## Multi-Eternity, the embodiment of the marvel verse!

## Yog-Sothoth, the embodiment of the cthulhu verse!

## Rules:

-Composite marvel cosmology

-Composite marvel cosmology

Maybe interested: @sungsam@etriel@kilgpmktra@supermanthor

Multi-Eternity because he has quantifiable feats. Not Outerverse non sense.

Outerverse was never even liked here, we DC fans on the Vine had to prove Lucifer's Creation was a Multiverse VIA Multi-Authorial Cosmology sources before it was finally accepted here.

Not because "LUCIFER TRANSCENDS DAA CONCEPT OP TAIM AAANNNDD SHPAAYCE".

So after all that hard work, why would debaters here give in to Outerverse crap?

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@sungsam: Um, I still see many outversal crap here, but outversal is crap, I agree.

@yasindermann said:

@sungsam: Um, I still see many outversal crap here, but outversal is crap, I agree.

Time and Space is a property that the Endless and the Monitors can lose and gain. They don't become weaker or more powerful based on losing time and space.

Oi I'm Outerversal then Hyperversal!!!! No. That is dumb.

The Outerverse crap is so illogical.

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@sungsam: Yeah, you're right. I am now outside of the universe in a timeless and spaceless void....I AM OUTVERSAL!

@supermanthor said:

I temp to say multi eternity

that

@sungsam said:

@greenroost said:

@supermanthor said:

I temp to say multi eternity

that

Perfect choice friends.

ok

@greenroost said:

@supermanthor said:

I temp to say multi eternity

that

Perfect choice friends.

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@sungsam said:

@greenroost said:

@supermanthor said:

I temp to say multi eternity

that

Perfect choice friends.

thanks

The Necronomicon exist in Umineko, meaning that the entirety of Umineko is part of the Cthulhu Mythos, meaning that Yog-Sothoth is either > Umineko or he is actually Featherine, so he solos.

Seriously now, I was re-reading the Umineko manga and found this gem, so I decided to post it here.

Multi-Eternity probably takes it.

So uh.

What's Multi-Eternity's feats? He's basically the composite of the infinite single universe Eternities right? So an infinite multiversal being?

Cuz Nyarlathotep's hunting horrors were casually tanking the birth and death of infinite universes, Nodens incinerated the hunting horrors by glaring at them, and then when he attacked Nyarlathotep, Nyarla just laughed it off.

And Nyarlathotep is one of the weakest Outer Gods, and all the Outer Gods are just infinitely small parts of Yog Sothoth.

So basically

Infinite multiversal destruction < Hunting Horrors <<<<<<<<<< Nodens <<<<<<<< Nyarlathotep << Normal Outer God <<<<<<<<* ∞*<<<<<< Yog Sothoth

I'd also say things about Yog speaking being equated to universes crashing into each other or imploding or something but that's just a universal feat unless we take dimensional tiering into the equation (do we do that here?) in which case those universes were made up of infinite dimensions.

@zerothcause: Cite scans for your claims. Proper Modern Multiversal Cosmology theory would not exist until years and years after Lovecraft's death.

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^ Already debunked that.

Yog gets stomped since he is only infinitely larger than 5-D.

Infinite-D Multiverse is an MWI Quantum Idea. Never existed during Lovecraft's time until just a few decades ago.

It's based on a misunderstanding of a choice of words, quickly debunked by the next page.

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Repeating yourself doesn't make you correct. Even with all that, mental gymnastics.

6-D Yog loses. GG.

If you are an Archetypal Infinity/Eternity only infinitely above 5-D and FINITE dimensions, you are just 6-D.

Because people cannot read the word FIINIITE. Nowadays.

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Wow, head canon.

I like how the dimensions were called finite in the same sentence, and was stated to be all what Yog was outside of, and he is still Infinite-D based on a wack interpretation of a vague text quickly explained in the next page.

Weak.

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Being infinitely greater than finite dimensions is not Infinite-D. **That's like saying Mxy is Infinite-D because he is infinitely greater than 4-D, using your logic, every Higher Multiversal in DC is Infinite-D.** Being infinitely greater than finite levels of dimensions just means you are a level above the previous level, not infinite orders of infinity.

Example. Being greater than 5-D Multiverse = 6D.

Because each dimension is infinitely greater than the level below it, that doesn't mean Infinite-D at all. Yog needs to be Infinity X Infinity X Infinity X eternia times greater than any of that, not just being Infinity above finite dimensions. But Multi-Etertnity, he even has Multiversal feats demonstrating his power.

You already clearly shown that you have no idea how Geometric numbered dimensions work. In dimensional tiering. Shown when you confused dimensions with universes all the time.

**Because you think being infinitely greater than finite dimensions is Infinite-D which is wrong. Because your dimension level is scaled relative to the size of those finite dimensions.**

Yog is just infinitely greater than Finite Dimensions And he is outside the dimensions, that are in the same sentence, stated to be finite.

The dimensions should have been called infinite, then the next sentence, he is outside it. If your interpretation is true.

Yog is just infinitely scaling to finite dimensions that he is outside of.

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He's not wrong. Most of the stuff about Cthulhu mythos is wanked because people don't understand it and only pretend they have read it.

Multi Entity takes this.

@sungsam: So Lovecraft has just finite dimensions according to you're scan? So Cthulhu Mythos gets wanked because of VSbattle wiki again, nice.

Here's the quote that proves infinite dimensions are a thing in Cthulhu Mythos

*"Then the waves increased in strength, and sought to improve his understanding, reconciling him to the multiform entity of which his present fragment was an infinitesimal part. They told him that***every figure of space is but the result of the intersection by a plane of some corresponding figure of one more dimension—as a square is cut from a cube or a circle from a sphere. The cube and sphere, of three dimensions, are thus cut from corresponding forms of four dimensions that men know only through guesses and dreams; and these in turn are cut from forms of five dimensions, and so on up to the dizzy and reachless heights of archetypal infinity**. The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing—the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate, where ’Umr at-Tawil dictates dreams to the Ancient Ones. Though men hail it as reality and brand thoughts of its many-dimensioned original as unreality, it is in truth the very opposite. That which we call substance and reality is shadow and illusion, and that which we call shadow and illusion is substance and reality."

So. As we can see, it is very blatantly stated that every figure of space is the result of another object intersecting from higher dimensions. Just as you would get a square if you looked at the cross section of a cube, you get a cube if you look at the cross section of the "corresponding forms of four dimensions", and "these in turn are cut from forms of five dimensions", and here's the really important bit, "**and so on **up to the dizzy and **reachless heights of archetypal infinity**". Look at the way it links the sentences together.

"*And so on*"

It's clearly stating that the idea of "2D object cut from 3D object, 3D object cut from 4D object, 4D object cut from 5D object" keeps going up - "5D object cut from 6D, 6D from 7D, etc etc etc" - and it goes on up to infinity.

Oh and here's another one.

*The waves surged forth again, and Carter knew that the BEING had heard. And now there poured from that limitless MIND a flood of knowledge and explanation which opened new vistas to the seeker, and prepared him for such a grasp of the cosmos as he had never hoped to possess. He was told***how childish and limited is the notion of a tri-dimensional world**, and what**an infinity of directions there are besides the known directions of up-down, forward-backward, right-left**.

An "*infinity of directions" *besides thedimensional axes of "*up-down, forward-backward, right-left."*

Just because infinite dimensions only became a scientific theory after lovecraft's time doesn't mean he couldn't think of it before. That's like saying people couldn't think of flying vehicles until the Wright Brothers came along.

I can't believe how much I see people throw around the argument that "infinite dimensions and proper multiverse theory only became a theory after his time" as if that somehow changes the fact that he literally wrote his mythos had infinite dimensions and multiple parallel worlds.

Also, here's the full context to that picture quote that you are using to say Yog is only 6D.

*After an impressive pause the waves continued, saying that what the denizens of few-dimensioned zones call change is merely a function of their consciousness, which views the external world from various cosmic angles. As the shapes produced by the cutting of a cone seem to vary with the angles of cutting—being circle, ellipse, parabola, or hyperbola according to that angle, yet without any change in the cone itself—so do the local aspects of an unchanged and endless reality seem to change with the cosmic angle of regarding. To this variety of angles of consciousness the feeble beings of the inner worlds are slaves, since with rare exceptions they cannot learn to control them. Only a few students of forbidden things have gained inklings of this control, and have thereby conquered time and change. But the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will.**As the waves paused again, Carter began to comprehend, vaguely and terrifiedly, the ultimate background of that riddle of lost individuality which had at first so horrified him. His intuition pieced together the fragments of revelation, and brought him closer and closer to a grasp of the secret. He understood that much of the frightful revelation would have come upon him—splitting up his ego amongst myriads of earthly counterparts—inside the First Gate, had not the magic of ’Umr at-Tawil kept it from him in order that he might use the Silver Key with precision for the Ultimate Gate’s opening. Anxious for clearer knowledge, he sent out waves of thought, asking more of the exact relationship between his various facets—the fragment now beyond the Ultimate Gate, the fragment still on the quasi-hexagonal pedestal beyond the First Gate, the boy of 1883, the man of 1928, the various ancestral beings who had formed his heritage and the bulwark of his ego, and the nameless denizens of the other aeons and other worlds which that first hideous flash of ultimate perception had identified with him. Slowly the waves of the BEING surged out in reply, trying to make plain what was almost beyond the reach of an earthly mind.**All descended lines of beings of the finite dimensions, continued the waves, and all stages of growth in each one of these beings, are merely manifestations of one archetypal and eternal being in the space outside dimensions. Each local being—son, father, grandfather, and so on—and each stage of individual being—infant, child, boy, young man, old man—is merely one of the infinite phases of that same archetypal and eternal being, caused by a variation in the angle of the consciousness-plane which cuts it. Randolph Carter at all ages; Randolph Carter and all his ancestors both human and pre-human, terrestrial and pre-terrestrial; all these were only phases of one ultimate, eternal “Carter” outside space and time—phantom projections differentiated only by the angle at which the plane of consciousness happened to cut the eternal archetype in each case.*

Carter who's perspective we are reading from is a being of finite dimensions. He also learns that there are many other versions of Carter in many other worlds, and all of those Carters are just one version of the "ultimate eternal Carter outside of space and time". Yog Sothoth on the other hand....

- "
*In the face of that awful wonder, the quasi-Carter forgot the horror of destroyed individuality. It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—***not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike**." *"All descended lines of beings of the finite dimensions, continued the waves, and all stages of growth in each one of these beings, are merely manifestations of***one archetypal and eternal being in the space outside dimensions**"

...is a being outside of infinite dimensions, who is also well beyond "*the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will."...*

Also, here's the bit where Yog speaking makes multiple universes implode

*And now the BEING was addressing the Carter-facet in prodigious waves that smote and burned and thundered—a concentration of energy that blasted its recipient with well-nigh unendurable violence, and that followed, with certain definite variations, the singular unearthly rhythm which had marked the chanting and swaying of the Ancient Ones, and the flickering of the monstrous lights, in that baffling region beyond the First Gate.***It was as though suns and worlds and universes had converged upon one point whose very position in space they had conspired to annihilate with an impact of resistless fury**.

So

Glad to enlighten people on just where Yog actually stands, and remove some of the ~~downplay~~ so called "debunking" that's present in this thread.

@zgtfreak: Hyperversal orOutversal logic is here?

@zerothcause: Again, no evidence of Infinite-D. Just a whole lot of speculation with barely any evidence. That I already countlessly addressed.

The so called dimensions of Lovecraft ended at 5-Dimensional space below Archetypal Infinity which is 6-D, nothing more beyond that. The fact that you need to type tons of mental gymnastics, that which several Lovecraft debaters already accepted was wrong, already proves this.

The Archetypal Eternity/Infinity only referred to something infinite outside the dimensions, not that the dimensions were infinitely geometric of infinite orders of infinity. I already proved the context behind this. In my debunk.

Infinite Directions doesn't prove Infinite-D.

**Because the Archetype that is Yog was outside the dimensions,** so the infinity did not refer to the number of dimensions. **But was an infinite space outside the finite dimensions.** It was something else. First the claim the archetypal infinity referred to infinite number of dimensions which is your interpretation, but we know the archetypal infinity is in fact outside the dimensions, so it was different. So the interpretation was already wrong.

Furthermore, Infinite Dimensions is in fact, infinite orders of infinity, not archetypal infinity.

The Multiverse of Lovecraft at the time referred to no Scientific Cosmology as complex as Quantum Multiverses we see in later fiction. Marvel creates and spins new Timeline Multiverses every instant like what we see now, **which Lovecraft has no such thing like this.**

Marvel has superior cosmology, even with your ridiculous "Infinite-D" interpretation, it is still inferior to what Marvel has.

You however, made ludicrous claims like every Universe in Lovecraft is Infinite-D.

At least Gaoron was intelligent enough to back off.

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@zgtfreak said:

@gaoron: Being infinitely above 5-D = 6-D.

Ironically you are using VS Battles outerverse logic, despite your claims of being "Against it."

+1

I like how it's been proven that the Archetypal Infinity did not refer to infinite higher dimensions but was just something outside of the dimensions that is finite, it's still Infinite-D.

How can Archetypal Infinity in fact be Infinite-D anyway? It entails that it's just not complex, like Infinite-D. The fact that it's "archetypal" meaning it's just 1 upper order of infinity.

The whole "Archetype" thing already lost me.

It's so unrealistic. No such cosmology model like Quantum Multiverses even existed during Lovecraft's time. What even is this? Lol.

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@sungsam: From that what I've read out, Yog is just 6-dimensional. Then this is a heavy stomp thread. Sorry.

@yasindermann said:

@sungsam: From that what I've read out, Yog is just 6-dimensional. Then this is a heavy stomp thread. Sorry.

It is a massive stomp thread. I already convinced 4 people that Lovewank is really all wank.

It's just that these Outerversalists are stubborn to the core. Do they not know that their Wiki is generally disliked here? Why do they even come here? Lol.

Even if Yog is Infinite-D (which is a really stupid interpretation with multiple holes), that means nothing because he has no feats of reality warping at that level. And the Infinite-D that he embodies (which is wank) is inferior to Marvel's Infinite-D.

Superman and Shaggy are both 3-D, does that mean they're equal? No.

Eternity just has the superior power set, and his Cosmology infinitely expands instantaneously new Infinite Multiverses within the belows of the Infinite-D that Multi-Eternity embodies. It's not a fair fight at all.

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@sungsam: Like I said: Because of VS battle wiki, fictions like Lovecraft, shinza bansho, elder god demonbane, etc. get's massivly wanked. All their fault, I swear.

@blue_sock1337 said:

He's not wrong. Most of the stuff about Cthulhu mythos is wanked because people don't understand it and only pretend they have read it.

Multi Entity takes this.

+1

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"archetypal infinity is 6D"

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

You've proved nothing except that you are conducting some mental gymnastics of your own to try and say that "an infinity of directions", when those directions are directly stated to be *dimensional axes and are referred to in the same context as the term "tri-dimensional world"* is not saying that there's an infinite number of dimensional axes.

You've proved nothing but that you are conducting some mental gymnastics of your own to try and say that when Yog tells you that every shape in space is just cut from a corresponding shape in a higher dimension, *and that relationship continues up to infinity, *he's actually just saying it continues to 6 dimensions**.** The way you've got 6 dimensions is by literally ignoring large chunks of text and acting as if only the bit where 5 dimensional space was written. And not only that, but you are trying to say that the Mythos has a whole only has finite dimensions because there are finite dimensional beings in it. This is the most inane logic I have ever seen. I guess all of Marvel is not 3D because Spiderman's 3D? He's a finite dimensional being after all, guess we just need to ignore all the higher dimensions of Marvel because one character is 3D.

That's what you're saying. You're taking a single character, looking at how many dimensions they have, and you're trying to say that the entire verse has that many dimensions while ignoring everything else that says otherwise. It's incredibly stupid.

But if you;re conducting this much mental gymnastics to convince yourself that the Mythos doesn't have infinite dimensions when those quotes are about as blatant as can get, then I can tell that nothing I do will convince you and you're just a Mythos downplayer. So enjoy your delusions, and goodbye.

@sungsam: So yog wins right?

@zerothcause: Lovecraft specifically states that Yog is above FINITE dimensions (5-D). Archetypal infinity ends at Yog/outside of dimensions/6-D. Archetypal doesn't speak about the SIZE of ANYTHING.

"All descended lines of beings of the ** finite dimensions,** continued the waves, and all stages of growth in each one of these beings, are merely manifestations of one archetypal and eternal being in the space outside dimensions."

See? There is no infinite-D in Lovecraft! Let this be a lesson to you!

@zerothcause said:

"archetypal infinity is 6D"

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

You've proved nothing except that you are conducting some mental gymnastics of your own to try and say that "an infinity of directions", when those directions are directly stated to be *dimensional axes and are referred to in the same context as the term "tri-dimensional world"* is not saying that there's an infinite number of dimensional axes.

Infinity of directions? **There are Infinite Directions in an infinite number of 3-D Universes.** That means nothing.

You've proved nothing but that you are conducting some mental gymnastics of your own to try and say that when Yog tells you that every shape in space is just cut from a corresponding shape in a higher dimension,

and that relationship continues up to infinity,he's actually just saying it continues to 6 dimensions.The way you've got 6 dimensions is by literally ignoring large chunks of text and acting as if only the bit where 5 dimensional space was written. And not only that, but you are trying to say that the Mythos has a whole only has finite dimensions because there are finite dimensional beings in it. This is the most inane logic I have ever seen. I guess all of Marvel is not 3D because Spiderman's 3D? He's a finite dimensional being after all, guess we just need to ignore all the higher dimensions of Marvel because one character is 3D.

It doesn't. It ended at 5-D.

The Archetypal Infinity was outside the dimensions, it did not refer to infinite more orders of infinity of dimensions.

Because Higher Dimensions is InfinityXInfinityXInfinity.etc. how did that become Infinite Dimensions if it's just one archetypal infinity? It's just an infinity outside 5-Dimensional space which ended up till the infinity that was outside the dimensions.

The fact that the Archetypal Infinity is outside all the dimensions means it had nothing to do with the number of dimensions there are, but was outside the dimensions.

You are looking TOO deep into a funny choice of word, that I highly doubt means what you think it means.

That's what you're saying. You're taking a single character, looking at how many dimensions they have, and you're trying to say that the entire verse has that many dimensions while ignoring everything else that says otherwise. It's incredibly stupid.

But if you;re conducting this much mental gymnastics to convince yourself that the Mythos doesn't have infinite dimensions when those quotes are about as blatant as can get, then I can tell that nothing I do will convince you and you're just a Mythos downplayer. So enjoy your delusions, and goodbye.

You are the one with the mental gymnastics.

The Archetypal Infinity was OUTSIDE the dimensions, it wasn't the number of dimensions itself. **It was OUTSIDE THE DIMENSIONS.**

**ARCHETYPAL AND ETERNAL BEING OUTSIDE DIMENSIONS**

Do you understand? You, go continue on with your delusions.

Because at least Marvel's Infinitely Layered Multiverse CONSTANTLY makes Infinite Universes every instant. Your primitive craft cosmology didn't.

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@hollowbutterfly said:

@sungsam: So yog wins right?

Even if Yog was Infinite-D, what does that matter at all? He has no reality warping feats. My body possesses so much atoms, how Omnipotent am I?

Marvel's Quantum Expanding Instant Cosmology is far more complex than Craft's old primitive Cosmology.

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@zgtfreak said:

@sungsam: Why do Lovecraft wankers think Archetype refers to the size and or number of something? That's not what Archetype even means. LOL

I don't get it either. The Archetypal Infinity/Eternity was OUTSIDE the dimensions, how did that become the number of infinity up infinity dimensions if it was outside the dimensions as a whole? That made no sense to me.

Strange these guys are. Lol

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@zgtfreak said:

@sungsam: Archetypal can refer to something imitating an original, so archetypal infinity just means where Yog exist is imitating previous infinities. So simple...

Even IF Yog was Infinite-D (this is bullsh-t) he still loses because Marvel's Cosmology is far more complex than just "Infinite-D!!!" it has a Type III Quantum Instantly Infinitely Multiplying Multiverse, with INFINITE layers transcending that, and each of these layers should logically be infinitely expanding VIA scaling to the Type III Quantum Timeline Multiverse below it, because of it. Then each Universe in Marvel has multiple dimensional realms in them, then there's a space between those Infinite Sized Universes that are each Infinite in size.

So a Lovecraft hypothetical Infinite-D is an infinitesimal to the Quantum Infinite-D totality that is Multi-Eternity.

He still loses either way. No matter what he tries to prove. Because Multi-Eternity has actual reality warping feats and can summon his groupie siblings to aid him as one of his abilities, so stomp stomp stomp.

I only entertained this, because I know our side wins either way. It's so futile. Most of the Lovecraft wank comes from "Undimension Tiering" or "Outerverse" garbage. Because Lovecraft is all tiering with no feats, while Multi-Eternity has better tiering with actual Hyper-Instant-Cosmology feats.

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