Z Fighters vs Otsutsuki

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Thedarkpaladin

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Title is very misleading, but I would have to go with the Z-fighters due to Goku. Remove him and you have a hell of a fight.

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americanspeeddemon

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@thedarkpaladin: I was doing a different fight and changed it half way through. It's edited now.

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garrettmana

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Goku could potentially solo, other than that the fight would be pretty good against the other z fighters

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Barodas

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Piccolo oneshots them like he did the moon, Goku can solo.

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Dark Cloud™

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Unless the Otsutsuki can destroy a moon (which they haven't displayed), then they've got nothing on the Z-Fighters.

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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Goku solos and Piccolo would come close, not a fair match. Goku is probably a planet buster by this point(based of his fight with Vegeta, who busted a planet in either his second or third appearence) and FTL

The Ootsutsuki have nothing on that

If you removed Goku and Piccolo, then you would have to remove BFR, as I would aruge Kaguya could win through that

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Amendment50

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Z-fighters

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emperorthanos-

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#9 emperorthanos-  Moderator

I give to Z Fighters Mainly because of Goku and Krillin's destructo disk may come in handy as well.

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redbird3rdboywonder

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not touching this

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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@redbird3rdboywonder: The Naruto fangirls havent gotten here yet, its ok

Feel free to post your opinion before they arrive

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Jiraiya_sageofoil

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@decaf_wizard: if your implying anyone who thinks they can win is a fanboy then I am cause i can see it being possible

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deactivated-60fae469e992f

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@jiraiya_sageofoil: Im talking about the people who will say Kaguya solos.

As of right now, if Goku isnt jobbing he could solo. Remove him and there would be a far better case for Naruto, although BFR would need to be removed because of Kaguya

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TheParadox

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It seems people forget about perfect teamwork. Kaguya can let Momoshiki absorb ETSB, and that could pose major problems for team DBZ.

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Shadowmaster91

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What would happen if Kaguya use her bone thingy or leave them in one of her dimensions?

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vintage_spiderman

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@shadowmaster91: They get turned into ash or bfr. Simple, but that's if they don't blitz her first and blast her to smithereens.

Edit: Then again she has the healing factor.

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ValarMelkor

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Unless the Otsutsuki can destroy a moon (which they haven't displayed), then they've got nothing on the Z-Fighters.

Kaguya can destroy her dimensions which are shown to contain at least a Moon and Planet.

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LpnQ

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inb4 planet busting(that cant bust planets) nlf black ball of death

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Shadowmaster91

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@vintage_spiderman: Then they have a very small posibility of winning. I don't think that Goku would think too much about someone firing him a bone (thinking that it would be like a sword or something). And if they leave them in another dimension, how much time do you think would pass until Goku eat his friends........ jajajaja

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vintage_spiderman

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Dark Cloud™

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@valarmelkor: Whether she can or can't, has she (or the others) displayed such ability? And if so, when and where?

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Pandalumina

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Goku can solo. Piccolo can solo.

Mismatch.

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ValarMelkor

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@valarmelkor: Whether she can or can't, has she (or the others) displayed such ability? And if so, when and where?

She was going to do so but got defeated before that. Either way, author confirms in the databook that Expansive Truthseeking Orb can destroy planets.

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Alphapunk

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#24  Edited By Alphapunk

@vintage_spiderman said:

@decaf_wizard: What's z fighters striking strength saiyan saga?

Super confirmed a max strike is 1/3 as powerful as a max ki blast. When moving toward opponent and give 100% effort.

High tier Multi moon-small planet for Goku most likely, they don't cause area damage, like their Ki blasts their physical strikes "pierce" their enemies. You might know this i am just saying it for everyone. Goku might punch a mountain and make a little 5 by 5ft hole so people say, hey! He's weak! In reality that 5x5 hole could tear a moon leveler in half or even galaxy-multi-galaxy leveler in Super.

Goku maxed out is over Vegetas planet buster, i would still rate him as only a planet buster with his max ki blast, 1/3 of that would be far above moon level, as a matter of fact the smallest astral body our scientists have found that can be classified as a "planet" is 1/3 Earth size, so Goku should have small planet level striking based on Super which retcons everything. Yay those two things fit together perfect! Glad i learned that today hehe.

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vintage_spiderman

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@lpnq: Okay I get what you are saying it was not shown on panel/onscreen yet, and if we use this logic Goku hasn't planet busted before....common sense>feats sometimes. Also still doesn't make it false claim considering her son who is many times weaker than her gave Naruto and Sasuke the power to make a moon. And Toneri another character who is many times weaker than Kaguya was able to slice the moon in half casually, and not be exhausted. Also gudodama ball isn't NLF you natural energy or can survive subatomic destruction simple as that. You want to see NLF read Bleach manga lol.

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Alphapunk

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#26  Edited By Alphapunk

@vintage_spiderman said:

@lpnq: Okay I get what you are saying it was not shown on panel/onscreen yet, and if we use this logic Goku hasn't planet busted before....common sense>feats sometimes. Also still doesn't make it false claim considering her son who is many times weaker than her gave Naruto and Sasuke the power to make a moon. And Toneri another character who is many times weaker than Kaguya was able to slice the moon in half casually, and not be exhausted. Also gudodama ball isn't NLF you natural energy or can survive subatomic destruction simple as that. You want to see NLF read Bleach manga lol.

Kaguya = planet level? I heard this before, can you give us a run down or a link? I hope so, it would make Naruto vs Db threads more interesting...

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vintage_spiderman

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@alphapunk: Kaguya said she would destroy one of her dimensions before Naruto and Sasuke stopped her. Now let us think what does her dimension consist of...is it like kamui where you can see from one end to the other of the dimension without a special dojutsu...lol no...can it fit a moon...yes...did the large spherical land mass have a planetary curve...yes...did she have multiple of these dimensions...also yes.

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LpnQ

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@lpnq: Okay I get what you are saying it was not shown on panel/onscreen yet, and if we use this logic Goku hasn't planet busted before....common sense>feats sometimes. Also still doesn't make it false claim considering her son who is many times weaker than her gave Naruto and Sasuke the power to make a moon. And Toneri another character who is many times weaker than Kaguya was able to slice the moon in half casually, and not be exhausted. Also gudodama ball isn't NLF you natural energy or can survive subatomic destruction simple as that. You want to see NLF read Bleach manga lol.

:P that last part was pretty funny lmao.

I'm going to just lurk from the sidelines and see where this thread goes

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Dark Cloud™

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@valarmelkor: I'm going to ignore Author statements without support of on-panel feats. That's not saying I don't believe you, it's saying that because of Roshi and Piccolo having been able to destroy the moon (on-panel as well as Anime confirmations), and the Z-Fighters are leagues more powerful since then, it makes the Otsutsuki claim less viable.

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newcomer

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Otsutsuki, maybe.

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Shadowmaster91

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@dark_cloud_: How about Kaguya telling them that they should take the fight to another place and leave them stranded in her acid sea dimension.

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Dark Cloud™

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@shadowmaster91: The time it takes for her to even say that, or, after hearing that, the Z-Fighters would know to take her out quickly. One punch, perhaps a kick or a simple ki blast/ball would do them justice.

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Shadowmaster91

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@dark_cloud_: The fight says "In character". It wouldn't be too farfetched for Kaguya to see her planet being damaged and saying that if they could move somewhere else. Goku has done that, he could accept that option if he thinks that Kaguya is truthfull. She doesn't need to be...... jajajaja ;-)

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vintage_spiderman

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@dark_cloud_: the ki blast would work if it hits her whole body obliterating her, but punch or kick? Her regen doesn't allow for that to even be a option.

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TheMan44

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literally one of the reasons I made a how to Beat a DBZ character Thread. Did people listen

NOOOOOOOOOOO

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MudaMudaMuda

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#37  Edited By MudaMudaMuda

I don't see why Kaguya doesn't simply BFR everyone here.

@dark_cloud_ said:

@valarmelkor: I'm going to ignore Author statements without support of on-panel feats. That's not saying I don't believe you, it's saying that because of Roshi and Piccolo having been able to destroy the moon (on-panel as well as Anime confirmations), and the Z-Fighters are leagues more powerful since then, it makes the Otsutsuki claim less viable.

By what kind of logic are you going to ignore the author's statements ? It doesn't make any kind of sense for you to disregard an ability the writer of the story gives to his character. You are basically saying that the writer of the manga is a liar and that your opinion > What the writer says just because he didn't draw it in the manga.

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MudaMudaMuda

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@vintage_spiderman said:

@decaf_wizard: What's z fighters striking strength saiyan saga?

Super confirmed a max strike is 1/3 as powerful as a max ki blast. When moving toward opponent and give 100% effort.

When was this confirmed ? I'm really interested to know.

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Dark Cloud™

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@mudamudamuda: Don't put words into my mouth when you can't even comprehend a very clear concept. By what logic? Author statements don't equate to factual evidence. Hence, they need support by the Anime and/or manga. That's why I gave an example of Roshi and Piccolo destroying the moon and the Z-Fighters are leagues more powerful.

@vintage_spiderman: She can survive being struck by someone hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than her? How is she going to regenerate if the punch or kick is so powerful that it could kill her?

@shadowmaster91: Sure, it wouldn't be farfetched, but that doesn't mean she'd automatically win or anything like that.

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SSbardock84

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The Z-Fighters stomp. Goku alone could solo.

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MudaMudaMuda

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#41  Edited By MudaMudaMuda

@dark_cloud_ said:

@mudamudamuda: Don't put words into my mouth when you can't even comprehend a very clear concept. By what logic? Author statements don't equate to factual evidence. Hence, they need support by the Anime and/or manga. That's why I gave an example of Roshi and Piccolo destroying the moon and the Z-Fighters are leagues more powerful.

You are obviously the one who cannot comprehend something like such a simple concept as the author's word being absolute.

You aren't in any position to decide whether the writers claims are correct or not, you can simply chose whether to acknowledge them or be in denial, and either way your choice doesn't change anything, it's a mere personal opinion that has nothing to do with any factual evidence, nothing more. If I write a story and decide that my character can destroy a planet, then obviously my character can destroy a planet, If i decide that my character can turn into a 6 legged purple rabbit, then yes my character can very well do that because it is my creation, I'm the one who decides which ability any character in my story gets and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Not acknowledging a writer's claims is same as disclaiming a part of their work, it isn't any different from saying that Naruto doesn't have Rasengan because you don't care about what the writer draws in his manga. What you are doing isn't making an argument, it's called being in denial.

And, following your logic. There is not a single piece of evidence to suggest that the DBz moon is anywhere near the size of a real Moon.

Not accepting writer statements means that you have nothing, you can't support anything you say without some smartass using sophism to discredit the feats.

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deactivated-5ac4e862bd47b

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Kaguya can bfr them, but then if they hit her with a ki blast shes done for.

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Shadowmaster91

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@dark_cloud_: She could simply say that and leave them there traped.

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emperorthanos-

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#44 emperorthanos-  Moderator

So basically the only thing the Naruto characters have going for them is BFR. Whats stopping Goku from speedblitzing. This chi saiyan saga Goku and he did so against Nappa.

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Dark Cloud™

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#45  Edited By Dark Cloud™

@mudamudamuda: It's fantastic to see how flawed your response truly is.

Here on ComicVine, we go by factual evidence, which is visual proof in support of claims. That is called credibility. Statements do not equate to factual evidence, period, whether you agree to it or not. It's not up to you to say what is and what isn't. It's up to you to support your claims that said character can accomplish said feat by showing everyone proof (i.e. screen shots, scans from the manga, particular scenes or full videos).

If these things cannot be met, then you have zero evidence and therefore possess no argument, making your claims void. That is how ComicVine as well as reasonable and logical debates work. Again, if you cannot supply the aforementioned means, you have no credibility.

Here is an example of Akira Toriyama making a statement about the difference in power levels between Goku, Beerus, and Whis. "Goku is a 6, Beerus is a 10, Whis is a 15." This is all supported by the Battle of Gods movie as well as the manga and Anime. Beerus was holding back against Goku during their fight, with Beerus matching and even overpowering Goku. It is further shown that Whis casually chopped at Beerus' neck, nearly knocking him unconscious and to the ground during his fit after eating Wasabi. It is also further explained in the Anime. These are statements by the Author with evidence given by media facets.

Do you see where you're wrong, now?

I'm in every position to defend whom I've sided with, as I've explained to you that because Kaguya has no feats to say she can destroy a moon, it is then safe to say that she can't. I have also given examples of whom has destroyed a moon in the Dragon Ball Universe (Roshi and Piccolo), while also stating that the Z-Fighters are currently leagues (in other words, far more) powerful than those two were during the time they destroyed the moon. And trying to justify the moon busting feat by attempting to correlate it to real life is just as flawed as your entire argument; you are now reaching out of desperation, believing you're right despite the truth opposing you.

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Dark Cloud™

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@shadowmaster91: She could, sure. But what's ratio on that actually working?

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zzagirl

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@vintage_spiderman said:

@decaf_wizard: What's z fighters striking strength saiyan saga?

Super confirmed a max strike is 1/3 as powerful as a max ki blast. When moving toward opponent and give 100% effort.

Could you give me a source to this, please? I'm genuinely interested in this particular statement, because I don't remember Super going into detail about their max striking potential.

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MudaMudaMuda

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#48  Edited By MudaMudaMuda

@dark_cloud_:

It's fantastic to see how flawed your response truly is.

It's said that people often project their own flaws on others.

Here on ComicVine, we go by factual evidence, which is visual proof in support of claims. That is called credibility. Statements do not equate to factual evidence, period, whether you agree to it or not. It's not up to you to say what is and what isn't. It's up to you to support your claims that said character can accomplish said feat by showing everyone proof (i.e. screen shots, scans from the manga, particular scenes or full videos).

This is nothing more than a load of nonsense. All you are doing is making up your own version of the rules that suit your needs. By what kind of logic is factual evidence strictly limited to visual evidence ? It isn't, never was, never will be. According to you everything said in a novel, book or guidebook is worthless, because you can't see the feats happening. Again, according to you, interviews and Databooks are worthless because they don't show any feats.

Not to mention, you can't even make the difference between a character statement and the author's statement and simply try to label everything as "statement" as if that takes away any part of their credibility.

I don't think i even need to explain how much of a fail that kind of reasoning is.

If these things cannot be met, then you have zero evidence and therefore possess no argument, making your claims void. That is how ComicVine as well as reasonable and logical debates work. Again, if you cannot supply the aforementioned means, you have no credibility.

It's laughable to see that you think that you can apparently decide what can be accepted as evidence, or who can be viewed as a credible debater. All the needed evidence is there, you have the absolute most reliable source anyone can provide and which fans often rely on when they need to clarify an issue that's up to interpretations : The decision of the writer of the story.

As I said, it is entirely up to you to decide whether or not to accept the statement, just like anyone can decide not to accept a scan or a video or a novel quote, but their refusal isn't stemming from rational thinking and their opinion is utterly worthless for anyone who care about evidence because that isn't making an argument is is simply being in denial.

Here is an example of Akira Toriyama making a statement about the difference in power levels between Goku, Beerus, and Whis. "Goku is a 6, Beerus is a 10, Whis is a 15." This is all supported by the Battle of Gods movie as well as the manga and Anime. Beerus was holding back against Goku during their fight, with Beerus matching and even overpowering Goku. It is further shown that Whis casually chopped at Beerus' neck, nearly knocking him unconscious and to the ground during his fit after eating Wasabi. It is also further explained in the Anime. These are statements by the Author with evidence given by media facets.

There is nothing to address here, this isn't any kind of argument.

Do you see where you're wrong, now?

No, but I do see that you think that you are in a position where you can decide what can be accepted or not and think that you have any saying in matters that the writer of a story decides as if you held some kind of authority over people. Which you don't.

I'm in every position to defend whom I've sided with, as I've explained to you that because Kaguya has no feats to say she can destroy a moon, it is then safe to say that she can't. I have also given examples of whom has destroyed a moon in the Dragon Ball Universe (Roshi and Piccolo), while also stating that the Z-Fighters are currently leagues (in other words, far more) powerful than those two were during the time they destroyed the moon. And trying to justify the moon busting feat by attempting to correlate it to real life is just as flawed as your entire argument; you are now reaching out of desperation, believing you're right despite the truth opposing you.

No one said anything about whether or not you can "defend" who you are siding with. This entire discussion has nothing to do with that. What we are discussion here is your silly belief that something the writer says is any less of a proof than something they draw which it absolutely is not. As I previously said, you have nothing, you can argue all you want that Kaguya cannot destroy a moon but your opinion is worthless before what the writer decides. You can argue all you want that the Z warriors are moon level but the feat is worthless without knowing the size of the moon which you can't prove without author statements.

What you are doing is nothing more than a logical fallacy, an Argument from ignorance

So keep being in denial.

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vintage_spiderman

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@mudamudamuda: Don't put words into my mouth when you can't even comprehend a very clear concept. By what logic? Author statements don't equate to factual evidence. Hence, they need support by the Anime and/or manga. That's why I gave an example of Roshi and Piccolo destroying the moon and the Z-Fighters are leagues more powerful.

@vintage_spiderman: She can survive being struck by someone hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than her? How is she going to regenerate if the punch or kick is so powerful that it could kill her?

@shadowmaster91: Sure, it wouldn't be farfetched, but that doesn't mean she'd automatically win or anything like that.

Unless the punch or kick has some obliterating property added to it, similar to a ki blast I don't see how that's possible.

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Dark Cloud™

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@mudamudamuda: I get you. It's unreasonable to use actual feats shown than to follow an Author's statements, despite the lack of evidence to support the Author's statements. That's right. It's completely unreasonable to have any sort of factual evidence to make said Author's statements true. It's also unreasonable to post scans, videos, page and panel numbers, even links to websites that showcase Respect Threads. You're absolutely, undeniably, unequivocally right! How dare I not use your method of debating to prove to others how amazing my skills are!

Sarcasm aside...

You've just proven you have no argument, and instead of backing up your claims, you'd rather be immature and belittle someone. You're done.