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#1 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

The Super Soldier battle you been waiting for!

In this corner weighing a ton in Mjolnir Armour, Hero of the Earth, Maaaaaster Chiiieeef!

In this Corner weighing also over a ton, the Angel of Death in Power Armour, Spaaaace Maaaarine!

Moral On (What Morals LOL)

In Character

Standard Gear

Master Chief of Halo 4 and beyond

Space Marine is a Veteran Marine

Battle in a arena. Arena has wrecked cars as cover!

Commence Battle!

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#2 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright I'll offer my opening debate tomorrow.

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#3 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: My opener. Im using Brother Raclaw, Sergeant Learchus, and other Veteran Space Marines.I think Master Chief is as comparable to a Vet Marine (never comparable to a Captain or Chapter Master lol.) and the Gear of said Marine will consist of ....

Chain Sword, Bolt Pistol, Storm Bolter, Grenades, Thunder Shield, Plasma Pistol.

So On to the Space Marine Physical abilities.

Adeptus Astartes, or more commonly known as Space Marine, is the Super Soldier of the 40th Millennium.

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Scan 1 and 4: Space Marine as per the Codex.

Scan 2 and 3: The 17 Organs that makes a Space Marine and bestows their super abilities. (note the Acid Gland is missing in the Imperial Fist Legion that the Black Templars share Gene-seed with... Raclaw has no Acid Spit)

Space Marine starting Strength from surgery is equal to....

"starting" Marine can carry 1,350 kg, lift 2,700 kg, and push 5,400 kg."

Deathwatch RPG, Page 208

As time goes on they reach easy 5 toner status in overall strength.

Speed of a Space Marine is enough to track the projectiles of Bullets and the faster than human sight Eldar xenos. Overall they are very fast with constant references to Gene Enhance reflexes and speed.

Training and Recruitment

Next lets look at the Recruitment of Raclaw.

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As seen from the best of a whole Planet Raclaw was singled out. He showed great skill as a mere teenager. (All Space Marines must be in their teens for any hope of the Gene-seed taking root.)

Then he was implanted with half the Organs needed to become a Scout. (Note again. In 90% Space Marine Chapters Scouts are Space Marines in Training. However in the Black Templar Chapter Scouts are called Neophytes and when become worthy of being a space Marine become Initiates)

His first lesson from his Space Marine Mentor was a brutal one.

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Raclaw fresh with his Organ Implants and in serious pain battles a possible recruit gone wrong. This Beast is Marine itself in stats with Berserk fury.

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Raclaw in his first battle. They face Orks. What makes this great is he fight the toughest Orks in the galaxy, the Nobz, to save a fellow Marine. Such skill and prestige in his first battle.

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Here Raclaw chops thru hordes of Cultist and monologues his training.

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Raclaw as a novice makes his way to a Chaos Champ, a warrior of thousands of years and added gifts of chaos, and slays him with the meekest gear of Scout Armour, Chain Sword, and Bolt Pistol.

Raclaw Training is the kind that all Space Marine go thru. Space Marines are the best of the best from entire planets and from day one Tarin, train, train, and then go to a years long wars. The Space Marine trains at least 5 times a day in close combat, combat tactics, and range shooting in their standard routine.

Gear:

Now down to gear. Power Armour! Bolters! and Chain Swords! Oh My....

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The Chain Sword is really just a adamantium tip Chainsaw in balance sword form. Added to this are the Anti Vehicle Krak Grenades and Frag Grenades he carri

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The Bolter is such a great weapon. Mach speed Rocket Bullet/Grenade. The Storm Bolter is much much bore. A rapid Firing twin link Bolter.

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The Storm Shield is a Force Field Device in a shield.

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Chain Sword.

The Plasma Pistol is a Pistol the shoots Magnetic covered Gas heat close to the core tempature of the Sun (27,000 degrees) and one shots about anything.

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So with the tools and the talent the standard Veteran Space Marine should crush the best Spartan.

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#4 Posted by Stompa (1495 posts) - - Show Bio

now i have to play space marine.....god damnit.

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#5 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stompa: Its a real good game.

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#6 Posted by Stompa (1495 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@Stompa: Its a real good game.

yeah i know i played it through but after your vids i have to do so again

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#7 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

Opening Argument

Gear

Z-130 Directed Energy Rifle

Z-180 Close Combat Rifle

Z-110 Directed Energy Pistol

Z-390 High-Explosive Munitions Rifle

Z-040 Attenuation Field Generator (2)

Strength

Raclaw isn't the only one that has fought highly trained enemies before donning their suit.

From Helljumper

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From The Fall of Reach

He went to the boxing ring, slipped through the ropes, and stood there waiting.This was starting to make sense. It was a mission. John had received orders from a superior officer, andthe four men were now targets.The big ODST pushed through the ropes and the others gathered to watch. “I’m going to rip you topieces, meat,” he grunted through clenched teeth.John sprang off his back foot and launched his entire weight behind his first strike. His fist smashed intothe man’s wide chin. John’s left hand followed and impacted on the soldier’s jaw.The man’s hands came up; John stepped in, pinned one of the man’s arms to his chest, and followedthrough with a hook to his floating ribs. Bones broke.The man staggered back. John took a short step, brought his heel down on the man’s knee. Three morepunches and the man was against the ropes . . . then he stopped moving, his arm and leg and neck til tedat unnatural angles.The three other men moved. The one with the bloody nose grabbed an iron bar. John didn’t need orders this time. Three attackers at once—he had to take them out before theysurrounded him. He might be faster, but he didn’t have eyes in the back of his head.The man with the iron bar swung a vicious blow at John’s ribs; John sidestepped, grabbed the man’shand, and clamped it to the bar. He twisted the bar and crushed the bones of his attacker’s wrist.John snapped a side kick toward the second man, caught him in the groin, crushing the soft organs andbreaking his target’s pelvis.John pulled the bar free—whipped around and caught the third man in the neck, hitting him so hard theODST was propelled over the ropes.“At ease, Number 117,” Chief Petty Officer Mendez barked. John obeyed and dropped the bar. Like the pin, it seemed to take too long for the impromptu weapon tohit the deck.The ODSTs lay crumpled on the ground, either unconscious or dead.

And ODST's aren't just canon fodder that die every other second. They actually accomplish missions and have minor enhancements (although they are trivial compared to SPARTAN enhancements).

In fact, they even had their own game that displayed what they could do.

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Fall of Reach

pg. 72 – Punches one trainer in an exoskeleton and leaves dents in his titanium armor, and sends another 8 feet away with a simple kick

pg. 73 – John rips out a machine gun that was molded into a trainer's robot exoskeleton.

As for Master Chief with armor, he can easily punch through titanium, SPARTAN III armor (a lesser SPARTAN II, Kelly, defeated 3 SPARTAN III's easily).

His strength is roughly estimated to be a couple tons, since he has been known to lift Warthogs before, which weigh 3.5 metric tons, and he has punched through reinforced Wraith armor, which is 47 tons (not bench press just punching through the entire vehicle).

Speed

Note that the armor in no way makes him slower. If anything, it makes him faster.

All of these below excepts from the Fall of Reach novel are before they updated their armor (they had just gotten their MARK IV armor which didn't have any energy shields and were less efficient than the ones you see in the games).

From The Fall of Reach.

Dr. Hasley explaining SPARTAN II running speeds

“Your Spartans can run at bursts of up to fifty-five KPH,” he explained. “Kelly can run a little faster, Ithink. They will only get quicker as they adjust to the ‘alterations’ we’ve made to their bodies. They canlift three times their body weight—which, I might add, is almost double the norm due to their increasedmuscle density. And they can virtually see in the dark.”

Master Chief and his team running

The Chief and his team sprinted up the half-kilometer sandstone slope in thirty-two seconds flat. The hill ended abruptly—a sheer drop of two hundred meters straight into the ocean.

SPARTAN II's compared to humans

Halsey waved the video away. “Normal humans don’t have the reaction time or strength required to drive this system,” she explained. “You do. Your enhanced musculature and the metal and ceramic layers that have been bonded to your skeletonshould be enough to allow you to harness the armor’s power. There has been . . . insufficient computer modeling, however. There will be some risk. You’ll have to move very slowly and deliberately until you get a feel for the armor and how it works. It cannot be powered down, nor can the response be scaled back. Do you understand?”

Estimates on reaction speeds

Dr. Halsey pondered this new data. “They should not be performing so well. There must be unexplained synergistic effects brought on by the combined modifications. What are their reaction times?” “Almost impossible to chart. We estimate it at twenty milliseconds,” Mendez replied. He shook his head, then added, “I believe it’s significantly faster in combat situations, when their adrenaline is pumping.” “Any physiological or mental instabilities?” “None. They work like no team I’ve ever seen before. Damn near telepathic, if you ask me. They were dropped in these caves yesterday, and I don’t know where they got black suits or the rope that for that maneuver, but I can guarantee they haven’t left this room. They improvise and improve and adapt. “And,” he added, “they like it. The tougher the challenge, the harder the fight . . . the better their morale becomes.” Dr. Halsey watched as the

John experimenting after augmentations

Was everything broken in this room? He pulled the pin from the locking collar of the bench press. John walked to the center section - supposedly one gee. He held the pin a meter off the deck and dropped it. It clattered on the deck. It looked as if it had fallen normally....but somehow it also looked slow to John. He set the timer on his watch and dropped the pin again. Forty-five-hundredths of a second.

Now keep in mind that the MJOLNIR armor doubles all statistics, including strength, speed, and reaction times by 5.

Master Chief easily dodging plasma Banshee fire

Bolts of superheated plasma from the Banshees punctuated the air.The Chief dodged to the right, then to the left; he ducked. Their aim was getting better.

In Fall of Reach pg.92-93 John dodged numerous gunfire easily, including point-blank machine gun fire (they were stun rounds, but that didn't effect the speeds).

In Fall of Reach pg. 264 John is able to run half a kilometer stretch in 17 seconds with a torn Achilles tendon.

Skills

  • Halo : Uprising
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  • Other
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  • Halo Blood Line (SPARTAN Black Team Black, who were generally accepted to be inferior to John)
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Master Chief has also out-wrestled numerous Brutes and Elites before, which are both considered his equal in terms of physical strength. Also, this was after days and days of relentless combat in a mission wherein they had no breaks whatsoever. In one encounter an Elite had an energy sword and he still won.

For numbers, I don't think Master Chief is going to get overwhelmed. He's fought in numerous wars (in which he defeated entire Covenant armies by himself), and took on waves of Covenant and Forerunners alike in Halo 4 with limited assistance.

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SPARTAN II's in Halo Wars

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The video below is not canon but usable because the guys that made this video (RoosterTeeth) work for Bungie, who created Halo and designed it so it was realistic and true to the SPARTANS (minus the personalities).

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From The Fall of Reach.

Dodging and tanking lots of Needler fire (which also detonate on impact)

Explosive needles bounced off the Chief’s armor, detonating as they hit the ground. He saw the flash of aplasma bolt—side stepped—and heard the air crackle where he had stood a split second before.One other problem: there were easily a thousand of them.

Master Chief/John was also trained to always go for kill shots and double tap, and the below are descriptions of Linda, the Sniper of the team's accuracy feats. Master Chief isn't too far behind in terms of accuracy, so it is roughly comparable.

From First Strike

Linda firing through small opening in Banshee cockpit

The Chief craned his head back and saw the pilot of the lead Banshee slump, slide off the flier, and plummet to the ground. The trailing Banshee was riderless as well… only a blood-splattered cockpit and cowling. Linda still had him covered-had taken out both pilots with precise fire. She had to be close.

Firing from impossible positions with near-impossible accuracy

The triangular marker centered on a rope that ran between two transit tubes and dangled perilously close to the high-intensity light beam. It was a barely discernable thread that ran through a hard shadow cast by a nearby catwalk. John hit his image enhancers. Through the glare of the light, and in the depths of the shadow, he caught the flicker of reflected optics. Linda used both the brilliant light and the darkness to hide. John angled the Banshee to her. He clipped the tether line from his belt to the frame of the Banshee and squeezed his thighs tighter onto the seat. When he was thirty meters away, he made visual contact. Linda had the rope coiled about a boot and wrapped about one forearm. She held her sniper rifle in one arm, and John could only surmise that she had been firing from such an impossible position.

Durability

From The Fall of Reach

Before MJOLNIR (he had an exoskeleton suit, but nowhere near advanced as MJOLNIR armor)

The three men, however, didn’t have that problem. They fired. John dove to his left. He caught three rounds in his side—knocking the breath from his body. One bullet penetrated his black suit. He felt it ping off his ribs and pain slashed through him like a red-hot razor. He ignored the wound and rolled to his feet. He had a clear line of fire. He squeezed the trigger once—a three-round burst caught the center guard in the forehead.

I honestly don't know how he got shot in the first place (he was only a teenager then) but he still shrugs it off and ignores it like a boss, and still has the accuracy to shoot the guy in his forehead.

As for the MJOLNIR suit itself, it is made of thick titanium plates/outer shell, and a titanium bodysuit underneath. and his famed Energy Shields that have tanked plasma fire (around 3,000 degrees, which isn't nearly as hot as your gun was said to be, but I'll get to that later).

The MJOLNIR suit has also a function where it adapts to the temperatures, making extreme temperatures easier to adapt to, or in some cases, no need to adapt.

Now, in Halo 4 we saw the MJOLNIR armor take on Forerunner shots (albeit less efficiently) and still survived, and the Forerunners weaponry were vastly superior. However, the main part where John gets a massive upgrade was when The Librarian gave him a gift to defeat the Didact, and increased his human evolution, making him even stronger.

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As a result he couldn't be killed directly by The Didact anymore, although he was still effected by his powers (he just couldn't be instantly reduced to ashes). Since the Forerunners weaponry are way more advanced than the Plasma Covenant weaponry, it's same to assume Chief could tank most of those weaponry now.

Chief's fight with The Didact

-Contains spoilers. Don't watch it if you haven't completed the game.

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Also if his John gets injured, his suit will automatically heal him by injecting himself with Biofoam, which is said to be able to temporarily replace muscle, organ, skin and other tissue easily, even allowing them to perform in battle as if their injury didn't happen for hours on end.

Here's a little taste of it :

From Ghost of Onyx pg. 364

Hasley commenting on Kurt-051's (another SPARTAN II) injuries

"You're wounded," she stated, and seemed to stare into his body. "Internal bleeding...your liver...massive laceration..." Her gaze came back into focus, and her voice dropped into a whisper. "You're going to bleed out, Kurt, if I don't operate. The only thing holding you together inside is biofoam."

Also :

It says here that the bolt will explode when impacted on the target. Unfortunately, Master Chief's shields will prevent them from actually penetrating his armor, and even if it does, he has more than one layer of titanium armor, so only one layer will be effected. He has tanked fuel rod cannons and rocket launcher fire before as well (and explosive Needler rounds, which are less dangerous).

The Chain Sword is really just a adamantium tip Chainsaw in balance sword form. Added to this are the Anti Vehicle Krak Grenades and Frag Grenades he carries

Any feats on The Chain Sword? I have seen gameplay and your videos, but they seem to only harm Orcs who do not have as advanced armor as Master Chief (if any).

Alright that's my argument for today!

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#8 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: My opening debate is out.

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#9 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek:

Alright. This Spartan isn't the only one with Strength or Speed.

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Scan 1: Calgar in the Slower terminator Armour throws attacks that are Blurs.. and thats real slow Terminator Armour to Power Armour.

Scan 2: Blood Gorgon Space Marine slaps a Bolt Gun shot out of the air from point blank.

Scan 3: A Space Marine slaps 3 Bolt Shells ot of the air at near point blank. Bolt Shells are faster than Bullets by alot at close distance. Looking at Mach 1.5 first 25 yards.

Now due note some Space Marines have better reaction feats than others. Many examples of some Space Marines seeing other fight in blurs they dont even fully register. However most Veteran Marines have shown these Speeds.

Example of this was translated into the Space Marine Game. They wanted to make the game fair and made it only last a few seconds but in reality when focus they can maintain this level thru a whole battle.

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Speed wise the season Veteran Marine is as comparable Speed wise.

Space Marines are not weak and easy 5 toners themselves.

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Skip to 7:45

Space Marines can push a 40 ton Artillery shell for Orbit Guns!

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2 feats here!

Skip to 4:35

Space Marine strength forces a easy 30 ton Turret against its hydraulics to blow the bridge.

Then This space Marine Power Armour easily survives a ship crash from low orbit to planet.

The Thunder Shield is a near Impenetrable Force Field and Shield as well.

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Skip to 2:00. The Iron Halo Energy Field is weaker and look how it Tanks the Warp Explosion and fall to the planet.

Also at 1:50 shows Space Marines of the highest have face Daemon Princes with bare hands.

How tough is a Daemon Prince?

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Typical Daemon Princes can wreck whole armies on there own with ease.

It says here that the bolt will explode when impacted on the target. Unfortunately, Master Chief's shields will prevent them from actually penetrating his armor, and even if it does, he has more than one layer of titanium armor, so only one layer will be effected. He has tanked fuel rod cannons and rocket launcher fire before as well (and explosive Needler rounds, which are less dangerous).

The Bolter definitely packs 1/3 the blast of the Rocket Launcher.

There used to take down Vehicles.

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As seen in this video Bolters fires a Rocket Propelled Bullet with depleted metal core for Armour piercing and Adamntium Tip for sever Penetration. Then the large Explosive Charge as well.

This weapon may not be much single shot but with the Storm Bolter....

Skip to :45 seconds. The Storm Bolter is 120+ Rounds of Death. That Shield is going down as is armour under this Barrage.

If all fails the Plasma Pistol will work.

Any feats on The Chain Sword? I have seen gameplay and your videos, but they seem to only harm Orcs who do not have as advanced armor as Master Chief (if any).

Its been Described by some novels as only capable use vs Power Armour is attacking the joint areas, weaker thickness areas, unprotected areas, ect.

However as tough as Master Chief Armour may seem It has Joint areas clearly and it also in no way stronger than Terminator Armour. Loken with his Chain sword manage to cut thru fully thru Abaddons Terminator Armour with force.

So fighting Master chief would be no different than another Power Armour Space Marine.

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#10 Posted by Xanni15 (6791 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: My opening debate is out.

Calling out yourself? lol :P

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#11 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL I didn't notice that. I thought I tagged CadenceV2.

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#12 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek:

Alright. This Spartan isn't the only one with Strength or Speed.

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Scan 1: Calgar in the Slower terminator Armour throws attacks that are Blurs.. and thats real slow Terminator Armour to Power Armour.

Scan 2: Blood Gorgon Space Marine slaps a Bolt Gun shot out of the air from point blank.

Scan 3: A Space Marine slaps 3 Bolt Shells ot of the air at near point blank. Bolt Shells are faster than Bullets by alot at close distance. Looking at Mach 1.5 first 25 yards.

1. Master Chief also sees things in blurs, and while the Terminator armor may slow him down, Master Chief doesn't have that problem because his armor makes him even faster, with better reaction speeds (5x faster).

In Fall of Reach pg. 256, John states that he sees the Orbital Drop Shock Troopers in slow motion because of his enhanced senses.

2. It says there that "Sabtah had no choice. He slapped the round away." That is inferring that he wasn't quick enough to dodge a Mach 1 Bolt at point-blank range (which is generally depicted to be faster than sound). Also, if you didn't know, Master Chief has slapped a rocket launcher out of his way before.

In Fall of Reach pg. 263 - 264, Master Chief dodges and DEFLECTS a missile empty-handed.

Now, let's compare :

Mach 1.5 is 990 + mph (after 25 yards). Also, Mach 1 is 340.29 meters per second.

M16 rifle is roughly 6336 mph (after 10 yards) or 853 meters per second.

Almost all guns are already faster than sound (minus pistols), and Master Chief dodged machine gun fire point-blank without MJOLNIR and right after augmentations. Add that to his recent upgrade by the Librarian, his current MJOLNIR reaction speeds, and the fact that he has dodged faster and more lethal rounds by Forerunner and Covenant weaponry, he should be safe even with Bolt weapons at close range, even if they are faster than normal bullets.

3. Like I explained above, Master Chief can dodge more than 3 bullets (a regular machine gun fires 10-25 bullets per second), and he did it at close range. Also, put in the factor that this is 2013 and the guns fire this fast. Master Chief was dodging human weaponry in 2552 + with ease, along with alien technology that was vastly superior.

Also another fact :

In Fall of Reach pg. 252, Cortana reveals (while in Chief's helmet) that he has a 20 millisecond plus reaction speed, and it will actually increase in time, and there has been year gaps.

Now due note some Space Marines have better reaction feats than others. Many examples of some Space Marines seeing other fight in blurs they dont even fully register. However most Veteran Marines have shown these Speeds.

Example of this was translated into the Space Marine Game. They wanted to make the game fair and made it only last a few seconds but in reality when focus they can maintain this level thru a whole battle.

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Speed wise the season Veteran Marine is as comparable Speed wise.

Space Marines are not weak and easy 5 toners themselves.

A note that I want to clear up : the Space Marines seem a little clunky and slow (although that goes away when they melee) when in combat and when they sprint. Is that taken away in the books or is it because of the game?

Anyways, Master Chief and his SPARTAN comrades also moved at blurs when looked upon by Marines, ODSTs, and even some Covenant forces. However, Master Chief has radar senses that tell where his enemies are, their bio-signatures, and more.

Here's some bits of MJOLNIR armor Kurt-051 wore (that wasn't even as advanced as Master Chief. He purposely chose downgraded armor to fit in with his SPARTAN III class).

From Ghosts of Onyx

Kurt called up the roster on his display, still stained by his own blood, and checked the TEAMBIO. Will's vitals were flatlined. Holly's signals...was entirely missing."

This means there is no way they will sneak up on Chief if they pretend to play dead, since can know their vital stats.

On top of that he will know his enemies exact location, because his helmet's HUD includes a radar.

Also, for the extra organs (including the heart), Master Chief has thermal, night, and other types of vision that he can use, so he'll know exactly where to shoot.

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Skip to 7:45

Space Marines can push a 40 ton Artillery shell for Orbit Guns!

Impressive, but nothing SPARTANS cannot also do.

From Fall of Reach pg.239 (2010 edition)

James sprinted forward, slammed into the stone, put his shoulder alongside theirs...and pushed. His left arm had been burned away from the elbow down, but he didn't even whimper. The monolith moved; it inched toward the hole....then titled and went over. It landed with a dull thud and a crunching noise.

Note : That monolith weighed several tons, and a SPARTAN with one arm pushed the monolith over, although he had some trouble at first.

Oh yeah, and another interesting fact I stumbled upon is, ironically, the Scorpion UNSC (Human) tank weighs more than the Wraith (Covenant Alien) tank, which is more advanced. The Scorpion is 66 metric tons, and Master Chief could easily punch and break these with his bare hands, as depicted in the novels and video games.

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2 feats here!

Skip to 4:35

Space Marine strength forces a easy 30 ton Turret against its hydraulics to blow the bridge.

Then This space Marine Power Armour easily survives a ship crash from low orbit to planet.

The Thunder Shield is a near Impenetrable Force Field and Shield as well.

I already stated above that Master Chief can destroy 60 ton + vehicles with his bare hands, so I'll move on to the other points.

Space Marine surviving space ship crash from low orbit to planet? Wow. These Space Marines must be Master Chief's missing cousins! xD

Guess what? Master Chief has done the same, and more!

Falling from space to Earth and surviving without any dents in his armor

(Note : For some reason I can't post videos. Maybe because there are already lots of videos in my post via your videos)

Surviving in Space easily in Halo 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN0ijKww7BY

Falling to Earth in the beginning of Halo 3 and surviving

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f91ozP8cTpo

Survives in Space for a long period of time in Halo 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcVh28uEDm4

Yeah...John has quite a record when it comes to being in space...

On top of that, note that in the Halo 3 video (approx. 1:45) the Marine says the gel layer could have taken most of the impact. That and the titanium bodysuit are vital parts in Chief's survival. The gel layers are designed to adapt and absorb impact, whether dull or sharp, as well as extreme temperatures. The titanium bodysuit (the black one) offers further protection under the titanium alloy suit, and flexibility, so a sword isn't going to cut it. Eh? Get it? Cut it? Ahem..moving on..

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Skip to 2:00. The Iron Halo Energy Field is weaker and look how it Tanks the Warp Explosion and fall to the planet.

Also at 1:50 shows Space Marines of the highest have face Daemon Princes with bare hands.

How tough is a Daemon Prince?

Master Chief's armor in Halo 3 was significantly different and less advanced than Master Chief's in Halo 4; especially before his Librarian upgrade, which allowed him to tank Forerunner weapons that completely disintegrate you.

Light Rifle and Scattershot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItjCLz94lno

All Halo 4 weapons (skip to 2:58 for Forerunner/Promethean weaponry)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItjCLz94lno

Not only do these weapons not have to penetrate your armor in order to defeat you, but they can ricochet off the walls to injure your Space Marine even more! And the best part about it? He's practically immune to the "composing" part of it (the turning to ashes bit). Sure, the actually weapon fire may bounce off him, but those will be a breeze with his upgraded evolution and MJOLNIR armor.

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Again, nothing a SPARTAN can't beat. He's beaten countless aliens that are tougher, with more sophisticated equipment. There's also a similar species in the Halo universe to match.

Those are all Brutes. They are incredibly durable, strong (can bench press multiple tons), savage, and can easily rip apart humans. And guess what? Master Chief owned all of them, and that's just a small squad of Brutes (who don't even compare to Forerunners). Now, you see that reddish Brute in the middle? That's a Brute Chieftain, the commander, or alpha male of the pack.

Brute Chieftain

You see that weapon he's holding? It's called a Gravity Hammer. It literally manipulates gravity to push or pull onto the victim with massive force, usually by shock-waves, although it's so strong the victims either do not notice it or die too quickly to feel the difference. Nonetheless, Master Chief's armor can tank it and dodge it, even in the games where he is downgraded.

In First Strike pg. 311 - 313, John defeats one of these Brutes in hand-to-hand combat, even after tough combat situations right before. This proves that Chief can defeat others that are physically superior to him.

Now if you think that's not enough, feast your eyes on the Mgalekgolo (Hunter).

From The Flood pg. 167 - 168 – Master Chief is injured by a sharp weapon in his shoulder muscles (it impales him) and still defeats one of these bad babies.

Yep. Master Chief kills does daily. These are easily physically stronger than SPARTAN II's, and their Plasma Cannons are possibly the most deadly portable weapon prior to Halo 4. They also have unknown alloys that are unbreakable, and can be compared to Adamantium. However, John has taken countless swings from their massive shields, as well as their even deadlier Plasma Cannons (thanks to his armor and shields), so again, he could probably take on the Daemon Prince.

Even a downgraded, clunkier Live-Action Master Chief could take out one of these Hunters. Keep in mind that these are even harder to kill then any other Covenant species because they have the toughest alloy armor, and are composed of many alien worms, so you can't just headshot it and kill it. You have to destroy all the worms (or at least a large majority).

From Halo 4 : Forward Unto Dawn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whJyZ2J-Ghg

It says here that the bolt will explode when impacted on the target. Unfortunately, Master Chief's shields will prevent them from actually penetrating his armor, and even if it does, he has more than one layer of titanium armor, so only one layer will be effected. He has tanked fuel rod cannons and rocket launcher fire before as well (and explosive Needler rounds, which are less dangerous).

The Bolter definitely packs 1/3 the blast of the Rocket Launcher.

Unfortunately, Master Chief's shields can tank up to 6 Jackhammer SPNKr Rocket Missiles simultaneously without being harmed at all, and survive without even a dent in his armor, so I'm confident that the Bolter won't be anything John can't handle.

In The Flood pg. 105 - 143, Master Chief tanks numerous Fuel Rod Cannon shots (Covenant weaponry) and is unscathed thanks to his shields. These Fuel Rod Cannons are even more advanced than the SPNKr Human Rocket Launchers, and yet he still tanks them.

In The Flood pg. 36 - 37, Master Chief takes a fully charged Plasma Pistol (not the Warhammer 40k one lol) to his back, and is yet again unharmed. Also, not even a second after being hit, he spins around and kills the Grunt.

I'll post some more later, but I have to go now.

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#13 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek:

2. It says there that "Sabtah had no choice. He slapped the round away." That is inferring that he wasn't quick enough to dodge a Mach 1 Bolt at point-blank range (which is generally depicted to be faster than sound). Also, if you didn't know, Master Chief has slapped a rocket launcher out of his way before.

In Fall of Reach pg. 263 - 264, Master Chief dodges and DEFLECTS a missile empty-handed.

Now, let's compare :

Mach 1.5 is 990 + mph (after 25 yards). Also, Mach 1 is 340.29 meters per second.

M16 rifle is roughly 6336 mph (after 10 yards) or 853 meters per second.

Almost all guns are already faster than sound (minus pistols), and Master Chief dodged machine gun fire point-blank without MJOLNIR and right after augmentations. Add that to his recent upgrade by the Librarian, his current MJOLNIR reaction speeds, and the fact that he has dodged faster and more lethal rounds by Forerunner and Covenant weaponry, he should be safe even with Bolt weapons at close range, even if they are faster than normal bullets.

3. Like I explained above, Master Chief can dodge more than 3 bullets (a regular machine gun fires 10-25 bullets per second), and he did it at close range. Also, put in the factor that this is 2013 and the guns fire this fast. Master Chief was dodging human weaponry in 2552 + with ease, along with alien technology that was vastly superior.

Also another fact :

In Fall of Reach pg. 252, Cortana reveals (while in Chief's helmet) that he has a 20 millisecond plus reaction speed, and it will actually increase in time, and there has been year gaps.

Sabtec couldnt outright dodge the Bolt at point blank range but he sure perceived and react to it with ease. Same with the other Feats I posted.

As for your statement of Cortana its only that a statement. When in game Master Chief is more than once shot, exploded, and physicly tag he shows he is not Spider Man speed himself. Heck his own Cut Scenes rarely reflect that.

As my Space Marine Game shows clearly what Bullet Time is to a Astartes.

A note that I want to clear up : the Space Marines seem a little clunky and slow (although that goes away when they melee) when in combat and when they sprint. Is that taken away in the books or is it because of the game?

Anyways, Master Chief and his SPARTAN comrades also moved at blurs when looked upon by Marines, ODSTs, and even some Covenant forces. However, Master Chief has radar senses that tell where his enemies are, their bio-signatures, and more.

Here's some bits of MJOLNIR armor Kurt-051 wore (that wasn't even as advanced as Master Chief. He purposely chose downgraded armor to fit in with his SPARTAN III class).

From Ghosts of Onyx

Kurt called up the roster on his display, still stained by his own blood, and checked the TEAMBIO. Will's vitals were flatlined. Holly's signals...was entirely missing."

This means there is no way they will sneak up on Chief if they pretend to play dead, since can know their vital stats.

On top of that he will know his enemies exact location, because his helmet's HUD includes a radar.

Space Marines not cluncky at all. In the Books they move with super Human Grace as well Speed. Humans thought speed cant keep up.

“He fired. The shot was released an instant before Grulgor’s finger tightened on his trigger. The stub-bullet from the handgun was of such small gauge that all it did was nick the metal of the bolt pistol where it struck the frame, but even that was enough to deflect the commander’s aim. The bolt shell from Grulgor’s pistol went wide, keening off a girder near Garro’s head and arcing away in a ricochet.

Grulgor reacted with preternatural speed and turned, throwing his battle knife at the housecarl. The Astartes blade buried itself in Kaleb’s chest, the impact throwing him down to collide with one of the gunnery bay’s control lecterns. It all happened in an instant, barely a second from the report of the stub-gun.”

The Flight Of The Einstein p.296

“Combat reflexes took over and Rafen drew his bolt pistol in a fraction of a second, his other hand snatching at the hilt of the battle knife resting in a sheath along the line of his spine. He fired a single shot at the High Chaplain, aiming low, aiming to wound, to slow him down. But he might well have called out his intentions in a shout. Astorath swept his blade aside and intercepted the bolt mid-flight with a crack of sound, the round blasting harmlessly into the dirt. Rafen dodged to one side as the weapon’s fast, fluid arc bisected the space where he had been standing, and he rolled, tumbling over red dirt and half-buried rocks.”

p 231-232. Hammer and Bolter. Redeemed

“Gabriel squeezed a couple of shells out of his bolter and watched the little contrails that poured out behind them, as though in slow motion. They spun through the thick, gaseous air and then slipped through a gap in the lava flow, punching into the kaleidoscope of reflections beyond.”

Dawn of War Omnibus p.258

"The first guard died without a sound, Uriel's knife hammering through the base of his skull. He dropped and Uriel wrenched the blade clear, spinning low and driving it into the second guards groin. Blood sprayed and the man shrieked in horrified agony. A las gun was raised and Uriel lunged forward, smashing his fist into the foe's face, the augmented muscles of his power armor smashing the man's head into shards. Uriel spun on his heel, dodging a thrusting bayonet, and thundering his elbow into the last guards chin, taking the base of his skull off. Teeth and blood splattered the bunker door.

He dropped into a defensive crouch, dragging his knife clear of the corpse beside him and cleaning the blade on its overalls. The killing of the guards had taken less than three seconds."

Chains of Command

“‘Disperse!’ bellowed Astelan, sprinting to his right. His power armour took him across the ground in huge leaps, covering half a dozen metres with every pace.”

Tales Of Heresy p.438

They can haul but, perceive bullets in Slow Mo, and move faster that Humans ever could.

Loading Video...

Unlike Master chief Space Marine were made for Close Combat as much as range. While CQC they are deadly against Nobs, Blood Letter Daemons, and Chaos Marines who are all 5+ toners and just as durable.

I already stated above that Master Chief can destroy 60 ton + vehicles with his bare hands, so I'll move on to the other points.

Space Marine surviving space ship crash from low orbit to planet? Wow. These Space Marines must be Master Chief's missing cousins! xD

Guess what? Master Chief has done the same, and more!

Falling from space to Earth and surviving without any dents in his armor

On top of that, note that in the Halo 3 video (approx. 1:45) the Marine says the gel layer could have taken most of the impact. That and the titanium bodysuit are vital parts in Chief's survival. The gel layers are designed to adapt and absorb impact, whether dull or sharp, as well as extreme temperatures. The titanium bodysuit (the black one) offers further protection under the titanium alloy suit, and flexibility, so a sword isn't going to cut it. Eh? Get it? Cut it? Ahem..moving on..

Actually Space Marines been around since the 1980s. Master chief is a child to the Astartes legends :)

This feat inst nearly as impressive the Titus one. Titus tanked a Warp Explosion and was propelled faster than Terminal Velocity.

Master Chief simply fell at Terminal Velocity and had a shield for the heat.

Also the Sword will cut fine.

As seen there is MANY weak spots in this armor where the Chain Sword can cut. No way is the flexible material of the joints , Neck, and Mid section as solid as the Solid Green plates are. They wouldn't be flexible if they were. Master Chief armor base on Modern Day armor designs and that's why.

I think the chain Sword can Cut It. Get it? Cuuut iiiit. ;)

Not only do these weapons not have to penetrate your armor in order to defeat you, but they can ricochet off the walls to injure your Space Marine even more! And the best part about it? He's practically immune to the "composing" part of it (the turning to ashes bit). Sure, the actually weapon fire may bounce off him, but those will be a breeze with his upgraded evolution and MJOLNIR armor.

These weapons would do alot of harm if not for 2 things.

1) As I should in the Organ Larman Cells heal any wound instantly and SMs have multiple major organs.

2) I gave this Marine a Storm Shield that can tank whatever range attack you throw at him.

No Caption Provided

As see alot of cover to utilise here.

Both of these allow minimal damage in a range match.

Again, nothing a SPARTAN can't beat. He's beaten countless aliens that are tougher, with more sophisticated equipment. There's also a similar species in the Halo universe to match.

Those are all Brutes. They are incredibly durable, strong (can bench press multiple tons), savage, and can easily rip apart humans. And guess what? Master Chief owned all of them, and that's just a small squad of Brutes (who don't even compare to Forerunners). Now, you see that reddish Brute in the middle? That's a Brute Chieftain, the commander, or alpha male of the pack.

Brute Chieftain

You see that weapon he's holding? It's called a Gravity Hammer. It literally manipulates gravity to push or pull onto the victim with massive force, usually by shock-waves, although it's so strong the victims either do not notice it or die too quickly to feel the difference. Nonetheless, Master Chief's armor can tank it and dodge it, even in the games where he is downgraded.

In First Strike pg. 311 - 313, John defeats one of these Brutes in hand-to-hand combat, even after tough combat situations right before. This proves that Chief can defeat others that are physically superior to him.

Now if you think that's not enough, feast your eyes on the Mgalekgolo (Hunter).

From The Flood pg. 167 - 168 – Master Chief is injured by a sharp weapon in his shoulder muscles (it impales him) and still defeats one of these bad babies.

Yep. Master Chief kills does daily. These are easily physically stronger than SPARTAN II's, and their Plasma Cannons are possibly the most deadly portable weapon prior to Halo 4. They also have unknown alloys that are unbreakable, and can be compared to Adamantium. However, John has taken countless swings from their massive shields, as well as their even deadlier Plasma Cannons (thanks to his armor and shields), so again, he could probably take on the Daemon Prince.

Even a downgraded, clunkier Live-Action Master Chief could take out one of these Hunters. Keep in mind that these are even harder to kill then any other Covenant species because they have the toughest alloy armor, and are composed of many alien worms, so you can't just headshot it and kill it. You have to destroy all the worms (or at least a large majority).

From Halo 4 : Forward Unto Dawn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whJyZ2J-Ghg

I will admit Brute Chieftans are Tough and so are monster things.... what about these guys?

Multi Hundred ton Blood Thirster with Space Marine Speed to boot?

Carnifex. Another 60+ toner Beast with Wolverine Healing?

Or Eldar Farseers?

Loading Video...

The Farseer is the Eldar Chick.

Vet Marines kill these things. Blood Thirsters not so much lol but the rest Veteran Marine have.

There is simply MORE DANGEROUS aliens in the 40k verse that Space Marines fight and handle.

Unfortunately, Master Chief's shields can tank up to 6 Jackhammer SPNKr Rocket Missiles simultaneously without being harmed at all, and survive without even a dent in his armor, so I'm confident that the Bolter won't be anything John can't handle.

In The Flood pg. 105 - 143, Master Chief tanks numerous Fuel Rod Cannon shots (Covenant weaponry) and is unscathed thanks to his shields. These Fuel Rod Cannons are even more advanced than the SPNKr Human Rocket Launchers, and yet he still tanks them.

In The Flood pg. 36 - 37, Master Chief takes a fully charged Plasma Pistol (not the Warhammer 40k one lol) to his back, and is yet again unharmed. Also, not even a second after being hit, he spins around and kills the Grunt.

I'll post some more later, but I have to go now.

I think a Strom Bolter would break that shield, I mean many gunshots due all the time lol. Also I could one shot it with the Plasma Pistol.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

As seen Plasma reaches Heat of a Small sun. Never seen Master Chief tank a sun before.

Once this Veteran gets in close its game over.

Avatar image for jameskm716
#14 Posted by JamesKM716 (2018 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a fine debate gentlemen.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#15 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

This is a fine debate gentlemen.

Thank you!

@CadenceV2 said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek:

2. It says there that "Sabtah had no choice. He slapped the round away." That is inferring that he wasn't quick enough to dodge a Mach 1 Bolt at point-blank range (which is generally depicted to be faster than sound). Also, if you didn't know, Master Chief has slapped a rocket launcher out of his way before.

In Fall of Reach pg. 263 - 264, Master Chief dodges and DEFLECTS a missile empty-handed.

Now, let's compare :

Mach 1.5 is 990 + mph (after 25 yards). Also, Mach 1 is 340.29 meters per second.

M16 rifle is roughly 6336 mph (after 10 yards) or 853 meters per second.

Almost all guns are already faster than sound (minus pistols), and Master Chief dodged machine gun fire point-blank without MJOLNIR and right after augmentations. Add that to his recent upgrade by the Librarian, his current MJOLNIR reaction speeds, and the fact that he has dodged faster and more lethal rounds by Forerunner and Covenant weaponry, he should be safe even with Bolt weapons at close range, even if they are faster than normal bullets.

3. Like I explained above, Master Chief can dodge more than 3 bullets (a regular machine gun fires 10-25 bullets per second), and he did it at close range. Also, put in the factor that this is 2013 and the guns fire this fast. Master Chief was dodging human weaponry in 2552 + with ease, along with alien technology that was vastly superior.

Also another fact :

In Fall of Reach pg. 252, Cortana reveals (while in Chief's helmet) that he has a 20 millisecond plus reaction speed, and it will actually increase in time, and there has been year gaps.

Sabtec couldnt outright dodge the Bolt at point blank range but he sure perceived and react to it with ease. Same with the other Feats I posted.

As for your statement of Cortana its only that a statement. When in game Master Chief is more than once shot, exploded, and physicly tag he shows he is not Spider Man speed himself. Heck his own Cut Scenes rarely reflect that.

As my Space Marine Game shows clearly what Bullet Time is to a Astartes.

Well Master Chief could easily see the trajectory and dodge the bullet itself, so arguably they are in the same ballpark.

Also in-game Master Chief has been downgraded for the plot sake. If he had above 20 millisecond reaction in the games he would just walk through the entire Covenant and Forerunner armada easily. Also they didn't want to implement the slow motion scenes in the game, as that would be impossible for the player (and the Warhammer 40k style slow motion game function wouldn't fit in the Halo game mechanics).

A note that I want to clear up : the Space Marines seem a little clunky and slow (although that goes away when they melee) when in combat and when they sprint. Is that taken away in the books or is it because of the game?

Anyways, Master Chief and his SPARTAN comrades also moved at blurs when looked upon by Marines, ODSTs, and even some Covenant forces. However, Master Chief has radar senses that tell where his enemies are, their bio-signatures, and more.

Here's some bits of MJOLNIR armor Kurt-051 wore (that wasn't even as advanced as Master Chief. He purposely chose downgraded armor to fit in with his SPARTAN III class).

From Ghosts of Onyx

Kurt called up the roster on his display, still stained by his own blood, and checked the TEAMBIO. Will's vitals were flatlined. Holly's signals...was entirely missing."

This means there is no way they will sneak up on Chief if they pretend to play dead, since can know their vital stats.

On top of that he will know his enemies exact location, because his helmet's HUD includes a radar.

Space Marines not cluncky at all. In the Books they move with super Human Grace as well Speed. Humans thought speed cant keep up.

“He fired. The shot was released an instant before Grulgor’s finger tightened on his trigger. The stub-bullet from the handgun was of such small gauge that all it did was nick the metal of the bolt pistol where it struck the frame, but even that was enough to deflect the commander’s aim. The bolt shell from Grulgor’s pistol went wide, keening off a girder near Garro’s head and arcing away in a ricochet.

Grulgor reacted with preternatural speed and turned, throwing his battle knife at the housecarl. The Astartes blade buried itself in Kaleb’s chest, the impact throwing him down to collide with one of the gunnery bay’s control lecterns. It all happened in an instant, barely a second from the report of the stub-gun.”

The Flight Of The Einstein p.296

“Combat reflexes took over and Rafen drew his bolt pistol in a fraction of a second, his other hand snatching at the hilt of the battle knife resting in a sheath along the line of his spine. He fired a single shot at the High Chaplain, aiming low, aiming to wound, to slow him down. But he might well have called out his intentions in a shout. Astorath swept his blade aside and intercepted the bolt mid-flight with a crack of sound, the round blasting harmlessly into the dirt. Rafen dodged to one side as the weapon’s fast, fluid arc bisected the space where he had been standing, and he rolled, tumbling over red dirt and half-buried rocks.”

p 231-232. Hammer and Bolter. Redeemed

“Gabriel squeezed a couple of shells out of his bolter and watched the little contrails that poured out behind them, as though in slow motion. They spun through the thick, gaseous air and then slipped through a gap in the lava flow, punching into the kaleidoscope of reflections beyond.”

Dawn of War Omnibus p.258

"The first guard died without a sound, Uriel's knife hammering through the base of his skull. He dropped and Uriel wrenched the blade clear, spinning low and driving it into the second guards groin. Blood sprayed and the man shrieked in horrified agony. A las gun was raised and Uriel lunged forward, smashing his fist into the foe's face, the augmented muscles of his power armor smashing the man's head into shards. Uriel spun on his heel, dodging a thrusting bayonet, and thundering his elbow into the last guards chin, taking the base of his skull off. Teeth and blood splattered the bunker door.

He dropped into a defensive crouch, dragging his knife clear of the corpse beside him and cleaning the blade on its overalls. The killing of the guards had taken less than three seconds."

Chains of Command

“‘Disperse!’ bellowed Astelan, sprinting to his right. His power armour took him across the ground in huge leaps, covering half a dozen metres with every pace.”

Ah I see. Well I have some feats too.

From The Fall of Reach

“Yes. The trainers in those exoskeletons can run at thirty-two KPH, lift two tons, and have a thirty millimetermini gun mounted on self-targeting armatures—stun rounds, of course. They’re also equippedwith the latest motion sensors and IR scopes. And needless to say, their armor is impervious to standardlight weapons. It would take two or three platoons of conventional Marines to take that bunker.”

Those aren't even the SPARTANS. Those were the trainers in the bulky exoskeletons the soldiers used to help train the newly augmented SPARTAN II's. Now, for Master Chief himself :

From The Fall of Reach.

“Your Spartans can run at bursts of up to fifty-five KPH,” he explained. “Kelly can run a little faster, Ithink. They will only get quicker as they adjust to the ‘alterations’ we’ve made to their bodies. They canlift three times their body weight—which, I might add, is almost double the norm due to their increasedmuscle density. And they can virtually see in the dark.”

Here it states clearly that right after their augmentations at maybe 14 or so years of age, that they can run at 55 kilometers per hour, and it will only increase to the "alterations" they made to their bodies. Note that this is before they donned their armor, and before John got his Librarian upgrade. Now, after they don their armor their statistics are boosted up to 5x, so their running speed would be 275 kilometers per hour, plus the fact that they will improve over time.

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Unlike Master chief Space Marine were made for Close Combat as much as range. While CQC they are deadly against Nobs, Blood Letter Daemons, and Chaos Marines who are all 5+ toners and just as durable.

That's nice, but SPARTANS were made for all forms of combat, not just ranged. Here are some examples :

Master Chief holds back, and still easily neutralizes Marines. This was before John knew his armor's capabilities.

Displaying how everything is slow to him with his enhanced senses

Defeating a high ranked Elite in close combat and with his armor shields recharging

Slaps missile out of his way, gets caught by another explosion head on, yet runs half a kilometer in 17 seconds with a torn Achilles tendon.

Defeating a squad of Jackals easily in hand-to-hand combat

Displays his ability to snipe easily and takes down more Jackals in close combat (he literally breaks their energy shields)

After battle fatigue, John still manages to defeat a Brute

As you can see, Master Chief can easily fight in close ranged combat.

Also, Master Chief can easily lift 10 tons, if not more.

Again, I will refer again to the trainers in the exoskeletons.

From The Fall of Reach

“Yes. The trainers in those exoskeletons can run at thirty-two KPH, lift two tons, and have a thirty millimetermini gun mounted on self-targeting armatures—stun rounds, of course. They’re also equippedwith the latest motion sensors and IR scopes. And needless to say, their armor is impervious to standardlight weapons. It would take two or three platoons of conventional Marines to tAake that bunker.”

If the bulky exoskeletons could lift two tons, imagine how much Master Chief could lift! Multiply that by 5 via armor and that's easily 10 tons plus right there.

I already stated above that Master Chief can destroy 60 ton + vehicles with his bare hands, so I'll move on to the other points.

Space Marine surviving space ship crash from low orbit to planet? Wow. These Space Marines must be Master Chief's missing cousins! xD

Guess what? Master Chief has done the same, and more!

Falling from space to Earth and surviving without any dents in his armor

On top of that, note that in the Halo 3 video (approx. 1:45) the Marine says the gel layer could have taken most of the impact. That and the titanium bodysuit are vital parts in Chief's survival. The gel layers are designed to adapt and absorb impact, whether dull or sharp, as well as extreme temperatures. The titanium bodysuit (the black one) offers further protection under the titanium alloy suit, and flexibility, so a sword isn't going to cut it. Eh? Get it? Cut it? Ahem..moving on..

Actually Space Marines been around since the 1980s. Master chief is a child to the Astartes legends :)

This feat inst nearly as impressive the Titus one. Titus tanked a Warp Explosion and was propelled faster than Terminal Velocity.

Master Chief simply fell at Terminal Velocity and had a shield for the heat.

Also the Sword will cut fine.

1980's? Wow that's impressive. Halo was only in development since the 1990's ongoing. They may have had concept ideas in the 1980's but nothing developed yet (other than the initial RTS Halo game which was soon scratched out and abandoned).

As for Titus tanking a Warp Explosion, Master Chief has gone through countless missions and fought enemies in space, in slip-space travel. He's also survived in the vacuums of space and fallen/taken damage faster than supersonic speeds (as displayed in Cole Protocol).

And that's not a shield. That's actually just a piece of rubble from the ship that's he's carrying. And in no way is he holding it for the heat (if he is that's an artist mistake), because in Halo 3, he falls without the shield and his Liquid Gel layer alone could tank that atmospheric re-entry, let alone his shields/armor.

Loading Video...

I'll post the video again since I couldn't the last post.

There are actually two things I want to point out.

From 0:00 - 0:53 Cortana explains how Master Chief also has extreme luck in circumstances where even his abilities aren't enough to survive (such as his ship being sucked into a black hole). This isn't just PIS though. This was done to show John to also be a metaphor or Humanity's struggle. As a result, Master Chief has the powers to rival, if not defeat a Space Marine, plus extra luck to occupy him.

From 1:34 - 1:50 a Marine states that Chief's Liquid Gel layer absorbed most, if not all of the impact from his orbital/atmospheric re-entry, so swords and plasma shouldn't to too much damage to his gel layer, meaning his armor is even more durable.

As seen there is MANY weak spots in this armor where the Chain Sword can cut. No way is the flexible material of the joints , Neck, and Mid section as solid as the Solid Green plates are. They wouldn't be flexible if they were. Master Chief armor base on Modern Day armor designs and that's why.

I think the chain Sword can Cut It. Get it? Cuuut iiiit. ;)

They are more flexible because they are titanium bodysuit, but they are in no way significantly weaker than the titanium plates. In space pressure effects every part of the body, so if the bodysuit was weaker, it would have torn or even broken, but it didn't.

And as I stated above, orbital re-entry didn't even destroy his liquid gel layer that was beneath his Titanium armor plates and his Titanium bodysuit.

Another note is that the gel layers and internal systems literally adapt to extreme temperatures, high velocity/g-forces, and huge amounts of PSI, so damaging it is nearly impossible. Well, except for Forerunner weaponry.

Not only do these weapons not have to penetrate your armor in order to defeat you, but they can ricochet off the walls to injure your Space Marine even more! And the best part about it? He's practically immune to the "composing" part of it (the turning to ashes bit). Sure, the actually weapon fire may bounce off him, but those will be a breeze with his upgraded evolution and MJOLNIR armor.

These weapons would do alot of harm if not for 2 things.

1) As I should in the Organ Larman Cells heal any wound instantly and SMs have multiple major organs.

2) I gave this Marine a Storm Shield that can tank whatever range attack you throw at him.

No Caption Provided

As see alot of cover to utilise here.

Both of these allow minimal damage in a range match.

As I've stated before, SPARTAN's have thermal vision, so they will see through the armor and see all of their major organs (they did that to the Covenant and identified where to shoot). Also, they can't heal from complete incineration. The Forerunner weapons don't really work like that.

Loading Video...

These weapons were designed to kill and turn enemies to ashes without penetrating armor (even though they do penetrate armor most of the time).

Loading Video...

Skip to 21:35

As you can see, Master Chief tanked a full-on "composing" blast from the Cryptum, the Didact's vehicle. This means, from the Librarian's genetic manipulation, that John cannot be killed by Forerunner molecular manipulation, let alone Plasma fire.

Forr the Storm Shield, is it the shield he is wielding that generates a forcefield around his entire body, or just that shield that produces a forcefield around the actual shield? Either way I am confident that Chief's shields can match the Space Marine's, since it has tanked Forerunner weapon fire even before Librarian's upgrade, which is vastly superior to Covenant weaponry. Also, John's shields have tanked major cannon fire and heavy weapons as well. In fact, as I said before, it can possibly tank near-molecular manipulation now.

Also another thing to take out the factor of the storm shield was the Z-040 Attenuation Field Generator (2) I stated in my original post that Chief would have. These devices literally drain the shields and health of the target, and it covers a huge radius. Want to know the best part? When it explodes, or detonates, it renders the victim to ashes after it disintegrates.

More info on Forerunner weapons :

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I will admit Brute Chieftans are Tough and so are monster things.... what about these guys?

Multi Hundred ton Blood Thirster with Space Marine Speed to boot?

Carnifex. Another 60+ toner Beast with Wolverine Healing?

Or Eldar Farseers?

Loading Video...

The Farseer is the Eldar Chick.

Vet Marines kill these things. Blood Thirsters not so much lol but the rest Veteran Marine have.

There is simply MORE DANGEROUS aliens in the 40k verse that Space Marines fight and handle.

How about the Gravemind?

Loading Video...

A huge parasitic alien that created a huge virus/infection that spread across the galaxy. It's pretty much made up of biomass, and is almost impossible to kill. It even has millions of zombie-like minions that are actually intelligent enough to wield weapons.

But guess what? Master Chief kept it at bay for periods of time, and fought through hundreds of armies of Flood (he's also immune to their infections). The Gravemind is easily more advanced than the other enemies you posted, since this one could simply infect them. The thing's just too large and is a galactic-level threat (universal if not for the Halo rings stopping their progress for a couple thousand years by eradicating all food sources for them). It also has all the memories of the previous infected it has gone through, so it has over thousands of years of knowledge and experience.

Oh yeah, and The Didact.

Loading Video...

Sure, he didn't beat him, but he didn't die either (thanks to Librarian's upgrades). However, with the help of Cortana, he did kill (or BFR) the Didact using none other than the Pulse Grenade I have in my arsenal. Yeah. The grenade's that powerful.

Unfortunately, Master Chief's shields can tank up to 6 Jackhammer SPNKr Rocket Missiles simultaneously without being harmed at all, and survive without even a dent in his armor, so I'm confident that the Bolter won't be anything John can't handle.

In The Flood pg. 105 - 143, Master Chief tanks numerous Fuel Rod Cannon shots (Covenant weaponry) and is unscathed thanks to his shields. These Fuel Rod Cannons are even more advanced than the SPNKr Human Rocket Launchers, and yet he still tanks them.

In The Flood pg. 36 - 37, Master Chief takes a fully charged Plasma Pistol (not the Warhammer 40k one lol) to his back, and is yet again unharmed. Also, not even a second after being hit, he spins around and kills the Grunt.

I'll post some more later, but I have to go now.

I think a Strom Bolter would break that shield, I mean many gunshots due all the time lol. Also I could one shot it with the Plasma Pistol.

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As seen Plasma reaches Heat of a Small sun. Never seen Master Chief tank a sun before.

Once this Veteran gets in close its game over.

Above I have stated my own arsenal, including the Pulse Grenade who took out a planet-buster, and a huge cannon that could instantaneously reduce the toughest foes to ashes without having to even dent or penetrate armor. Further examples include :

I found something else from Halo that is similar to Warhammer 40k.

This weapon is also a pistol and fires highly concentrated Forerunner/Promethean bolts, that when fired enough times, can completely dissolve organic matter. However, if you charge it at close range, it instantly reduces the enemy to ashes, regardless of armor and all (displayed to easily kill SPARTAN IV's in Multiplayer).

Plasma does reach the heat of a small sun, but John isn't exactly alienated when it comes to Plasma...get it? Alienated? Because he faces aliens? Hehehehehe...

Moving on, John has tanked atmospheric re-entry, slipspace travel and various enemy encounters in it, Covenant Plasma-fire that could also rival the heats of various stars (the shots have produced holes through entire UNSC Frigates) Forerunner weaponry that works on a molecular level, and attempts of "composing" by The Didact. I'm sure at the state he is now, he could possibly survive small sun temperatures.

Oh, and before I forget I was re-reading some of my Halo novels, and I found out that Master Chief actually has active camouflage built-into his MJOLNIR armor (it just isn't used much, especially in the games where they make you pick it up. I knew SPARTAN III's in the novels had built-in active camouflage though).

From Fall of Reach pg. 209

Crossing through these would be more difficult than the jungle. They donned camouflage cloaks that masked their thermal signatures and crawled through the muck on their stomachs.

That's another advantage of the MJOLNIR armor.

Avatar image for pokergeist
#16 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek:

Ah I see. Well I have some feats too.

From The Fall of Reach

“Yes. The trainers in those exoskeletons can run at thirty-two KPH, lift two tons, and have a thirty millimetermini gun mounted on self-targeting armatures—stun rounds, of course. They’re also equippedwith the latest motion sensors and IR scopes. And needless to say, their armor is impervious to standardlight weapons. It would take two or three platoons of conventional Marines to take that bunker.”

Those aren't even the SPARTANS. Those were the trainers in the bulky exoskeletons the soldiers used to help train the newly augmented SPARTAN II's. Now, for Master Chief himself :

From The Fall of Reach.

“Your Spartans can run at bursts of up to fifty-five KPH,” he explained. “Kelly can run a little faster, Ithink. They will only get quicker as they adjust to the ‘alterations’ we’ve made to their bodies. They canlift three times their body weight—which, I might add, is almost double the norm due to their increasedmuscle density. And they can virtually see in the dark.”

Here it states clearly that right after their augmentations at maybe 14 or so years of age, that they can run at 55 kilometers per hour, and it will only increase to the "alterations" they made to their bodies. Note that this is before they donned their armor, and before John got his Librarian upgrade. Now, after they don their armor their statistics are boosted up to 5x, so their running speed would be 275 kilometers per hour, plus the fact that they will improve over time.

I think its great to see some kind of numbers attach to MC stats. The problem in this is determining just how much they had improve. There is no numbers or statements to really reflect.

I on the other hand have many many feats and stats of Space Marine strength without Power Armour. With Power Armour its a 20% Increase.

Space Marines are also faster and stronger than others depedning on skill and body training.

"starting" Marine can carry 1,350 kg, lift 2,700 kg, and push 5,400 kg."

Deathwatch RPG, Page 208

This mean Naked they can Fresh from surgery lift 3 tons and push 6 tons.

Add in 20% for Power Armour.

Now a fresh Space Marine is in Power armour is lifting 3 3/4 tons and push7 1/4 Tons

Now we take a Condition and Train Vetren Marine like Abbadon Here...

No Caption Provided

As seen Loken (a Captain himself but younger than Abbaddon and less Strength Condition) is easily knocked away. Easily showing Abbadon more than likely half more strong. Probably 10+ range.

Anyway its confirmed 5-6+ Toner on facts and maybe 10+ Toner base on assumption.

I would say Master Chief base of facts is as strong as 2-3+ Tons and 10+ base on Assumption as well.

Master Chief holds back, and still easily neutralizes Marines. This was before John knew his armor's capabilities.

Displaying how everything is slow to him with his enhanced senses

Defeating a high ranked Elite in close combat and with his armor shields recharging

Slaps missile out of his way, gets caught by another explosion head on, yet runs half a kilometer in 17 seconds with a torn Achilles tendon.

Defeating a squad of Jackals easily in hand-to-hand combat

Displays his ability to snipe easily and takes down more Jackals in close combat (he literally breaks their energy shields)

After battle fatigue, John still manages to defeat a Brute

As you can see, Master Chief can easily fight in close ranged combat.

Also, Master Chief can easily lift 10 tons, if not more.

I think alot of those feats show just what a hard time Chief has in Close Combat. My Space Marine showings show quick wins and easy Victories in CC.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8

As seen from the best of a whole Planet Raclaw was singled out. He showed great skill as a mere teenager. (All Space Marines must be in their teens for any hope of the Gene-seed taking root.)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Raclaw fresh with his Organ Implants and in serious pain battles a possible recruit gone wrong. This Beast is Marine itself in stats with Berserk fury.

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Raclaw in his first battle. They face Orks. What makes this great is he fight the toughest Orks in the galaxy, the Nobz, to save a fellow Marine. Such skill and prestige in his first battle.

Heck he is killing Nobz here.

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As seen Orks are Half Fungus and Half Beast that get Hulk Stronger thru Damage and years of battles. The more they fight the stronger they become. Nobz are with no armor or enhancements are physically a match for Space Marines.

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Here Raclaw chops thru hordes of Cultist and monologues his training.

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Raclaw as a novice makes his way to a Chaos Champ, a warrior of thousands of years and added gifts of chaos, and slays him with the meekest gear of Scout Armour, Chain Sword, and Bolt Pistol.

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Chaos Champs are some of the most feared. This one is a Nurgle Champ meaning he is more durable than standard Marines!

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Gerhart leads the attack on Chaos Forces of this planet. He not only fights cultist but Chaos Marines themselves! He even uncovers what plan the enemy had for that world.

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Finaly Gerhart plans the final attack to waste the Enemy. What makes this a big deal is the enemy Gerhart fights is non other than the infamous Thousand Sons!

All in close combat! Easy Combat. You showed me struggling with a single Brute, Elite, ect...

My Showings are of Chaos Champs, Nobs (who are 5+ toners that are extremly hard to kill), Daemons, ect.

The Last 2 are power Psykers / Sorcerors. The Thousand Sons.

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Thousand Sons are the most powerful Psykers/Magic Users in the galaxy with automaton armour called Rhubic Marines that back them up.

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Sergeant Learchus and his Ultras are swamped in CC by a Ork Horde.

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Sergeant Learchus vs Ork Warboss (the biggest, smartest, strongest Ork) in Mega Armour (Equivalent to Terminator Armor) and Learchus is not even a Captain just a Sergeant.

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Chaplain and Marines vs a Horde of Nobz in Close Combat!

I posted enough here to show CC is dominated by the average Veteran Marine.

1980's? Wow that's impressive. Halo was only in development since the 1990's ongoing. They may have had concept ideas in the 1980's but nothing developed yet (other than the initial RTS Halo game which was soon scratched out and abandoned).

As for Titus tanking a Warp Explosion, Master Chief has gone through countless missions and fought enemies in space, in slip-space travel. He's also survived in the vacuums of space and fallen/taken damage faster than supersonic speeds (as displayed in Cole Protocol).

And that's not a shield. That's actually just a piece of rubble from the ship that's he's carrying. And in no way is he holding it for the heat (if he is that's an artist mistake), because in Halo 3, he falls without the shield and his Liquid Gel layer alone could tank that atmospheric re-entry, let alone his shields/armor.

I'll post the video again since I couldn't the last post.

There are actually two things I want to point out.

From 0:00 - 0:53 Cortana explains how Master Chief also has extreme luck in circumstances where even his abilities aren't enough to survive (such as his ship being sucked into a black hole). This isn't just PIS though. This was done to show John to also be a metaphor or Humanity's struggle. As a result, Master Chief has the powers to rival, if not defeat a Space Marine, plus extra luck to occupy him.

From 1:34 - 1:50 a Marine states that Chief's Liquid Gel layer absorbed most, if not all of the impact from his orbital/atmospheric re-entry, so swords and plasma shouldn't to too much damage to his gel layer, meaning his armor is even more durable.

Luck is all good but well does that hold against the will of the God Emperor and all of Humanity as well?

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They are more flexible because they are titanium bodysuit, but they are in no way significantly weaker than the titanium plates. In space pressure effects every part of the body, so if the bodysuit was weaker, it would have torn or even broken, but it didn't.

And as I stated above, orbital re-entry didn't even destroy his liquid gel layer that was beneath his Titanium armor plates and his Titanium bodysuit.

Another note is that the gel layers and internal systems literally adapt to extreme temperatures, high velocity/g-forces, and huge amounts of PSI, so damaging it is nearly impossible. Well, except for Forerunner weaponry.

Im going to say a few things.

1) If the Flexible part is as strong as the plates then why have the plates and not all flexible?

2) In the Pages you posted for CC I saw alot of Damage taking and Shield shattering from weapons and H2H attacks that are way below what the Marine is packing.

3) Chain Swords have Cut thru Terminator Armour.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Index Astartes

Egil racked the slide on his bolter as the ground shook under a thunderous impact. The deep, rumbling crash sounded again, like an angry god's footsteps and...emerging from the smoke, like a vast beast from the sagas, a Night Gaunt Titan towered above them.

...

The gigantic war machine's foot smashed aside buildings in its path and Egil realised with sick horror exactly where it would stamp down.

...

He landed badly and cursed as he fell to the rubble, looking back to see Kaarlson (the one wearing the Terminator) slowly lumbering through the ruins. He (Egil) screamed his name as the mass of the Titan's foot smashed through the building and crashed down upon the Wolf Guard Terminator.

...

Egil looked over towards the flattened building and watched with astonishment as the rubble began to shift and heave. Massive chunks of plascrete and steel were pushed aside as Kaarlson pulled himself free from the debris. His Terminator armour had been gashed open in a dozen different places and his blood was splashed crimson against its grey but he was alive.

As seen Termie Armour is incredible and can withstand 100+ ton of Titan stepping on it.

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So here we are seeing a Chain Blade capable of penetrating it. MC Armor is not going to easily tank it in the soft softer spots where it flexes.

How about the Gravemind?

A huge parasitic alien that created a huge virus/infection that spread across the galaxy. It's pretty much made up of biomass, and is almost impossible to kill. It even has millions of zombie-like minions that are actually intelligent enough to wield weapons.

But guess what? Master Chief kept it at bay for periods of time, and fought through hundreds of armies of Flood (he's also immune to their infections). The Gravemind is easily more advanced than the other enemies you posted, since this one could simply infect them. The thing's just too large and is a galactic-level threat (universal if not for the Halo rings stopping their progress for a couple thousand years by eradicating all food sources for them). It also has all the memories of the previous infected it has gone through, so it has over thousands of years of knowledge and experience.

Oh yeah, and The Didact.

Sure, he didn't beat him, but he didn't die either (thanks to Librarian's upgrades). However, with the help of Cortana, he did kill (or BFR) the Didact using none other than the Pulse Grenade I have in my arsenal. Yeah. The grenade's that powerful.

Gravemind wasnt impressive at all. Space Wolves kill Krakens bigger than him.

The Flood would get decimated by the Orks constant Healing Factor and ability to adapt. Same with Constant Adapting Tyranids that have wiped out their galaxy. Flood fail to get thru ours!

The Didact is pretty tough but I think Mammon would match him easy enough for sure.

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This guy has single Handily summon Daemons to wreck worlds and bested many planets. Didact couldn't even take a Inferior Earth out.

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Yet as a Daemon Prince of World Power Titus the lone Marine kicks his a$$.

Heck Gabriel Angelos beaten Daemon Princes with a swing!

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Space Marines done more and better IMO.

Above I have stated my own arsenal, including the Pulse Grenade who took out a planet-buster, and a huge cannon that could instantaneously reduce the toughest foes to ashes without having to even dent or penetrate armor. Further examples include :

I found something else from Halo that is similar to Warhammer 40k.

This weapon is also a pistol and fires highly concentrated Forerunner/Promethean bolts, that when fired enough times, can completely dissolve organic matter. However, if you charge it at close range, it instantly reduces the enemy to ashes, regardless of armor and all (displayed to easily kill SPARTAN IV's in Multiplayer).

Plasma does reach the heat of a small sun, but John isn't exactly alienated when it comes to Plasma...get it? Alienated? Because he faces aliens? Hehehehehe...

Moving on, John has tanked atmospheric re-entry, slipspace travel and various enemy encounters in it, Covenant Plasma-fire that could also rival the heats of various stars (the shots have produced holes through entire UNSC Frigates) Forerunner weaponry that works on a molecular level, and attempts of "composing" by The Didact. I'm sure at the state he is now, he could possibly survive small sun temperatures.

Oh, and before I forget I was re-reading some of my Halo novels, and I found out that Master Chief actually has active camouflage built-into his MJOLNIR armor (it just isn't used much, especially in the games where they make you pick it up. I knew SPARTAN III's in the novels had built-in active camouflage though).

From Fall of Reach pg. 209

Crossing through these would be more difficult than the jungle. They donned camouflage cloaks that masked their thermal signatures and crawled through the muck on their stomachs.

That's another advantage of the MJOLNIR armor.

again the Weapons are powerful but I dont see them getting thru the Storm Shield that never burns out and has more power than a Iron Halo. Storm shields are design to tank Thunder Hammers.

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As seen Thunder Hammers are way more Destructive than any weapon on MC and the Strom Shield will tank it all.

Also I highly doubt Thermal will target a Space Marine in Power Armour.

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As seen Space Marines Armour and Skill have Stealth thru Armies on alert and Psychic/Spirit sensing Daemons!

So Spartan Armour is not the only thing with cool benefits ;)

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#17 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek:

Ah I see. Well I have some feats too.

From The Fall of Reach

“Yes. The trainers in those exoskeletons can run at thirty-two KPH, lift two tons, and have a thirty millimetermini gun mounted on self-targeting armatures—stun rounds, of course. They’re also equippedwith the latest motion sensors and IR scopes. And needless to say, their armor is impervious to standardlight weapons. It would take two or three platoons of conventional Marines to take that bunker.”

Those aren't even the SPARTANS. Those were the trainers in the bulky exoskeletons the soldiers used to help train the newly augmented SPARTAN II's. Now, for Master Chief himself :

From The Fall of Reach.

“Your Spartans can run at bursts of up to fifty-five KPH,” he explained. “Kelly can run a little faster, Ithink. They will only get quicker as they adjust to the ‘alterations’ we’ve made to their bodies. They canlift three times their body weight—which, I might add, is almost double the norm due to their increasedmuscle density. And they can virtually see in the dark.”

Here it states clearly that right after their augmentations at maybe 14 or so years of age, that they can run at 55 kilometers per hour, and it will only increase to the "alterations" they made to their bodies. Note that this is before they donned their armor, and before John got his Librarian upgrade. Now, after they don their armor their statistics are boosted up to 5x, so their running speed would be 275 kilometers per hour, plus the fact that they will improve over time.

I think its great to see some kind of numbers attach to MC stats. The problem in this is determining just how much they had improve. There is no numbers or statements to really reflect.

I on the other hand have many many feats and stats of Space Marine strength without Power Armour. With Power Armour its a 20% Increase.

Space Marines are also faster and stronger than others depedning on skill and body training.

"starting" Marine can carry 1,350 kg, lift 2,700 kg, and push 5,400 kg."

Deathwatch RPG, Page 208

This mean Naked they can Fresh from surgery lift 3 tons and push 6 tons.

Add in 20% for Power Armour.

Now a fresh Space Marine is in Power armour is lifting 3 3/4 tons and push7 1/4 Tons

Well I said that they would improve over time because it was stated in the books, and just in case something was exactly 275 kilometers per hour fast, it wouldn't mean Master Chief would be defeated there because he would still be faster, albeit an undefined level.

Master Chief could bench press maybe 3-5 tons without his armor, and in the novels it stated that MJOLNIR would make all statistics 5x more efficient.

Chief right out of the augmentations (and after he is adapted and use to it) can bench press a maximum of 5 or so tons, transferring that to kilograms is 4535 kg, so he could lift over 4000 kilograms. How much he can carry is relatively unknown, but the MJOLNIR armor itself is 1000 pounds, or 453.592 kilograms, and he can move easily in that.

As for MJOLNIR armor Chief could bench press 15 tons

Now we take a Condition and Train Vetren Marine like Abbadon Here...

No Caption Provided

As seen Loken (a Captain himself but younger than Abbaddon and less Strength Condition) is easily knocked away. Easily showing Abbadon more than likely half more strong. Probably 10+ range.

Anyway its confirmed 5-6+ Toner on facts and maybe 10+ Toner base on assumption.

I would say Master Chief base of facts is as strong as 2-3+ Tons and 10+ base on Assumption as well.

Master Chief is also in the 10 + ton range, and maximum 15 + based on assumption based on the increase in experience. However, it is undefined how much Librarian's upgrade effected him, but it's possible it's incredibly high since he was able to tank molecular breakdown.

Like above, it is also confirmed that Chief is in the 10 ton + range and possibly 15 ton +

Heck, he even one-shotted an Elite.

Master Chief holds back, and still easily neutralizes Marines. This was before John knew his armor's capabilities.

Displaying how everything is slow to him with his enhanced senses

Defeating a high ranked Elite in close combat and with his armor shields recharging

Slaps missile out of his way, gets caught by another explosion head on, yet runs half a kilometer in 17 seconds with a torn Achilles tendon.

Defeating a squad of Jackals easily in hand-to-hand combat

Displays his ability to snipe easily and takes down more Jackals in close combat (he literally breaks their energy shields)

After battle fatigue, John still manages to defeat a Brute

As you can see, Master Chief can easily fight in close ranged combat.

Also, Master Chief can easily lift 10 tons, if not more.

I think alot of those feats show just what a hard time Chief has in Close Combat. My Space Marine showings show quick wins and easy Victories in CC.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8

As seen from the best of a whole Planet Raclaw was singled out. He showed great skill as a mere teenager. (All Space Marines must be in their teens for any hope of the Gene-seed taking root.)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Raclaw fresh with his Organ Implants and in serious pain battles a possible recruit gone wrong. This Beast is Marine itself in stats with Berserk fury.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Raclaw in his first battle. They face Orks. What makes this great is he fight the toughest Orks in the galaxy, the Nobz, to save a fellow Marine. Such skill and prestige in his first battle.

Most of them were when he was inexperienced compared to now and had weaker armor.

This is an example of Chief in his 20's.

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He still managed to defeat a Hunter (even easily tanking one of its hits that would easily slice Marines in half) by himself, where in the novels it sometimes took a couple SPARTANS to take down 2 Hunters.

Also, as you can see from that video that John can expertly maneuver around large foes (Space Marines are probably around the same size as Hunters). As a matter of fact, let's compare Hunters and Space Marines.

Weight

Space Marine - 2,000 + pounds

Hunter - 5,000 pounds

Height

Space Marine - 7-9 ft. tall

Hunter - 10.5 ft. tall

Strength

Space Marine - 15 tons +

Hunter - 20 tons +

Similarities

  • Have Plasma Guns that have the power close to a sun
  • Have huge shields that protect them from most damage
  • Have armor that covers nearly every part of their body

As you can see Hunters are superior to Space Marines in basic statistics, and Master Chief takes them out all the time without much trouble, despite being weaker and less experienced than he is in the events of Halo 4, so Space Marines shouldn't be too much trouble either. However, they have some extra perks that do set them apart from Hunters, but keep in mind that these Hunters are not unintelligent. They actually have their own language by vibrating their worm-like strings in special frequencies that only other Hunters can hear. They also have religons, complex society, and are the physically strongest and toughest in the Covenant (easily besting Elites and Brutes alike).

Heck he is killing Nobz here.

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As seen Orks are Half Fungus and Half Beast that get Hulk Stronger thru Damage and years of battles. The more they fight the stronger they become. Nobz are with no armor or enhancements are physically a match for Space Marines.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Here Raclaw chops thru hordes of Cultist and monologues his training.

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Raclaw as a novice makes his way to a Chaos Champ, a warrior of thousands of years and added gifts of chaos, and slays him with the meekest gear of Scout Armour, Chain Sword, and Bolt Pistol.

No Caption Provided

Master Chief has defeated fungus-like enemies as well. These are called the Flood, and they are parasitic minions of the Gravemind. At first they are small but once they even touch any part of organic matter they can infect the host, and control all their actions. They also absorb their memories, which also applies for the Gravemind. They are practically biomass, so most bullets go right past them and don't even harm them.

Despite how difficult these zombie-like beings are to kill, he still engages them in hand-to-hand combat and dispatches all of them (which is hundreds, if not thousands of Flood minions).

Sniping and dodging tons of gunfire with Covenant Carbine

Stealthily plants Plasma Grenade on Brute (which he can do on Space Marine)

Oooh. That must hurt! Can't find the next scene but the Brute goes bye-bye. Keep in mind that that's only a Plasma Pistol, which isn't as advanced as the Forerunner Plasma Grenade. This grenade burns the internal liquids of the victim, but Chief's tanked worse.

Chaos Champs are some of the most feared. This one is a Nurgle Champ meaning he is more durable than standard Marines!

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Gerhart leads the attack on Chaos Forces of this planet. He not only fights cultist but Chaos Marines themselves! He even uncovers what plan the enemy had for that world.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10Gallery image 11

Finaly Gerhart plans the final attack to waste the Enemy. What makes this a big deal is the enemy Gerhart fights is non other than the infamous Thousand Sons!

All in close combat! Easy Combat. You showed me struggling with a single Brute, Elite, ect...

My Showings are of Chaos Champs, Nobs (who are 5+ toners that are extremly hard to kill), Daemons, ect.

The Last 2 are power Psykers / Sorcerors. The Thousand Sons.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Thousand Sons are the most powerful Psykers/Magic Users in the galaxy with automaton armour called Rhubic Marines that back them up.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Sergeant Learchus and his Ultras are swamped in CC by a Ork Horde.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Sergeant Learchus vs Ork Warboss (the biggest, smartest, strongest Ork) in Mega Armour (Equivalent to Terminator Armor) and Learchus is not even a Captain just a Sergeant.

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Chaplain and Marines vs a Horde of Nobz in Close Combat!

I posted enough here to show CC is dominated by the average Veteran Marine.

I'm still confident that Master Chief can fair well even in close combat. Sure, his moves aren't as fancy or gruesome as Space Marines, but he gets the job done.

One of his main feats that would help him is his insane durability. He's also had extremely impressive strength feats too though.

Tanks Fully Charged Plasma Pistol Bolt

Tanks full-on Fuel Rod Cannon rocket launcher unscathed

Tanks another Fuel Rod Cannon blast

Breaks two Elite spines

With an older model of the MJOLNIR armor and a malfunctioning shield system, John still takes down a high ranking, in its prime Elite that was wielding an Energy Sword.

Some more feats :

From Fall of Reach

Faster than the human eye can see

A pair of [Spartans] practiced hand-to-hand combat. Captain Keyes could barely follow their motions. They were so fast, no hesitation. Strike and block and counter-strike - their movements were a continuous stream of rapid-fire blurs.

Perceives everything faster

His fist jabbed forward, cobra-quick, and struck. The speed bag moved, but slowly, like it was under water... far too slowly considering how hard he had hit it.

=========

1980's? Wow that's impressive. Halo was only in development since the 1990's ongoing. They may have had concept ideas in the 1980's but nothing developed yet (other than the initial RTS Halo game which was soon scratched out and abandoned).

As for Titus tanking a Warp Explosion, Master Chief has gone through countless missions and fought enemies in space, in slip-space travel. He's also survived in the vacuums of space and fallen/taken damage faster than supersonic speeds (as displayed in Cole Protocol).

And that's not a shield. That's actually just a piece of rubble from the ship that's he's carrying. And in no way is he holding it for the heat (if he is that's an artist mistake), because in Halo 3, he falls without the shield and his Liquid Gel layer alone could tank that atmospheric re-entry, let alone his shields/armor.

I'll post the video again since I couldn't the last post.

There are actually two things I want to point out.

From 0:00 - 0:53 Cortana explains how Master Chief also has extreme luck in circumstances where even his abilities aren't enough to survive (such as his ship being sucked into a black hole). This isn't just PIS though. This was done to show John to also be a metaphor or Humanity's struggle. As a result, Master Chief has the powers to rival, if not defeat a Space Marine, plus extra luck to occupy him.

From 1:34 - 1:50 a Marine states that Chief's Liquid Gel layer absorbed most, if not all of the impact from his orbital/atmospheric re-entry, so swords and plasma shouldn't to too much damage to his gel layer, meaning his armor is even more durable.

Luck is all good but well does that hold against the will of the God Emperor and all of Humanity as well?

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Master Chief fought against an entire ship of high-ranking Covenant by himself with limited weaponry and disarmed a huge bomb on it with less than 1 second to spare.

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He's the last SPARTAN II as a result of numerous wars against the Covenant, and probably can't die now unless he wants to since Librarian made him pretty much immune to damage to a molecular level.

They are more flexible because they are titanium bodysuit, but they are in no way significantly weaker than the titanium plates. In space pressure effects every part of the body, so if the bodysuit was weaker, it would have torn or even broken, but it didn't.

And as I stated above, orbital re-entry didn't even destroy his liquid gel layer that was beneath his Titanium armor plates and his Titanium bodysuit.

Another note is that the gel layers and internal systems literally adapt to extreme temperatures, high velocity/g-forces, and huge amounts of PSI, so damaging it is nearly impossible. Well, except for Forerunner weaponry.

Im going to say a few things.

1) If the Flexible part is as strong as the plates then why have the plates and not all flexible?

2) In the Pages you posted for CC I saw alot of Damage taking and Shield shattering from weapons and H2H attacks that are way below what the Marine is packing.

3) Chain Swords have Cut thru Terminator Armour.

Because the Titanium plates are more durable than the Titanium Bodysuit, just not enough for anything to harm the only Bodysuit, but not the Titanium plates. Plus even if the Titanium Bodysuit was weaker than the Titanium plates, the Gel Layer would absorb the shock/impact from the Chain Sword.

As for the damage taking and shield shattering, it only means his shields were taking damage and were depleting. However, that is only because his Power Pack battery wasn't fully charged (he was in battle for weeks, if not months), so his armor probably wasn't at its peak potential. Also, he was facing numerous foes before that encounter, so his shields hadn't recharged yet. John doesn't have this problem anymore though since his armor and his actual human evolution has been upgraded since. Nonetheless his armor will be fully charged in the beginning of the battle (if he even requires Power Batteries anymore).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Index Astartes

Egil racked the slide on his bolter as the ground shook under a thunderous impact. The deep, rumbling crash sounded again, like an angry god's footsteps and...emerging from the smoke, like a vast beast from the sagas, a Night Gaunt Titan towered above them.

...

The gigantic war machine's foot smashed aside buildings in its path and Egil realised with sick horror exactly where it would stamp down.

...

He landed badly and cursed as he fell to the rubble, looking back to see Kaarlson (the one wearing the Terminator) slowly lumbering through the ruins. He (Egil) screamed his name as the mass of the Titan's foot smashed through the building and crashed down upon the Wolf Guard Terminator.

...

Egil looked over towards the flattened building and watched with astonishment as the rubble began to shift and heave. Massive chunks of plascrete and steel were pushed aside as Kaarlson pulled himself free from the debris. His Terminator armour had been gashed open in a dozen different places and his blood was splashed crimson against its grey but he was alive.

As seen Termie Armour is incredible and can withstand 100+ ton of Titan stepping on it.

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So here we are seeing a Chain Blade capable of penetrating it. MC Armor is not going to easily tank it in the soft softer spots where it flexes.

Well Master Chief's armor has tanked Gravity Hammer shots.

Remember this weapon?

Technically, this weapon can have near infinite mass exerted upon an enemy because it is manipulating gravity. A single blow is suppose to automatically kill its victim because it would use such great forces of gravity that almost nothing would survive.

Almost.

While this concept works in the games almost 100%, and sometimes in the novels where it is rarely used, SPARTAN armor has shown to be able to take a few glancing blows, and survive with only their shields down. Most of the time they don't even get hit by the Gravity Hammer though, because they're so agile.

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Skip to 2:10

Also his one single kick was strong enough to KO that Brute. Pretty strong if you ask me.

How about the Gravemind?

A huge parasitic alien that created a huge virus/infection that spread across the galaxy. It's pretty much made up of biomass, and is almost impossible to kill. It even has millions of zombie-like minions that are actually intelligent enough to wield weapons.

But guess what? Master Chief kept it at bay for periods of time, and fought through hundreds of armies of Flood (he's also immune to their infections). The Gravemind is easily more advanced than the other enemies you posted, since this one could simply infect them. The thing's just too large and is a galactic-level threat (universal if not for the Halo rings stopping their progress for a couple thousand years by eradicating all food sources for them). It also has all the memories of the previous infected it has gone through, so it has over thousands of years of knowledge and experience.

Oh yeah, and The Didact.

Sure, he didn't beat him, but he didn't die either (thanks to Librarian's upgrades). However, with the help of Cortana, he did kill (or BFR) the Didact using none other than the Pulse Grenade I have in my arsenal. Yeah. The grenade's that powerful.

Gravemind wasnt impressive at all. Space Wolves kill Krakens bigger than him.

The Flood would get decimated by the Orks constant Healing Factor and ability to adapt. Same with Constant Adapting Tyranids that have wiped out their galaxy. Flood fail to get thru ours!

The Didact is pretty tough but I think Mammon would match him easy enough for sure.

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This guy has single Handily summon Daemons to wreck worlds and bested many planets. Didact couldn't even take a Inferior Earth out.

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Yet as a Daemon Prince of World Power Titus the lone Marine kicks his a$$.

Heck Gabriel Angelos beaten Daemon Princes with a swing!

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Space Marines done more and better IMO.

What? Gravemind not impressive? But Didact is? You do know the Gravemind pretty much wiped out the entire Forerunner race right? The Forerunners exhausted every single strategy they could, but they had no way of killing off the Flood. The only way to neutralize the Flood and the Gravemind (who controlled the Flood) was to kill off all of its food sources, which was everything in the entire galaxy. So they created the Halo Rings to eradicate pretty much everything but the Gravemind and his Flood since they were still too strong for the Halo Rings. So yeah, the Gravemind is a galaxy-level threat.

Also The Didact wasn't trying to destroy the Earth, just try to turn the entire planet into Prometheans. He could have destroyed the planet easier, with less caution then converting.

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He's also had over thousands of years of intelligence, and can infect pretty much anything.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Gravemind

Above I have stated my own arsenal, including the Pulse Grenade who took out a planet-buster, and a huge cannon that could instantaneously reduce the toughest foes to ashes without having to even dent or penetrate armor. Further examples include :

I found something else from Halo that is similar to Warhammer 40k.

This weapon is also a pistol and fires highly concentrated Forerunner/Promethean bolts, that when fired enough times, can completely dissolve organic matter. However, if you charge it at close range, it instantly reduces the enemy to ashes, regardless of armor and all (displayed to easily kill SPARTAN IV's in Multiplayer).

Plasma does reach the heat of a small sun, but John isn't exactly alienated when it comes to Plasma...get it? Alienated? Because he faces aliens? Hehehehehe...

Moving on, John has tanked atmospheric re-entry, slipspace travel and various enemy encounters in it, Covenant Plasma-fire that could also rival the heats of various stars (the shots have produced holes through entire UNSC Frigates) Forerunner weaponry that works on a molecular level, and attempts of "composing" by The Didact. I'm sure at the state he is now, he could possibly survive small sun temperatures.

Oh, and before I forget I was re-reading some of my Halo novels, and I found out that Master Chief actually has active camouflage built-into his MJOLNIR armor (it just isn't used much, especially in the games where they make you pick it up. I knew SPARTAN III's in the novels had built-in active camouflage though).

From Fall of Reach pg. 209

Crossing through these would be more difficult than the jungle. They donned camouflage cloaks that masked their thermal signatures and crawled through the muck on their stomachs.

That's another advantage of the MJOLNIR armor.

again the Weapons are powerful but I dont see them getting thru the Storm Shield that never burns out and has more power than a Iron Halo. Storm shields are design to tank Thunder Hammers.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

As seen Thunder Hammers are way more Destructive than any weapon on MC and the Strom Shield will tank it all.

Also I highly doubt Thermal will target a Space Marine in Power Armour.

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As seen Space Marines Armour and Skill have Stealth thru Armies on alert and Psychic/Spirit sensing Daemons!

So Spartan Armour is not the only thing with cool benefits ;)

Well Master Chief's armor has tanked huge amounts of PSI from the Gravity Hammer, which is arguably more destructive, if not equally as destructive as the Thunder Hammer. Also those weapons are more powerful than you think. They are pretty much automatic kill weapons. They could kill even Hulk since they completely dissolve all of the enemies particles.

And is there any proof that the thermal vision won't penetrate the armor? Because they have gone through Covenant shields before.

On top of special vision and active camo, Chief also has jetpacks in the Expanded Universe, and now even in the Video Game Universe. And it works in space too!

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Skip to 0:45 for Jetpack action. Turns out the Jetpack was built into his armor already! This would give John a huge tactical advantage as he can go aerial and use his Incineration Cannon and Pulse Grenades that are instant kills

Nonetheless, I win because you couldn't counter my alienated pun.

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#18 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Alright its getting to long to copy and paste so I will cut to the chase.

1) I notice you keep mentioning the Molecular disintegration. I play Halo 4 too and in it it doesn't specify if Master Chief was Superman Durable now or simply immune to Molecule Manipulation. You can be Supes tough and Molecule Manipulation will crush you. That suggest there is simply a Molecule Manipulation immunity and not a show of Durability.

2) Thunder Hammer showings are way better feat wise than Brute Hammer as the Thunder Hammer generates a Energy Field that Disrupts Molecules and adds in the Crater making Weighted Blasts.

Point is Storm Shield tanks those easy.

3) Gravmind was powerful thru the flood minions not as much himself. A Nurgle Greater Deamon would have wrecked Gravmind any day. Great Unclean ones have cracked planets.

Point is Flood is nothing compared to a Ork WAAAGH or Hive Fleet. That Space Marines commonly fight.

4) That Hunter may be stat wise better but in no way Geared better or as skilled as the Adeptus Astartes.

5) You have Energy shields that shown to be drain by bullets and Elite kicks. I have a Storm Shield that doesn't break. Power Armour is comparable.

6) in the scans from the books Plasma have one shotted the shields of MC. My Plasma is way more powerful and can be charged as well. So those Shields and Armour can be useless vs that. Also the Skill and precision of Close Combat is greater.

Summary

Space Marine is around 5-10 Tons.

Space Marine Gear in this allow Invulnerable Hand Shield and as durable Power Armour.

Space Marine Speed is comparable if not faster.

Space Marine Skill far exceed the experience and training of Master Chief. Space Marines train in a Galaxy of forms and they have battle more types of Aliens and Demons than MC. Space Marines have typicaly over 700 years of combat experience in mas wars on a larger scale.

At Range its anyones game but in close combat the Space Marine dominates.

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Videos says it all!

Im ready for votes :)

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#19 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll do my summary tomorrow and then we can let them vote.

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#20 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: Alright its getting to long to copy and paste so I will cut to the chase.

1) I notice you keep mentioning the Molecular disintegration. I play Halo 4 too and in it it doesn't specify if Master Chief was Superman Durable now or simply immune to Molecule Manipulation. You can be Supes tough and Molecule Manipulation will crush you. That suggest there is simply a Molecule Manipulation immunity and not a show of Durability.

2) Thunder Hammer showings are way better feat wise than Brute Hammer as the Thunder Hammer generates a Energy Field that Disrupts Molecules and adds in the Crater making Weighted Blasts.

Point is Storm Shield tanks those easy.

3) Gravmind was powerful thru the flood minions not as much himself. A Nurgle Greater Deamon would have wrecked Gravmind any day. Great Unclean ones have cracked planets.

Point is Flood is nothing compared to a Ork WAAAGH or Hive Fleet. That Space Marines commonly fight.

4) That Hunter may be stat wise better but in no way Geared better or as skilled as the Adeptus Astartes.

5) You have Energy shields that shown to be drain by bullets and Elite kicks. I have a Storm Shield that doesn't break. Power Armour is comparable.

6) in the scans from the books Plasma have one shotted the shields of MC. My Plasma is way more powerful and can be charged as well. So those Shields and Armour can be useless vs that. Also the Skill and precision of Close Combat is greater.

He isn't Superman durable per say, but he is extremely more durable now since not even molecular manipulation can kill (The Didact tried to kill him by dissolving his particles but he failed). However, he completely dissolved all the other scientists.

As for the Gravity Hammer, I was only using it for an example that Master Chief can withstand a huge amount of PSI (even PSI that is designed to instantly kill someone). And even if the Thunder Hammer does disrupt molecules, Chief is already immune to that thanks to the Composer. And the Forerunner weapons are a lot more advanced in regards to just disrupting molecules, it literally destroys them, so if the Storm Shield is made up of particles, molecules, atoms, etc, it could be destroyed.

Graveminds have done more than just "crack planets". They have infested the entire galaxy. That's right. The entire galaxy. If the Forerunners hadn't sacrificed themselves and stopped them, they would have spread across the universe. There's practically no way to kill the Gravemind at all.

The Hunter was also another example of Chief, without as good armor and upgrades, can beat another alien with immensely higher statistics. Keep in mind that Chief battled more than one of these Hunters and still won.

The Energy Shields and general durability has been beefed up a lot since then, so bullets won't hurt Chief anymore (Multiplayer doesn't count because they are SPARTAN IV's). Only incredibly high amounts of plasma and Forerunner weapons will hurt John now.

Referring to the above, Chief's defenses have beefed up and he doesn't even have the same MJOLNIR armor he had in that encounter. Also Plasma Weapons in Halo can be charged too if you didn't know. Also the Plasma Pistol in Halo is designed to not only fry entire beings and their internal liquids, but to disrupt armor and other devices.

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Summary

Master Chief's weapons should give him an edge in the battle because they completely destroy molecules, not just disrupt them.

Although Space Marines may be extremely vicious in close combat, Chief is no slack when it comes to overpowering people with advantages to him, such as defeating numerous Hunters (who have better stats than Space Marines) even when they have significant superior stats. He also is insanely durable after the events of Halo 4.

Master Chief's extra abilities with MJOLNIR will be a good tactical advantage (cloaking, radar, jetpacks, etc.)

John has lots of luck that will help him even in tight situations, if anything does go wrong he'll live.

Master Chief has kept a giant thousand year old galaxy-infecting parasite at bay and a killed a planet-buster Forerunner with a single pulse grenade in 40 years of life. That's extremely impressive.

Oh yeah, and Chief at the age of 14 without MJOLNIR armor defeated an exo-suit similar to this :

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He's also equal, if not better than the Arbiter in terms of close quarters combat.

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Alright voting can start now.

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#21 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

Shout Outs!

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#22 Posted by laflux (24720 posts) - - Show Bio

had this for me. It was a really good debate from YNCG, but I feel CadenceV2 had a bit more about his argument.

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#23 Posted by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't have to take ages to make my vote this time as I have been following this since it began! It was a great debate guys. You both did admirably. However my vote goes to CadenceV2.

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#24 Posted by 8bitGangsta (592 posts) - - Show Bio

I was going to vote for cadence but the hunter stats surprised me a lot and swayed my vote. YFNCG has my vote. GJ 2 both

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#25 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

CadenceV2 ///2-1/// YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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#26 Posted by GhostofOnyx (675 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm voting for chief

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#27 Posted by Sideslash (6154 posts) - - Show Bio

Going for YNCG.

Great debate by both participants though, well done.

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#28 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

CadenceV2 ///2-3/// YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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#29 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: @Strider92: Glad to hear you guys followed this :) How ya liking the SM Scans Strider?

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#30 Edited by MonsterStomp (36557 posts) - - Show Bio

Fantastic debate. Have to go for YNCG. EDIT: Not biased either lol.

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#31 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

CadenceV2 ///2 - 4/// YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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#32 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

am I qualified to vote or do I have to be called

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#33 Posted by Obtrusive (1814 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there a masterchief of the War hammer universe? Or are they just impressive as a collective mostly? I really don't know anything about it.

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#34 Posted by Fungy (1 posts) - - Show Bio

@Obtrusive: Well, they do impress as a collective. But as Cadence have been saying, essentially every Space Marine veteran could in my opinion take out Master Chief fairly easily. Simply on the back of centuries of combat, and superhuman strenght, and powerful weaponry. However the warhammer 40k "universe" is a lot bigger than the Halo universe. And having one person like master chief would make him fairly unimportant simply because of the wast areas the setting consists of. So the forces clashing together happens in a much larger scale(the Imperium of Man is supposed to have 500+ trillion soldiers, regular soldiers not space marines).

But you do have characters which would have made the comparison plain silly. Because the Space Marines in the Warhammer 40k setting are essentially a "lesser" version of the Primarch of each of the 20 first founding chapters. For example the Space Wolf space marines are infused with the genes of their Primarch Leman Russ, to get some of his power. And same with the Ultramarines and their Primarch Roboute Guilliman. And the Primarchs are based on the genetics of the God Emperor. The Primarchs are to Space Marines what the Spartan soldiers in Halo are to the regular soldiers.

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#35 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fungy said:

@Obtrusive: Well, they do impress as a collective. But as Cadence have been saying, essentially every Space Marine veteran could in my opinion take out Master Chief fairly easily. Simply on the back of centuries of combat, and superhuman strenght, and powerful weaponry. However the warhammer 40k "universe" is a lot bigger than the Halo universe. And having one person like master chief would make him fairly unimportant simply because of the wast areas the setting consists of. So the forces clashing together happens in a much larger scale(the Imperium of Man is supposed to have 500+ trillion soldiers, regular soldiers not space marines).

But you do have characters which would have made the comparison plain silly. Because the Space Marines in the Warhammer 40k setting are essentially a "lesser" version of the Primarch of each of the 20 first founding chapters. For example the Space Wolf space marines are infused with the genes of their Primarch Leman Russ, to get some of his power. And same with the Ultramarines and their Primarch Roboute Guilliman. And the Primarchs are based on the genetics of the God Emperor. The Primarchs are to Space Marines what the Spartan soldiers in Halo are to the regular soldiers.

Nicely put.

@SirFizzWhizz: You and anyone else can vote. I just made call outs to those who would likely vote.

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#36 Posted by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@Obtrusive said:

Is there a masterchief of the War hammer universe? Or are they just impressive as a collective mostly? I really don't know anything about it.

Not really. Your Average Space Marine could take on MC. 40k thrives of having exceedingly powerful base troops. It's more a collective thing. Although you do have hero's they are far above MC and any of the 40k troops. Magnus for example slows time without even trying. Just by walking around.

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#37 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

CadenceV2 ///3 - 4/// YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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#38 Posted by SpideyPresence (1912 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm are we voting for the character or for the argument provided?

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#39 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

oh ok. I thought you could only vote if you were qualified and mentioned. In that case ill vote for Master Chief debated by yourneighborhoodcomicgeek

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#40 Posted by SpideyPresence (1912 posts) - - Show Bio

In any case, Cadence seemed to pack a little more in the argument although I do believe Master Chief would win the fight.

Anyways great debate by both gentlemen.

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#41 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

CadenceV2 ///4 - 5/// YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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#42 Posted by Strafe Prower (13013 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm giving this one to Cadence, good job to both parties!

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#43 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoooo! this was a good match.

CadenceV2 ///5- 5/// YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

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#44 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

So has voting stopped?

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#45 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: No. Its tied 5-5 and thats pretty epic.

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#46 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah that is pretty epic!

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#47 Posted by MonsterStomp (36557 posts) - - Show Bio

Both you peeps did amazing.

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#48 Posted by Pwok21 (2464 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting for Candence.

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#49 Posted by Obtrusive (1814 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fungy:Well i understand most of what you said. Ill just have to take your word for it. Sounds like space magic to me.

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#50 Edited by Silfarion (1 posts) - - Show Bio

All I have to say on this matter is

http://dagobah.net/flash/Space_Marines_vs_Spartans.swf

FOR THE EMPEROR!