Zen’ō vs Sinbad

Again, this line of logic is incorrect. Simply being powerful has literally nothing to do with resisting hax, as actual feats are needed for that.

Also, it would only be an NLF if I was hyping his hax above their observed limits, which I'm not considering the fact that Zeno hasn't shown the ability to deal with said hax.

@valor_175: unfortunately for you but by DB's Logic higher power means hax get's no selled or resisted and we can apply that here as equalization is in place otherwise their powers wouldn't work on eachother period and as shown Frieza can withstand existence erasure from a fraction of Sidra's Haka ki but when Toppo unleashed his it utterly overpowers Frieza and recks the shit out of him because GoD Toppo is stronger than Golden Frieza so since Zeno is top dog we know Hakai existence erasing wouldn't even faze him.

He was compared to Ugo, who already was High Multiversal, since he has his own realm and the total controll above the Magi-Verse. I will make some scans from the Manga, but i need some time.

Oh, that´s easy.

Ugo is on the same Level like Sinbad and, both are far above Ill Illah, a Universal Being. The same Ill Illah thet hold as a pet by Ugo in his own Realm. I will collect the Chapter and Infos this days for you guys.

It´s more a lol that Zeno should beat him.

@god_vulcan: Could you help me explain the fact that general power doesn't allow someone to resist hax? There are two of them and one of me, so it's quite tiring, lol.

Unfortunately for you, this isn't DB, and their logic doesn't carry over to other universes or their respective hax.

I'm getting tired of repeating myself. Unless Zeno has resisted any hax, he can't, it's as simple as that. Zeno could be as powerful as he wants, but without feats of resistance or extremely specific and reliable statements, he won't be able to do anything against it.

In the Magi universe, magic is performed by using magoi (energy from the Rukh, a divine power that makes up all phenomena in the universe). It was explained by Sinbad and Judar that this would include everything from lightning and fire to light and sound. In the Magnostadt Arc, Aladdin dodged multiple light beams from Titus, which were indeed going at the speed of light based on the information we obtained from Sinbad and Judar. Later, after a power-up and an entire timeskip, Sinbad blitzed and dominated Aladdin in a one-on-one fight, making him faster than light by multiple magnitudes. After becoming the guardian of the Sacred Palace, not even the combined efforts of Aladdin, Alibaba, Hakuryuu and Judar could tag him. Meanwhile, you have Zeno with no FTL movement or combat speed feats...

umm how does that make any of them universal by feats? And i didn't know being above a universal being makes you high multiversal,that's an infinite amount of wanking there. Btw,i never knew the magi verse comprises of million of universes which is still considered as multiversal,lol at high multiversal IMO. By actual dc feats,each and everyone sinbad scales to are universal+

Zeno easily deleting an entire timeline consisting of 12 universes in the utmostly easiest way puts him above anything in the magi verse,he litteraly godstomps simbad here.

@caocao:

Sorry but no universal level dc feat was depicted there,i know of those scans already but they lack the dc/battle feats we can work with to change anything here.

What happend here?

Well if we can work or noth. That is the function way of Magi. Not every Verse is impressive like Zeno´s Dragon Ball who destroyed a Universe. That Concept in Magi is complete different to Dragon Ball Super, so why that should be not a feat?

But for the point, he hasn´t some feat how will Zeno beat Sinbad if he isn´t even a higherdimensional Being? Hakai? Destroy Universe? No Chance in this way. The other point: Either Person A has the Potencial to destroy Multiverse or/and he is on a higherdimensional Scale equal to a Multiverse. For a hard Exemple: Nyarlathotep has no relevant Feats to make his Power to al Multiversal our Outer-God Level. But he is a higherdimensional Being (Don´t get me wrong, Nya is far above Sinbad). A higher dimensional being can´t beaten by someone who is a lower dimensional being, unless he has at least Abilitys that are higherdimensional. But both are different types of Existence.

And yeah,zeno is regarded as multi universal even though he erased an entire timeline consisting of 12 universes with utmost ease,a feat Sinbad hasn't achieved anything close to.

Magi has more then one Universe, and Ill Illah isn´t the only God of Magi. There are even higher Gods above Sinbad and Ugo.

A higherimensional Concept far above Dragon Ball Super.

Fictional wise, creation does not = destruction. We deal with feats and Sinbad is basically still universal by said feats. He could be highballed and scaled above though,don't get me wrong.

Well, i total agree. Creation isn´t destruction. But Sinbad alllready shown that he can create and destroyed: The first Page by me is showing the Situation. But, ok this showing ony how he destroyed one Universe with his God. So it will be at least Low-Multi-Universal or Universal + because he destroyed God and Universe side by side.

Zeno doesn't just destroy universes but deletes them alongside the fabric and concept of space itself "basically erasure which sinbad has no answer to". Also,what i meant by timeline was the present magi timeline would get erased as well,zenos erasure also affected zamatsus existence at that particular ark present timeline and not to mention future trunks timeline was erased as well.

The Sacred Place doesen´t have even a Timeline and Magi hasn´t only one Timeline. In the Pictures above you can see the Future with modern Building, etc. Even if Zeno erased one Universe in Magi, he can´t handle against a God from the Sacred Place. The Sacred Place is the Point of All Creation in the Magi-Verse. Not one Universe, not one Timeline.

Also was the Futer Trunks Timeline erased, but not the Parallel-Timeline. We have One Zeno with 12 Universes. 12 Universes with one or 12 Universes with separate Timelines. But in the Trunks Time-Line was another Zeno.

Magi has his own Universes, Hyperdimensions, Time-Space and more. But the Ruler over this is only Sinbad. There is no different Sinbad in the other Timeline, becuase Sinbad create this by his own. We don´t even know if Zeno create Universes.

However, that is the reason, why Sinbad is above Zeno. He is a higherdimensional Being. Maybe not High Multiversal as i said first, but at least multiversal. The points how to see the Statements can be different, so it shouldn´t be a problem.

By the way, even most of the stupid Calc Wikis, takes him to the High Multiverse-Scale. I am not the only one who goes with the Statements this way. Am i wrong? Maybe my explaination is bad, because my english is trash. I can only give you what i have.

Zeno basically owns him quite easily if looked into.

I respect your oppinion, but i must disagree. I know that you disagree my Oppinion too. We can stand by our Explainations, or make a break, becuase i don´t think we came on the same point. I only knew the Dragon Ball Super Anime, but i knew the Magi Manga well. To unterstand the Concept i can take only one or two Scans, because they going belong with a big part of the whole story. Do you read the manga too? I can post more scans if i found the suitable Chapters. (And maybe more explain the context)

@caocao: Basically what you stated,his battle feats puts him at universal when we consider his feats with his god,basically how i scaled him earlier.

That is correct. He destroyed one Universe. But that doesen´t put him to Universe-Level, because he can do this all the day. Also he became the Power of the Universe (See, the Scan i ve allready postet)

Zeno erased an entire timeline consisting of "12 universes"like it was nothing and was playing in a void of nothingness. Note,not even the vacume of space is left after zenos erasure,concept of reality alongside time itself gets deleted if zeno wishes. He would potentialy erase Sinbad from "existence" Sinbad as a god won't be in existence anymore alongside all that exist in his realm,though stated location to be in a planet though.

You mean the Situation against Zamasu? Doesen´t erased only this one Universe?

I wonder why Goku and the others can survive in the Nothingness.

However, a Universe is on a 4-D Scale, Sinbad is at least a 5-D being. How should Zeno erased him, if he isn´t even a 5-D being? Let Zeno erased the Universes in Magi, he doesen´t can enter the Sacred Place, nor get in a other Timeline.

That's basically how zenos erasure works,the said tier he chooses basically cease to exist "Sinbad has no answer to this and said zeno erasure has no bounds"

If that´s the True, then Zeno his erasure is infinite Dimensional, but there is no Point that proves that he is. He only erased Universes, he is bound by his own Timeline (Remember the second Zeno)

You can only erased beings that are lower then you´re own Existance, or on the same Level at max.

Zeno has only shown by Statemend and Power a Low 4-Dimensional Power. But can Zeno from his own World erase the Timeline from the other Zeno? Can he even get in his Verse without a Time Machine? There is no Proof that he can. So, his Power can´t work against Sinbad. By the Logik, Zeno could erase Madoka, Demonbane and Hajiun, because his erasure has no bounds.

There are also dimensions in the dbs verse,heck a single universe in dbs contains dimensions. Zeno is also above all of existence in dbs as he's the omni king. Creation does not = destruction when weighing feats which is why tiers that only has a feat of creating a said universe and so on aren't taking seriously as they're basically featless as to that aspect when it comes to aoe/dc battling feats. Zeno not having a creation feat isn't something to hold him back via battle wise.

The Dimensions in Magi are a bit more diverse then the Dimensions of Dragon Ball Super.

Well, even someone has no feats, it doesen´t make him lose the Battle. Like i said, Nyarlathotep is a very high dimensional being, but has not much feats. Even Zeno has more feats, but if we take the situation for real then we know Nyar is a higher Being then Zeno, That´s like someone is above Zeno, and i don´t think there is any chance zu erased someone who isn´t bound by the Rules of the Universe. Well, Sinbad is far weaker by the herachie of Dimensional Beings, then Nyar. He never can hurt it, but same goes for Zeno, even he destroyed a Universe with Sinbad. He can´t hurt him

because he isn´t in the same league. Feats alone aren´t enough. Both Charakters must be at least the same dimensional Existance. Well, Zeno doesen´t need a Creation feat, but it shows that we don´t know much about him. It is to early and at least, the wrong Enemy. There is nothing that Zeno can do against Sinbad, even if he erased, Jiren and the others. At least, maybe Sinbad can´t beat Zeno too, because as you said (Not enough feats, or not powerfull enough) Sinbad at his Point as a God isn´t a real fighter, even Zeno isn´t a real fighter. That is a fight without quality. Zeno can´t harm Sinbad because he is a higher being and Sinbad can´t harm Zeno, because he hasn´t shown enough feats. That is the only point in my oppinion there is in one way alternative.

You're right tho,we have our different opinion here and our logic could work differently but i advice you look into my point on how zeno edges it quite easily. You can also post other feats if you had like to though,am sure people would want to view them but i already know of said scans.

Don´t worry, i look into your point. I try to find a possibility for Zeno, but that isn´t easy. Not because the feats, because the different Types. Well, i am looking for more. Sinbad´s pure Combat Feats aren´t impressiv, he has shown maybe Continent-Level or something, but if we take the God Sinbad, the Reincarnation of David, then it will be complicated. It is another concept.

The Speed question is hard to assess, because Speed isn´t relevant if he moves outside of time-space continuums. But before he was a god, i think he was MHS+ or maybe Sub-Relativistic.

@caocao: cool analyses there mate but all i have to say here is for one,zero erased a timeline and a timering got erased in the manga. Goku and trunks time travelling back to the future might be because the timeline was basically still undergoing erasure,we know because the timeline erasure statement came later from whis after zeno was brought back. A time ring being erased in the manga indicates a timeline was erased once again,a timeline for one houses 12 universes which zeno theoretically erased,by dc feats,he outclasses sinbad on a large margin but this isn't me lowballing Sinbad though as scaling is allowed to him.

Oh, ok. The process wasn´t completed? Possible, but Zamasu himself was already gone and he was at least one with the Concept of the Universe, or not? Well, by showing feats on a Universal Scale, Zeno has shown more. But only that he erased more then one Universe already and the Statement, that he erased 6 Universe on the same time. This Statement was part of the History, so it is official. Sinbad in the whole Story has shown more feats, like his Magic, Reality Warp, he isn´t bound by Time and Space as he became God, he is immune against Curses, his Regeneration is on a godly niveau, he is immortal, and he write the Story of the World, or better say: He writes the Plot in the Universe(s) That is more that Zeno shown, but by Power: Zeno erased 6 Universes on the same Time, Sinbad doesen´t. But if we take the Situation, then we know that Sinbad has the possibilities. Not showing by feats, but by potencial. And this potencial is far above Zeno, becasue Zeno his Feats are very limitated.

Also,zeno won't have to destroy the universe with him,thats not how his technique works. He could erase him from existence. If am not wrong, Sinbad doesn't have any existence erasure hax defence neither do i think any lower tier which he could scale to in the series does.

Well, that is the problem: If he is a higherdimensional being, Zeno can´t erased him. )Except Zenos Power is on the same higherdimensional number, or higher. If he used his Power against Sinbad he would not hit him, because he doesen´t exist in the dimensional System like the other Guys who exist in Dragon Ball. Here is another Problem: Zeno doesen´t have a similar Gegner in Dragon Ball Super, so we only can speculated. If only feats relevant, then even Naruto beats Azathoth, because he has shown more feats. Feats alone are only relevant, if the dimensional structure the same, or the enemy below this structure. That is what i mean some posts before.

There are fictional charakters, who are higherdimensional. No matter if he has feats or not: If he is a higherdimensional being, then his opponend he is in the hierarchy of beings above him. The next question is, has the higherdimensional being some Powers on his own Level. That´s not ever given, so at least most of the matches ends in Stalemates by Logic. Now is the Question. Does have Sinbad the Power to destroy Zeno. I don´t think so, he never shown. But, we don´t know much about Zeno´s Skills. But Sinbad is above Zeno by be a higher Existance. That is the reason, why i said that Zeno doesen´t have a chance. He can´t understand Sinbad his Niveau, he can´t even touch it. To be frank, it is hard to say who win, because both Universes are very different. Dragon Ball is more a Verse where Power destroyes Hax and even Hax most is a Destruction-Power. In Magi, there is more a Concept and many Statements. The Hax of Magi doesen´t get destroyed by raw Power like in Dragon Ball. There is more "Which Hax is better" Contest.

He would basically seize to exist at whatever scenario "existence erasure" Basically him seizing to exist from every planes of existence he transcends at. Not to mention op stated battle takes on earth. How fast can Sinbad replicate counter measure on zenos erasure? How long does it take him to impose the escape plan u earlier stated? I doubt he knows anything about zeno here also,what are the chance he won't be taking of guard? Battle doesn't even take place in his realm and zeno for one could operate in whatever field he finds himself at. Also,bringing up nyar or demonbane which are hyperversal nigh omnipotent beings doesn't really seem to help your claims here. Demonbane for one has become one with reality as he became to strong for azatoth who is omnipotent to erase. Those guys are riduculous lol.

Yes, but that can only hit someone like Dark Schneider who exist on 3 Planes of existence and he is still a 3-D Charakter, because he exist in a 3-D/4-D System. Well, Zeno is the only guy who can erased him from Dragon Ball (And Tori-Bot), but those guys you can only complete erased if you erased the whole System. And the System in Magi is far higher, because Sinbad isn´t boundet by a Universe or multiple Time-Space Continuums. He lost all this, as he entrance the Sacred place and became God.

You can see, it is different: Sinbad isn´t bounded by an Universe like the Gods of Destruction or Zamasu. He is above those System. He is above this System like Zeno, but it is more that he is every Zeno on the different Timelines in one Person. That is the Different and that make him to a higherdimensional or Multiversal Charakter. But ok, maybe Multiversal and Higher Multiversal are wrong designation. Not every Being that is a "Multiversal Charakter", means he can erased a Multiverse. He only exist on the higherdimensional Plane to be one with the Multiverse. That is for example what i hate on those Calc-Sides. They doesent´t make a difference between the Destructive Power and the dimensional Plane of the Charakters. Someone exist above infinite Timelines and Universes? So, he can destroyed it. That is no proof that he can, but it isn´t relevant in a fight. No one on a smaller dimensional scale can harm him, except there is a proof that the opponent have a higherdimensional power. But Zeno doesen´t shown, he by himself exist only in the Timeline of 12 Universes. In the other Timeline, there are other Zeno´s. And as i said: Sinbad isn´t the higherst being in Magi. There countless Gods for every Universe and his different Timelines.

Well, i know because Sinbad isn´t on the same Level like Nyar or Demonbane. But, it was only a comparson what higherdimensional Beings are. Even if Zeno try to erased Sinbad on earth, then he can´t erased him. He can destroy the whole Universe with Sinbad, it doesn´t make it different. He isn´t bound by this Universe, so he can exist outside of the Universe and outside everything that can erased Space and even Time. If we take this match for real, then is even the Sinbad who fight against Zeno only an Avatar, because Sinbad "exist" only in the Sacred Place. If we take the normal Sinbad without God Powers, or the Sinbad who lose all this Powers, then yes: Zeno will murderstomp him. But if we take The one above all Gods in Magi, then i don´t see how Zeno can erased him.

I do agree it could go either way though as you have your opinion and i have mine. Nice debate though.