Zaheer (TLOK) vs Bellatrix Lestrange and Antonin Dolohov (Harry Potter)

Zaheer

Death Eaters duo

• In character and going for the kill
• Peak version
• Composite HP characters
• The Dark Wizards are willing to work perfectly together
• Basic knowledge
• Take place in Hogwarts Great Hall
• Start 20 ft away facing each other

Round 2

Snape join the the Death Eathers team

Honestly, either could solo Zaheer.

He has good mobility, but all of his attacks can be countered with magic. The wizards can also teleport to avoid attacks, and they have many ways to one-shot Zaheer

It's got to be Zaheer, his flight gives him the requisite mobility to avoid anything they would be likely to do and his airbending offense is going to be troublesome for them to deal with

The battle takes place in the Great Hall, so his mobility is somewhat limited.

Any spell is guaranteed to one-shot him.

As for his offence, they can easily apparate away or can fly around as black smoke like in the films. There's also a more direct counter in Shield Charms.

Bellatrix compilation video

Bellatrix RT (books)

Dolohov has far fewer feats, but he's an expert duellist that scales above Harry, Ron, Hermione, Lupin, and Mad Eye Moody.

@geekryan: His mobility is still greater than Bell's or Dolohov's. Even if they can fly, his is much smoother and faster.

Which spells do they consistently use, other than the Killing Curse, would one shot Zaheer?

I'm aware of their abilities but Zaheer just impresses me more. Airbending is barely visible, if at all (not entirely clear in series) and can send people flying massive distances as well as blow through attacks. And apparition isn't possible in Hogwarts anyway.

Missed the bonus round and agree they win there btw

In such an enclosed space, I don't see his mobility being significantly better than theirs. I had forgotten about the apparition not working in Hogwarts, but they can still fly around, and it's pretty mobile. This clip shows it off the best. While in flight, they can also physically ram Zaheer and cast spells.

Pretty much any spell they would use would one-shot Zaheer. He has no resistances to magic. Avada Kedavra is the most likely spell they will use though, so they just need to tag him once to win.

Although airbending is less visible, they have basic knowledge here. A Shield Charm would block any airbending attack.

I don't see why either can't solo him.

@geekryan: To be frank, their flight is primitive in comparison to Zaheer's.

I know she was poisoned but there's not even a comparison between the two by visuals alone

Pretty much any spell they would use would one-shot Zaheer. He has no resistances to magic. Avada Kedavra is the most likely spell they will use though, so they just need to tag him once to win.

Just because a spell is magical doesn't mean it automatically becomes super effective unless it has a specific effect. Many spells, especially in the movie, are just concussive blasts. Though of course there is AK I think Zaheer is more likely to avoid them, especially knowing they are probably one hit kills, than they are to tag him.

Although airbending is less visible, they have basic knowledge here. A Shield Charm would block any airbending attack.

Fair enough but IIRC shield charms go both ways, so they can't attack through them, and I don't know if the shields would hold up to some of Zaheer's better moves for a prolonged period of time

Is Zaheer even more mobile? The Death Eaters can fly every bit as well in the films. He most likely has higher reaction speed, but I don't see how he would deal with spells that can't be seen or dodged, and there is a very, very good amount of these, which kids learn to use as soon as the second year. Bellatrix also displayed raw power much greater than his, and most benders' in the Battle of Hogwarts, if that's any question.

How many of these are used in combat consistently on opponents?

@cocacolaman: Considering we have no description of the vast majority of duels in the books, and almost everything (any form of charm, or transfiguration offence and most curses) that is blocked/deflected both there and in the films ends up looking like a burst of light hitting the shield charm, probably more than enough and we just don't really see it. Also, the effectiveness of the spell varies from wizard to wizard according to their skill level. They're not computers. We've seen extremely common offensive magic, like incarcerous and stupefy, not acting like projectile spells, and instead just hitting the targets directly after a small flash of magic appears. Harry and every random wizard uses these spells all the time, but when Snape, Dumbledore, McGonagall and so on use them, even something as simple as that becomes undodgable to someone like Zaheer.

It's expected we'd see "unavoidable" spells as less effective amongst the higher tiers because of the fact that 12 year old kids learn to use them. They're considered basic magic, obviously professors, aurors and the better dark wizards would have easy counters to them. Reading hand movements and wand effects, legilimency, simply listening to the spells being mouthed (when they do), or just being fast enough to raise their wand and negate them in time (which is all they need since protego can stop any form of magic from actually hitting the target, wether it's internal, mental or projectile magic, with the sole exception of the killing curse), all of these are used for defence in duels. A bending shield would not do what the shield charm does because it is still foremost physical in properties, not magic that obeys the rules of HP spells, so it can't stop an attack that targets the individual's mind or soul. Zaheer also cannot read minds, and doesn't know anything about wizard and wand kinesiology to predict what they are going to do and act accordingly. And Bellatrix and Dolohov can cast their most powerful spells non-verbally, which even if they didn't, Zaheer also doesn't know what each spell they yell out does anyway. There's no real way to actively evade these things, all he can do is fly around so they can't actually target him properly, but that's not going to win him any fights.

Anyway, for some actual showings of such spells being used, you have two Death Eaters here. Bellatrix's favorite spell is the cruciatus curse. I don't know how Zaheer would deal with that. At best it's an invisible attack and at worst it is an internal one. She can also just constrict Zaheer with a swing of her hand, have snakes appear around his throat out of thin air, like she did to the snatchers at Malfoy Manor. And these are all in duels. Dolohov has no had this exposure, but he is portrayed as the best of Voldemort's forces besides her and Snape, so it's not unreasonable to think he can do these things too.

@alextheboss This might interest you

@viking1205: Who do you think is the strongest Avatar character this duo can take ?

@viking1205 said:

Either solo, Bellatrix has shown power that destroys buildings in one spell, and Dolohov scales decently close to her. With composite feats they also have flight, eliminating his only advantage besides reaction speed.

@cocacolaman:

Their flight really isn’t that far off from Zaheer’s. If you watch the Battle of the Department of Mysteries clip, you can see how mobile flight makes them, and they can ram into opponents and cast spells while doing it.

The books make it clear that wizards/witches have an innate resistance to magic. McGonagall, who is an elderly woman, survived 4 Stunning Spells to the chest, purely due to her magical power. It was stated that that attack would have killed anyone else. The “concussive” effects of some spells is only demonstrated in the films, for dramatic effect. Most spells do not cause blunt damage. Therefore, spells like Stupefy and Petrificus Totalus would have full effect on Zaheer and one-shot him. The only spells he could maybe tank are Impedimenta and Expelliarmus.

Zaheer doesn’t have the AP to break through their Shield Charms.

@cocacolaman: Which one wizard/witch do you think would be the most fair fight for Zaheer?

@geekryan: I’ll try to respond to other stuff when I get to computer, I think the fairest Wizard would be Voldemort w/out Elder Wand since IIRC his book self had better flight than we see in movies. But then it seems I hold Avatar and HP characters closer to each other than most. And I think Zaheer’s a unique threat for wizards anyway, I’d give this duo the win against the likes of Azula for example

@cocacolaman: Fair enough! I personally think most high tier wizards would stomp most non-Avatar characters due to the hax they have. Limiting their apparition makes it a bit more difficult though.

Once we’re done our Sypha vs Korra CaV, we could maybe do a HP vs Avatar CaV

@geekryan: Yeah if this duo had apparition I might give it to them tbh

I’ve got more knowledge of HP than Castle so I’d definitively be down for that CaV. Not sure what matchup we’d use though tbh.

@cocacolaman: @geekryan

Maybe I should have been more specific, but it was crystal clear to me that apparition was restricted considering the location. People can't apperate in Hogwarts, imo this is one of the various reasons why Voldemort struggled against the trio in the Final Battle btw, with apparition he would clear them before Bellatrix was down even with the nerf he suffered due to Harry protection imo. But this is another debate.

I consider apparition to be literally the one of the most op ability in combat when people actually are capable to effectively use it in dueling. But as far as I recall nor Dolohov or Bellatrix (or any wizard which isn't Voldemort, Grindelwald or Dumbledore) actually displayed applicable and effective combat-apparition skills in the books.

@epicstoic: Yeah you’re cool, the Avatar fanbase sometimes needs things spelled out for them (*cough cough* Avatar State restricted *cough cough*)

@cocacolaman: We can discuss it once our current CaV is done!

@cocacolaman: @epicstoic: You stated that it's composite versions of the characters. The Death Eaters' "flight" is a form of apparition itself, and Voldemort and Malfoy both apparated in the conventional manner inside Hogwarts in the last film multiple times too. It didn't happen in the book, but the film's choice can be explained as Hogwarts being under Tom's control at the time, with his Death Eaters in charge, until Snape fled. So he could've theoretically broken the anti-apparition jinx after Albus was killed. And it wasn't actually contradicted in the book beyond simply no one actually doing it, so people are understandably going to count the apparition spell in.

So it's not what a salty night Cola said about the Avatar fanbase. It should just be specified given the liberties the films take with some of these things, lol.

@anthp2000: Cola isn’t salty, it’s carbonated

I will allow this comeback.

@anthp2000: Fair stance. Also I do not disagree about flight being used and even possibly abused considering in the movie it's pretty much a constant capacity applicable in combat for even your average member of Voldemort inner circle. That said, I don't think it is at all as efficient as the capacity to display constant apparition in combat, like Tom did, or Grindelwald/Dumbledore. Which no one in the books did other than them, so apparition or not I don't think this is doing to serve them.

Also, while I trust you about the Malfoy stuff (I don't remember much of this specific point tbh movies wise) did any Death Eaters ever displayed apparition as a mean applicable in combat in the movies ? Pretty certain they didn't, but yes their flight is a important and powerful factor, I do agree on that much. But with flight you can't just teleport behind your opponent as far as I remember.

LOL

It's a bit unclear. See, the VFX team that adapted The Goblet of Fire, in which they first introduced the Death Eaters' smoke-trail thing, they described it as apparition. Then, they did the same in The Order of the Phoenix, when the Order arrives in the Ministry and the effect for their version is light instead of dark smoke. But then, they introduced apparition with different effects; the students and other regular wizards, and even Voldemort, just straight up disappeared as if sucked through a portal, which is the most faithful adaptation of the spell. So you have these two/three different fashions that have been referred to as apparition.

My personal explanation is that, first of all, the Death Eaters and Order members are still essentially teleporting when they want to, as we see when they arrive in locations out of nowhere. They are definitely doing that in scenes (like when Sirius appeared behind Lucius in the Ministry or when some Death Eaters fled Hogwarts in the final film and disappeared), but they also leave this effect behind them. And while this doesn't make them quite as sneaky I suppose, it does have other advantages; this type of apparition allows for unsupported flight, gives them the option to maneuver and do magic from the air + it gives them inhuman strength in that state. Tonks sent a Death Eater flying hitting him, and the Death Eaters destroyed the Millennium Bridge. So it's pretty much a customized version of apparition each "good" and "bad" side uses, instead of sticking to the regular fashion. I think this allows for everything to be as consistent as possible.