Zen’ō vs Sinbad

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kasya_carey

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EcoBlitz

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@kasya_carey: Zeno is nothing close to multiversal. His best feat is wiping away universes 1 by 1.

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kasya_carey

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@ecoblitz: yeah that was the point in the tournament. What about the other universes he got mad and erased?

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deactivated-5b728068f211c

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@ecoblitz said:

@kasya_carey: Zeno is nothing close to multiversal. His best feat is wiping away universes 1 by 1.

Actually, in the manga he wiped out a timeline, which includes other universes( i might be wrong on this one though, thats why he had no place to go, or something like that lol)

OT: Well, if Sinbad is FTL and has the damage required to beat Zeno then i'd say he takes it.

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EcoBlitz

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EcoBlitz

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@death2heretics: I don’t think he wiped them out but that’s just me. He destroyed 12 normal universes, Sinbad is far above him existing in a much higher dimension and can causally squish Il illyah and the universe he’s creating like trash while explaining something without even paying full attention

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deactivated-5b728068f211c

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@ecoblitz said:

@death2heretics: I don’t think he wiped them out but that’s just me.

Eh, i guess its debatable.

He destroyed 12 normal universes, Sinbad is far above him existing in a much higher dimension and can causally squish Il illyah and the universe he’s creating like trash while explaining something without even paying full attention

Well, as i said in my previous comment, if he has the DC required to kill Zeno, and is FTL i think he takes it tbh, Zeno has shit reactions and no durability feats at all, unless you consider his attack an energy blast rather than a more op Hakai.

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EcoBlitz

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@death2heretics: It is.

Even if it was an energy attack there is 0 proof he is

1. Affected by his own attacks.

2. said attack actually hit him.

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kasya_carey

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@ecoblitz: he wiped out a timeline not even at full power. That’s universal + to multiversal.

Casually squishing a universal character is nothing when Zenos can casually destroy a universe with a flick of his fingers.

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EcoBlitz

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@kasya_carey: What do you mean not even at full power? How do you know his ability requires more facial muscles or more straining? It’s 1 attack that comes from his hand. There is 0 proof him screaming more increases it DC or potency.

He is not multiversal for the love of God. Multiversal is an infinite amount of universes. He destroyed literally only 12. How is that multiversal?

Okay and? Sinbad did that while in human form away from the palace. He’s also greater than Ugo who is powerful enough to casually relegate Is illyah and elder David to a fish tank and they aren’t able to do a thing about it. He’s also on a higher dimensional scale than Zeno can ever hope to be.

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kasya_carey

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@ecoblitz: https://youtu.be/iTIef3cRFVM no strain whatsoever here. He easily destroyed a timeline.

Umm what multiversal is literally multiple universes. DBS is a multiversal just like marvel and DC.

Okay cool? Zenos smiling and chilling can raise his hand and destroy a universe.

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EcoBlitz

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@kasya_carey: No. multiversal is an infinite number of universes. Multi-universal is multiple universes. Literally an infinite amount in difference.

No dbs isn’t a multiverse like marvel and DC.

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TheDeathstar

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#163  Edited By TheDeathstar

@ecoblitz said:

@kasya_carey: No. multiversal is an infinite number of universes. Multi-universal is multiple universes. Literally an infinite amount in difference.

No dbs isn’t a multiverse like marvel and DC.

DC doesn't have infinite Universes, New 52 is a proof of that and it was never mentioned, Anti Monitor mentioned it as countless Universes not infinite that's a hyperbole by Crisis on Infinite Earths. This age only has 52 Universes if am correct.

Dragon Ball has confirmed 7 timelines each consisting at least 12 Universes with multiple dimensions of the same size.

7*12= 84 Macrocosms.

Also, Zeno wiped out a timeline which consists of Multiple Universes, their past future etc in that timeline.

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kasya_carey

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#164  Edited By kasya_carey

@ecoblitz: that’s one half of the hypothesis. Some argue that its multiple universes.

Either way DBS has multiple universe and a bunch of timelines so definitely not just a multi-universe. Even Bulma said it was a multiverse.

DBS has 12 universes I think it was 18 before zenos got mad. It also has multiple timelines and dimensions. Wiping out just one timeline is universal + which is very close to multi-universal.

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deactivated-5ae6527167c26

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@kasya_carey: which is why 17s wish "bring back all the universes erased" means that he might bring back a more powerful universe.

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deactivated-5ae6527167c26

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Zeno spites, Sinbad is all wank

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CaoCao

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#167  Edited By CaoCao
@kasya_carey said:

@ecoblitz: that’s one half of the hypothesis. Some argue that its multiple universes.

Either way DBS has multiple universe and a bunch of timelines so definitely not just a multi-universe. Even Bulma said it was a multiverse.

Well, Dragonball is a Multiverse by the higher timelines, but Zeno isn´t "multiversal" He isn´t above the Multiverse, he is bound below higher Timelines, like the other Zeno in the other Timeline. Zeno can´t destroy more then one timeline, or why the Timeline of Goku still exist? Every Timeline has one Zeno. Is there one Zeno above all Timelines, he is multiversal being like Sinbad. In fact, he isn´t, so Sinbad curbstomps Zeno. It is a mismatch. You can btw. read the full debate on the other pages, even with scans. There is no way that Zeno has a chance, until we have more then his actual feats and statements.

I don´t even know why this is still debatable....

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Galactic_1000

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Zeno destroying Timeline is debatable.

And IDK sinbad

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omarlionvision

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@ecoblitz: destroying a timeline is multiversal... It consists of infinite universes. 1 second in the past, 1 nano second in the future and present are 3 different universes already, there is infinite time and so infinite universes.

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Zeno was stated as undefeatable by characters such as whis

So far shown as undefeatable, if zeno really did have no durability, it would be stupid for someone like beerus, grand priest or even frieza to not attack and reign over them, something must be the case.

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CaoCao

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Zeno was stated as undefeatable by characters such as whis

So far shown as undefeatable, if zeno really did have no durability, it would be stupid for someone like beerus, grand priest or even frieza to not attack and reign over them, something must be the case.

Well, "undefeatable" isn´t a guarantee and we can only goes with the known powers we already know about DBS.

We know that Zeno already has his Limits: He can´t follow the fight between two fighters and he can´t influence another timeline (There was another Zeno and Goku travels trough time to take him with him) Every Timeline has another Zeno, so he isn´t even above the full DBS-Multiverse. Maybe there is another higher God then Zeno ? Speculation by my side. Someone that rules above the higher concept in Dragonball?

I think, they have other reasons, why they don´t attack Zeno. We don´t know his full potential and Beerus said: He isn´t a fighter. Maybe he is immortal, but i.d.k. There are many theories about Zeno, but we don´t have much informations :D

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Galactic_1000

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@omarlionvision: Each timeline contain 12 Universes.

(We aren't ? sure that Zeno destroyed a Timeline)

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omarlionvision

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@galactic_1000: we are 100% sure because it was shown that the time ring was destroyed after zeno did his explosion thing

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kasya_carey

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@caocao: I stilll stand by what I say. Destroying a timeline is universal + to multi-universal and all he did was lift his hand. I’m pretty sure him fighting at full power is definitely multiversal.

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EcoBlitz

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@thedeathstar: Past of said timeline was Goku’s so no, He didn’t destroy the past. He destroyed the present of that timeline(which was the future for goku iirc)

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EcoBlitz

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@omarlionvision: it is not multiversal. By that logic parallax is multiversal because he destroyed 1 timeline gtfo with your BS

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@kasya_carey: proof there is more to his dc than just easing his hand?

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savythegawd

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@wafflecone72: sinbad is multiversal and exists outside of the multiverse so he has Immeasurable speed

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kasya_carey

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@ecoblitz: well that’s just about the only destruction power he has presented. He easily wipe away zamasu that became one with the universe and started to affect timelines. Zenos destroyed a multi-universal being in one shot.

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omarlionvision

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@ecoblitz: if parallax did destroy a timeline then he is multiversal

A timeline consists of infinite time, each bit of time being a separate universe.

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CaoCao

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@caocao: I stilll stand by what I say. Destroying a timeline is universal + to multi-universal and all he did was lift his hand. I’m pretty sure him fighting at full power is definitely multiversal.

I respect your oppinion, but we can´t go with "pretty sure" if we don´t have a better explaination.

Zeno isn´t even above the Dragonball-Multiverse. In every Point of the Timeline, anonther Zeno exist. If Zeno ist multiversal, why he don´t exist above the full or all timelines?

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kasya_carey

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#183  Edited By kasya_carey

@caocao: The Phoenix has multiversal feats and in every universe there’s a different version of the Phoenix.

Now all zenos did was lift his hand up was multi-universal. Next step from multi-universal is multiversal.

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#184  Edited By NWName

@omarlionvision: thats not how universe busting works. You can destroy a single moment and let causality do the rest. assuming that you can attack other moments, you can just destroy the beginning to retcon the universe out of existence

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Aristeaus

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@caocao said:

Zeno isn´t even above the Dragonball-Multiverse. In every Point of the Timeline, anonther Zeno exist. If Zeno ist multiversal, why he don´t exist above the full or all timelines?

That is a facile argument.

Time is a completely different thing then universes or realities.

The Goku Black Arc is described as a timeline, but essentially it is another reality. That is why killing Zamasu in the past did nothing. The whole timeline reality splinter thing has been described I dont even know how many times in comics and media.

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CaoCao

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@Aristeaus said:
@caocao said:

Zeno isn´t even above the Dragonball-Multiverse. In every Point of the Timeline, anonther Zeno exist. If Zeno ist multiversal, why he don´t exist above the full or all timelines?

That is a facile argument.

Time is a completely different thing then universes or realities.

The Goku Black Arc is described as a timeline, but essentially it is another reality. That is why killing Zamasu in the past did nothing. The whole timeline reality splinter thing has been described I dont even know how many times in comics and media.

Well, the Time-Space-Continuum(s) is/are relevant to decide, if the system is a multiverse or not. To be multiversal, you aren´t bound by the regular and the extra time-space-axis.

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EcoBlitz

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@omarlionvision: Except parallax isn’t multiversal. He doesn’t have feats of that level. All he did is destroy 1 timeline. All Zeno did is destroy 1 timeline that arguably had 12 universes hence multi-universal, not multiversal.

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CaoCao

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#189  Edited By CaoCao

@kasya_carey said:

@caocao: The Phoenix has multiversal feats and in every universe there’s a different version of the Phoenix.

Which pheonix we are talking about? :o

Now all zenos did was lift his hand up was multi-universal. Next step from multi-universal is multiversal.

The Multi-Universe as far below a Multiversal Construct. It doesen´t matter if you can destroy 10 Universes at the same time, or 100 Universes. It is more the Range then the Power, because by Multiverse you have Universes with more then one regular Space-Time-Axis.

100 Universes with the regular Time-Space-Axis < One Universe with the regular and a additional Time-Space Axis. Because with first, you need only the power and the range to destroy the 1000 Universes. With second you need the power to destroy a higherdimensional System.

Maybe i understand you wrong. What is a multiverse in your oppinion?

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omarlionvision

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@ecoblitz: a timeline consists of infinite universes

One universe which would be 1 nano second in the past from thee present

Another universe 3 minutes in the future etc.

Since you can't go back in time or in the future of future trunks' timeline, it means zeno destroyed all those future and past times for that reality of future trunks'

If parallax' timeline works the same as that theb the timeline destruction is multiversal

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Aristeaus

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@caocao said:

Well, the Time-Space-Continuum(s) is/are relevant to decide, if the system is a multiverse or not. To be multiversal, you aren´t bound by the regular and the extra time-space-axis.

Again, pretty much every example of a multiuniversal character has been bound by time. What you are describing is a entirely different term, one that is not used here. The term Multiuniversal has been around for years and is pretty well established.

And just for giggles....

Anything that exists outside of Time would, for all purposes here, not exist at all. No one would know who they are, or that they even exist. They would have no past or future, only the present ( their present ). You could not interact with them. You could not attribute any feats to them. You couldnt even perceive them. AFAIK, a character such as this has never been depicted in any work of fiction. Even the top being from each of the different mediums would not qualify under your logic. The reader of the medium could know they exist, but the second someone in universe does any of the above, they no longer qualify.

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CaoCao

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#192  Edited By CaoCao
@Aristeaus said:
@caocao said:

Well, the Time-Space-Continuum(s) is/are relevant to decide, if the system is a multiverse or not. To be multiversal, you aren´t bound by the regular and the extra time-space-axis.

Again, pretty much every example of a multiuniversal character has been bound by time. What you are describing is a entirely different term, one that is not used here. The term Multiuniversal has been around for years and is pretty well established.

Ehh.. i agreed with mult-iuniversal, but i talk about multiversal, higher multiversal, etc.

And just for giggles....

Anything that exists outside of Time would, for all purposes here, not exist at all. No one would know who they are, or that they even exist. They would have no past or future, only the present ( their present ). You could not interact with them. You could not attribute any feats to them. You couldnt even perceive them. AFAIK, a character such as this has never been depicted in any work of fiction. Even the top being from each of the different mediums would not qualify under your logic. The reader of the medium could know they exist, but the second someone in universe does any of the above, they no longer qualify.

That´s how higherdimensional beings work. Sure, there are many contradictions, but if Verses use the higherdimensional term, we can´t ignore them. So how should a fight work between a 3-D or 4-D Being against a 5-D Being? I agreed, if we take this serious, non of both sides can harm eachother. Otherwise the higherdimensional being is above the lowerdimensional being. With Sinbad we have a Charakter who works on a higherdimensional plane, see the pages before.

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kasya_carey

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#193  Edited By kasya_carey

@caocao: all because each universe and timeline has a Phoenix.

Zenos destroying 18 universes and dimensions is high end multi-universal. If he destroyed all the timelines that exist in the series I sure he would be multiversal. Not to mention the fact grand priest was able to warp the world of the void that had infinite space with one hand. Zenos way stronger than him.

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CaoCao

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#194  Edited By CaoCao

@kasya_carey said:

@caocao: all because each universe and timeline has a Phoenix.

Oh. ok.

Zenos destroying 18 universes and dimensions is high end multi-universal.

Agreed.

If he destroyed all the timelines that exist in the series I sure he would be multiversal.

If he destroyed all the timelines he will be for sure, but i wonder how many timelines exist in Dragonball.

Not to mention the fact grand priest was able to warp the world of the void that had infinite space with one hand. Zenos way stronger than him.

Correct, but a World of Void with infinite Space is still a 3-D Construct, because time doesen´t exist. It´s more many or infitinite Universes, but i don´t know how it will be handle without Space-Time-Continuum.

EDIT: Sinbad still solos the verse

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kasya_carey

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Bump

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Wanderez

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Mismatch indeed. Sinbad stomps the verse.

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FlirtyCorpse

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Complete and utter mismatch. Zeno is 2C, and Sinbad is is 2A. This is a complete and utter one-shot in Sinbad's favor. These two are not in the same league. Ill Illah is the one who is around Zeno's level, and he was being kept as a pet by a being of Sinbad's level. ATM, Magi absolutely shits on DBZ in terms of power.

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bjseitz1

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@elderelijah190: doesn't Sinbad have the power of always knowing how to win? So the real question is, how do you defeat someone who can't lose ever?

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Wanderez

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Sinbad absolutely destroys Zeno. Mismatch.

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TOPAZZZ

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Sinbad