@etheral_dreams: That's firebending, of course he can't make fire he's still underwater. Also that is an assumption too. For all we know that's the fastest he can do that. You'll have to wait until the next episodes to say that.
Zaheer vs Azula
@lilben42: The only bit that was an assumption was the part that I said was an assumption.
It took him about 2.5 seconds to remove the breath from her lungs. That is timeable. The time it takes to suffocate someone after that is inconsequential when disregarding external forces such as other benders.
Because if you take someone's breath away, you're taking away their ability to function. People can hold their breath for 2-5 minutes, depending on fitness, and that affords them time to do whatever they need to do within that time should the situation call for it, because their lungs have a healthy store of oxygen, much more than the arterial system can take in any one cycle.
But you take their breath away, they're essentially functionless. The only oxygen then still in the body is what is in the blood, and at any given time, half of your blood is deoxygenated. Meaning that an average woman will have about 1.5ltrs of oxygenated blood still in her system at this point. And assuming she has an average percentage solution of hemoglobin in her blood stream, she has 304.95ml of oxygen in her cardiovascular system.
Working muscles, i.e. the muscles she would be using to run towards him, or launch some sort of attack, take 3 times as much oxygen as resting muscles. Resting cardiac output is about 5 litres per minute, giving someone about 18 seconds of normal function at a rested rate before systems start shutting down, if they only have access to the 1.5ltrs of oxygenated blood. Active Cardiac output is 20-25 litres per minute, giving someone 4.5-3.6 seconds of normal function at an active rate, if they only have access to the 1.5ltrs of oxygenated blood.
There is a reason you breath so heavily when exercising, even if you're an Olympiad.
So, in a fight, she would be in active state, meaning she'd be pumping 20+ litres of blood per minute, giving her a generous 4-5 seconds before she passes out due to complete lack of oxygenation. And that isn't even getting into the winding factor. Have you ever been winded? The sheer shock of expelling air that you weren't intending to expel incapacitates you. usually for a lot longer than 4-5 seconds, and that's with the ability to breath in more oxygen, which your body will start telling you to do at an increased rate because it thinks it's running out and the sympathetic nerves are demanding an increase in oxygen intake. Hence why winded people often pant so heavily.
People are just dismissing this because it's not as flashy or imposing as lightning, nor as exotic as blood bending. But in my opinion, this is the single most OP form of bending we've seen. It doesn't take particularly long to achieve it, no longer than lightning, and it requires no external juice like a full moon. This is something any accomplished air bender could theoretically do at any given time, and it literally gives their opponents mere seconds to react before they're physically unable to. Do me a favour, breath out completely, get rid of all the air in your lungs, and then try walking. See how far you get before you absolutely need to take a breath. Then imagine you can't take a breath, and how much panic that would cause you.
As for Zuko, he had air in his lungs. Maybe not much, but enough. 2 Fire bending masters have explicitly stated that Fire bending power comes from the breath, you take that away and they're powerless.
I'd also like to add that I imagine that this is the technique Gyatzo used on the troop of Fire Bender corpses found around his body. Just a guess, but it would make perfect sense that someone noted as the greatest living airbender during his lifetime would not only be able to do as Zaheer did, but to multiple people too.
That one is an assumption.
@abandon4093: So I just looked at the first episode when Iroh talks about making fire and it does come from the breath. But it still doesn't exclude the fact that he probably wouldn't be able to do that. If you look at all her past fights she doesn't let up for a second. The Earth Queen was an easy target. It actually took Zaheer about 6 seconds to get all the air out of her lungs.
I honestly don't think it would be hard to do that move on someone, if you go to the front page someone posted a video if zaheer doing it to the earth queen. Go watch it, and watch the timer on the bottom. He starts the move at 13 seconds in, by 14 air starts coming out, just before 16 all of her air is out and she's reeling over in shock. It doesn't take anything like 6 seconds, and it's not really something that could miss.
Granted we don't know its range, but he's not aiming an attack. He's drawing something out of someone. In that regard it's closer to blood bending than lightning, and we've never seen someone miss with that.
@lilben42: Fair enough, I was probably initially timing it to when the air starts coming out and got confused.
Still, as soon as it starts coming out, it's pretty much to late. Because that's gonna throw you way off, you're not gonna be in any state to do anything.
@abandon4093: I would say Zaheer would probably win if he got the chance and decided use the technique but I doubt he would get the chance. He'd be too busy trying to stay alive.
@lilben42: Oh, no doubt it'd be one hell of a fight. But he's more than agile, cunning and strong enough to pull it off.
Azula may have been a fire bending prodigy, but she wasn't even the best firebender of her day. Both Iroh and Ozai were better than her, and technically combustion man too. The only real edge she had was her agility. The blue flame was more pomp than actual power differential. Ozais flames were standard orange, and they were much more devastating during the comet than Azulas were.
I'd give the fight to zahir even without the asphyxiation trick. Air is just a better element than Fire in my opinion, and Zaheer clearly isn't held back by the moral code of the traditional air benders, even if he does adhere to their philosophies most of the time. 1 air blade = game over.
@abandon4093: I wouldn't say more cunning he really hasn't shown to be that brilliant at all yet. Combustion man wasn't shown to be a great firebender in fact the only reason he was a threat was because hecould make explosions with his mind. I've always seen all the elements as equal. Imagine Katara vs Toph vs Aang (only using air) vs Zuko. I don't know who would win?
@lilben42: So far he's been quite witty in battle, like Anng, but yea. He's not really had any mad genius feats yet. Here's hoping he will do, because I can't see a reason why he'd be locked away so securely by the white lotus as a non bender, if he wasn't some insane strategist.
I say combustion man because combustion is supposed to be like top tier fire bending. It may be unfair to count him though, he and p'li could just be freaks. The double jointed of the bending world if you will. Lol
As for thar fight, toph is probably the most gifted bender, I'd put money on her over katara or zuko, but she'd be really susceptible to Aangs fighting style. Like in the earth bending tournament.
But yea, all the elements are supposed to be equal, it's just that air seems to be the most dynamic. Although, arguably the least lethal under normal circumstances.
@lilben42: So far he's been quite witty in battle, like Anng, but yea. He's not really had any mad genius feats yet. Here's hoping he will do, because I can't see a reason why he'd be locked away so securely by the white lotus as a non bender, if he wasn't some insane strategist.
I say combustion man because combustion is supposed to be like top tier fire bending. It may be unfair to count him though, he and p'li could just be freaks. The double jointed of the bending world if you will. Lol
As for thar fight, toph is probably the most gifted bender, I'd put money on her over katara or zuko, but she'd be really susceptible to Aangs fighting style. Like in the earth bending tournament.
But yea, all the elements are supposed to be equal, it's just that air seems to be the most dynamic. Although, arguably the least lethal under normal circumstances.
Toph almost seemed like the most powerful bender to me in Team Avatar (Pre-Season 3), sans Avatar State Aang.
Zaheer doesn't allow her to breathe.
Also, is it true that they're being pulled from television? If so, where are they putting the digital episodes?
@abandon4093: airbenders probably seem the best because they are kind of unpredictable since no one has fought one in 175 yrs. But with all of them coming back It should get easier.
We need more time with Zaheer, he hasn't really FOUGH anyone that powerful alone. Azula has beaten aang, Zuko, and etc.
Plus she's a lot more Ruthless.
He beat Kya. That was kinda impressive. That and when he broke out his old buddies, he showed some good feats.
Zaheer has good feats, Azula has great ones, like holding her own against Airo.
You mean Iroh?
To my knowledge, she never held her own. She sucker-blasted him once and all other encounters ended with her getting stomped.
There were many encounters as I recall.
Those are bad feats, that was when Iroh wasn't even trying. Iroh could effortlessly murderstomp her with a finger if he wanted.
@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: It's on Nickelodeon but I use animeflavor because it's faster. Or you can find the episodes on YouTube.
@lilben42: I meant more dynamic as in how it augments every facet of their lifestyles.
Like reducing wind resistance to move abnormally fast, or using it to propel their bodies for super increased jumps, agility and momentum. Or using their breathing techniques to remain warm in extreme cold without excess clothing, or enhancing their hearing to alert them to distant danger, even using air currents to sense attacks before they reach them.
I don't think any other bending form is quite as dynamic as air, but it could be argued that they pay for that by a decrease in lethality for their standard movesets. Although I'd say it's debatable whether that's the case, or simply that air benders tend to practice pacifism.
Azula. Better feats.
Z'
Zaheer obviously. His new power of flight changes this fight a lot. Not to mention he was skilled enough to fight Tonraq, Kya, Tenzin, & Korra. He also caused a snow storm with his airbending. Azula is kinda overrated. Not to mention she lost to Katara (despite having limited water) while she was crazy and had sozin's comet...
Um no First off Flight only allows him better avenues for escape. He still needs to enter her range to attack and then he will be counter attacked. If anything the flight only makes it so that they spend the time watching each other instead of Azula slaughtering him
Furthermore how is Azula over -rated. She deserves all the hype. She was able to keep up with and beat on occasion the Avatar. Heck even when she lost her bending Aang said she was too fast for him to pin down. She has feats aplenty and would give Zaheer a run for his money
Zaheer lost to Tenzin (badly)
He beat Tonraq once (the other time they were interrupted by P'li) and heck the only reason he beat Tonraq is because the man had only one bottle of water with him and when that ran out he couldn't do anything.
Kya lost due to PIS, but I will give him that fight he did beat her. But looking at Kya's feats I would say that just about anyone from the original team could beat her.
Azula on the other hand has beaten the Avatar and crown prince zuko. Both of whom were masters.
Being crazy reduces ones battle power immensely. Heck even Zuko was able to beat her ( or at least be wining the fight). He himself said that she was weakened. And furthermore having all that firepower is moot if she wasn't of the soundness of mind to use it. I also think it counts more towards katara's skill rather than Azulas lack of, that she was able to beat her. Heck even while crazy and unhinged azula had one heck of a fight sequence.
Azula would kill Zaheer I must say
Zaheer wins. He stops her from breathing.
Yes, Azula was a very talented prodigy, but she's losing nonetheless.
I don't see Azula standing still and taking that air stealing technigue......I mean really where was it at in every fight before and after the Earth Queen?
Azula is extremely hard to hit.....even with air, and every draw and lost she suffered was do to outside factors. (Even Zukos draw is in question) If she's in the mindset she was in during Book 2 then she can win this fight quickly just through surprise evasion and quick bending. Put her in place of Kya in their fight and Zaheer doesn't do nearly as well...and likely gets put down on escape.
That said if she doesn't take it quickly she's going to lose because Zaheer and his tornados are extremely large in scale and Azula doesn't have much that can counter that let alone dodge it.
6/10 Azula, because as the fight with Kya and Tenzin showed, on a smaller scale battle Zaheer can be overwhelmed while defending.
This is a tough one, but I think Azula would ultimately win because she could shoot lightning and fire at him.
It looks to me that Zaheer's only option with her is going to be to try and bend the air out of her lungs, and to be honest, I don't think she is going to allow him a chance to do that. I'm certain that if Zaheer got within range of her to bend their air out of her lungs, she would just shoot lightning at him, even if he can fly. I don't see how that would be much different from being within range of P'Li, who I also believe would beat him in a fight for the fact that airbending (although my favorite kind) doesn't have much going for it in terms of attacks.
Assuming she goes into the fight with no knowledge of his ability to bend air out of someone's lungs, I still say she'd shoot lightning or fire at him within a few seconds. She's the quickest thinker in the Avatarverse as far as improvising and adapting. To name a few instances: when she recognized Aang as the Avatar as soon as she saw him, when she immediately caught on to the false trail of Appa's hair, when she took the opportunity to killshot Aang in the Avatar state, and that weird "people person" thing she does. I would consider it out of character for Azula not to be able to catch on to Zaheer's trump card within the timeframe it needs to be executed.
Azula beating Zuko doesn't put her above Zaheer, because Zuko would not best Zaheer even in "The Legend of Korra". To hear Zuko say that each of these four can take on ANY bender... and Zuko IS am individual bender... shows that Zuko would lose.
But Azula did stand her ground against Aang a few times and, as we saw before, Zaheer can't beat masters like Tenzin. So, I think that Azula can beat him, given how well she always did against Aang... but then again, Aang's a moral fighter, whereas Zaheer is more ruthless like Azula.
I think that it could go either way. Hell, Suyin and Lin together, despite both being masters, couldn't touch him.
So, Zaheer will give her hell.
Also, if Zaheer stops her breathing, then doesn't that stop her firebending, since Iroh said that breath of fire is the most important thing in firebending?
I'd say Zaheer. If Azula attacks him like she did with Aang, then Zaheer could certainly defend against her onslaught as well. What's more, Zaheer isn't afraid to retaliate. It would be a hard fight. After a long battle I think Zaheer takes a 7/10 advantage.
He would let Azula come at him until she tired or made a mistake. Once that happened he'd turn one of his evasive moves into an offensive strike.
I see Azula winning by overwhelming Zaheer or by catching him with lightning. Lightning is always a wild card because of how fractured it is. If Zaheer is caught with a strike he could go down.
But I feel more comfortable saying Zaheer takes an advantage. It doesn't mean Azula couldn't beat him but I don't think she takes a majority.
Also, I do not agree that Zaheer could stomp with suffocation. To me, that is clearly a finishing move, not something he could do on a whim.
There are only 2 possible outcomes:
1. Azula kills him with a Lightning, since her ligthnings are quite deadly, and even if 1 lightning doesn't kill him, she can always give him a final blow after that.
2. Zaheer kills her through suffocation; since as Iroh said, true firebending power comes not from physical size or strength, but rather from the very control of one's breath, and Zaheer would control Azula's breath.
Stand by, I may retract my previous post. I just re-watched all of the Azula-centric episodes and before she went crazy, she really didn't have many flaws in her combative skill. This may be a very good match up. I'm going to re-watch all of Zaheer's scenes now . . . For now, I'd say this is a 6/10 Azula advantage.
@emanresu-eht those are hardly the only two possible outcomes. Really, both of those are finishing moves that aren't really used by Zaheer or Azula against opponents who can fight back
Exactly.
L. D.
A flying Zaheer should also obliterate Azula (in a hard fight), even when she's amped in Sozin's Comet.
Edit: I think Zaheer actually loses the second round. Idk who wins on the first.
Still Azula. But it's a good fight.
lol at the suffocation tehcnique being applicable in battle.
@znikt: He isn't even capable of doing that here so he gets decimated, tf are you talking about Azula is one of the greatest benders, she's a league ahead of Aang. Rewatch the show, yes Aang would try to avoid her mostly but whenever he tried fighting she still stomped him. Don't downplay Zuko either, he'd stomp Zaheer.
@huskii: Zaheer pulled the air out of Korra while she was in the avatar state, how about you rewatch the show. Aang's villians have only ever been a threat to him because he allowed them to be because of plot! Without it he would speed blitz anyone easily and that's clear especially in 'Day of Black Sun' no way Azula outspeed Aang without her bending and he bends more than her but for some reason was using small air attacks! He always wins whenever he wants
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