Zaheer vs Azula

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#301 Posted by RBT (29463 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@anthp2000 said:
@rbt said:

Zaheer. IIRC, he beat Super Korra.

He evaded with flight while she was dying from poison. The one time he faught a bender/fighter on Azula's level (Tenzin), he got trashed.

That could just be a feat for Tenzin. And the location here is much more suitable for Zaheer than it is for Azula.

So you think Zaheer and Tenzin are > the Avatar State?

Not really. Could Zaheer even fly when he fought Tenzin? If he could, he didn't fly once for some reason. I don't see Zaheer doing well against Avatar State without his flight. His flight is a a huge advantage.

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#302 Posted by katrurius17 (1417 posts) - - Show Bio

Zaheer without void loses badly, Zaheer with void loses after a bit of a fight.

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#303 Posted by thebuckaronatr (1986 posts) - - Show Bio

@alsimmons77 said:
@darthfallax said:

S&S Azula beats pre-flight Zaheer low-mid diff, EoS Azula beats PF Zaheer with mid-diff at best, and either one beats Flight Zaheer mid-high diff. Flight isn't a really huge amp for 1 v 1s imo.

That being said, Zaheer is awesome. Come at me.

I second all of that.

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#304 Posted by DarthFallax (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: No, Zaheer wasn't able to fly against Zaheer. I mean, Void yZaheer is significantly better than pre-Void Zaheer, but the only thing he did against AS Korra was running away. That's it.

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#305 Posted by RBT (29463 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: No, Zaheer wasn't able to fly against Zaheer. I mean, Void yZaheer is significantly better than pre-Void Zaheer, but the only thing he did against AS Korra was running away. That's it.

He tagged her a couple of times. But yes, I didn't remember the fight scene correctly.

Regardless, I don't think Zaheer needs to have beaten Korra to beat Azula. His flight is a huge advantage against someone like her. He likely takes this.

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#306 Posted by ANTHP2000 (29640 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@darthfallax said:

@rbt: No, Zaheer wasn't able to fly against Zaheer. I mean, Void yZaheer is significantly better than pre-Void Zaheer, but the only thing he did against AS Korra was running away. That's it.

He tagged her a couple of times. But yes, I didn't remember the fight scene correctly.

Regardless, I don't think Zaheer needs to have beaten Korra to beat Azula. His flight is a huge advantage against someone like her. He likely takes this.

Because he's inferior at everything except mobility which won't help because he needs to get close to fight, and he's well, forced to fight because this is the battle forum?

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#307 Posted by RBT (29463 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@rbt: No, Zaheer wasn't able to fly against Zaheer. I mean, Void yZaheer is significantly better than pre-Void Zaheer, but the only thing he did against AS Korra was running away. That's it.

He tagged her a couple of times. But yes, I didn't remember the fight scene correctly.

Regardless, I don't think Zaheer needs to have beaten Korra to beat Azula. His flight is a huge advantage against someone like her. He likely takes this.

Because he's inferior at everything except mobility which won't help because he needs to get close to fight, and he's well, forced to fight because this is the battle forum?

Why would he need to get close to fight? He is an airbender. He was sucking the oxygen out of Korra's body from a distance and has just as much range as Azula. He doesn't need to go h2h at all.

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#308 Posted by DarthFallax (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Void Zaheer seems to be a absolute powerhouse, but his feats don't quite stack up.

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#309 Posted by ANTHP2000 (29640 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@anthp2000 said:
@rbt said:

@rbt: No, Zaheer wasn't able to fly against Zaheer. I mean, Void yZaheer is significantly better than pre-Void Zaheer, but the only thing he did against AS Korra was running away. That's it.

He tagged her a couple of times. But yes, I didn't remember the fight scene correctly.

Regardless, I don't think Zaheer needs to have beaten Korra to beat Azula. His flight is a huge advantage against someone like her. He likely takes this.

Because he's inferior at everything except mobility which won't help because he needs to get close to fight, and he's well, forced to fight because this is the battle forum?

Why would he need to get close to fight? He is an airbender. He was sucking the oxygen out of Korra's body from a distance and has just as much range as Azula. He doesn't need to go h2h at all.

No one talked about h2h, she's superior in everything that counts except for mobility, including speed and bending skill or raw power.

The oxygen sucking won't work on anyone who isn't half dead or a helpless old lady, and I'm confident someone like Azula is neither of those things.

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#310 Posted by ANTHP2000 (29640 posts) - - Show Bio

For the record, I can see plenty other benders replicating Zaheer's lasting against dying AS Korra.

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#311 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (1236 posts) - - Show Bio

@morbusgrav said:
@alsimmons77 said:
@darthfallax said:

S&S Azula beats pre-flight Zaheer low-mid diff, EoS Azula beats PF Zaheer with mid-diff at best, and either one beats Flight Zaheer mid-high diff. Flight isn't a really huge amp for 1 v 1s imo.

That being said, Zaheer is awesome. Come at me.

I second all of that.

Sums it up.

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#312 Posted by Wrathofthebrad (1236 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@darthfallax said:

@rbt: No, Zaheer wasn't able to fly against Zaheer. I mean, Void yZaheer is significantly better than pre-Void Zaheer, but the only thing he did against AS Korra was running away. That's it.

He tagged her a couple of times. But yes, I didn't remember the fight scene correctly.

Regardless, I don't think Zaheer needs to have beaten Korra to beat Azula. His flight is a huge advantage against someone like her. He likely takes this.

What has Zaheer ever actually done that puts him close to Kemurikage Azula, let alone would let him even beat her?

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#313 Posted by RBT (29463 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@rbt: No, Zaheer wasn't able to fly against Zaheer. I mean, Void yZaheer is significantly better than pre-Void Zaheer, but the only thing he did against AS Korra was running away. That's it.

He tagged her a couple of times. But yes, I didn't remember the fight scene correctly.

Regardless, I don't think Zaheer needs to have beaten Korra to beat Azula. His flight is a huge advantage against someone like her. He likely takes this.

What has Zaheer ever actually done that puts him close to Kemurikage Azula, let alone would let him even beat her?

His flight is a huge advantage, IMO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Azula ever tagging anyone who can move as fast as Zaheer does.

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#314 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (1236 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

His flight is a huge advantage, IMO.

But his flight makes not even nearly up for all other regards in which he is significantly weaker than especially Kemurikage Azula.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Azula ever tagging anyone who can move as fast as Zaheer does.

The faster Aang, several times. Zaheer on the other hand completely failed to tag Tenzin even just once on his own.

Zaheer could certainly run away with his flying like against half-dead Korra, but he can't win the fight like that.

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#315 Posted by RBT (29463 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad:

But his flight makes not even nearly up for all other regards in which he is significantly weaker than especially Kemurikage Azula.

Why does he need to be better than Azula in raw bending power when she can't even touch him?

The faster Aang, several times.

And particular instance you can think of? The one time she did some decent damage was when he was transforming into Avatar state and was perfectly still.

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#316 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (1236 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

Why does he need to be better than Azula in raw bending power when she can't even touch him?

Because running away let you don't win fights?

How should he beat her while being inferior in anything actually fighting related, besides agility/maneuverability?

And particular instance you can think of?

In many of their fights, he just got usually saved after that.

The one time she did some decent damage was when he was transforming into Avatar state and was perfectly still.

Did you just call basically killing Aang, some decent damage?

I saved a few gifs from an older thread i'vei just read here, as Azula blasted Aang against the wall of Ba Sing Se and even kocked him out as example(she even simultaneously dodged an attack of him):

No Caption Provided

This here is very interessting even though he was able to(barely) defend himself, Azula stopped Aang as he tried to fly away:

No Caption Provided

It also reminded me that Aang actually tagged her less often than Azula him, i think just in the triple fight with Zuko really as she was balancing on the edge of the destroyed building and the shockwave as he destroyed the drill.

Azula without bending, even several time there but i have just one gif:

No Caption Provided

This was no attack of him, but a pretty impressive showing for both in my opinion:

No Caption Provided

And i think this was right at the end of that(she also attacks him right after that):

No Caption Provided

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#317 Posted by RBT (29463 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad:

Because running away let you don't win fights?

How should he beat her while being inferior in anything actually fighting related, besides agility/maneuverability?

Who said anything about running? He can maintain his distance and use offensive airbending when there's an opening. Like he was doing against Korra. Even before the poison took effect completely.

Did you just call basically killing Aang, some decent damage?

Not the point I was trying to make. Point is, she tagged him when he wasn't moving.

None of the gifs you posted implies that Azula can tag Zaheer. The one time she stopped Aang from flying away, he wasn't even looking at her and couldn't react to her attack. Zaheer, on other hand, was dodging attacks from Korra at close range while in mid flight. The fact that Azula can't even close the distance between them means Zaheer has all the time to dodge her attacks and only close in when he sees an opening. That was his whole strategy against Korra. The gifs you posted does show that she can take him down if she connects, but I doubt that will happen in first place.

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#318 Edited by Wrathofthebrad (1236 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

Who said anything about running?

It's the only thing really impressive he ever did.

He can maintain his distance and use offensive airbending when there's an opening. Like he was doing against Korra. Even before the poison took effect completely.

Azula would neither following him nor give him any openings while he is on distance, so clearly no.

Not the point I was trying to make. Point is, she tagged him when he wasn't moving.

She also tagged him while he was moving.

None of the gifs you posted implies that Azula can tag Zaheer.

How about you post something that shows that he can tag Azula, considering how easily Tenzin schooled him?

The one time she stopped Aang from flying away, he wasn't even looking at her and couldn't react to her attack

Did you saw another gif than me?

Zaheer, on other hand, was dodging attacks from Korra at close range while in mid flight.

How is that impressive at all, considering the actual attacks?

The fact that Azula can't even close the distance between them

Which she still don't even needs to, except he is running away again but that simply counts as loss for him.

means Zaheer has all the time to dodge her attacks and only close in when he sees an opening. That was his whole strategy against Korra.

So Zaheer is flying away to gain distance and maybe attacks from there, how should that ever give him any opening at all from the vastly superior fighter Azula?

She can simply wait, defend a bit and dodge a bit, the only one who gives openings in such a situation is obviously Zaheer anytime he comes closer.

The gifs you posted does show that she can take him down if she connects, but I doubt that will happen in first place.

Either he is running away and loses like that, keeps his distance and it's kind of a stalemate(but even then are her distance blasts more potent than his) or comes closer and loses.

So i still go with Azula beats Zaheer mid-high diff if he has flight and low-mid diff without it, because just flight don't gives him nearly enough to make up for all his shortcomings against her.

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#319 Posted by Alsimmons77 (1949 posts) - - Show Bio

Zaheer without void loses badly, Zaheer with void loses after a bit of a fight.

This, but Zaheer is indeed a great character.

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#320 Posted by RBT (29463 posts) - - Show Bio

@wrathofthebrad:

It's the only thing really impressive he ever did. Azula would neither following him nor give him any openings while he is on distance, so clearly no.

Based on what? Aang could match her blow for blow. And he didn't even have flight.

She also tagged him while he was moving.

Not saying she didn't, but a gif would be nice.

How about you post something that shows that he can tag Azula, considering how easily Tenzin schooled him?

That was Zaheer who couldn't fly, who I agree would loose to Azula.

How is that impressive at all, considering the actual attacks?

How is it not? Azula's attacks aren't any faster than Korra's and both of them can be telegraphed.

So Zaheer is flying away to gain distance and maybe attacks from there, how should that ever give him any opening at all from the vastly superior fighter Azula?

She can simply wait, defend a bit and dodge a bit, the only one who gives openings in such a situation is obviously Zaheer anytime he comes closer.

And how long is she going to keep it up? Zaheer has better chances of tagging her while in flight than she has of tagging him.

Either he is running away and loses like that, keeps his distance and it's kind of a stalemate(but even then are her distance blasts more potent than his) or comes closer and loses.

So i still go with Azula beats Zaheer mid-high diff if he has flight and low-mid diff without it, because just flight don't gives him nearly enough to make up for all his shortcomings against her.

I agree that Zaheer would loose if he didn't use his flight, but so far, I have seen nothing from anyone that suggests Azula can even tag Zaheer when he is in flight.

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#321 Posted by RaimundoPedrosa (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

I agree that Zaheer would loose if he didn't use his flight, but so far, I have seen nothing from anyone that suggests Azula can even tag Zaheer when he is in flight.

If Zaheer can fly, then we should give kemurikage Azula Sozin's Comet.

In that case, I don't even think that Zaheer would any longer have his speed or agility advantage. She could easily fly to keep up with him and shoot a quick and easy bolt of lightning that would cripple him. He could try to take her breath away, but unlike the Earth Queen, Azula's much more than a defenseless old lady.

Zaheer would tell kemurikage Azula that he didn't believe in princesses. Kemurikage Azula would then laugh and say that she no longer cares to be a princess or about the monarchy. She would say that she doesn't even care about her father or brother anymore.

Zaheer would then ask her if she was an anarchist. Azula would then say that she still wants power and to take control of things, but not as a princess. This would inevitably make her more like Kuvira, an authoritarian fascist.

Zaheer would then let go of his earthly tethers and get ready to pummel Azula.

Kemurikage Azula would then get Sozin's Comet on a beautiful summer day.

Zaheer would fly and zip by her. Kemurikage Azula with Sozin's Comet would also fly and chase after him. Both would be fast. Both would agile (though Zaheer more so).

However, while Zaheer would successfully dodge kemurikage Azula's fire during Sozin's Comet, he would not be able to dodge lightning that's as fast as hers during Sozin's Comet.

At first, I was going to mention how Aang managed to successfully dodge Ozai's lightning with just airbending a couple times... but then I remembered that Aang, Tenzin, Korra, and Jinora are far better airbenders than Zaheers (masters). So, actually, Aang can't be compared. And eventually, even Aang had to stay and redirect.

So, I don't think that Zaheer could keep up for long. If Zaheer flies, then kemurikage Azula gets Sozin's Comet and takes a while to kill him, but does it anyway.

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#322 Posted by RaimundoPedrosa (1092 posts) - - Show Bio
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#323 Posted by RaimundoPedrosa (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that Azula can appear everywhere at once (as per Smoke and Shadow Part 3 when she and Zuko fight and she talks to him from all directions at once), even flight won't save Zaheer from getting stricken by her lightning to the face, throat, abdominal, and nuts.

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#324 Posted by Crimson-Feather (183 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula should take this fight without much hassle.

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#325 Posted by Alsimmons77 (1949 posts) - - Show Bio

@katrurius17 said:

Zaheer without void loses badly, Zaheer with void loses after a bit of a fight.

This, but Zaheer is indeed a great character.

Anyting was said, 1 and a half years ago.

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#326 Posted by mialthefencer (367 posts) - - Show Bio

Zaheer wins solidly - flight is a huge advantage. Without flight he'd lose, but he would put up a very solid fight.

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#327 Posted by gunchar16 (2002 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula destroys Zaheer hard, withour or with flight.

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#328 Posted by katrurius17 (1417 posts) - - Show Bio

S&S Azula beats pre-flight Zaheer low-mid diff, EoS Azula beats PF Zaheer with mid-diff at best, and either one beats Flight Zaheer mid-high diff. Flight isn't a really huge amp for 1 v 1s imo.

That being said, Zaheer is awesome. Come at me.

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#329 Posted by geekryan (5444 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula.

Without flight, she wins low-mid difficulty.

With flight, she wins mid difficulty.

Flight won’t help much against instant lightning. Zaheer is also an inferior airbender than Aang and Azula matched/beat him on several occassions.

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#330 Posted by mialthefencer (367 posts) - - Show Bio

After I finish one of my current CaVs (Combustion Man vs Kuvira and Wan vs Tenzin) I'd be willing to rep Void Zaheer against Kemurikage Azula.

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#331 Posted by Oreoghoul (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula

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#332 Posted by thebluedragon20 (31 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula wins low difficulty, she matched and has even been able to get an upper hand against

Aang who is >>>>than Zaheer. The only categories in which he has an advantage is h2h (which is minimal considering Azula herself is great at h2h) and movement speed with flight.

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#333 Posted by Amendment50 (15844 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#334 Posted by chloros (242 posts) - - Show Bio

Zaheer without void loses badly, Zaheer with void loses after a bit of a fight.

I agree with this. 🌺

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#335 Posted by Tektonic (1391 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm actually fairly confident Void Zaheer can beat any version of Azula.

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#336 Posted by DJudgment (526 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula fairly easily.

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#337 Posted by Captain_Narlowe (228 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula for the easy win, but Zaheer could flee from her and search for opponents he could beat if it's Zaheer after void.

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#338 Posted by Itachus17 (3740 posts) - - Show Bio

No void: Azula casually walks right through Zaheer.

Void: Azula effortlesly dodges and deflects all of Zaheer's long-ranged attacks, waits for him to come closer and murders him.

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#339 Posted by Earendill (1491 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula stomps.

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#340 Posted by Earendill (1491 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula stomps.

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#341 Posted by thebluedragon20 (31 posts) - - Show Bio

Zaheer with or without flight probably can,t even tag Azula, her agility and speed is greater than Zaheer even with airbending. and even flight will have trouble evading her instant lightning.

Azula stomps

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#342 Posted by Unlimited1 (1295 posts) - - Show Bio

Zaheer wins mid diff.

Online
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#343 Posted by Wrathofthebrad (1236 posts) - - Show Bio

@chloros said:
@katrurius17 said:

Zaheer without void loses badly, Zaheer with void loses after a bit of a fight.

I agree with this. 🌺

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#344 Posted by jonjizz (1364 posts) - - Show Bio

yea going with azula, even flying i doubt he could dodge lightning

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#345 Posted by vengefulshot (2205 posts) - - Show Bio

@tektonic said:

I'm actually fairly confident Void Zaheer can beat any version of Azula.

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#346 Posted by ANTHP2000 (29640 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula kills him while wondering what she's doing with her life.