Yoda and Sidious (Canon) vs All Might and All For One (MHA)

Winner by KO, Incapacitation or Death

Standard gear and abilities

Fight takes place at an unpopulated city setting at night

tie (all might and one for all's special abilities match the forces of the star wars characters just about equally) though if I decided to pick a side then I'd say the star wars team has the advantage since they could just combined force powers

Team all might

Sidious fought faster then Anakin could perceive. Anakin, a trained force wielded with precog, previously reacted to starfighters which are stated to move at “a respectable fraction of lightspeed”. Yoda is at least somewhat comparable.

So yeah, team MHA gets blitzed, then cut in half. Or they get easily TP’d by either, or rag-dolled via TK

@laskt: Sources? As fairly sure that’s legends/EU isn’t it?

@laskt: @kingcrimson: That’s not even EU/Legends, that’s pre-2014 N-canon. The RoTS novel is only canon insofar as it does not contradict what is shown on-screen in the movie, as the later and more authoritative source. In the movies Anakin never witnessed Mace and Palpatine’s battle, we see him enter too late, which is explicitly contradicted by the novel.

Disregarding EU feats, Sidious and Yoda should still win, it'd only be a lot tougher.

@laskt: Isn’t the ROTS novel Legends, and therefore not an applicable source for this fight?

@alphaq: @idrisiangraecus: Fair enough, never realized it wasn’t cannon. Still, with precog, they can still TP them out of the fight

@laskt: Yeah I agree, just pointing it out.

@idrisiangraecus: No problem, honestly didn’t know that lol

Force users in a tough fight

All for One or All Might honestly just kill them with air pressure. Force Users never had particularly impressive use of in combat telekinesis in Canon, at least as far as I have seen.

@eredin12: You're jumbling up a lot of concepts and your post is formatted in a way that makes it incredibly difficult to read. I'll break this stuff down so that it is more clear.

Before the Disney acquisition in 2014, there was essentially George Lucas's vision of Star Wars canonicity and the vision of the company as a whole which included the canon classes. Lucas believed that only the movies and, later, the Clone Wars series was canon. The company as a whole created the EU as a kind of secondary canon, but one ultimately subordinate to Lucas's movies.

Lucas Licensing's managing editor Sue Rostoni said in 2001, "Our goal is to present a continuous and unified history of the Star Wars galaxy, insofar as that history does not conflict with, or undermine the meaning of Mr. Lucas's Star Wars saga of films and screenplays."[38] Director of Fan Relations Steve Sansweet clarified:

"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences ... The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation."[39]

Any conversation on EU canon has to necessarily detach itself from Lucas's vision, because he considered it all non-canon, which is why we have things like Boba Fett being alive and Palpatine's return. So, naturally, EU debates have to disregard such things.

You allude to the point about Lucas being "heavily involved" in the creation of the Revenge of the Sith novel; I have never seen evidence of personal involvement, just editing on the point of his office. Still, Lucas would later clarify that he doesn't consider any of the novels canon, which puts Stover's novel squarely in the C-Canon category, which is subservient to G-Canon like the movies. It's kind of a moot point, however, because even if you consider it G-Canon then it was simply retconned by the new portrayal of events in the movie, which is released later. It would be a similar retcon to Lucas having Han shoot second in A New Hope, if that was the case.

In August 2005, Lucas said of the Expanded Universe:

"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."^[40]

Because having canon status in Legends it is required to be consistent with G-Canon and the movies it is clear the even post-2014 that Anakin entering after the conclusion of their fight was canon to both Legends and Lucas's more limited view of canonicity.

You make other points about events that happened after the 2014 acquisition which I don't really feel like addressing because they effectively made all of Legends non-canon, so it's irrelevant to this discussion. As I understand they released a few books under the Legends banner but it had the same authority as fan-fiction for the new canonicity.

bitch, is this for real?

is there even anything they can do hat can match the powers of all might, and all for one?

he doesn't even need to use the all for one, with just his remains he can stomp them alone, with all gor one is a foul spite

even worse,no one is actually arguing whether they can tank their attcks or not, they just argue which cannon is cannon - gues what? matters not, cuz they lose

@eredin12

Lucas contradicted himself a few times on his view of EU as canon, but there were canon classes, so G canon was moves, Lucas statmnets , and novelizations if they do not contradict G canon, if they do then they are C canon, evreything other than that that is approved by George and his company is C canon but EU was c canon( George himslef said that Starkiller is canon ) and when they said true history they meant true history of G canon, that is what Lucas meant when he siad it is not HIS universe, he meant G canon, things he created

Where you're going wrong is saying that anything that happens in the novel that is contradicted by the movies is C-canon. It is actually N-Canon, G-Canon is the canon class with the highest authority but as one moves into C-Canon everything in G-Canon is inclusive. If you think about is graphically G-Canon is the centre and C-Canon is surrounding and inclusive of it, it is applies to G-Canon is applies to C-Canon.

EU is not just C-Canon. Lucas saying Starkiller is canon is basically just him theoretically elevating the existence of a C-Canon character to that of a G-Canon character, not elevating the entire C-Canon class.

It was C canon, not non-canon but that is irelvant, it is canon to legends

No, anything contradicted by a higher canon class becomes N-Canon.

He edited it and approved it, it was canon if it not contradicts moves, some parts of novels were canon, some are not, but now Disney made it all non-canon so it is irelvant, but it is canon to legends like it always was

The scene that we are talking about was only canon to Legends before the movie updated that scene.

That is nonsense, for something to be canon to legends it does not need to be consistent with G canon at all, They are literally sperate continuity according to Disney, half of the legends contradict G canon, like everything, Dark Empire, GM Luke Skywalker, New Jedi Order, Abeloth,... Complete nonsense, not only that but G canon does not exist anymore, Disney is now God of Star Wars and there is no G canon anymore, now everything is the same level of canon to Disney( New Vader comics are just as much canon as moves)

Nope, they have to conform to the movies to be part of pre-2014 Legends canon. What you're talking about is things that don't contradict pre-2014 G-Canon because they take place before or after the stories we see on the big screen, not things that actually contradict things on the big screen. You're mistaking sources that are themselves implicitly referenced by the movies and sources that are consistent with the events of the movies. If Grevious is presented as running from Obi-Wan in the ROTS novel but challenging him in the movie, it is the movie that takes supremacy, even in Legends, because it comes from the more authoritative source. You can't say that Grevious running becomes C-Canon, it simply becomes N-Canon.

They are separate but everything in the movies is unquestionably canon to Legends, I've already provided sources of this being confirmed.

I know, as far as Disney is concerned the old EU doesn't exist.

Moves are not part of legends and nobody cares what Lucas thinks anymore since Disney is now God of Star Wars

The point of using EU feats in a debate is using canon that is no longer canon. We're harking back to a time when Lucas's word meant something when these discussions arise.

My point is this is canon to legends but non-canon to Disney canon, Disney said there are 2 sperate canons, legends, and their canon

By the same logic you could say things that are clearly non-canon are now part of Legends, like the cringey Star Wars christmas dramas. The old canon Legends material still exists as non-canon but you're taking an occasion where two mutually exclusive events are shown and taking what is explicitly stated to be the less authoritative source as canon to Legends, which was confirmed to always be coming from of a place of trying not contradict anything Lucas put on the screen.

I'm just going to explain this as best I can. At present there exists only Disney Canon and some non-canon material under the Legends banner, which is a continuation of the now redundant timeline from before the Disney acquisition. Though non-canon now, and therefore only gaining any new material at present when Disney releases something under the Legends banner, pre-acquisition it went by different canon classes. Lucas was the progenitor of the highest type of class, but although he didn't personally consider anything except his own movies/TV show canon, he acknowledged the EU as a type of secondary canon. This secondary canon was always inclusive of the primary G-Canon and in any contradictions between the movies and EU material, the movies always took precedence.

There is basically the main material in the movies as the central canon and then the movies plus the EU as the secondary, broader, EU canon. Until now you've referenced that there was material in the EU that is not mentioned in the movies, which misses the point. This EU material simply exists in the broader conception of canon used by the company and not in the narrower conception used by Lucas.

That is based on a statement from Han that is contradicted by feats considering a Stormtrooper survived that attack. Even if you say that feat actually shook the Star Destroyer we saw that in the context of combat the Attack Potency is so low as to not even kill peak humans.

Also the Yoda feat that you referenced has already been debunked.

@eredin12:

You know what? I am tired of you constantly low balling star wars

Okay?

That attack was not concentrated on stoorpotrper but on 50 million ton ship, so him surviving means nothing, just like how people that are clsoe survive when Superman shakes entire continents with his punch or when he shakes entire Metropolis

But Superman shaking metropolis by punching somone proves that he can punch with the insane amount of force, but that punch is not concentrated on people nearby so they survive

So agian that attack was concentrated on a ship, not on one ant-like person ( compared to ship)

But that proves that Luke can shake 50 millions of tons with his telekinetic blast

Now Imagine all that power concentrated on one person? That is scary

The reason Superman doesn't hurt Metropolis residents when he punches someone hard enough to shake the city is because he's the hero and people aren't allowed to die on his watch. The effects of collateral damage that he causes are moderated with the genre and story that he is taking part in.

This would be more like the equivalent of Superman punching Batman, with Catwoman in the same building commenting upon feeling the tremors that Clark is creating shaking the entire city, but with Batman still surviving the punch. You really have two options; either the punch's attack potency is do diffuse that it can't actually hurt Batman or Catwoman is talking out of her ass. Han had no way of knowing if Luke was actually shaking the ship but even if we take his word as Gospel that attack was still so lackluster as to fail to kill a normal human.

Luke wasn't using the attack to shake the Star Destroyer, he was actually throwing an attack at a Stormtrooper that pissed him off.

Bump

Are All Might and All for One in their primes or in their weakened states ?

Since we are not talking about the complete overpowered EU versions, I can see the MHA team lose in their weakened states while in their prime they should be capable of winning against the force users. Following All Mights statement, he was roughly 60 times stronger in his prime and something similar should apply to AFO which would make them a totally different powerhouse in comparison to their weakened forms.