Zen’ō vs Sinbad

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Tyki_Mikk25

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Zeno get destroyed... Sinbad is way above him with his hax ability and power... Zeno has only his Hakai but that is it... And still Hakai is Overrated and dont would kill any character who are above Zeno himself. Sinbad win this fight...

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ElderElijah190

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#102  Edited By ElderElijah190

@caocao: said:

Oh, ok. The process wasn´t completed? Possible, but Zamasu himself was already gone and he was at least one with the Concept of the Universe, or not? Well, by showing feats on a Universal Scale, Zeno has shown more. But only that he erased more then one Universe already and the Statement, that he erased 6 Universe on the same time. This Statement was part of the History, so it is official.

Yeah,basically this.

Sinbad in the whole Story has shown more feats, like his Magic, Reality Warp, he isn´t bound by Time and Space as he became God, he is immune against Curses,

Sound cute and OP

his Regeneration is on a godly niveau, he is immortal,

Zeno popped up a timeline alongside the soul of a being that merged with the universe and could also leak into other timelines (Basically an astral being) he also tanked said attack too. Not to mention regular god hakai can also erase immortal beings that have attained immortality.

and he write the Story of the World or better say: He writes the Plot in the universe(s) That is more that Zeno shown,

Pretty op,but that could only be applicable to his verse alone. Its not like he holds the plot to every fiction right? Also,i agree zeno doesn't operate on this scale but i don't think said feat is battle applicable to change the outcome of things here.

but by Power: Zeno erased 6 Universes on the same Time, Sinbad doesen´t. But if we take the Situation, then we know that Sinbad has the possibilities.

Its a thing of he might be able to if feats is concerned considering he carries none but logic wise,he could destroy them but i doubt he could give the perfect erasure zeno does though. Btw,zeno also erased a time ring in the manga housing 12 universe as i'd already stated above (not to forget a timeline also got the erasure treatment alongside said universes also ),basically a high end erasure feat if u ask me.

Not showing by feats, but by potencial. And this potencial is far above Zeno, becasue Zeno his Feats are very limitated.

How did u come up with this decision when sinbad hasn't shown any dc feat on zenos level.

Well, that is the problem: If he is a higherdimensional being, Zeno can´t erased him. )

He can actually,basically why it's existence erasure,his higher dimensional existence would basically be erased.

Except Zenos Power is on the same higherdimensional number, or higher. If he used his Power against Sinbad he would not hit him,

Zeno wont hit him though,he would just take away his existence,basically that. And i also don't understand u,zeno is basically the supreme god of his verse. Sinbads existence in his verse can't be imposed on another verse,they are both supreme being on a different scale via logic wise so sinbad being a higher dimensional being in his verse doesn't automatically mean he transcends zenos logic. A point to take note of.

because he doesen´t exist in the dimensional System like the other Guys who exist in Dragon Ball.

In a way,this sounds about right. Though,if looked from another perspective,it doesn't because what you could indirectly be stating here is fictional battle forum as a whole shouldn't be in existence itself. How right? basically because a tier that exist in a certain fiction can't get tagged by any other fictional feats from another verse as he doesn't exist in said fictions system so forum as a whole shouldn't be inplace. A summary of what your statement above could amount to.

Here is another Problem: Zeno doesen´t have a similar Gegner in Dragon Ball Super, so we only can speculated.

Didn't get your point here.

If only feats relevant,

i never disagreed sinbad couldn't be scaled via logic and statements here though. I only stated his supreme logic shouldn't be set in motion to belittle other verses supreme type of logic.

then even Naruto beats Azathoth,

Your point here is? its not like zeno is some folder character being held in high esteem here though,he's supreme in his verse that erases universes and the concept of existence itself so his feats logical wise should be considered to his opponent here,not outright downplayed. Naruto being brought up here is irrelevant as zeno isn't some folder tier with insane low level feats that is basically made to be supreme and above a tier that is way out of his league.

because he has shown more feats. Feats alone are only relevant, if the dimensional structure the same, or the enemy below this structure. That is what i mean some posts before.

I would reference this to what i just stated above.

There are fictional charakters, who are higherdimensional. No matter if he has feats or not:

I know because i never went against this. Me bringing up feats was because you were the one who stated he is high multiversal by feats.

If he is a higherdimensional being, then his opponend he is in the hierarchy of beings above him. The next question is, has the higherdimensional being some Powers on his own Level. That´s not ever given, so at least most of the matches ends in Stalemates by Logic. Now is the Question. Does have Sinbad the Power to destroy Zeno. I don´t think so, he never shown.

Basically this.

But, we don´t know much about Zeno´s Skills. But Sinbad is above Zeno by be a higher Existance.

Again what brought u to this conclusion,they are both supreme beings in each respective verses,you can't automatically deem one above another because you wish to by your own logic.

That is the reason, why i said that Zeno doesen´t have a chance.

Pardon but this is totally wrong considering the way you came up with the conclusion of him not standing a chance here.

He can´t understand Sinbad his Niveau, he can´t even touch it.

Zenos erasure doesn't have to do with touching or making contact with whatever he's up against,neither does he have to understand what he's up against to basically erase it. When he erased zamatsu,he had know idea zamatsu became astral and also altered the laws of physics by leaking into other timelines,he basically just found his laughter to be annoying and he erased whatever way zamatsu existed alongside a timeline despite his ignorance. Thats how his erasure works.

To be frank, it is hard to say who win, because both Universes are very different.

You are right to some extent here.

Dragon Ball is more a Verse where Power destroyes Hax

Zeno erasure can't be bypassed by power levels in dbs as beings who resist hakai erasure energy via power levels gets wiped out like folder from existence by zeno. His erasure isn't something you can overpower and struggle with,neither does he fire a hakai energy to begin with,you instantly stop existing. His erasure isn't something the god hakai despite being impressive on a large scale compare to. The average hakaishin energy is really op and impressive because a small amount of it could erase the physical and spiritual existence considering what sindra stated and hakai can also erase a being existence not just from a timeline but it also affects said existence at other timelines,said being exist at if scaled to beerus and zamatsu. Also,god toppo in depicted destruction form casual hakai energy while considering the rules of the top warped the WOV to high end degrees and caused a significant amount of destruction. Note,there are also forms in which hakai is displayed mate. Hakai could work as destruction,erasure and so on depending on said situation.

and even Hax most is a Destruction-Power

Already addressed this above

In Magi, there is more a Concept and many Statements.The Hax of Magi doesen´t get destroyed by raw Power like in Dragon Ball. There is more "Which Hax is better" Contest.

Dbz concept and statement is different from magi because they are different verses like you earlier stated and so they consider a logic of power levels of which said power levels is basically void to zeno in dbz itself like i earlier explained. Hakaishins hakai can be looked into,from different perspectives also. You can't just judge another verses logic which has nothing to do with zeno weighs less than another because they practically practice different logic from said both series. How one weighs more via how it is more depicted isn't something you can just come up with.

Yes, but that can only hit someone like Dark Schneider who exist on 3 Planes of existence and he is still a 3-D Charakter, because he exist in a 3-D/4-D System. Well, Zeno is the only guy who can erased him from Dragon Ball (And Tori-Bot), but those guys you can only complete erased if you erased the whole System.

Reading ahead

And the System in Magi is far higher, because Sinbad isn´t boundet by a Universe or multiple Time-Space Continuums.

Doesn't matter as his boundless self would seize to exist,basically how erasure works and how is zeno bounded to only universal? Anyway,still reading ahead.

He lost all this, as he entrance the Sacred place and became God.

All this won't matter as he would outright be erased from existence, he holds no means or scaling to bypass this. The way he exist wont matter as he would stop existing and if necessary,the sacred place as well will be erased.

You can see, it is different: Sinbad isn´t bounded by an Universe like the Gods of Destruction or Zamasu. He is above those System.

Still isn't changing the outcome of things here.

He is above this System like Zeno, but it is more that he is every Zeno on the different Timelines in one Person.

Has it ever being shown that timelines exist in the magi verse and if a prove comes in,it really doesn't matter as regular gods hakai can erase existence at other significant timelines,their said opponents exist at. This could be scaled to beerus and zamatsu. Check this out.....

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Here,we've zamatsu stating his existence was saved as a result of the timering he had on. Beerus original erasure on the him existing at the present timeline would have erased his existence here, at the future timeline if it wasn't for the timering he once again had on. There you go, regular hakai erasure affects timeline existence.

Not every Being that is a "Multiversal Charakter", means he can erased a Multiverse. He only exist on the higherdimensional Plane to be one with the Multiverse. That is for example what i hate on those Calc-Sides. They doesent´t make a difference between the Destructive Power and the dimensional Plane of the Charakters. Someone exist above infinite Timelines and Universes? So, he can destroyed it. That is no proof that he can, but it isn´t relevant in a fight. No one on a smaller dimensional scale can harm him, except there is a proof that the opponent have a higherdimensional power.

Pretty cool analysis here.

But Zeno doesen´t shown, he by himself exist only in the Timeline of 12 Universes.

still isn't changing the outcome of things here.

In the other Timeline, there are other Zeno´s. And as i said: Sinbad isn´t the higherst being in Magi. There countless Gods for every Universe and his different Timelines.

A single sinbad existence at other timelines won't change anything here as i have numerously proved above. Op never stated winner can only be decided by who succeeds in erasing tiers existence at present and other timelines though,imean by this logic,tiers can't be declared winners as their opponents existence in other timelines can't be declared. Yes,despite the fact that a single sinbad exist in timelines which could then be seen differently but trust me,it mostly certainly wont. Its basically an indirect scaling that could be related to your logic of this battle here. Not that his solo existence at other timelines would change his existence from being erased here as i have debunked earlier above though,all am doing is just pointing that out as a point to be noted.

Well, i know because Sinbad isn´t on the same Level like Nyar or Demonbane. But, it was only a comparson what higherdimensional Beings are.

I have always loved sinbad as he's one of my fav anime characters but nyar and egd comparison shouldn't be brought up to scale sinbad in whatever higher dimensional way you wish to place the comparison at. Those guys scaling to sinbad would be sinbad being a void dimensional being to them IMO,numerous characters could've being brought but come on,not this guys. I mean the existence of one of this guys you brought up here is above reality itself.

Even if Zeno try to erased Sinbad on earth, then he can´t erased him. He can destroy the whole Universe with Sinbad, it doesn´t make it different. He isn´t bound by this Universe, so he can exist outside of the Universe and outside everything that can erased Space and even Time.

It doesn't matter where he exist at mate,existence erasure would basically take away the concept of his existence from all space time he exist at. Again,basically how zenos erasure works.

If we take this match for real, then is even the Sinbad who fight against Zeno only an Avatar, because Sinbad "exist" only in the Sacred Place.

My bad there mate,god sinbad is fine.

If we take the normal Sinbad without God Powers, or the Sinbad who lose all this Powers, then yes: Zeno will murderstomp him.

lol that version would just be wrong.

But if we take The one above all Gods in Magi, then i don´t see how Zeno can erased him.

You're free to think and see things from a different perspective mate,that's totally fine.

Thanks, i think the same way. We don´t need to attack us, because it is not my way of a debate. I don´t won´t imposition my oppinion, i only will explain how i came to the decision, so we you do the same way with me. If we don´t find good point, then fine by me.

That's cool mate. Points and reasons to my decision here has being pointed out though. I can also see we understand each other here. Once again,NICE DEBATE.

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azrael1973

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@rxdking said:

Zeno stomps. What is this mismatch

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kasya_carey

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CaoCao

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#105  Edited By CaoCao

@elderelijah190 said:

@caocao: said:

Zeno popped up a timeline alongside the soul of a being that merged with the universe and could also leak into other timelines (Basically an astral being) he also tanked said attack too. Not to mention regular god hakai can also erase immortal beings that have attained immortality.

Still, Zeno haven´t complete influence above time and space to be a higherdimensional being. That what i already say.

Regular Hakai has shown only the feats, to erased at least ah being between 3-D and 4-D (Zamasu) We can only speculatet, because Zeno hasn´t shown the disposition.

Pretty op,but that could only be applicable to his verse alone. Its not like he holds the plot to every fiction right? Also,i agree zeno doesn't operate on this scale but i don't think said feat is battle applicable to change the outcome of things here.

Well, if we go with this, why should Zeno erased a universe from Magi? But ok, we can go with them i don´t think that should be a problem. Sinbad can still not killed, by erased the universe, because his higherdimensional existance remains.

Its a thing of he might be able to if feats is concerned considering he carries none but logic wise,he could destroy them but i doubt he could give the perfect erasure zeno does though. Btw,zeno also erased a time ring in the manga housing 12 universe as i'd already stated above (not to forget a timeline also got the erasure treatment alongside said universes also ),basically a high end erasure feat if u ask me.
A single timeline at least, because the presence exist still. Would he be a higherdimensional being, he can even erased the future, the presence and the past, or at least to be a higher being he should exist in or above them, without help (The time-machine brings him to the other timeline. Well, i don´t won´t lowball Zeno´s Power, but i must take the dimensional system too. At least he shouldn´t kill or destroyed Zeno, because Sinbad hasn´t enough feats. But he is still not in the same dimensional position. So, by feats they can only look eachother xD
I don´t know, why be higherdimensional being not a feat. It make it impossible to attack this guy. If he only is a 3-D Charakter i would understand, that Zeno murderstomps him, but with all the points allready shown above, he keeps himself in the higher area like 5-D.
But if feats are realy the absolute relevant point and ignores even the higherdimensional Charakter, then i agree.
I don´t know well, how the matches works. i am new. I don´t like calcs, because most of then are not controlled. I only going with feats and the necessary dtatement, who explained the concept. I totaly respect your oppinion by the way, but i don´t think we both cames to the same point.. That´s not even bad, maybe you are right, and i make a failure. This can happen.

Not showing by feats, but by potencial. And this potencial is far above Zeno, becasue Zeno his Feats are very limitated.

Because, a higher being doesen´t shown always feats. It´s only explained. You don´t need shown feats, that you be a higherdimensional being. The Reason is simple: There are more Types of higherdimensional Being.

The body, the power, the objects and some more. For exemple i said Nyarlathtotep from the Lovecraft verse. He is by the world a higher or infinite higherdimensional charakter, but he never shown the potencial to erased a complex system. That´s the reason why i disagree with many calc-wikis. The put power and higherdimensional Existance on the same point. The tieringsystem should be more get by the shown feats, but not by the dimensional existance. Better, those guys doing it seperate. For Example:

God-Sinbad by tering-system is universal + or multi-universal (Because he destroyed Universe and a Universel Level Being with his Hand). But he has at least a 5-dimensional concept.

He can actually,basically why it's existence erasure,his higher dimensional existence would basically be erased.

Well, he doesen have a higherdimensional System on a scale to 5-D. Zeno isn´t even a 5-D Charakter, because he doesen´t exist outside the higherdimensional timeline by himself. Only that exist. Dragon Ball Super is a multiversal System. There are 12 Universes and there are different Timelines, so Universe 1 maybe has 3 or more Time-Space Continuums (Future, which was erased by the future Zeno. The past, where is another Zeno. And the timeline now, who is the right or other Zeno) If Zeno realy a higherdimensional being, he only can exist one time. He is abolve the Future, the Past, etc. But there is not point, that showing he is. That´s why Zeno have only a 4-dimensional Level (I know, some guys maybe put him at 3-D) There isn´t more higher time-space-systems that Zeno can going by himself. He is also bounded by a higher Timeline, Sinbad isn´t. See the Scans above. And if he erased for example with Hakai, it can only erased below 4-D. Or Zeno can erase 4-D too, but he never shown. If he can, maybe he doesen´t exist anymore. But that´s all speculation and as you said: Feats are relevant. He haven´t shown feats that make Zenos Power abould 4-D. We can take the Statement´s that Zeno can all erased, but that alone isn´t even proofen. Because he hasn´t shown relevant feats, just like Sinbad too. You can´t erased Beings, that you can´t hurt because there aren´t palable.

Zeno wont hit him though,he would just take away his existence,basically that. And i also don't understand u,zeno is basically the supreme god of his verse. Sinbads existence in his verse can't be imposed on another verse,they are both supreme being on a different scale via logic wise so sinbad being a higher dimensional being in his verse doesn't automatically mean he transcends zenos logic. A point to take note of.

Even Zeno is the Supreme-God, we can´t give him a Victory because his Name. That isn´t enough.

And even Zeno is a Supreme-God, that isn´t relevant. Took both supreme God´s against each other, and Zeno wins by feats, but not by logic because a higherdimensional Being isn´t a higherdimensional Being. Even if Zeno destroyed all 18 Universes with one Attack, he can´t kill Sinbad. It is not relevant, how many Universes you destroyed. It is relevant, how many Time-Space Continuums the Universe has. A higherdimensional System in one Universe is more then 10 Universes who only have at max a 3-D or 4-D.

Zeno destroyed the Universe of Magi and only two thinks happen. He erased at least the 3-D or 4-D Concept, but the 5-D Concept still exist. Or he can´t even erased 3-D or 4-D because his Hakai was limited (Why still exist the other Timeline with Goku? Even is this Plot-Armor, it shown any feat that he can be a higher Universe. ) So how Zeno should erased Sinbad, who is higher then his Universe?

In a way,this sounds about right. Though,if looked from another perspective,it doesn't because what you could indirectly be stating here is fictional battle forum as a whole shouldn't be in existence itself. How right? basically because a tier that exist in a certain fiction can't get tagged by any other fictional feats from another verse as he doesn't exist in said fictions system so forum as a whole shouldn't be inplace. A summary of what your statement above could amount

Well, i explained above what i thing about Tiering-System and Dimensions.

We took two fictional Worlds, but we should account the System. If we took two different Types from two Worlds, it will be better, if both are the same dimensional System. If we nerf the higherdimensional Charakter, we give him only a Handycap, because the dimensional Being is part of his Charakter. But ok, we can said make both Being´s equal, so Zeno stomps.

To the Statements: It was the Explaination of the Sacred Place and the World of Magi, statet by Ugo and Sinbad (Both Gods) So there should nt be no doubt, that the Statements are correct.

Didn't get your point here.

Eh, sorry. I talk about that Zeno doesen´t have a Enemy in his own World (Only Tori-Bot) if the normal Dragon Ball Manga allowed. Now, we take Zeno against a being who is by the Concept above Zeno, but hasn´t the feat.

i never disagreed sinbad couldn't be scaled via logic and statements here though. I only stated his supreme logic shouldn't be set in motion to belittle other verses supreme type of logic.

Well, it will be a downgrade for Sinbad. But, is this the function of a fictional Battle, then i agreed by the rules.

Your point here is? its not like zeno is some folder character being held in high esteem here though,he's supreme in his verse that erases universes and the concept of existence itself so his feats logical wise should be considered to his opponent here,not outright downplayed. Naruto being brought up here is irrelevant as zeno isn't some folder tier with insane low level feats that is basically made to be supreme and above a tier that is way out of his league.

You´re absolutly right, but since when is Zeno fodder, if he only should can´t erased Sinbad? He is the wrong enemy, not because he has not showing relevant thinks. I personaly take this as a problem in a match, at first because most of the higher Beings most have Hax and no destructive Output. Well, or Hax is the destructive Output in this way. He is the wrong enemy, because the Concept isn´t the same as Zeno´s. The Dragon Ball Verse by himself should be Multiversal, but Zeno isn´t. At least the match can end as a Stalemate, because Zeno can´t erased him and Sinbad hasn´t the Feat to erased him.

I would reference this to what i just stated above.

Well, we both have or different view :D

I know because i never went against this. Me bringing up feats was because you were the one who stated he is high multiversal by feats.

Ok, then i was wrong. Have i realy wrote "Feats"? I write:

"However, Sinbad in at his best Moment was High Multiversal, so Zeno has no chance."

This was my Statement, but maybe i have should say "High-Multiversal Being" without the same feats.

Again what brought u to this conclusion,they are both supreme beings in each respective verses,you can't automatically deem one above another because you wish to by your own logic.

It is not my own logic, Sinbad is higher then Zeno. Not We can´t say Zeno is, without the proof and Zeno already shown that he doesen´t destroy the other Timelines and there was another Zeno. That is fact enough, to say that Zeno isn´t on the same Level. Zeno hasn´t the influcence.

Pardon but this is totally wrong considering the way you came up with the conclusion of him not standing a chance here.

He has no chance to kill him, but Sinbad was "higher". Which chance we give Sinbad? equalized the dimensional Existance?

Zenos erasure doesn't have to do with touching or making contact with whatever he's up against,neither does he have to understand what he's up against to basically erase it. When he erased zamatsu,he had know idea zamatsu became astral and also altered the laws of physics by leaking into other timelines,he basically just found his laughter to be annoying and he erased whatever way zamatsu existed alongside a timeline despite his ignorance. Thats how his erasure works.

Zamasu wasn´t even about Zeno, so how he should survive the Hax. But why should other Hax doesen´t accept it, if Zeno get hit. We don´t even know what he can tank, we only know his Rank.Why? He never shown, that he can tank? Not every Hax can broken by Dragon Ball Charakters via DC, but that make it difficult. How can we say that a charakter with weaker DC, can´t destroy a stronger enemy with Hax? It´s not even Dragon Ball, there are many other fictional Verses where many guys get in Favor for his verse (I don´t talk about you, i mean that the different Verses make it complicatet to equalize) What is acceptet and what not? It should be pretetermindet with Rules. For example: Sinbad can only crush his System, but why shoul be Zeno crush the Magi-System? Zeno doesen´t shown anything that he can erase every Universe, he has his own Universes. He is the One Above All in Super. So, we can all debate about how it works and how not. Verses should became the same Rights not only by feats. But ok, you have your oppinion about the dimensional-construct and i have mine. It should be more transparency :D I don´t see that Zeno can erased Sinbad, but i don´t see how Sinbad should win against Zeno, because his low Feats.

I don´t even know, why funny guys think it will be good, to make this matches. Just look at us, we already on fire, hahaha.

Zeno erasure can't be bypassed by power levels in dbs as beings who resist hakai erasure energy via power levels gets wiped out like folder from existence by zeno. His erasure isn't something you can overpower and struggle with,neither does he fire a hakai energy to begin with,you instantly stop existing. His erasure isn't something the god hakai despite being impressive on a large scale compare to. The average hakaishin energy is really op and impressive because a small amount of it could erase the physical and spiritual existence considering what sindra stated and hakai can also erase a being existence not just from a timeline but it also affects said existence at other timelines,said being exist at if scaled to beerus and zamatsu. Also,god toppo in depicted destruction form casual hakai energy while considering the rules of the top warped the WOV to high end degrees and caused a significant amount of destruction. Note,there are also forms in which hakai is displayed mate. Hakai could work as destruction,erasure and so on depending on said situation.

I total agree, but Power-Level isn´t a higherdimensional Construct. That is the Different. You can´t equalized Power Level and the dimensional Existance. Or maybe you can, if the typical rules so constructet (I don´t know)

Dbz concept and statement is different from magi because they are different verses like you earlier stated and so they consider a logic of power levels of which said power levels is basically void to zeno in dbz itself like i earlier explained. Hakaishins hakai can be looked into,from different perspectives also. You can't just judge another verses logic which has nothing to do with zeno weighs less than another because they practically practice different logic from said both series. How one weighs more via how it is more depicted isn't something you can just come up with.

Yes they are both very different, but does it mean Zeno can erased everything, even higher Existance that is far above (Even by higher Feats?) The feats aren´t the problem, the dimensional Concept ist. Zeno erases everything, but not all Timelines in the one Universe. So how, he should erase Sinbad?

Doesn't matter as his boundless self would seize to exist,basically how erasure works and how is zeno bounded to only universal? Anyway,still reading ahead.

If someone is boundless, then nothing can erases them, except they are Beings on the same scale with enough feats. The same by higher Beings.

All this won't matter as he would outright be erased from existence, he holds no means or scaling to bypass this. The way he exist wont matter as he would stop existing and if necessary,the sacred place as well will be erased.

That´s how it works, but only showing by lowerdimensional Beings. As i said, if Zeno erased everything he is above all, but there are many Beings that are far above Zeno. Why shouldn´t work against them? Because Feats? They are useless, if he can bypass everything but it doesen´t work in this way.

Has it ever being shown that timelines exist in the magi verse and if a prove comes in,it really doesn't matter as regular gods hakai can erase existence at other significant timelines,their said opponents exist at. This could be scaled to beerus and zamatsu. Check this out.....

Of course, it stated allready above. You see the Point how Sinbad destroyed the Universe and Ill Illah. He is an the Future(You see modern buildings in our Time). So he can move between the Timelines without Zeno. Zeno bypasses Durability, not higher Beings this is a unknown number. Maybe we became more feats in this time.

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Here,we've zamatsu stating his existence was saved as a result of the timering he had on. Beerus original erasure on the him existing at the present timeline would have erased his existence here, at the future timeline if it wasn't for the timering he once again had on. There you go, regular hakai erasure affects timeline existence.

I don´t say it doesent. I said, it only erased one Timeline, because Son Goku and more still exist.

I don´t understand the comparison between the Time-Ring (Who is a higherdimensional object) and Zamasu by himself, who isn´t

still isn't changing the outcome of things here.

It shows, the limit. Or Zeno doesen´t have to do it, but that isn´t enough.

A single sinbad existence at other timelines won't change anything here as i have numerously proved above. Op never stated winner can only be decided by who succeeds in erasing tiers existence at present and other timelines though,imean by this logic,tiers can't be declared winners as their opponents existence in other timelines can't be declared. Yes,despite the fact that a single sinbad exist in timelines which could then be seen differently but trust me,it mostly certainly wont. Its basically an indirect scaling that could be related to your logic of this battle here. Not that his solo existence at other timelines would change his existence from being erased here as i have debunked earlier above though,all am doing is just pointing that out as a point to be noted.

Hmm? It shows that Sinbad is a higher being.

There was no debunk at all, i only see an alternative option if we make both dimensional Beings equalized.

It isn´t relevant which timeline get erases. Every Dragon Ball Super Charakter, that killed by Hakai was bound by the fourdimensional System. Even Zamasu, who can only travel but not a 5-D Charakter ist, because he get erased with the Universe. At least. he was the Universe. You can´t erased thinks that is beyond a concept, unless the Enemy or at least his Power is on the same or higher scale.

I have always loved sinbad as he's one of my fav anime characters but nyar and egd comparison shouldn't be brought up to scale sinbad in whatever higher dimensional way you wish to place the comparison at. Those guys scaling to sinbad would be sinbad being a void dimensional being to them IMO,numerous characters could've being brought but come on,not this guys. I mean the existence of one of this guys you brought up here is above reality itself.

I give you the context: Both are higherdimensional Beings and this is the Reason that he can´t killed by low dimensional Beings. It doesen´t even matter if Nyar is higher then Sinbad. He hasn´t shown anything that makes him above Zeno, but he is ah higher or infinite higherdimensional Being. He outclassed Zeno as an own Existance. I know that both are higher then Sinbad, but Sinbad destroyes Universe and his God. Nyar doesen´t shown anything equal, so he dies. But back to the real: Nyarlathotep wins, because he is a higherdimensional Being. That is the difference and Sinbad is not this high like Nyar, but he is higher then Zeno (Not by feats) Should Zeno erased him, he erased by Logic everything, because DC and higherdimensional Concept are falsely take together. Zeno erased a 5-D Being, because he bypass his Dura or he can erase everythink. That can´t work, because this higherdimensional System is about his idea.

It doesn't matter where he exist at mate,existence erasure would basically take away the concept of his existence from all space time he exist at. Again,basically how zenos erasure works.

Basically, it works different.

My bad there mate,god sinbad is fine.

Not you bad, i don´t even be a Sinbad-Fan xDDD

lol that version would just be wrong.

It will, because there is nothing that Sinbad can do. This will be a horrible missmatch.

You're free to think and see things from a different perspective mate,that's totally fine.

Ok, then i can go with them.

That's cool mate. Points and reasons to my decision here has being pointed out though. I can also see we understand each other here. Once again,NICE DEBATE.

Thank´s i think the same.

And sorry, if the discussions-Style sounds like a bit harsh and sorry for my english. I am sick, so my concentration ins´t the best.

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ElderElijah190

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#106  Edited By ElderElijah190

@caocao said:@elderelijah190 said: @caocao: said:

Still, Zeno haven´t complete influence above time and space to be a higherdimensional being.

Which is why your logic here is flawed,beerus who doesn't have influence over time and space erased a being from parallel timelines,beerus only exist in one and his future self had even be killed,yet his folder hakai could erase the zamatsu from depicted existences at said alternate timelines. So your higherdimensional logic doesn't really change the outcome of things here. I mean despite it being irrelevant,it also seems like a nifty way to dodge zenos obvious winning chances here.

That what i already say.

And what you said isn't really much of a saving grace for sinbad. They're nothing but meaningless claims and speculation on your part. Your higherdimensional logic isn't changing the outcome of things here like i have numerously stated and debunked.

Regular Hakai has shown only the feats,

Just wow! so regular hakai from a folder god has shown such feat yet zeno who sits above all with an existence erasure hax can't replicate such feats? Zeno erased an entire future timeline alongside a being who became astral and leaked it's presence into other timelines, also,take note zenos erasure got over to the present timeline and erased his presence over there. You wanna know why his existence erasure affected him at the present timeline? well that's because his existence was still depicted there. That's basically what existence erasure means which i was trying to explain to u earlier,wherever you may exist at whatever space time doesn't really matter as you would as well be erased over there. Beerus didn't need to be solo in the present,future and the past to erase zamatsu,beerus who isn't a higherdimensional being by your logic operated on that scale. Existence Erasure>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hakai, heck its should already tell u such heights are nothing to it by its name.

to erased at least ah being between 3-D and 4-D (Zamasu) We can only speculatet, because Zeno hasn´t shown the disposition.

I would reference this to my post above. A few things to add here is,we are not speculating here,we're scaling him to folder tiers that could replicate said feat in the series. Which is why i earlier asked in my previous post that, does sinbad or any other weaker tiers in the magi verse which he could scale to have any existence erasure defense, which you failed to prove,zeno also doesn't rely on obvious undisputed scaling but also feats like erasing astral zamatsu. Take note once again that he that is zamatsu also became omnipresence and found his way to the the present dbz timeline which could only be possible via time travel,take note again that only zeno could've erased him completely with an entire future,not even beerus as stated could've ever imagine of accomplishing that. Look,we speculating which you stated above can only be pointed at your logic of sinbad being an higher dimensional being and so,zeno can't erase him with know logical feats or scaling,pure speculation can also be we assuming sinbad can destroy a universe without any universal feat or scaling that could be of use to him. Funny how you earlier mentioned by potentials he could "potentials i never disagreed on and went with" Now you're thesame guy that fail to accept zenos logical scaling and feats,really funny and at thesame time bs to me. You see how speculating has being what you've doing here with sinbad not me,speculating like higherdimenesional sinbad which wouldn't actually change anything here as logically and already numerously debunked. Zeno basically still erase his concept of existence

Well, if we go with this, why should Zeno erased a universe from Magi? But ok, we can go with them i don´t think that should be a problem.

Lol really?my logic seems fair as it would be logical that a tier who breaks a rock from a verse can as well break a rock from another verse if needed in forum battles to take down his opponent. Sinbad having access to the plot of his verse doesn't doesn't automatically means he solos marvel with that via logic. Basically why i said it is't battle applicable.

Sinbad can still not killed, by erased the universe, because his higherdimensional existance remains.

Already addressed this false claims above.

A single timeline at least, because the presence exist still. Would he be a higherdimensional being, he can even erased the future, the presence and the past, or at least to be a higher being he should exist in or above them, without help (The time-machine brings him to the other timeline. Well, i don´t won´t lowball Zeno´s Power, but i must take the dimensional system too. At least he shouldn´t kill or destroyed Zeno, because Sinbad hasn´t enough feats. But he is still not in the same dimensional position. So, by feats they can only look eachother xDThis has once again being debunked as nothing worthwhile has changed.I don´t know, why be higherdimensional being not a feat. It make it impossible to attack this guy.It's know longer a feat because it has already bein numerously debunked.

If he only is a 3-D Charakter i would understand, that Zeno murderstomps him, but with all the points allready shown above, he keeps himself in the higher area like 5-D.Your 5-D speculation have already being proven to have know significant change here.

But if feats are realy the absolute relevant point and ignores even the higherdimensional Charakter, then i agree.I never said your speculating him to be higherdimensional doesn't count though,i simply debunked and proved it irrelevant. And funny how you stated i uphold feats as absolute whereas you're thesame person that went with the logic of only regular hakai operating on the higher dimensional level by feat. Btw,i never considered only feats are absolute here though,i worked with debunking sins speculating logic.I don´t know well, how the matches works. i am new. I don´t like calcs, because most of then are not controlled.That's fine mate.

I only going with feats and the necessary dtatement, who explained the concept.Which i one again,didn't go against.

I totaly respect your oppinion by the way,Same to u mate,same to u.but i don´t think we both cames to the same point..Lol,we most certainly don't.

That´s not even bad, maybe you are right, and i make a failure. This can happen.Seems fair mate.Not showing by feats, but by potencial. And this potencial is far above Zeno, becasue Zeno his Feats are very limitated.

Because, a higher being doesen´t shown always feats. It´s only explained. You don´t need shown feats, that you be a higherdimensional being.The Reason is simple: There are more Types of higherdimensional Being.

The body, the power, the objects and some more.

Okayyy....

For exemple i said Nyarlathtotep from the Lovecraft verse.He is by the world a higher or infinite higherdimensional charakter, but he never shown the potencial to erased a complex system.That´s the reason why i disagree with many calc-wikis. The put power and higherdimensional Existance on the same point. The tieringsystem should be more get by the shown feats, but not by the dimensional existance. Better, those guys doing it seperate.

Nyar is op with know doubt in a novel,which is why feats aren't really needed to come to the conclusion of him being infinitely above sin even though said sins higher dimensional statement are allowed to be scaled. Which is why you shouldn't have brought him up here as he operates on an infinite greater scale than sin in the first place.

For Example:

God-Sinbad by tering-system is universal + or multi-universal (Because he destroyed Universe and a Universel Level Being with his Hand).

He destroyed only a universe which wasn't depicted as a feat though "note that am not going against his universal logical level but he doesn't operate on the multi universal erasure level like zeno" Zeno also erased an entire future whereas sin only has his solo existence in timelines going for him with know non corporal erasure feat zeno has replicated. Sinbad being higher dimensional won't once again change anything here though.

But he has at least a 5-dimensional concept.

Doesn't once again matter.

Well, he doesen have a higherdimensional System on a scale to 5-D. Zeno isn´t even a 5-D Charakter, because he doesen´t exist outside the higherdimensional timeline by himself. Only that exist. Dragon Ball Super is a multiversal System. There are 12 Universes and there are different Timelines, so Universe 1 maybe has 3 or more Time-Space Continuums (Future, which was erased by the future Zeno. The past, where is another Zeno. And the timeline now, who is the right or other Zeno) If Zeno realy a higherdimensional being, he only can exist one time. He is abolve the Future, the Past, etc. But there is not point, that showing he is. That´s why Zeno have only a 4-dimensional Level (I know, some guys maybe put him at 3-D) There isn´t more higher time-space-systems that Zeno can going by himself. He is also bounded by a higher Timeline, Sinbad isn´t. See the Scans above. And if he erased for example with Hakai, it can only erased below 4-D. Or Zeno can erase 4-D too, but he never shown. If he can, maybe he doesen´t exist anymore. But that´s all speculation and as you said: Feats are relevant. He haven´t shown feats that make Zenos Power abould 4-D. We can take the Statement´s that Zeno can all erased, but that alone isn´t even proofen. Because he hasn´t shown relevant feats, just like Sinbad too. You can´t erased Beings, that you can´t hurt because there aren´t palable.

Pretty sure i already addressed and debuked all this with my above posts.

Even Zeno is the Supreme-God, we can´t give him a Victory because his Name. That isn´t enough.

Actually,i didn't just declare him the winner but worked with logical reasons as to why. The supreme logic is something you did for sin to take a shortcut out of the logical facts given in zenos favour.

And even Zeno is a Supreme-God, that isn´t relevant.

Same could as well be said for sinbad.

Took both supreme God´s against each other, and Zeno wins by feats, but not by logic

He mostly certainly wins by logic and feats i had already given and proven.

because a higherdimensional Being isn´t a higherdimensional Being. Even if Zeno destroyed all 18 Universes with one Attack, he can´t kill Sinbad. It is not relevant, how many Universes you destroyed. It is relevant, how many Time-Space Continuums the Universe has. A higherdimensional System in one Universe is more then 10 Universes who only have at max a 3-D or 4-D.

All this won't really matter as zeno would bordline erase sin from existence.

Zeno destroyed the Universe of Magi and only two thinks happen. He erased at least the 3-D or 4-D Concept, but the 5-D Concept still exist. Or he can´t even erased 3-D or 4-D because his Hakai was limited

One again ,irrelevant claims that has already being debunked.

(Why still exist the other Timeline with Goku?

Because it didn't needed to be erased,i also fail to understand how this changes zenos capabilities of erasing sins existence here though. Well maybe when you read my above post,we won't need to be back here.

Even is this Plot-Armor, it shown any feat that he can be a higher Universe. ) So how Zeno should erased Sinbad,

Already gave my reasons above.

who is higher then his Universe?

Once again,how did u come up with this when sin hasn't done anything on zenos level apart from a solo parallel timelines existence which wouldn't prove much relevance here. We aren't even sure he can destroy a timeline like zeno has done. Your logic of sin being on the higher dimensional level is basically on a solo existence with nothing else to back it up. You even went as far as scaling him to nyar and egd level due to just a parallel timeline existence.

Well, i explained above what i thing about Tiering-System and Dimensions.

Oh well

We took two fictional Worlds, but we should account the System. If we took two different Types from two Worlds, it will be better, if both are the same dimensional System. If we nerf the higherdimensional Charakter, we give him only a Handycap, because the dimensional Being is part of his Charakter. But ok, we can said make both Being´s equal, so Zeno stomps.

You really are understanding mate,which is why debating with u up until now has being entertaining and tensed,respect your logic mate,i really do.

To the Statements: It was the Explaination of the Sacred Place and the World of Magi, statet by Ugo and Sinbad (Both Gods) So there should nt be no doubt, that the Statements are correct.

Its fine actually,though it's a little bit fishy but it's fine.

Eh, sorry. I talk about that Zeno doesen´t have a Enemy in his own World (Only Tori-Bot) if the normal Dragon Ball Manga allowed.

He doesn't because everyone is scared of him lol.

Now, we take Zeno against a being who is by the Concept above Zeno,

Nope,you can't dictate this with just a solo timeline existence when every other logical hands are pointed to zeno.

but hasn´t the feat.

That's fine as i worked with debunking his said statement and logic up till now.

Well, it will be a downgrade for Sinbad. But, is this the function of a fictional Battle, then i agreed by the rules.

That's fine mate but not once did i downplay sinbad but found his being on a higher dimensional level than zeno to be fishy when logical wise with all things considered,zeno should be higher.

You´re absolutly right, but since when is Zeno fodder,

Since when you brought naruto and azathot up.

if he only should can´t erased Sinbad? He is the wrong enemy, not because he has not showing relevant thinks. I personaly take this as a problem in a match, at first because most of the higher Beings most have Hax and no destructive Output. Well, or Hax is the destructive Output in this way. He is the wrong enemy, because the Concept isn´t the same as Zeno´s. The Dragon Ball Verse by himself should be Multiversal, but Zeno isn´t. At least the match can end as a Stalemate, because Zeno can´t erased him and Sinbad hasn´t the Feat to erased him.

I did prove zeno can erase him though but oh well,you can still consider it a stalemate.

Well, we both have or different view :D

I couldn't agree more..

Ok, then i was wrong. Have i realy wrote "Feats"? I write:

Noted

"However, Sinbad in at his best Moment was High Multiversal,so Zeno has no chance."

This was my Statement, but maybe i have should say "High-Multiversal Being" without the same feats.

Fair enough but he most certainly isn't high multiversal even by speculation.

It is not my own logic, Sinbad is higher then Zeno.

Once again by your logic.

Not We can´t say Zeno is, without the proof and Zeno already shown that he doesen´t destroy the other Timelines and there was another Zeno.

Funny how zeno erased an omnipresence astral being alongside an entire future timeline whereas sinbad only has a solo existence going for him. Funny how we are interrogating zeno not being able to erase timelines while sin doesn't have a feat or statement stating he could operate on heck even a singular dc level though.

That is fact enough, to say that Zeno isn´t on the same Level. Zeno hasn´t the influcence.

what facts are u referring to? i guess the debunked ones.

He has no chance to kill him,

He most certainly does.

but Sinbad was "higher". Which chance we give Sinbad? equalized the dimensional Existance?

Didn't get you here.

Zamasu wasn´t even about Zeno,so how he should survive the Hax.

like how he didn't know of trunks genkidama existence,yet he came back astral/omnipresent right? like how the gods who knows of zenos existence erasure still get wiped out like folder right? like how frieza tanked sindras hakai without any prior knowledge right? like how goku tanked and oneshotted the black hole he knew nothing about right? lol lemme stop there although i could extend these answers to other fiction where tiers tank hax they earlier had know prior knowledge of.

But why should other Hax doesen´t accept it,

Because zeno has erased a being who became astral with time and space from existence,because zeno also erased an entire future timeline,because zeno wipe out universal gods alongside universes like folder from existence. Basically because zenos existence erasure operates on a multi universal scale and not on a folder tier scale.

if Zeno get hit.We don´t even know what he can tank, we only know his Rank.Why? He never shown, that he can tank?

He did tank his multi universal timeline erasing attack though,we can scale him to lower tiers.

Not every Hax can broken by Dragon Ball Charakters via DC, but that make it difficult. How can we say that a charakter with weaker DC, can´t destroy a stronger enemy with Hax?

Because by this logic,kaguya solos odin via tsukuyomi,because jojo bizzare adventure verse should be regarded as the strongest verse in fiction but they aren't because their said hax doesn't operate on some said fictional characters level. Basically because sin hasn't used his hax on anyone significant except early folder tiers not supreme being of a multi universe. There is a reason why nlf exist for some certain hax that aren't spatial.

It´s not even Dragon Ball, there are many other fictional Verses where many guys get in Favor for his verse (I don´t talk about you, i mean that the different Verses make it complicatet to equalize) What is acceptet and what not? It should be pretetermindet with Rules. For example: Sinbad can only crush his System, but why shoul be Zeno crush the Magi-System? Zeno doesen´t shown anything that he can erase every Universe, he has his own Universes. He is the One Above All in Super. So, we can all debate about how it works and how not.

You admitted yourself that sin has dc feat on zenos level,i never said sinbad can't destroy a universe also,i accepted his potentials and speculation. So i don't get where the crushing system is coming from.

Verses should became the same Rights not only by feats. But ok, you have your oppinion about the dimensional-construct and i have mine. It should be more transparency :D I don´t see that Zeno can erased Sinbad, but i don´t see how Sinbad should win against Zeno, because his low Feats.

Fair enough but i gave out my convincing point though.

I don´t even know, why funny guys think it will be good, to make this matches. Just look at us, we already on fire, hahaha.

lmao

I total agree, but Power-Level isn´t a higherdimensional Construct. That is the Different. You can´t equalized Power Level and the dimensional Existance. Or maybe you can, if the typical rules so constructet (I don´t know)

i guess this opinion should be directed to the forum system as a whole lol.

Yes they are both very different, but does it mean Zeno can erased everything, even higher Existance that is far above (Even by higher Feats?) The feats aren´t the problem, the dimensional Concept ist. Zeno erases everything, but not all Timelines in the one Universe. So how, he should erase Sinbad?

Once again already addressed above.

If someone is boundless, then nothing can erases them, except they are Beings on the same scale with enough feats. The same by higher Beings.

if by boundless you're referring to his solo timelines existence then that's most certainly being debunked.

That´s how it works, but only showing by lowerdimensional Beings.As i said, if Zeno erased everything he is above all, but there are many Beings that are far above Zeno. Why shouldn´t work against them? Because Feats? They are useless, if he can bypass everything but it doesen´t work in this way.

Because sinbad doesn't operate on those guys scale,a straightforward answer.

Of course, it stated allready above. You see the Point how Sinbad destroyed the Universe and Ill Illah. He is an the Future(You see modern buildings in our Time). So he can move between the Timelines without Zeno.

still doesn't operate on the timeline scale like dbz but ok,him moving between timelines can as well be scaled to flash but lemme refrain from going so far.

Zeno bypasses Durability, not higher Beings this is a unknown number. Maybe we became more feats in this time.

Debunked

I don´t say it doesent. I said, it only erased one Timeline, because Son Goku and more still exist.

I don´t understand the comparison between the Time-Ring (Who is a higherdimensional object) and Zamasu by himself, who isn´t

Once again,a regular hakai from beerus erased zamatsu from gokus timeline,it should have erased the zamatsu from trunks timeline as well if it wasn't for the time ring which black explained above to have being his saving grace for basically still existing in the future.

It shows, the limit. Or Zeno doesen´t have to do it, but that isn´t enough.

this should change with my above posts

Hmm? It shows that Sinbad is a higher being.

wont matter

There was no debunk at all, i only see an alternative option if we make both dimensional Beings equalized.

It isn´t relevant which timeline get erases. Every Dragon Ball Super Charakter, that killed by Hakai was bound by the fourdimensional System. Even Zamasu, who can only travel but not a 5-D Charakter ist, because he get erased with the Universe. At least. he was the Universe. You can´t erased thinks that is beyond a concept, unless the Enemy or at least his Power is on the same or higher scale.

once again,i already debunked your false claims.

I give you the context: Both are higherdimensional Beings and this is the Reason that he can´t killed by low dimensional Beings.

who is the low dimensional being again?

It doesen´t even matter if Nyar is higher then Sinbad.

lol

He hasn´t shown anything that makes him above Zeno, but he is ah higher or infinite higherdimensional Being. He outclassed Zeno as an own Existance. I know that both are higher then Sinbad, but Sinbad destroyes Universe and his God. Nyar doesen´t shown anything equal, so he dies. But back to the real: Nyarlathotep wins, because he is a higherdimensional Being. That is the difference and Sinbad is not this high like Nyar, but he is higher then Zeno (Not by feats) Should Zeno erased him, he erased by Logic everything, because DC and higherdimensional Concept are falsely take together. Zeno erased a 5-D Being, because he bypass his Dura or he can erase everythink. That can´t work, because this higherdimensional System is about his idea.

This is a sinbad vs zeno and lol at sin being infinite higherdimensional being even though i love him as a character

Basically, it works different.

lol seems like we're becaming a cat and a do

Not you bad, i don´t even be a Sinbad-Fan xDDD

i am though,i just love his slow ruthless nature. I feel he's related to aizen in character.

lol that version would just be wrong.

It will, because there is nothing that Sinbad can do. This will be a horrible missmatch.

Yeah

Ok, then i can go with them.

Yeah,it's left to u.

Thank´s i think the same.

Glad we stay cool after all this.

And sorry, if the discussions-Style sounds like a bit harsh and sorry for my english. I am sick, so my concentration ins´t the best.

Its cool mate,hope you get better also.

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savythegawd

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@wafflecone72: sinbad is on par with ugo who exists on a higher dimension than all of reality so yea he's far more than capable of destroying universes and would be omnipresent to dbs Characters since he is on a higher dimensional existence than 3D zeno

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WhatamIseeing

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This was interesting I never knew Sinbad and that verse was that powerful. 4D beings that’s above the dragon ball franchise

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#109  Edited By CaoCao

@elderelijah190

I think i can answere in 1-2 Weeks, but first i must be healthy or my post will became horrible.

I think most of them i can give you a clear answere. And if we don´t came together by the battle, then we have all try too do what we does. See ya.

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ElderElijah190

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@caocao said:

@elderelijah190

I think i can answere in 1-2 Weeks, but first i must be healthy or my post will became horrible.

I think most of them i can give you a clear answere. And if we don´t came together by the battle, then we have all try too do what we does. See ya.

Yeah mate,take your time and feel better. You can post when you know you're ready.

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EcoBlitz

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#111 EcoBlitz  Online

@elderelijah190: I’ll just address 1 point in your post because db shitstorm isn’t what I’m gonna get into. Erasing someone in the past would obviously kill them in the future, you don’t have to have Time related powers to kill their future self or remove them from existence because that’s how time operates. The feat there is for the ring, not beerus who doesn’t even have feats of affecting timelines. You’re basically giving him power he’s never shown.

Killing someone in the future by erasing them in the past is perfectly normal as that is what would happen normally. Heck if I go to the past and shoot my cousin and he doesn’t exist anymore in the future does that mean the normal bullet has timeline erasure abilities?

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EternalSaiyan32

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Zeno get destroyed... Sinbad is way above him with his hax ability and power... Zeno has only his Hakai but that is it... And still Hakai is Overrated and dont would kill any character who are above Zeno himself. Sinbad win this fight...

Zeno god stomps.

Sinbad is only universal, Zeno is multiversal who had feats of erasing omnipresent true immortals. He erased a timeline, but also erased 6 universes with their own timelines instantly.

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ElderElijah190

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#115  Edited By ElderElijah190

@ecoblitz:

Yeah,no. The timeline system in dbz doesn't work with the concept of the real world logic,i earlier asked if the alternate timeline systems in magi works with that of dbz which it most certainly doesn't,as i already knew of the series myself. You can confirm this when said system in dbz was detailedly being explained to trunks in the manga. Also,future trunks also stating to gokus timeline trunks that he would be experiencing a separate future than he did which makes gokus past timeline different from his. If u think you can apply the real world logic of time to parry with the dbz timeline system that works with timerings then you're totally wrong.

And who says i want to start up with debating here with u likewise also in my most free time? That's not even happening here again except with cao for some clearance on the said debate we at right now. So it's more like u don't want to get into a shitstorm debate with yourself not me,considering i could careless about your so called logic. Wtf with each time a dbz debate is being looked into, some of these guys become salty smh.

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Chad_Duby

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@caocao: Having your own realm doesn't definitely mean you are high multiversal, kaguya also has hers.

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Chad_Duby

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@eternalsaiyan32: zamsu isn't omniprenscene because he didn't cover evey timelines and he isn't truly immortal as well. When some one can be killed, it means they aren't immortal.

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Chad_Duby

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GentlemanTopHat

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Zeno is a multiverse level Being but from what I heard about Sinbad he has a lot more powerful haxs then Zeno and would most likely beat Zeno

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@eternalsaiyan32: zamsu isn't omniprenscene because he didn't cover evey timelines and he isn't truly immortal as well. When some one can be killed, it means they aren't immortal.

There are different types of immortality

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Hegemon

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Is this a serious battle? I mean Zeno is supposed to be Multiversal. A baby, true, but like Multiverse level.

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CaoCao

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#122  Edited By CaoCao

@caocao: Having your own realm doesn't definitely mean you are high multiversal, kaguya also has hers.

Well, there are many different Things between Kaguya her Realm and the Sacred Palace.

The Sacred Palace is like the central core of all creation in the world of Magi. A Room there is above the System and the Worlds. You have the total influence above the Worlds, you are above a higher Concept then Time and Space. You can create, destroy or/and rewrite. In Kaguya her Pocket-Dimensions was no point that those are even above Planet-Level, nor that she has the total controll over the Verses. But before i forgott: Sinbad usess those Powers allready outside of the Sacred Palace, as he destroyed Ill Ilah and the Verse and write a new one. But the reason why Sinbad can use his power outside was, when i remember right that it was only one Avatar of himself. God Sinbad outside the Sacred Palace isn´t God Sinbad anymore.

Kaguya at least is a higher Being in Naruto, but not in the dimensional Scale. She is a 3-D Charakter, because there is no point that she is above Space and Time. If she is, then she is a 4-D Charakter, but without 4-D Powers. Zeno is a 4-D Charakter, because he is above the Concept of the Universes Time-Space System. But even he has shown that he is above the higher Time-Space System in his own World, because he doesen´t exist as a single being in the different Timelines (Every Timeline has one Zeno) Sinbad his Avatar for example was in the Future and erased Ill Ilah his World (Presence) and rewrote them. That´s the reason why Sinbad and Alibaba was realy pissed. If you rule above the Sacred Place or you are Part of those System, you are above Worlds who are Universes. You are above the Multiverse that hold the Universes with her different Timelines. That makes him to a higher multiversal Being. I allready explained in this Thread, but maybe it will be more clear if i answere my Mate in this Thread. I will do it in the next time with Scans. Maybe it can more explain the System then i can :D

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Chad_Duby

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Chad_Duby

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@caocao: Well, I think have a lot to dig, thanks anyway.

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CaoCao

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#125  Edited By CaoCao

@chad_duby said:

@caocao: Well, I think have a lot to dig, thanks anyway.

You´re welcome. It´s always better people questioning our theses.

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neoman90

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really? zeno from DB super?
sinbads only chance of winning this woukd be to bring some funny table games to zeno and entertain him.

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EcoBlitz

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#127 EcoBlitz  Online

@neoman90: I’m guessing you stopped where the anime stopped

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kasya_carey

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If Il Ilah created a univers, then how powerful was the medium when they fought it?

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flashback0180

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Since when did Magi characters become multiversal busters?

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kasya_carey

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@flashback0180: did you read the manga ? The anime stopped a long time ago

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EcoBlitz

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#131 EcoBlitz  Online

WTF??? I just posted like 6 scans and as I clicked next they all vanished

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EcoBlitz

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#132 EcoBlitz  Online
No Caption Provided
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1st scan is ill ilah creating his own universe

2nd scan is ugo showing arba where he kept ill ilah and elder david(a fish tank)

3rd scan is showing Sinbad is above ugo who is above countless dimensional layered universes.

4th scan is Sinbad casually squashing Ill Ilah, which is exactly what will happen to zeno.

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EternalSaiyan32

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#133  Edited By EternalSaiyan32

@eternalsaiyan32: zamsu isn't omniprenscene because he didn't cover evey timelines and he isn't truly immortal as well. When some one can be killed, it means they aren't immortal.

He was spreading into other timelines after taking over his own world. And he was true immortal but was killed by Zeno whos high multiversal and has no relevance to salama or super dragon ball wishes.

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CaoCao

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#134  Edited By CaoCao

@eternalsaiyan32 said:
@chad_duby said:

@eternalsaiyan32: zamsu isn't omniprenscene because he didn't cover evey timelines and he isn't truly immortal as well. When some one can be killed, it means they aren't immortal.

He was spreading into other timelines after taking over his own world. And he was true immortal but was killed by Zeno whos high multiversal and has no relevance to salama or super dragon ball wishes.

Zeno is only Multi-Universal, because he doesen´t exist above the entire Timelines of the Dragon Ball Multiverse. (In every Timeline was one different Zeno, not one Zeno that was above all timelines)

Also is Dragon Ball only a Multiverse. A high Multiverse is outside of the DB-Multiverse-Concept.

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Chad_Duby

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@eternalsaiyan32: Spreading to other timeline did not make you omnipresence because he didn’t cover everything.

“And he was true immortal but was killed by Zeno who is high multiversal.” How does this make him truly immortal? It does not depend on how powerful the opponent was. If you are truly immortal, you can’t be killed.

Zalama doesn’t give wishes, the Super shenron does. And how doesn’t he have revelance to it when his immortality came from Super dragon ball?

Even Super shenron the eternal dragon itself that gave wish to zamasu did t survive when Zeno fired the blast. Why? Because eternal dragon also exists in the future timeline(as we have seen that it gives wish to both black and zamasu), and whis said all things are gone, which means including the dragon. Other wise, trunk would wish his home back.

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EcoBlitz

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#136 EcoBlitz  Online

@eternalsaiyan32: he’s true immortal but is killed by Zeno? Redundant much??

Look at the scans I posted in #132 Sinbad stomps.

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ElderElijah190

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#137  Edited By ElderElijah190

I would be waiting for a more beneficial supporting claim as to why Sinbad wins from an understanding mate here,anything else being said here are claims from bias dbz lowballers that won't even change anything of the sort here.

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ElderElijah190

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Currently as of now,zeno wins.

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Royal_Warrior

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Mismatch obviously Zeno, people trying to play mind games to debate this as usual

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ElderElijah190

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@royal_warrior:

Mate, i don't think its a mismatch anymore seeing the logic Sinbad brings to the table but zeno does win as of now though.

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CaoCao

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#141  Edited By CaoCao
@elderelijah190 said:

Which is why your logic here is flawed,beerus who doesn't have influence over time and space erased a being from parallel timelines,beerus only exist in one and his future self had even be killed,yet his folder hakai could erase the zamatsu from depicted existences at said alternate timelines. So your higherdimensional logic doesn't really change the outcome of things here. I mean despite it being irrelevant,it also seems like a nifty way to dodge zenos obvious winning chances here.

Where he did? I only knew the situation as Beerus erased Zamasu who has try to kill the his Master. Kaioshin´s aren´t higherdimensional beings, the realm and the Race is bounded by the universe. The race are only higher beings, but not in the dimensional scale.

One reason, why the Kaioshins and even the GoD get erased with the Universe. And of course one reason, that even someone like Boo who is a 3-D Charakter with only 3-D Powers kann kill the Kaioshins. The only Zamasu who was about time and space was the Zamasu who has the Timring. But here is the Timering the Reason, not his body, soul or whatever. At least the Zamasu who was one with the universe was a higher being. But even he was´t enough to be 4-D, because he was bounded by the universe, even he was omnipresent. The universe was erased and with the universe Zamasu too. But he was erased by Zeno who is a higherdimensional being and have even the Power of a higherdimensional being.

The only naturaly beings in DBS that should be above the single universes and the single Timellines, are the Angels and Zeno of course.

And what you said isn't really much of a saving grace for sinbad. They're nothing but meaningless claims and speculation on your part. Your higherdimensional logic isn't changing the outcome of things here like i have numerously stated and debunked.

To debunked that someone who is 4-D can erased a 5-D charakter? The statements in the Manga of Magi should be clear enough in which position Ugo and later Sinbad are. There is not many free space for speculation. Magi works more with statements, then with feats.

Statements aren´t always irrelevant. There is more the question, who make those Statements and aren´t they in a opposition. Ugo know´s the magi world better then everyone and Sinbad exceeded Ugo. At first, we have to know how the Magi-World works. It´s the same with the Dragon Ball-Verse and there are many Statements to the function too, or not? If we only take Sinbad, without the knowledge of Ugo and the Magi-World, then he is of course not special. But this way isn´t right, because we ignore his position and not only this: We ignore his influecne of the system. But can shown some regluar facts about the Magi world:

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He was the God who created Alma Torran (The World of the Magi-Protagonists)

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Alma Torran is „another World and exist in a different space and time from this one“

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The Hierarchie between Gods.

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Alddin explained the other worlds.

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Ugo mentioned that he swapped the order of the Gods in the world(s) and there is a endless hierarchy of worlds.

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He is the God (We know he isn´t allmighty, the Story has debunked this in the later parts) of Aladdin and all the others worlds.

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Sinbad explained the structure of the worlds. He said:„The universe is made up of countless layers of worlds, with different gods existing in each of those worlds“The „worlds“ in Magi are Universes with different worlds to eachother (See the scans above) and those are in one Universe which is a multiverse, because the countless layers of worlds/ universes in this one Universe.Sinbad explained that as a God (Ugo) you have the power to switch with a weaker God (Ill Illah) and he killed Ill Illah and the Universe with his own Hand.That makes him to a multiversal being, because he exist outside of this System. The Dimensions in this this System are infinite, so he climbed to a higher multiversal Charakter.Sinbad explained the structure of the worlds. He said:„The universe is made up of countless layers of worlds, with different gods existing in each of those worlds“
Sinbad explained the structure of the worlds. He said:„The universe is made up of countless layers of worlds, with different gods existing in each of those worlds“The „worlds“ in Magi are Universes with different worlds to eachother (See the scans above) and those are in one Universe which is a multiverse, because the countless layers of worlds/ universes in this one Universe.Sinbad explained that as a God (Ugo) you have the power to switch with a weaker God (Ill Illah) and he killed Ill Illah and the Universe with his own Hand.That makes him to a multiversal being, because he exist outside of this System. The Dimensions in this this System are infinite, so he climbed to a higher multiversal Charakter.Sinbad explained the structure of the worlds. He said:„The universe is made up of countless layers of worlds, with different gods existing in each of those worlds“


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More Scans that proofs the higherdimensional and multiversal System.

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Funny thing ist, that Sinbad and Ugo aren´t the higher then the whole Magie-World itself, because the countless hyperspaces that even David can´t reach.

So we have countless, different worlds with horizontal and diagonal axis (Parallelworlds as Universes and higher Dimensions) Every Universe in Magi already is a higher concept, then the Universe in Dragon Ball. The System behind the Universe is a higher Multiverse by the structure and beyond this higher multiverse is the sacared palace with Sinbad. There is no doubt that Sinbad dominate the higher construct of the worlds, what make him to a higher being. Desctruction isn´t all and even it is: Sinbad has the Potencial to destroy all worlds.

Just wow! so regular hakai from a folder god has shown such feat yet zeno who sits above all with an existence erasure hax can't replicate such feats? Zeno erased an entire future timeline alongside a being who became astral and leaked it's presence into other timelines, also,take note zenos erasure got over to the present timeline and erased his presence over there. You wanna know why his existence erasure affected him at the present timeline? well that's because his existence was still depicted there. That's basically what existence erasure means which i was trying to explain to u earlier,wherever you may exist at whatever space time doesn't really matter as you would as well be erased over there. Beerus didn't need to be solo in the present,future and the past to erase zamatsu,beerus who isn't a higherdimensional being by your logic operated on that scale. Existence Erasure>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hakai, heck its should already tell u such heights are nothing to it by its name.

Of course he did, because Zamasu is below in the dimensional hierarchy then Zeno. At least, Zamasu was not above time and space. He only can travel between one Timeline on those differend Arc´s (Via Time Ring, a higherdimensional Object, even higher in his Power as the Kai´s.) Zeno his Power has shown what you wrote: It erased an entire future timeline with the infinite Zamasu. Maybe i understand one point wrong, but how should Beerus erased Infinite Zamasu? It is even the same power that Beerus used, as Zeno? Was that even Hakai, what Zeno uses or a unkown Power?

I would reference this to my post above. A few things to add here is,we are not speculating here,we're scaling him to folder tiers that could replicate said feat in the series. Which is why i earlier asked in my previous post that, does sinbad or any other weaker tiers in the magi verse which he could scale to have any existence erasure defense, which you failed to prove,zeno also doesn't rely on obvious undisputed scaling but also feats like erasing astral zamatsu. Take note once again that he that is zamatsu also became omnipresence and found his way to the the present dbz timeline which could only be possible via time travel,take note again that only zeno could've erased him completely with an entire future,not even beerus as stated could've ever imagine of accomplishing that. Look,we speculating which you stated above can only be pointed at your logic of sinbad being an higher dimensional being and so,zeno can't erase him with know logical feats or scaling,pure speculation can also be we assuming sinbad can destroy a universe without any universal feat or scaling that could be of use to him. Funny how you earlier mentioned by potentials he could "potentials i never disagreed on and went with" Now you're thesame guy that fail to accept zenos logical scaling and feats,really funny and at thesame time bs to me. You see how speculating has being what you've doing here with sinbad not me,speculating like higherdimenesional sinbad which wouldn't actually change anything here as logically and already numerously debunked. Zeno basically still erase his concept of existence

As i explained, because it is for Dragon Ball Super Charakters (included Zeno) at this point inconcivably. They can´t even understand a higher structure, nor attack it. It exist outside of the regular/irrelgular Rules of this Verse. Why should Zeno´s Attack have the power that exist above or outside a regular Dragon Ball Verse by Size and dimensional System? Don´t take Parallel-Dimensions with Space-Time-Dimensions on a same Scale. That is totaly different. Dragon Ball as i said should be Multiverse, but Zeno only is Multi-Universe by showing his Powers. He erased only one Universe with this Timeline, not the Timeline of the presence. That should be enough to shown that he can only erased a Universe or more with one Timeline. The next point ist, that Zeno doesen´t exist above the Multiverse. He only exist in the Multi-Universe System. In every other Timeline exist a different Zeno. So it´s allready debunked several times that Zeno Power isn´t above a higherdimensional System then 5. And this two times. So no, i don´t see a way that he can erased Sinbad.

How should he erased Sinbad, if there isn´t any proof that he can erased at least a low multiversal concept?

Lol really?my logic seems fair as it would be logical that a tier who breaks a rock from a verse can as well break a rock from another verse if needed in forum battles to take down his opponent. Sinbad having access to the plot of his verse doesn't doesn't automatically means he solos marvel with that via logic. Basically why i said it is't battle applicable.

As i allready said, that not every being that is a higherdimensional Existance have the same power to destroyed those dimensional scale. Marvel for example has higherdimensional beings and there is no way that Sinbad can do anything. At least, his power is limited by his feats, but it doesen´t matter if you are a higher being. Someone who is 3-D can´t beat someone who is 4-D even he has 10000 times more Power. Because Power alone isn´t enough to break a higher dimensional Time-Space Concept. Except it is proven that Charakter XY can with his power destroy higherdimensional Beings. The Charakter isn´t a higherdimensional Being at this point but his power is, because he has shown that he can hurt higherdimensional Systems. So he can higherdimensional beings too, because he attacks those Plane. So Sinbad is a higherdimensional Being, but by feats pretty useless.

You can´t hit something that only exist in your Head. You can´t break the wall between those planes without that the Zeno has shown similar things. Another exemple. Dark Schneider exist on 3 Planes of Existance, but he is bounded by the Universe. Those Planes of Existance are dimensional planes they are bounded by the same universal law. So, Zeno erased the Universe and Dark Schneider is History. He is a 3-D Charakter. Every 3-D Charakter doesen´t have Chance against Zeno, because even Hax is bounded by the dimensional Plane. But someone who is higher, there is even a problem if the guy doesen´t have many or even only one feat. You can´t hurt him or erase him. But he can´t do the same to you if he haven no relevant Powers. I hope a could it explain a bit, but i know i am not good in thos things.

What have Zeno to do, if he will erased Sinbad: He has to shown that he is on the same dimensional plane. That is all. Or he have at least a higherdimensional Ability, or a object that can do it. You can say, that isn´t the way how the matches works, but then we ignore the concept and only going with Power. Power isn´t all. Destruction isn´t all. Charakter A can destroy a town, charakter B a city. But charakter A is faster and has some relevant hax. He wins. Charakter C has no powers, but is a higher being on a 4-dimensional scale. Charakter D has the power to destroy a Planet. Charakter C wins, because he can´t harmed. He isn´t even dependend by a System on the Universal Space-Time Scale.

This has once again being debunked as nothing worthwhile has changed.I don´t know, why be higherdimensional being not a feat. It make it impossible to attack this guy.It's know longer a feat because it has already bein numerously debunked.

Hmm.... You can´t give me one point, why Zeno his Power should work against Sinbad. He haven´t even shown that he reach this dimensional Plane. I already explained several times, why someone who isn´t on the same dimensional plane can´t harm from someone who isn´t. Feats are only relevant if both are on the same plane, or at least those feats are on this plane. Erased a Univeral Being isn´t the same, if you tried to erased a multiversal or higher Being.

Zeno has destroyed several Universes with one Timeline. Even if he destroyed 100 Universes with one Timeline, he can´t erased a 5-D Being. Only he has proven that he can destroy by his own a Universe with a multi-dimensional axis. Zeno has infinite Power, but by showing only limited by his System.

Your 5-D speculation have already being proven to have know significant change here.

I already have proven before and know i prove again: See above the Scans. Every Point is given to be a fivedimensional being with the Concept of Magi (Which is far higher then 5-D) Sinbad is in his Realm a 5-D Charakter. He is the God, like Ugo is.

I never said your speculating him to be higherdimensional doesn't count though,i simply debunked and proved it irrelevant. And funny how you stated i uphold feats as absolute whereas you're thesame person that went with the logic of only regular hakai operating on the higher dimensional level by feat. Btw,i never considered only feats are absolute here though,i worked with debunking sins speculating logic.

Because there is no poof that Hakai works against a higherdimensional Person that the User himself. By this Logic as i said, Zeno could even erased 11-D Charakters but why do you think in this way he can´t? His Power is bounded by his Level and his Level is a Multi-Universe in the Dragonball-Multiverse. Where is the feat that Hakai works against higherdimensional beings? Zamasu in his inifnite Form isn´t even above Zeno, so yes: He get erased with the Universe. And Beerus only erased a Zamasu who was on the same dimensional plane like himself. Or is there something in the Manga different that i don´t know. If this, then i change my mind.

Zeno has shown cleary his Limits: Destroy entire Universes with one Timeline. He already has proven that he isn´t even a being on the same scale then Sinbad with his "In every Space-Time-Continuum exist another Zeno".

I totaly respect your oppinion by the way,Same to u mate,same to u.but i don´t think we both cames to the same point..Lol,we most certainly don't.

Yeah, i think the same way. I think it will be end in a never ending debate. But for me i have fun, and i can improve my english and my wisdom about other fictional charakters.

Nyar is op with know doubt in a novel,which is why feats aren't really needed to come to the conclusion of him being infinitely above sin even though said sins higher dimensional statement are allowed to be scaled. Which is why you shouldn't have brought him up here as he operates on an infinite greater scale than sin in the first place.

I don´t talk about the Demonbane Nyar, i talk about the Lovecraft Version, which is realy weak by showing feats for someone who is a outer god. I Read some Books and doesen´t found

anything relevant to put him on the same Scale like Yog-Sothoth (Who has the most feats in the Lovecraft-Verse in my oppinion). There is more scaling by the Hierarchie, as by feats.

But yes, he operates on a infinite greater scale, but that does every being that is in a other dimensional Level. But is the work everytime a feat, or relevant? Sinbad can switch all Universes in his Universe and can destroy them. He can do it, but he only shown it one time as he destroyed the Universe from Ill Ilah. He can do this to all Universes in his System and with the Universes all Dimensions in the System. But he doesen´t shown it. So he haven´t feats, ony Statements that proof that the System and the God are on a higher dimensional Plane.

He destroyed only a universe which wasn't depicted as a feat though "note that am not going against his universal logical level but he doesn't operate on the multi universal erasure level like zeno" Zeno also erased an entire future whereas sin only has his solo existence in timelines going for him with know non corporal erasure feat zeno has replicated. Sinbad being higher dimensional won't once again change anything here though.

I don´t understand why this wasn´t a feat. He destroyed the Universe with the God and write a new one. As i said, not every Verse gives you some Action like Dragonball.

Actually,i didn't just declare him the winner but worked with logical reasons as to why. The supreme logic is something you did for sin to take a shortcut out of the logical facts given in zenos favour.

Well, we have both different perspectives about the Logic. For me, Zeno has no Chance, because he can´t harm him based on the dimensional-system. But to be frank, how should Sinbad erased Zeno, if he haven´t the feats?

Same could as well be said for sinbad.

Right, i only count the dimensional scale.

He mostly certainly wins by logic and feats i had already given and proven.

Not by the logic, if he is a higherdimensional being then Zeno.

All this won't really matter as zeno would bordline erase sin from existence.

Well, you have your opinion and i have mine.

One again ,irrelevant claims that has already being debunked.

See above. There is no debunk, if Zeno doesen´t have shown the power to erased higherdimensional beings above him. You can´t erased a higher System, that doesen´t exist.

Zenos Power is Infinite, but at least bounded by the highs o the Verse. I don´t declare that someone is more powerfull then his Verse, without a prove that he is higher or show things they are higherdimensional. Zeno at least has only shown that he isn´t the only all powerfull God in the Multiverse. For every Space-Timecontinuum in Dragon Ball there is another Zeno.

That alone shows the Top of his Power, because he can´t escape his multiverse-System. He is bounded by his own higher Timeline. At least, he as a Multi-Universal-God in a multiversal System. Even if we said, Sinbad isn´t multiversal, he is at least Universal with the absolute possibility to erased more then one Universe. And here is the Problem that we doesen´t ever see that Zeno can someone who is on his own Level. Can Zeno erase Zeno?

Because it didn't needed to be erased,i also fail to understand how this changes zenos capabilities of erasing sins existence here though. Well maybe when you read my above post,we won't need to be back here.

It is more that the Universe isn´t bound in some point by the other Timelines, what makes it impossible to be erased the complete timele.

Once again,how did u come up with this when sin hasn't done anything on zenos level apart from a solo parallel timelines existence which wouldn't prove much relevance here. We aren't even sure he can destroy a timeline like zeno has done. Your logic of sin being on the higher dimensional level is basically on a solo existence with nothing else to back it up. You even went as far as scaling him to nyar and egd level due to just a parallel timeline existence.

The Statement´s allready explained the Magi-System and someone who can affected this System (Destiny-Power, World-Destruction and Recreate-Power, Plot-Power) and exist above this System is a higherdimensional being, because he isn´t bound by this System.

He isn´t bound by a World, nor by the higher Multiverse. Well, he can affected the whole System, so he can if he wish. But not only the Future-Timeline. There is no other Sinbad in a other Timeline, because the Multiverse is below him.

I think, you misunderstood some Point. I don´t want scale Sinbad to Nyar and others. It should only shown, what different dimensional beings are, even without relevant feats.

I can´t remember that Nyar can destroy even one Universe. I only know that someone like Cthulhu before it cames to earth, that it destroy Stars. Later he get hitted by a boat xD

The only two in the Mythos which have very powerfull feats or statements are Yog and Azathoth. It doesen´t matter how much feats Nyar has, Sinbad can´t understand a higherdimensinal being them him. He can´t do anything, even if he have (for example) the power to destroy a multiverse, because a higherdimensional being exist on more planes then the entire concept of the multiverse, or is outside the system.

You really are understanding mate,which is why debating with u up until now has being entertaining and tensed,respect your logic mate,i really do.

Well, i don´t realy agree with those Matches, but ok. If they rules are given. The Match-Maker makes the rules :D And thanks, the same to you.

Its fine actually,though it's a little bit fishy but it's fine.

I agreed, but that is how Magi works. Different Verses with different powers and different rules. Some Verse works with more feats, some with more statements. Some works with both.

All of them have contradictions, and all of them bring more way of thinking.

He doesn't because everyone is scared of him lol.

Yeah, but you know there are more powerfull beings then Zeno, outside his Verse.

So how react someone who is above all Existance in his world against someone who is far abovehim? (I don´t mean Sinbad, i mean in general)

Nope,you can't dictate this with just a solo timeline existence when every other logical hands are pointed to zeno.

Why not? He hasn´t shown that he can enough planes or dimensional axis to harm someone on Sinbad his Level.

That's fine as i worked with debunking his said statement and logic up till now.

The Logic is i said the dimensional Level too.

That's fine mate but not once did i downplay sinbad but found his being on a higher dimensional level than zeno to be fishy when logical wise with all things considered,zeno should be higher.

Why? Because someone who is a higherdimensional, should have the feats to destroy or erase such a concept? That is to easy and doesen´t explain the Concept. That is the point that i critizie on Sides like VsBattle. Don´t put the Tiering System with the Dimensional Concept one by one to the same point. Not every Person that have a higherdimensional Power is a highdimensional Charakter. Not every highdimensional Being have similar powers on his dimensional Level. You are only not bounded by this System below, that is all. And that is enough that you can´t die if someone who is below the System attack you. I don´t know why people make those threads, without inform about the charakter. Most of this Thread-Creators only knows Zeno, like most of the People who answere. They have no clue above Magi, Saint Seiya, To Aru, or other different Worlds. They hear a name and think: "Wow, i heard he is powerfull. I should put him against Zeno". If those guys wan´t a dimensional debate, then they shouldn´t make those matches. Powerscaling isn´t more relevant as the dimensional concept of any world or charakter.

Zeno by himself i think is a 4-D Charakter. He is above the single Universes with those different Single-Timelines. The World of Dragon Ball is a Multiverse. At least a Low Multiverse. Zeno could be a 5-D if there is the Prove that he exist above the Multiverse and not in every Timeline a extra Zeno.

With Sinbad is there a different System. The Magi-Verse goes in the Hyperverse Way if we take the countless Hyperspace-Statements and the Explainaton about the dimensional-System, the God-Hierarchie, the Universes, the Timelines, and more. At least most are only Statements, but most fictional Verses explains the Worlds via Statements.

Sinbad is far below the Hyperverse. So he can´t even be the higherst God in Magi by the Logic. But he rules about a System with countless Worlds, which have infinte or near infinite Dimensions by Statements within a Multiverse. That makes him to a 5-dimensional Being, because he can exist outside, above and with the influcence to make many thinks with the system. He is God.

Since when you brought naruto and azathot up.

That was my Statement, which should said: Naruto has more Feats then Azathoth, but Azathoth is a higher Being so Naruto can´t harm him. He exist on a different Plane, but by the Feat Logik, the dimensional Scale doesen´t sound relevant. My bad, if i get it wrong.

I did prove zeno can erase him though but oh well,you can still consider it a stalemate.

Well, i prove that he is a higherdimensional Being, if the Statements counts who makes by Gods and Charakters who unterstand the higher Concept of Magi in the Magiverse. If someone in the Magi-Verse explained the whorld who is a dealer, then i won´t thinkt the Statements aren´t true. Or Ussop make those Statements, most of them are Lies for sure. But by that what we became? But ok, maybe the scope of interpretation ist too big.

Fair enough but he most certainly isn't high multiversal even by speculation.

Where would you rate him by the Staments?

Funny how zeno erased an omnipresence astral being alongside an entire future timeline whereas sinbad only has a solo existence going for him. Funny how we are interrogating zeno not being able to erase timelines while sin doesn't have a feat or statement stating he could operate on heck even a singular dc level though.

Well, Zamasu has one problem. He was bounded by the Universe. He can´t escape nor survive without it. That is why he died. He nevery was a higher being on the Level like Zeno.

Zeno can erased Timelines, but only those that are below him. The Presence can only erased by the first Zeno, but now the Future Zeno is in his realm, so he can erased the World too,

There is no Zeno that can erased all timelines, because in every Time-System is a different Zeno. So even Zeno is bounded by time, but a higher System of Time.

what facts are u referring to? i guess the debunked ones.

Where?

He most certainly does.

I think, this question makes a long debate :D

Didn't get you here.

Never mind.

like how he didn't know of trunks genkidama existence,yet he came back astral/omnipresent right? like how the gods who knows of zenos existence erasure still get wiped out like folder right? like how frieza tanked sindras hakai without any prior knowledge right? like how goku tanked and oneshotted the black hole he knew nothing about right? lol lemme stop there although i could extend these answers to other fiction where tiers tank hax they earlier had know prior knowledge of.

Well, those Hax isn´t even real hax if they have a Limit against Beings on the same Scale.

And we know that in Dragon Ball you can broke with enough DC some Hax. But it is different, how it works.We see Hax from another Verse, we have no proof that the Hax can work against someone from Dragon Ball, because there aren´t people who are powerfull like Jiren or Toppo. And this is one point, that can´t count for every Type of Hax. You can say that Hax from the same type doesen´t work. Example: Existance Erasure Hax from different Worlds doesen´t work, because it lacks by DC. But Powers there are open like Realty Warp, can´t be count.

And about Zeno: He is above all the Dragon Ball Charakters. Frieza tanked the Hakai, but can he tanked the Hakai or a different Power from Zeno? He erases Gods of Destruction. As long as you be a 3-D Charakter you are sure dead against Zeno, if he hit you with his Attack.If you a higher being it is the same that there is someone on Zeno his Level. With or without feats. And he can erased too?

Because zeno has erased a being who became astral with time and space from existence,because zeno also erased an entire future timeline,because zeno wipe out universal gods alongside universes like folder from existence. Basically because zenos existence erasure operates on a multi universal scale and not on a folder tier scale.

Well, it doesen´t make sense if his enemy on a higher scale of the existance. Zeno erases Universes with a timeline. Zeno erases a being that is the Universe and maybe the Timeline.

He did tank his multi universal timeline erasing attack though,we can scale him to lower tiers.

Where? You talk about his own Attack? He is above the Universe Scale, and the Attack was a Universe-Attack. It´s more his higherdimensional Existance as the Durability.

Because by this logic,kaguya solos odin via tsukuyomi,because jojo bizzare adventure verse should be regarded as the strongest verse in fiction but they aren't because their said hax doesn't operate on some said fictional characters level. Basically because sin hasn't used his hax on anyone significant except early folder tiers not supreme being of a multi universe. There is a reason why nlf exist for some certain hax that aren't spatial.

Why? Because Kaguya have his Pocket-Dimensions? Don´t worry, that doesen´t make her to 4-D Being, because there is no proof that those Dimensions above the regular Time-Space Concept, or even single Universes. In Magi there are proven by the Scans i already post.

But for example Kaguya vs. Odin:

There are so many things that can Odin do, before Kaguya know what happend, even are both 3-D Charakters. Odin has a lot of more Powers there are curbstomps Kaguya, and he thought he is far stronger. Jojo Bizzare Adventure has only few guys with very absurde Powers, but Hax isn´t all. Hax doesen´t work against every Charakter, but DC can´t be the absolute Reason, why it doesen´t work. There are many ways, to explain alternative Ways.

In a Match 3-D vs. 3-D are Power or DC, Speed, Stamina, Durability, and Hax the answere to win this match. And Odin is far above Kaguya in most or all points. If we take the 3-D Sinbad it will be end the same way. The only guys who can probably buttkick Odin are the Dragon Ball Charakters, some Bastard!!-Charakters, Saint Seiya, and more Beings there are between Galaxy and Universe-Level or higher.

But if we take Kaguya against Zeno, who will win? Zeno is more powerfull then Kaguya and it doesen´t matter in which Pocketdimension she is (It is like, Zamasu hide in Hell), she would be erased, because all Dimensions are bound by the Universe. Also is Zeno a higher Being, so Kaguya can´t even understand his power and being, because he is beyond the Concept of Naruto. And now take Zeno for Kaguya and Sinbad for Zeno. Only that he has relevant feats, he is beyond the Concept of Zeno´s Imagination.

Fights between 3-Ds and 3-Ds or 4-Ds and 4-Ds are better and more realistic matches. Both exist on the same Level, but there are Different Powers, so who wins?

You admitted yourself that sin has dc feat on zenos level,i never said sinbad can't destroy a universe also,i accepted his potentials and speculation. So i don't get where the crushing system is coming from.

I do? I thought i said, he is a higherdimensional Being and Zeno doesen´t have a Chance against him. But the Reason is more that he is what he ist. A higher God.

Fair enough but i gave out my convincing point though.

Yes.

if by boundless you're referring to his solo timelines existence then that's most certainly being debunked.

I mean boundless by the System below the lower dimensional Planes. A guy who is above a universe and above one Timeline is 4-D. Even he is above 12 Universe with 1 Timeline in the Universe he is 4-D. If there are more Universes and more Timelines, but the Charakter can only erased the Universe with one Timeline, then he has no influence about the Multiversal-System (Only a Multi-Universal-System). Is he above the Universes and there entire multi-timelines, then he is a 5-D Charakter, because he isn´t bounded by the second higher Timeline. But in higher Systems are more higher Timelines. Every above those Timelines is boundless by low dimensional Systems. And Beings above the regular dimensional Version 12 or 13, are nearly boundless above every Concept.

Because sinbad doesn't operate on those guys scale,a straightforward answer.

He works, but not as feat as you think. He doesen´t destroy a Multiverse he only said he has the Power to do what he will with, or in this way. Scan is above.

still doesn't operate on the timeline scale like dbz but ok,him moving between timelines can as well be scaled to flash but lemme refrain from going so far.

The timeline scale on DBZ ist far below Magi. Read the Scans, and you find the Answere. And someone like Sinbad has Position as a higher God then Ill Illah. He is above the Concept, he can destroyed, rewrite it, and more. I don´t know where there is DBZ above Magi. Even Zeno von DBS has shown that he isn´t.

Debunked

Not realy, because he destroyed a being that was below Zeno his dimensional scale.

Once again,a regular hakai from beerus erased zamatsu from gokus timeline,it should have erased the zamatsu from trunks timeline as well if it wasn't for the time ring which black explained above to have being his saving grace for basically still existing in the future.

It can´t erased the same Zamasu from the Trunks-Timeline because he was erased from Zeno.

And Beerus kills only a Zamasu without his Superpowers, nor the Knowledge what is happen. Between the Presence and the Futer is a Bound that can´t Beerus and even Zeno can´t erased.

The Sacread Palace still exist, because it isn´t bound by a timeline. It´s exist outside of the Universes, outside of the Timelines and even outside of the higherdimensional construct. Zeno can destroy all Universes in Magi and the Sacred Palace still exist.

who is the low dimensional being again?

All below the dimensional Scale was given. Universal Scale is 3-D. Every on this Scale can harm eachother, but there are too different Abilitys and Power-Levels. Son Goku, Naruto und Luffy, even Ichigo is bounded on the same 3-D Concept. But we know who has the better Stats to curbstomps every of them, So Son Goku would kills thos Low-Level 3-D Charakters. But against a 4-D Charakter or a Charakter that hast the enough Hax to get in this Way he can´t do anything. For example against Infinite Zamasu

This is a sinbad vs zeno and lol at sin being infinite higherdimensional being even though i love him as a character

The Scans should be clear the Situation. But by the Statements he is a infinite higherdimensional being only in a high Multiverse-Construct. That´s why he is 5-D and not 6-D or higher. Infinte isn´t a prove that he is above all dimensional scale, but he is in his dimensional scale. So Zeno can´t harm him on any point.

Its cool mate,hope you get better also.

Thanks. Wow, early ready then i thought.

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EcoBlitz

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#142  Edited By EcoBlitz  Online

@caocao: great just b debunking the dbs fanboys and/or wankers they just ignored my scans though admittedly they were in a spoiler tag

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ElderElijah190

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@caocao: Great and convincing post mate,i would reply by next week but damn,that's gonna be some heck of time taking flaw on my schedules and work activities,considering am like always super busy but let's see if i could wink it a little bit by next week. I feel zeno could gain some credit but oh well,once again a legit post.

Funny part is Sinbad is my best anime character lol. Have always liked his easy going backstabbing villain nature.

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CaoCao

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#144  Edited By CaoCao

@elderelijah190 said:

@caocao: Great and convincing post mate,i would reply by next week but damn,that's gonna be some heck of time taking flaw on my schedules and work activities,considering am like always super busy but let's see if i could wink it a little bit by next week. I feel zeno could gain some credit but oh well,once again a legit post.

Funny part is Sinbad is my best anime character lol. Have always liked his easy going backstabbing villain nature.

Yes, that is the next point, why my answere took so long. I don´t thought that i can already post this week. Posts with more content, take more time. I already take 3 hours, because i have to look the Scans and my own testify. Take your time, the real life is more important then our debate :D And with Zeno: As i said, it is not the problem that i see he es weak (He isn´t), in my oppinion i only don´t see how we can take those very different charakters fight against eachother. For me, both aren´t charakters that realy can "fight" at this point. But thanks.

I have more then one favorit Anime Charakter, but funny is: None of them is from Magi. It isn´t even my Favorit Manga or Anime. I would watch it, but it is not like the other Animes/Mangas that i watch or read. I prefer the DBS Anime, but i don´t know the Manga. DBS is one of the few shonen i prefer but my favorit Genre are more Seinen and a bit questionable Genres in the Anime or Manga-scene xDD

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Red_Leader

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EternalSaiyan32

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@caocao:

quit wanking about limits being shown for zeno, as none were. He erased a timeline due to abstral zamasu taking over it, as such world cant exist.

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CaoCao

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#147  Edited By CaoCao

@eternalsaiyan32 said:

@caocao:

quit wanking about limits being shown for zeno, as none were. He erased a timeline due to abstral zamasu taking over it, as such world cant exist.

Be quiet dog, if you don´t have some relevant feats. Also still not enough, even Sinbad erased a whole "higherdimensional" Universe and rewrite a new World. Show me Zeno can erased a higher concept like a Multiverse. Zeno´s Power lacks by his own existance, i already explain it many times. You are exist more then one time in a different Timeline, so you aren´t above the higher concept:

Dragon Ball is Multiverse, Zeno is by this limit only Multi-Universe. Sinbad is above a higher concept of the Multiverse. You should take you time and read the whole debate, then you maybe understand the concept between DBS and Magi. If you don´t have arguments, or only knew one verse, then let it be.

If you will a respectable discussion, don´t assume me "wanking" because you don´t like it. That is a word, that souldn´t be came from someone who said Zeno is multiversal +. I don´t even use it, even someone and i have a different point of view. To use those words only shown weakness, that someone have no arguments.

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@eternalsaiyan32:

True Immortals can't be killed. That's the point. But only Omnipotents are true Immortals.

And Zeno is Multiversal, but he couldn't destroy the Marvel or DC Multiverse given feats.

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EcoBlitz

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#150 EcoBlitz  Online

Bumped for no reason. Feats have been given, Sinbad>>>>>>>Zeno