Yog-Sothoth Cthulhu Mythos vs. Battler Ushiromiya Umineko

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chasekilleen

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#1  Edited By chasekilleen
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chaliceoflife

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Battler one shots

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chasekilleen

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chaliceoflife

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@chasekilleen: he has a sword that negates concepts of dodging, evading, defending etc.

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chaliceoflife

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chasekilleen

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chaliceoflife

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@chaliceoflife: Still fodder...

Based on feats & the respect thread he is the furthest from fodder. Battler wins 9/10 1 loss due to allowing hyperbole.

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chasekilleen

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@chaliceoflife: Do you even know anything about Yog-Sothoth? I doubt it...

The RT you posted were fodder.

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ovy7

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Depending on how you interpret Yog's standing in the verse (and the CM cosmology) it should probably win most often than not.

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zgtfreak

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#11  Edited By zgtfreak

Spite. Yog is a nigh-featless beyond infinite-D entity. Even CM fans like Average and Mymom acknowledge this. Battler negs anything he does with Endless Nine, instills change into him with the Golden Truth, and then one shots him. Yog is fodder. Better off pitting him against low to mid-tier multiversals.

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chasekilleen

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#12  Edited By chasekilleen

@zgtfreak:

Any of the Outer God's are beyond change and changeless dude.

But the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will.

Yog-Sothoth and co. gave students the dominion over time and change.

Only a few students of forbidden things have gained inklings of this control, and have thereby conquered time and change.

Yog-Sothoth the SUPREME archetypes and is the archetype of all archetype since the beginning and is hinted to be the archetype of all of the Outer God's

The archetypes, throbbed the waves, are the people of the ultimate abyss; formless, ineffable, and guessed at only by rare dreamers on the low-dimensioned worlds. Chief among such was this informing BEING itself . . . which indeed was Carter’s own archetype. The glutless zeal of Carter and all his forbears for forbidden cosmic secrets was a natural result of derivation from the SUPREME ARCHETYPE. On every world all great wizards, all great thinkers, all great artists, are facets of IT.

Yog-Sothoth is the personification of everything in existence and also limitless outside of space-time continuum.

It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self, not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep; the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign—yet in a flash the Carter-facet realised how slight and fractional all these conceptions are.

Yog-Sothoth is omnipresent and omniscient.

Past, present, future, all are one in Yog-Sothoth. He knows where the Old Ones broke through of old, and where They shall break through again. He knows where They had trod earth's fields, and where They still tread them, and why no one can behold Them as They tread. By Their smell can men sometimes know Them near, but of Their semblance can no man know, saving only in the features of those They have begotten on mankind; and of those are there many sorts, differing in likeness from man's truest eidolon to that shape without sight or substance which is Them. They walk unseen and foul in lonely places where the Words have been spoken and the Rites howled through at their Seasons. The wind gibbers with Their voices, and the earth mutters with Their consciousness. They bend the forest and crush the city, yet may not forest or city behold the hand that smites. Kadath in the cold waste hath known Them, and what man knows Kadath? The ice desert of the South and the sunken isles of Ocean hold stones whereon Their seal is engraver, but who bath seen the deep frozen city or the sealed tower long garlanded with seaweed and barnacles? Great Cthulhu is Their cousin, yet can he spy Them only dimly. Shub-Niggurath! As a foulness shall ye know Them. Their hand is at your throats, yet ye see Them not; and Their habitation is even one with your guarded threshold. Yog-Sothoth is the key to the gate, whereby the spheres meet. Man rules now where They ruled once; They shall soon rule where man rules now. After summer is winter, after winter summer. They wait patient and potent, for here shall They reign again.

The dimensionality of the Mythos is stated to be archetypal infinity.

Then the waves increased in strength, and sought to improve his understanding, reconciling him to the multiform entity of which his present fragment was an infinitesimal part. They told him that every figure of space is but the result of the intersection by a plane of some corresponding figure of one more dimension—as a square is cut from a cube or a circle from a sphere. The cube and sphere, of three dimensions, are thus cut from corresponding forms of four dimensions that men know only through guesses and dreams; and these in turn are cut from forms of five dimensions, and so on up to the dizzy and reachless heights of archetypal infinity.

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zgtfreak

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#13  Edited By zgtfreak

@chasekilleen: Any of the Outer God's are beyond change and changeless dude.

Already mentioned it. Battler would instill change via the Golden Truth.

Also Idk if I really believe you can truly be beyond change, as preforming any action is a form of change.

Yog-Sothoth the SUPREME archetypes and is the archetype of all archetype since the beginning and is hinted to be the archetype of all of the Outer God's

The archetype of Outer Gods who barely have any impressive statements or feats. And Battler is on a permanent archetypal created by, leading towards, and ending at the omnipotent Creator. So the archetype of an overall unimpressive verse is not a win condition here considering both are archetypal in some ways..

Yog-Sothoth is the personification of everything in existence and also limitless outside of space-time continuum.

Not accusing you... but the beyond space-time is irrelevant unless you are an Outerversalist. I addressed the archetype part.

Yog-Sothoth is omnipresent and omniscient.

Yeah, that's useful. Omnipresence is enough to easily best Battler's speed. Too bad he hasn't shown enough to bypass Endless Nine rendering anything he does as non-existence. Hell, even if he had some way to bypass Endless Nine, he has to deal with Battler's resurrection ability that allows his consciousness to exist even after being erased and can think himself back into existence. Yog literally has no way to kill Battler.

The dimensionality of the Mythos is stated to be archetypal infinity.

I don't see how cosmology is relevant in a neutral verse. And Battler should logically be able to add as many lower layers as he wants since he can edit the story of lower layers. And again, the whole ladder created by and ending at omnipotence is quality-superior to any basic cosmology from a metaphysical standpoint. A basic cosmology doesn't get you closer to omnipotence. But again, I don't think cosmology is a deciding factor, even though Battler's is superior from a metaphysical standpoint and even size honestly.

I will say this: Yog has the potential to be god-tier, but he needs more detailed statements. Until then though, Battler kills him very quickly.

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ovy7

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chasekilleen

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@zgtfreak: how does Battler instill change if the whole gist of Archetypes is that they cannot be changed. Do you even know what archetypes even are?

I doubt you even know the meaning of an Archetype when you didn't even know that they cannot change because they are literally the template of everything in existence. Yog-Sothoth is the literal template of all of the archetypal templates in all of history.

All Outer God's are changeless Archetypes because they can cause all change...

Also Yog-Sothoth has direct connections to Azathoth the omnipotent God of Mythos.

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zgtfreak

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@chasekilleen: how does Battler instill change if the whole gist of Archetypes is that they cannot be changed.

Being absolutely changless in all aspects is impossible for anyone not omnipotent. By your logic, an omnipotent can't effect Yog because "Lel change." No.

Do you even know what archetypes even are?

Yes, but you seemingly don't based off the fact you think archetypal in any context is impressive.

Also Yog-Sothoth has direct connections to Azathoth the omnipotent God of Mythos.

I know what you're trying to imply and it doesn't work. He doesn't have enough showings. He isn't Luci.

Battler has far superior showings with manipulating far more complex concepts like true and false, while Yog archetypes a cosmology and the stuff in it, which isn't much based on the info we have. Being the archetype of an entire cosmology and all things in it =\= being the archetype of all things possible, which only an omnipotent can do.

You clearly have a winner in mind, despite how wrong you are. I don't see why you do this.

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deactivated-5f5be9e305ddd

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@zgtfreak said:

Spite. Yog is a nigh-featless beyond infinite-D entity. Even CM fans like Average and Mymom acknowledge this. Battler negs anything he does with Endless Nine, instills change into him with the Golden Truth, and then one shots him. Yog is fodder. Better off pitting him against low to mid-tier multiversals.

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chasekilleen

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@zgtfreak: You do realize that truth and false falls under duality right? Which any of the Outer God's are transdual...

That's untrue as Yog-Sothoth is only second to Azathoth and also he is the archetype of every single thing in existence, including true and false, which falls under Yin and Yang and also under duality.

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zgtfreak

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@chasekilleen: You do realize that truth and false falls under duality right? Which any of the Outer God's are transdual...

You can't be truly transdual as a whole because duality is too broad. Hell, Yog falls under changeless/change and superior/inferior.

That's untrue as Yog-Sothoth is only second to Azathoth and also he is the archetype of every single thing in existence, including true and false

Again, being the archetype of an entire cosmology and all things in it =\= being the archetype of all things possible, which only an omnipotent can do. There is zero evidence to prove that the cosmology that stems from Yog contains concepts like true and false. Those concepts could easily exist outside the cosmology like Yog. By your logic, a cosmology always contains every type of concept possible and thus anyone who has control over said cosmology can control all possible concepts, making almost every multiversal entity omnipotent. No. That's not how it works. The Type IV Multiverse model is distinguished for a reason.

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chasekilleen

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#20  Edited By chasekilleen

@zgtfreak:

You can't be truly transdual as a whole because duality is too broad. Hell, Yog falls under changeless/change and superior/inferior.

The same logic applies that nothing can be truly absolute unless you are an omnipotent.

The Outer God's don't even have any anti-feats proving that they fall under change and changeless. Because all we see are the avatars of the Outer God's and also superiority/inferiority is a "no-shit Sherlock" situation because Yog is inferior in a different way than raw AP.

Carter meeting Yog-Sothoth is proof that Yog-Sothoth is changeless since there is no progression, regression because the past, present and future is happening at the same time with Carter meeting with one of the most ancient avatars of Yog.

The meeting had happened, it was happening and it was going to happen, they even tell us past, present, and future exist simultaneously, therefore this makes everything is eternal.

There is never a moment when they are not "happening", so nothing is lost or gain and hence change doesn't exist.

Again, I would love for you to go through https://hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/tgsk.aspx and https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/dh.aspx where did it ever suggest or even implied that Yog-Sothoth falls under change and changeless.

I dare you give me proof where does it say that Yog-Sothoth or even the mere avatar of the Outer God's are under change/changeless.

@mymom would tell you much better than myself.

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cupofreality1

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@zgtfreak said:

Spite. Yog is a nigh-featless beyond infinite-D entity. Even CM fans like Average and Mymom acknowledge this. Battler negs anything he does with Endless Nine, instills change into him with the Golden Truth, and then one shots him. Yog is fodder. Better off pitting him against low to mid-tier multiversals.

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zgtfreak

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@chasekilleen: The same logic applies that nothing can be truly absolute unless you are an omnipotent.

Still failing to grasp what I meant back then. Oh well. That's your problem.

The Outer God's don't even have any anti-feats proving that they fall under change and changeless.

Yog is changeless, which falls under a duality.

Because all we see are the avatars of the Outer God's and also superiority/inferiority is a "no-shit Sherlock" situation because Yog is inferior in a different way than raw AP.

And? It's still a duality he's bound by, as irrelevant as it is. It's just proof that you cannot be beyond duality completely. I don't even think omnipotent entities can do that. Duality as a whole is too broad to fully be beyond. You can be transdual to certain dualities, but then we need to know what dualities you are transdual to; thus the term "transdual" is meaningless without context. Give me statements of Yog being transdual to true and false.

Carter meeting Yog-Sothoth is proof that Yog-Sothoth is changeless since there is no progression, regression because the past, present and future is happening at the same time with Carter meeting with one of the most ancient avatars of Yog.

The meeting had happened, it was happening and it was going to happen, they even tell us past, present, and future exist simultaneously, therefore this makes everything is eternal.

There is never a moment when they are not "happening", so nothing is lost or gain and hence change doesn't exist.

Quite the flowery way of describing omnipresence.

I dare you give me proof where does it say that Yog-Sothoth or even the mere avatar of the Outer God's are under change/changeless.

If Yog is changeless, he represents the changeless part of the duality of change/changeless and thus falls under a duality. Is that some major weakness? No. But it shows that he is not and cannot be transdual to ALL things.

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chasekilleen

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@zgtfreak: How is Yog under duality if he's above changeless and change?? I asked you to give me proof when has their been an anti-feat of once when Outer God's and even the true forms of Outer God's are under change and changeless state or under duality??

Also that is the avatar of all the Outer God's that's above changeless and changeless state and not even their true forms.

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zgtfreak

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#24  Edited By zgtfreak

@chasekilleen: How is Yog under duality if he's above changeless and change?? I asked you to give me proof when has their been an anti-feat of once when Outer God's and even the true forms of Outer God's are under change and changeless state or under duality??

How does one logically even transcend change/changeless? Explain how that makes sense and is even possible? What goes beyond that? lol You can be one or the other. Perhaps both in certain aspects? But how do you truly go beyond it? Hell, your scan merely described omnipresence.

And since you didn't refute the rest of my argument regarding duality, I assume you concede on the notion of being transdual to duality as a whole?

Also that is the avatar of all the Outer God's that's above changeless and changeless state and not even their true forms.

I don't care.

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chasekilleen

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@zgtfreak: I mistyped it, I mean that rather he is changeless that causes all change and if you look at that way then yes.

Truth falls under change, how does Truth even affect a changeless being like Yog's avatar?? Can Truth even instill concept of change onto beings that are changeless?

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MyMom

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I mean Cthulhu Mythos are all over the place. Some claims that Yog is supreme others Azy, then we have family tree which breaks everything, etc. Even at the First Gate things makes little no sense while Last Void is based off the Platonic World of Forms or Highest Concept as you can get. Everything is also part of Yog including other Outer Gods, concepts, space-time, etc and without him nothing can exist.

OT:

By feats Battler stomps (as anyone with better feats) but High-End I give it to Yog or could go either way.

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zgtfreak

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@chasekilleen: I mistyped it, I mean that rather he is changeless that causes all change and if you look at that way then yes.

Ok, then that's that. He represents the changeless part of the duality of change/changeless and thus falls under a duality.

Truth falls under change,

Change falls under truth. What's stopping Battler from switching him from changeless to changeable? It's the truth and therefore a done deal. Yog holds no dominion over truth. Likewise, he holds no dominion over denial/false and thus has no way to get past Endless Nine.

@mymom I too believe that a max high-end Yog wins, but he has so little explanation of anything to the point that his high-end isn't realistically feasible to me.

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MyMom

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@zgtfreak:

I too believe that a max high-end Yog wins, but he has so little explanation of anything to the point that his high-end isn't realistically feasible to me.

Kinda agree, welp there is nothing more to discuss here then.

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chasekilleen

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@zgtfreak: Doesn't Endless 9 only work on magic??? Do you live in Colorado?? It seems like you like to smoke hash before typing comicvine in your URL.

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zgtfreak

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#30  Edited By zgtfreak
@chasekilleen said:

@zgtfreak: Doesn't Endless 9 only work on magic??? Do you live in Colorado?? It seems like you like to smoke hash before typing comicvine in your URL.

That's what it was originally intended for, but we see it used later to deny Truths, which are not magic considering that humans and angels who don't believe in magic use them. It turned out that Endless Nine is not just restricted to magic:

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I've sent these scans to you before, but like everything else I say, explain, and bring to the table, you ignore it. But enough of this. I won this debate long ago. You resorting to insults really just puts the final nail in the coffin. I have no idea why you always make threads with a clear winner in mind.

@emperorthanos-@jedixman@rogueshadow@morpheus_OP has a clear winner in mind if you look at his arguments and is one-sidedly arguing for a character, while calling the other fodder multiple times in his earlier posts. He also is now resorting to insults. Plus this is a stomp thread against Yog. Plenty of reasons to lock.

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deactivated-5f98b2eb38d48

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Well, between the two, I believe Yog scales to a larger cosmology. Given what I have seen from Umineko, its scaling to ℵ1 at best. Yog on the other hand, scales to an ℵ1 cosmology as well, however, we have this quote:

Time, the waves went on, is motionless, and without beginning or end. That it has motion, and is the cause of change, is an illusion. Indeed, it is itself really an illusion, for except to the narrow sight of beings in limited dimensions there are no such things as past, present, and future. Men think of time only because of what they call change, yet that too is illusion. All that was, and is, and is to be, exists simultaneously.

So this means that every "instant" of the cosmology exist on its own independently in the Lovecraftian cosmology. There are uncountably infinitely many instants in any interval of time, so that would mean that the math would be ℵ1 ^ ℵ1 = ℵ2 giving the Cthulhu Mythos a far superior cosmology due to it being cardinally larger than Umineko's ℵ1.

As for the nature of Yog, I believe, due to him being the Supreme Archetype which cause all change, that puts him above Battler who requires change to use his hax: the change which is archetyped/caused by Yog.

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MyMom

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#32  Edited By MyMom

@anaverageguy123:

Is this your high-end for Yog? I mean I don't see nothing wrong with that, just that with feats I don't find Yog that impressive because we have to rely on bunch of statements.

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zgtfreak

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@anaverageguy123: As for the nature of Yog, I believe, due to him being the Supreme Archetype which cause all change, that puts him above Battler who requires change to use his hax: the change which is archetyped/caused by Yog.

Change should honestly fall under the jurisdiction of truth. It's a much more fundamental concept in my eyes.

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lmaolmaolmao

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@zgtfreak said:

@anaverageguy123: As for the nature of Yog, I believe, due to him being the Supreme Archetype which cause all change, that puts him above Battler who requires change to use his hax: the change which is archetyped/caused by Yog.

Change should honestly fall under the jurisdiction of truth. It's a much more fundamental concept in my eyes.

It doesn't matter which of them is more fundamental.Battler would have to utilise change to fight,which would automatically make him inferior to change.

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zgtfreak

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@lmaolmaolmao: He's using a concept fundamentally superior to change, so it doesn't matter. I can see this turning into an endless loop between us though, so it's whatever.

Anyways... do you think Yog wins or stalemate via Endless Nine? I think Battler stomps still.

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deactivated-5f98b2eb38d48

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@mymom said:

@anaverageguy123:

Is this your high-end for Yog? I mean I don't see nothing wrong with that, just that with feats I don't find Yog that impressive because we have to rely on bunch of statements.

Yep, I agree, problem with Lovecraft is he sheer lack of feats. And yes, I suppose that would be my "high-end" lol.

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lmaolmaolmao

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#37  Edited By lmaolmaolmao

@zgtfreak said:

@lmaolmaolmao: He's using a concept fundamentally superior to change, so it doesn't matter. I can see this turning into an endless loop between us though, so it's whatever.

Anyways... do you think Yog wins or stalemate via Endless Nine? I think Battler stomps still.

Yog can just blitz him I believe.......

Also no.Change>Truths anyday

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zgtfreak

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@lmaolmaolmao: Yog can just blitz him I believe.......

I mean sure he can blitz via omnipresence, but his attacks will be uneffective. I've seen nothing suggesting that he bypasses Endless Nine and revival.

Also no.Change>Truths anyday

Couldn't disagree more on that.

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lmaolmaolmao

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@zgtfreak: Afaik Revival doesn't work in Umineko if you erase them hard enough(as shown with Featherine's and Piece's plot erasure).Yog should be able to replicate that type of Erasure via having access to all points of time and change simultaneously

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zgtfreak

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@lmaolmaolmao: Well Piece replaces your existence with her own, so that's a bit different. You can't revive because she is you now. And Aurora being in Lucifer's league now (though still definitely below him) makes what she did something else entirely. Battler even said she can ignore the rules of the world.

But even if Yog could stop reviving, I don't see him bypassing Endless Nine at all.

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lmaolmaolmao

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#41  Edited By lmaolmaolmao

@zgtfreak said:

@lmaolmaolmao: Well Piece replaces your existence with her own, so that's a bit different. You can't revive because she is you now. And Aurora being in Lucifer's league now (though still definitely below him) makes what she did something else entirely. Battler even said she can ignore the rules of the world.

But even if Yog could stop reviving, I don't see him bypassing Endless Nine at all.

Replacing someone's existence is pretty much erasing them from the plot and "Being in lucifer's league" literally means nothing.We know what Featherine did.She manipulated the plot to "You Die".Now,I doubt there would be something analogous to plot in CM afaik,but plot would basically be something that connects and defines all of change simultaneously,something which Yog should be able to affect due to coexisting across all of change and simultaneously transcending the latter.

Yog should also be able to do what Piece does since his entire shit is about being one in all and all in one bla bla and also having access to all points of change.And the OP does not say that Battler starts with E9 so Yog can blitz him before that

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zgtfreak

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#42  Edited By zgtfreak

@lmaolmaolmao: It's still more than plot manip. Even Truths do that. It's not negging revive via plot manip. It's negging revive since Asumu becomes you. I still don't see Yog begating it. And I still think he drops Yog with a couple of Truths.

We know what Featherine did.She manipulated the plot to "You Die".Now,I doubt there would be something analogous to plot in CM afaik,but plot would basically be something that connects and defines all of change simultaneously,something which Yog should be able to affect due to coexisting across all of change and simultaneously transcending the latter.

Even Truths manipulate the plot, so it's clearly something more, like her ignoring the rules of the world. And Endless Nine should be passive unless Battler decided to not use it? And while Yog does have the speed advantage, it shouldn't be enough to blitz Battler before he can even process anything. Still a blitz, but not on that level.

Edit: By Asumu I mean Piece.

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zgtfreak

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@lmaolmaolmao: And I'm skeptical of changeless Yog. Chase's scan simply described omnipresence.

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LordBaller

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@chasekilleen: Please stop making threads on this site using characters who the majority of their power relies on hyperbole statements from their authors to make them sound cooler and more intimidating.

Cthulhu literally got knocked out by a spaceship.

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lmaolmaolmao

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@zgtfreak said:

@lmaolmaolmao: It's still more than plot manip. Even Truths do that. It's not negging revive via plot manip. It's negging revive since Asumu becomes you. I still don't see Yog begating it. And I still think he drops Yog with a couple of Truths.

Its basically plot manipulation.By "plot manipulation" I mean a super haxxed control over totality,where one can just negate regen by just saying "You can't regenerate"(basically what truths do,just more potent).And negging regen by "becoming you" still means that if all of your existence gets redefined they can't regenerate.

In the face of that awful wonder, the quasi-Carter forgot the horror of destroyed individuality. It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence’s whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign—yet in a flash the Carter-facet realised how slight and fractional all these conceptions are.

As you can see Yog has Boundless control over change and stuff("animating essence") and is literally what defines it.Battler would have to change to fight,which would fall under Yog.(Thanks to averageguy's blog on Cthulhu for this)

Truths manipulate the plot, so it's clearly something more, like her ignoring the rules of the world. And Endless Nine should be passive unless Battler decided to not use it? And while Yog does have the speed advantage, it shouldn't be enough to blitz Battler before he can even process anything. Still a blitz, but not on that level.

Omnipresence literally means Yog is already present there at the moment of the fight.No amount of speed can match omnipresence.Oh and from what I heard the actual archetypes don't have any Anti Feats to transcending change,since apparently all the forms that the mortals saw were just avatars

Edit: By Asumu I mean Piece.

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zgtfreak

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#46  Edited By zgtfreak

@lmaolmaolmao: And negging regen by "becoming you" still means that if all of your existence gets redefined they can't regenerate.

Well yes, I agree with that.

As you can see Yog has Boundless control over change and stuff("animating essence") and is literally what defines it.Battler would have to change to fight,which would fall under Yog.

Battler may fall under change and him activating Truths fall under change as well; however Truths themselves shouldn't necessarily fall under change or changeless by default. It's not that their beyond it (as being beyond it makes no sense), but Truths are simply just that: truth/facts. Saying "This person never existed" is just a fact of reality. Not really about being change or changeless. It simply is. So while Battler himself is going through the motions of change, what he is using (aka Truths) are not. Him saying "Yog never existed" shouldn't really fall under change and changeless because again... it simply is. Truth is a much more fundamental concept than the concept of changeless. Likewise, him targeting the concept of changeless itself and using a Truth to say such a concept never existed should do the trick.

Omnipresence literally means Yog is already present there at the moment of the fight.No amount of speed can match omnipresence.

Well you can have speed matching it, aka speed fast enough to where you exist at all points in time everywhere, but Battler doesn't have such speed anyways so whatever. Endless Nine should be passive unless Battler is screwing around.

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lmaolmaolmao

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@zgtfreak said:

Battler may fall under change and him activating Truths fall under change as well; however Truths themselves shouldn't necessarily fall under change or changeless by default. It's not that their beyond it (as being beyond it makes no sense), but Truths are simply just that: truth/facts. Saying "This person never existed" is just a fact of reality. Not really about being change or changeless. It simply is. So while Battler himself is going through the motions of change, what he is using (aka Truths) are not. Him saying "Yog never existed" shouldn't really fall under change and changeless because again... it simply is. Truth is a much more fundamental concept than the concept of changeless. Likewise, him targeting the concept of changeless itself and using a Truth to say such a concept never existed should do the trick.

"Changing" the concept of stasis is an illogical statement.Stasis is the opposite of Change,which in itself is an unchangeable concept,trying to "change" change will itself fall under Change.Battler would have to change to fight,hence he won't touch Yog

Well you can have speed matching it, aka speed fast enough to where you exist at all points in time everywhere, but Battler doesn't have such speed anyways so whatever. Endless Nine should be passive unless Battler is screwing around.

You can't have speed matching it.True Omnipresence will be beyond all forms of temporal axes

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deactivated-616bfe0c39bd8

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Yog Sothoth blink the verse

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PushedCaraway

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I believe Battler would win

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Reaper4

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Battler stomps