like multiple times..

Like he spend very often "his" time in the Sacred Palace. But if you know some statements like that, you also should know that he spend his time outside/inside of the regular Magi worlds like Alma Toran as well. He spend "his" time in those worlds, that doesn´t mean there is time in the SP. Ugo itself has his age, even other gods are created a long time ago.

the SP is just a different timespace. different timespaces arent anything new for DB

And DB characters still needs a time machine to travel between different timespaces (They even need a time machine to travel inside of their own timeline). As i said before, if they can broke trough different timespace continuums, then why they need a time machine in DBS? Even Zeno can´t travel or affect another space-time continuum.

I asked again, was the room destroyed with the universe?

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@ymirgod said:

Zeno would win.

Zeno has no feats to keep up with beings like Sinbad before, does he get new feats to back that up?

Sinbad scales from ill illah universe creation but other than that his DC isn't multiversal in same manner as Zeno's is.

All debated here in this thread before: Sinbad scales above Ill Illah and his universe creation. He destroyed Ill Illah and his universe with one move and rewrote the whole world. That was a casual move.

No Caption Provided

Now remember when Zeno destroyed a space-time continuum. He needs a lot of more time then that.

Zeno can also go out of universes (world of void).

Sinbad can go outside the whole space-time continuum and inside of a god domain. A Domain who alternative stories exist:

No Caption Provided

A Domain where multi-universal Gods are only pets in a aquarium:

No Caption Provided

A Domain where more powerful Gods are only part of the story from more powerful gods:

No Caption Provided

DC wise Zeno has better feat...

Well, Zeno destroyed 12 universes within a timeline. Sinbad destroyed a universe (space-time continuum) as well with a god who creates more then one universes.

You can destroy 12 or 10000 universes, that wouldn´t change anything. Relevant is more if they can affect a space time continuum and both did this. The different here is that Zeno exist outside of one space-time continuum, when Sinbad/David inside of a cheat room.
Zeno at best is a stronger version of Ill Illah.

You have 12 universes (Therefore 18) inside of one timeline. Every timeline has a Zeno, which means he is bound by the one and only timeline. He can destroy the time, but he can´t interact with other timelines or the past or future.

The Magi Gods and people who became the power can even travel between different space-time continuums without time machine. Zeno is bound by his "world", but Sinbad isn´t:

No Caption Provided

The SP exist outside of all this space-time continuums.

In Magi you have a unknown number of worlds. A "low-ordered" world already is a universe in magi with a space-time continuum.

No Caption Provided

And before people now thing this is only a solar system sized dimension like in Naruto with Kaguya, nope:

No Caption Provided

A world is also build by this:

No Caption Provided

The Magi "universe" from the point of the SP has countless worlds with two different axis of dimensions. Parallel dimensions and higher conceptual dimensions.

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

The universe itself also has countless dimensional layers, where one god has the power over this world. David couldn´t even reach those worlds.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

So we have countless worlds with different space-time continuums, who are connected to parallel dimensions and higher conceptual worlds against a world with 12 universes with 1 space-time continuum. The palace exist outside of all them, it exist above a regular multiverse several times. Zeno is far below that level and world end in the Sacred Palace more like Ill Illah in the aquarium:

No Caption Provided

A fight between Sinbad and Zeno is more Like David against Sinbad, but David in this fight is Sinbad and Sinbad is Zeno:

No Caption Provided

Zeno can´t harm abstract beings, but a higher ordered god can do with Zeno whatever he want, as long no Magi God like Ugo try to help Zeno like he did in the fight Sinbad vs David:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

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#242  Edited By Ymirgod

Funny how those are all theories that no magi character can actually confirm are true. Those aren't confirmed part of the verse.

Zeno can also go out of the universe (world of void) and destroy universes with more than one universe sized space....

Universal level hasn't been impressive for a long time in DB. Zeno just lifts his arm to erase a universe and when he erases universes all the characters that exist as part of that universe also get erase even if they were out of the universe in the world of void, even Jiren who surpasses time.

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#243 Tyki_Mikk25  Online

@caocao said:

Sinbad spitestomps. Why is this even debatable after 5 pages?

Because one tard who wanking Naruto, start to wank Dragonball aswell right now...

Sinbad spitestomps, the wank of Naruto wasn´t already funny and for Zeno it still not funny.

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Zeno is nothing more than a page for Sinbad.

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@ymirgod said:

Funny how those are all theories that no magi character can actually confirm are true. Those aren't confirmed part of the verse.

What from the the "theories" are not part of the verse? We have anything on panel, like Cao Cao postet above. Now it is on you to understand the construct of the Magi verse.

You are the one who brings up the fanfiction about the room of spirit and time, even if we know that this dimension has only a time dilation. Dragonball has parallel dimensions, but they are all connected, which means they only add a different space and not time. The proof was given, when Boo and Gotenks broke through a worm hole in the other dimension. The same also happend later, when Gogeta fight against Broly. They fight trough different dimensions, but none of them has the proof that they have different space-time continuums. Even Zeno didn´t talk about a plural of space-time continuums, since he only rules above 12 (Therefore 18) universes with one Space-Time continuum.

Zeno can also go out of the universe (world of void) and destroy universes with more than one universe sized space....

Yes, he can go outside of the universe(s). He has at least 12 from this. He also can destroy the timeline, which includes those 12 universes. After this he exist in the nothingness.

Sinbad destroyed a space-time continuum and his god on panel, and overwrote it. He still exist in another world, he can do this outside of the other spacetime continuum.

Universal level hasn't been impressive for a long time in DB. Zeno just lifts his arm to erase a universe and when he erases universes all the characters that exist as part of that universe also get erase even if they were out of the universe in the world of void, even Jiren who surpasses time.

First: Sinbad only crushed the universe with his god. He doesen´t need to lift his arms to destroy it. It was only one hand gesture.

Second: Which theory do you want to adhere to?

Jiren uses his time ability in the world of void, which means time exist there(I am just using your logic here) That means Zeno only exist outside of space, but not outside of time. He can destroy the timeline but then exist only in a empty void. To exist in the the SP he has to exist outside of this nothingness, which was before a space-time continuum.

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sinbad stomps everyone in the DBZ verse with low diff.

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@ymirgod said:

Funny how those are all theories that no magi character can actually confirm are true. Those aren't confirmed part of the verse.

What from the the "theories" are not part of the verse? We have anything on panel, like Cao Cao postet above. Now it is on you to understand the construct of the Magi verse.

You are the one who brings up the fanfiction about the room of spirit and time, even if we know that this dimension has only a time dilation. Dragonball has parallel dimensions, but they are all connected, which means they only add a different space and not time. The proof was given, when Boo and Gotenks broke through a worm hole in the other dimension. The same also happend later, when Gogeta fight against Broly. They fight trough different dimensions, but none of them has the proof that they have different space-time continuums. Even Zeno didn´t talk about a plural of space-time continuums, since he only rules above 12 (Therefore 18) universes with one Space-Time continuum.

Zeno can also go out of the universe (world of void) and destroy universes with more than one universe sized space....

Yes, he can go outside of the universe(s). He has at least 12 from this. He also can destroy the timeline, which includes those 12 universes. After this he exist in the nothingness.

Sinbad destroyed a space-time continuum and his god on panel, and overwrote it. He still exist in another world, he can do this outside of the other spacetime continuum.

Universal level hasn't been impressive for a long time in DB. Zeno just lifts his arm to erase a universe and when he erases universes all the characters that exist as part of that universe also get erase even if they were out of the universe in the world of void, even Jiren who surpasses time.

First: Sinbad only crushed the universe with his god. He doesen´t need to lift his arms to destroy it. It was only one hand gesture.

Second: Which theory do you want to adhere to?

Jiren uses his time ability in the world of void, which means time exist there(I am just using your logic here) That means Zeno only exist outside of space, but not outside of time. He can destroy the timeline but then exist only in a empty void. To exist in the the SP he has to exist outside of this nothingness, which was before a space-time continuum.

Those r theories im sorry.

ROSAT is another space entirely with a different flow of time... separate space.. different flow of time.. thats an entirely different spacetime... just because there are different dimensions doesnt make them entirely different spacetimes as the flow of time is usually exactly the same... ROSAT in DB, Precipice World and Yukios dimensions in Bleach, Sacred Palace in Magi, Purgatory in NnT are different spacetimes cuz the flow of time differentiates in those.

heaven universe sized exist in the map

zeno can destroy universes like that.

No, you're doing downplaying for Jiren. The fact that they can exist in world of void is interesting but using a time ability on Jiren and him surpassing it confirms 100% he's beyond time (along with statements)

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@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:

Funny how those are all theories that no magi character can actually confirm are true. Those aren't confirmed part of the verse.

What from the the "theories" are not part of the verse? We have anything on panel, like Cao Cao postet above. Now it is on you to understand the construct of the Magi verse.

You are the one who brings up the fanfiction about the room of spirit and time, even if we know that this dimension has only a time dilation. Dragonball has parallel dimensions, but they are all connected, which means they only add a different space and not time. The proof was given, when Boo and Gotenks broke through a worm hole in the other dimension. The same also happend later, when Gogeta fight against Broly. They fight trough different dimensions, but none of them has the proof that they have different space-time continuums. Even Zeno didn´t talk about a plural of space-time continuums, since he only rules above 12 (Therefore 18) universes with one Space-Time continuum.

Zeno can also go out of the universe (world of void) and destroy universes with more than one universe sized space....

Yes, he can go outside of the universe(s). He has at least 12 from this. He also can destroy the timeline, which includes those 12 universes. After this he exist in the nothingness.

Sinbad destroyed a space-time continuum and his god on panel, and overwrote it. He still exist in another world, he can do this outside of the other spacetime continuum.

Universal level hasn't been impressive for a long time in DB. Zeno just lifts his arm to erase a universe and when he erases universes all the characters that exist as part of that universe also get erase even if they were out of the universe in the world of void, even Jiren who surpasses time.

First: Sinbad only crushed the universe with his god. He doesen´t need to lift his arms to destroy it. It was only one hand gesture.

Second: Which theory do you want to adhere to?

Jiren uses his time ability in the world of void, which means time exist there(I am just using your logic here) That means Zeno only exist outside of space, but not outside of time. He can destroy the timeline but then exist only in a empty void. To exist in the the SP he has to exist outside of this nothingness, which was before a space-time continuum.

Those r theories im sorry.

Based on what?

ROSAT is another space entirely with a different flow of time... separate space.. different flow of time.. thats an entirely different spacetime... just because there are different dimensions doesnt make them entirely different spacetimes as the flow of time is usually exactly the same... ROSAT in DB, Precipice World and Yukios dimensions in Bleach, Sacred Palace in Magi, Purgatory in NnT are different spacetimes cuz the flow of time differentiates in those.

Ok, then you probably have statements that back up this? Because the feats talks otherwise (Gotenks and Boo break trough the dimension, inside of the other dimension) Even on the Wiki i didn´t found anything relevant which support your statement. I found nothing that say the space-time continuum is different. You have a hyperbolic timechamber, where the timeflow is moving realy slow.

heaven universe sized exist in the map

Which map? I hope you don´t talk about this:

No Caption Provided

zeno can destroy universes like that.

Yes, but as i said before: It doesn´t matter how big the universe is. Let´s say the universe of DB has the 3x size of our universe it is still just space/range with one space-time continuum. You can have 1000 or infinite space, you affect still 3-dimensional. You destroy the timeline you affect "one" timeline. Zeno exist within the timeline, but he can life without it. After he destroyed the Timeline there was nothing. There wasn´t a higher place beyond time and space.

No, you're doing downplaying for Jiren. The fact that they can exist in world of void is interesting but using a time ability on Jiren and him surpassing it confirms 100% he's beyond time (along with statements)

Jiren isn´t beyond time, since Hit isn´t beyond time either. He use an ability that allowed Hit to skip short time instances, or catch Jiren inside of it. But that has no affect on the space-time continuum itself. It is more comparable with the Timemanipulation from Dimaria from Fairy Tail or Gaspar Vladi von Highschool DxD. Even Guldo his time manipulation should be more effective by function, then the time manipulation of Hit. But we know that Hit would blitz him, before he can do anything, lol.

Also Jiren breaks trough Hit his timecage, that doesn´t makes him surpassing time. By that logic physical Hulk is beyond time, since he broke time with his fist. They using their force to break through the time-manipulation for a short time. They are still 3-D with an ability that can affect 4-D at best.

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@ymirgod said:
@varricpatermann said:
@ymirgod said:

Funny how those are all theories that no magi character can actually confirm are true. Those aren't confirmed part of the verse.

What from the the "theories" are not part of the verse? We have anything on panel, like Cao Cao postet above. Now it is on you to understand the construct of the Magi verse.

You are the one who brings up the fanfiction about the room of spirit and time, even if we know that this dimension has only a time dilation. Dragonball has parallel dimensions, but they are all connected, which means they only add a different space and not time. The proof was given, when Boo and Gotenks broke through a worm hole in the other dimension. The same also happend later, when Gogeta fight against Broly. They fight trough different dimensions, but none of them has the proof that they have different space-time continuums. Even Zeno didn´t talk about a plural of space-time continuums, since he only rules above 12 (Therefore 18) universes with one Space-Time continuum.

Zeno can also go out of the universe (world of void) and destroy universes with more than one universe sized space....

Yes, he can go outside of the universe(s). He has at least 12 from this. He also can destroy the timeline, which includes those 12 universes. After this he exist in the nothingness.

Sinbad destroyed a space-time continuum and his god on panel, and overwrote it. He still exist in another world, he can do this outside of the other spacetime continuum.

Universal level hasn't been impressive for a long time in DB. Zeno just lifts his arm to erase a universe and when he erases universes all the characters that exist as part of that universe also get erase even if they were out of the universe in the world of void, even Jiren who surpasses time.

First: Sinbad only crushed the universe with his god. He doesen´t need to lift his arms to destroy it. It was only one hand gesture.

Second: Which theory do you want to adhere to?

Jiren uses his time ability in the world of void, which means time exist there(I am just using your logic here) That means Zeno only exist outside of space, but not outside of time. He can destroy the timeline but then exist only in a empty void. To exist in the the SP he has to exist outside of this nothingness, which was before a space-time continuum.

Those r theories im sorry.

Sorry, but did you even read Magi? Because they explain they explain the structure of this world on panel. We have countless time-spaces (Which are universes and pocket dimensions) and we have the Sacred Palace which exist beyond them. That is at least one dimensional level above Zeno. The DB Verse can have infinite Universes, they still only have one timeline and Zeno (After he destroying the timeline) exist in this empty world, not above this world.

ROSAT is another space entirely with a different flow of time...

Different space means another universe, or a different space inside of the universe? Because there isn´t even a statement to back up this. It is a dimension inside of Universe 7, Boo (Like Varric said) has shown that they are in the same universe, when he broke trough the dimension in the other.

Unless we have something that has shown, that they can move between different spaces (universes), we can only speculate.

separate space.. different flow of time.. thats an entirely different spacetime...

Sorry, but that isn´t, unless it was stated. From this point we only have a hyperbolic time chamber, where the flow of time is very slow. It is not another space-time continuum, it is more a space-time curvature. One year in this room is one hour in the world. They are also abilities like time magic, which can more explain that extra time can be create. For example Hit his time ability. It is more comparable to a space-time curvature, then with a complete manipulation of the space-time axis.

We know time in this room moves very slow, but we don´t know if this is a different time-space.

just because there are different dimensions doesnt make them entirely different spacetimes as the flow of time is usually exactly the same...

There is a difference between pocket dimensions and different time-spaces. Pocket Dimensions are often connected to the universe within the same timeline. If the universe is destroyed, then the dimenions are destroyed too. That won´t happend when they are different space-time continuums, since they aren´t "inside" of a universe. Of course they are fiction where they have more then one space-time continuum inside of the universe, but here is the point of aspect relevant. Zeno destroyed the timeline inside of the timeline. Sinbad destroyed another space-time continuum from a different world.

The SP is not a parallel universe, nor inside of a space-time continuum. It is a higher dimensional plane. In Dragonball you don´t have a higher dimensional plane.

ROSAT in DB, Precipice World and Yukios dimensions in Bleach, Sacred Palace in Magi, Purgatory in NnT are different spacetimes cuz the flow of time differentiates in those.

Mostly are pocket dimensions without proof that they exist outside of the universe and outside of time. You need the context and the structure of the verse. Also as i said, Time is not relevant in the SP, since it exist outside of the Magi worlds.

heaven universe sized exist in the map

If you talk about the map which was shown by Varric, then you can see the Snakepath, which is only 1 millions km long, but the half of the universe. I don´t think you will say the universe in DB is by that 2 million kilometers in diameter, because that happend, when we using here an 1:1 calculation.

zeno can destroy universes like that.

Not impressive anymore, when you opponent can destroy a space-time continuum as well.

No, you're doing downplaying for Jiren. The fact that they can exist in world of void is interesting but using a time ability on Jiren and him surpassing it confirms 100% he's beyond time (along with statements)

It is not interesting. When Hit can use timemagic in the world of void can that explain two things:

- The world of void has a space-time continuum

Which means, the world of void isn´t a higher dimension then the regular universes.

- Hit his time-ability is pseudo time manipulation like we know often from other fiction. He can use time-manipulation in a place when time doesn´t exist?

Which means, Jiren didn´t break trough time and space, only trough Hit his ability.

You can chose between both.

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Tyki_Mikk25

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#250 Tyki_Mikk25  Online

@caocao:

Boy this wank really need to stop of these fanboys, what is the next, Zeno beating Demonbane??

The dude think Bleach and Naruto beeing above planet lvl and matching other top class verse is already ridiculous, in this thread he now wank Zeno into a another lvl.

Sinbad stomps!