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Posted by Gilateen (4325 posts) 8 months, 19 days ago

Poll: Yhwach vs Kaguya Otsutsuki (135 votes)

Yhwach 44%
Kaguya 47%
Stalemate 8%

•Chakra=Reiahsu

•Battle takes Place At the Shinobi war battlefield

•Win by death or K.O

Which Final villain will take it?

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#101 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1675 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom: gerard is also immortal (through the miracle) and yet he got absorbed

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#102 Edited by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@diydeath: that sounds similar to Aizen...

Eerily similar he was sealed because they couldn't kill him and you can remove limbs and he still wouldn't die.

Then again Aizen did say he took the hogyoku to overthrow the soul king too...

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#103 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1675 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen: if you're going to take naruto statements of planet busting as true then yes

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#104 Edited by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: Absorbed by whom? Was he absorbed forcefully or did he let himself be absorbed?

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#105 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: This is a wrap then.

Do you notice what I notice at the end of this??

Gerard Valkyrie (ジェラルド・ヴァルキリー, Jerarudo Varukirī) is a Quincy and a member of the Wandenreich's Sternritter with the designation "M" - The Miracle,[1] as well as one of Yhwach's Schutzstaffel (親衛隊 (シュッツシュタッフェル), Shuttsushutafferu; German for "Protective Echelon", Japanese for "Elite/Imperial Guards").[2][3] He is also the heart of the Soul King.[4]

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#106 Edited by Gilateen (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: Like I said yhwach has no way of killing kaguya, She can just Blow up the dimension their in or the planet

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#107 Posted by Gilateen (4325 posts) - - Show Bio
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#108 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1675 posts) - - Show Bio
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#109 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1675 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen: you showing clear and utter bias like that completely discredits you as it proves you only want naruto characters to win

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#110 Edited by Gilateen (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

@CodeVein: Yhwach hasn’t absorbed an immortal so stop making up stuff

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#111 Posted by Gilateen (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: if their both at full power then this is a fair fight. So stop complaining

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#112 Edited by diydeath (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom: On mobile so scans are impossible or I'd happily provide them.

When Ichigo and co 1st reach the SK he's missing his limbs, some of which are other characters or are stored in a character yet is still alive (dead SK=reality crumbles so he has to be alive still).

To my kniwledge the SK cannot regenerate his limbs but the SK is also 100% featless so really, who knows? Lol.

Abd FYI the SK's corpse was absorbed by Yhwach after Ichigo cut him down, there is nothing to suggest he can absorb a live immortal the way he did to the SK.

On the flip side, he was able to start absorbing Aizen while Aizen was alive with that black goo crap at the end of the series and Aizen is described as being almost impossible to kill, which is a form of immortality.

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#113 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen: actually yes I just looked it up.

Gerard was immortal with the Miracle and was whooping Kenpachi Toshiro etc no matter what damage they done to him he would recover.

Fight legit ended when Yhwach went bloop taking your powers m8 then he died.

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#114 Posted by Gilateen (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: explain why didn’t he absorb aizens immortality genius?

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#115 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@diydeath: He absorbs Gerard forcefully so yeah there is actual evidence he can now.

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#116 Edited by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen: the manga itself shows why lmao.

As he starts absorbing Aizen and Ichigo Uryu conveniently appeared and shot him with the plot arrow.

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#117 Posted by diydeath (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: That was different though, he took back the power he gave Gerard, he didn't absorb him in the same context that Kaguya might get absorbed via the absorbing Aizen feat.

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#118 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@diydeath: Gerard is called the heart of the soul king though.

It was forcefully too he didn't give it up he just took his power and killed him.

Nothing says he can't do that to Kaguya or absorb her with the black goo.

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#119 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

Uh actually Soul kings race is God.

Yhwach absorbed a legit god into himself.

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#120 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@diydeath: Also this is the bit you were talking about pointing to yes the Soul king was immortal.

Various parts of the Soul King are separate or have been separated from the main body for unknown reasons. These parts possibly by virtue of being parts of the Soul King or possibly by design have attained sentience and their own independent personalities and abilities.

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#121 Edited by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: "gerard is also immortal (through the miracle) and yet he got absorbed".

Gerard is a quincy and Yhwach controls his soul . This doesn't prove Yhwach can absorb random immortal characters.

This what it says on Bleach wiki: As an extension of his ability to distribute pieces of his soul to others, Yhwach can forcibly take the power of other Quincy. This process is fatal to its victims, particularly those who are already weak.[1]

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#122 Edited by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom: Doesn't matter Gerard is apart of the soul king who didn't outright just give up his power alongside the right hand he legit absorbed a god inside him.

Nothing at all is preventing Yhwach from absorbing Kaguya now.

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#123 Posted by HoelanTaicho (134 posts) - - Show Bio

Not only is yhwach more experienced as a fighter he also has WAY more hax kaguya can swap dimensions but that's pretty irrelevant.

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#124 Posted by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: Show me where Soul King is immortal in the sense of regenerating from any damage.

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#125 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom:

Literally friggin Gerard because he's the heart of the soul king lmao.

Then you have the main body and head and the two arms.

Yhwach has the left arm and the heart on his side.

That's your answer.

Otherwise show Aizen who was stated to be immortal regrowing limbs suddenly.

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#126 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio
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#127 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1675 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom: gerard is a special case because both him and pernida (left hand of the soul king) didn't get their powers from yhwach they were in place long before he existed

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#128 Edited by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

In Order.

The Right Hand of the Soul King - Mimihagi - Governs Stagnation

The Left Hand of the Soul King - Pernida Parnkgjas - Governs Evolution

The Heart of the Soul King - Gerard Valkyrie - Unknown

Pernida Parnkgjas (ペルニダ・パルンカジャス, Perunida Parunkajasu) is a Quincy and a member of the Wandenreich's Sternritter with the designation "C" - "The Compulsory", as well as one of Yhwach's Schutzstaffel (親衛隊 (シャトズスタフェル), Shatozusutaferu; German for "Protective Echelon", Japanese for "Elite/Imperial Guards"). It is also the left hand of the Soul King.

Regeneration: Pernida can regenerate its parts and any fingers it loses, intentionally or otherwise.

Reconstitution: Should its body be destroyed, Pernida can completely reform and reconstruct itself in a short period of time.

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#129 Edited by cooldude111 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: This is super reaching on your side. What makes you think 1) that Soul King is immortal in the sense of damage and not 2) it is Yhwach who makes it possible for them to regenerate through his soul control. The first statement has as much evidence as the other... It's a land of confusion and interpretation.

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#130 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldude111: Literally just posted why he is above you.

Nothing reaching about it when Gerard and the damn left hand is apart of the soul king.

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#131 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

Right then seeing how he Absorbed an immortal and all parts of said immortal Yhwach can absorb Kaguya.

Even more so since the immortal is a god.

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#133 Edited by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: I don't agree with your reaching, sorry. I don't believe that Yhwach can absorb random immortal characters in combat. Soul King is his father and immobile. If he managed to absorb Aizen right then, I would agree with you, but it didn't happen.

Still, Kaguya comfortably. Hell, even if Yhwach could absorb random immortals in combat, I would still give it to Kaguya due to her feats/stats.

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#134 Posted by diydeath (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom: Just to interject, nevermind the whole absorbtion bit, I also believe it's not really something that can be done in combat in the context of Yhwach absorbing the SK and the black goo is not particularily fast acting despite it probably having the feats to absorb an immortal (Aizen) do that's probably not a good argument.

But what does Kaguya have that can counter The Almighty?

How does she deal with power nullification and attacks from the future?

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#135 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom: That legit doesn't make any sense as he has a feat of absorbing a God.

Only the body and head was immobile the body parts where still running about.

Kaguya has legit nothing to put Yhwach down or get rid of Almighty while he has feats that highly suggest he can absorb her.

She's a goddess congratulations Soul king was a god she's very much susceptible to being Absorb she isn't a damn DBZ char who has disparing stats.

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#136 Posted by diydeath (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: Wasn't a combat feat which is the problem. I mean yeah, if Kaguya stood still and took it, he probably could but even in all the infinite futures Yhwach could choose, I doubt there's one where Kaguya is stupid enough to let that happen. Naruto is thr one with talk no jutsu...not Yhwach xD.

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#137 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

@diydeath: Pfft the glorious mustache distracts XD

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#138 Edited by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@diydeath: Why Kaguya doesn't lose: Kaguya has just superior on-panel durability feats, tanking one of the best attacks from Naruto and Sasuke in a casual way. She even survived DMS Kakashi's crazy Kamui spam. I don't see how Yhwach would hurt her. I haven't seen Destruction feats from him that would be any close to Naruto, Sasuke and DMS Kakashi at full power.

But what does Kaguya have that can counter The Almighty?

How does she deal with power nullification?

Juubi-tier/Rikudo characters have so much energy they can fight at full power for days with no rest and then even replenish that energy(ex. Rinnegan absorption, Natural Energy). Kaguya is even above that, the mother/progenitor of chakra with basically a near infinite chakra level. Power nullification is therefore not a problem.

attacks from the future?

Not gonna matter to her. See what I wrote above.

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#139 Posted by diydeath (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom: Eh, I have a problem with the reasoning behind Kaguya's ability to stop her powers from being nullified or from being attackes from the future.

Her chakra being stupidly immense isn't a defense against power nullification, it is in Bleachverse when you significantly outclass an opponent but not in Natutoverse. Even assuming energy equalization you have no way of proving Kaguya would have more "energy" than Yhwach, they're both effectively gods in their respective universes and were never indicated to be running out of "energy" during their battles though Zetsu did mention Kaguya should conserve her chakra so if anything, Yhwach would be the safe bet on higher energy levels.

As for durability Kaguya took damage from Sakura...her durability is at best inconsistent whereas Yhwach's durability is inconsequential because he reforms or revives himself from a future where he didn't die.

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#140 Edited by Gilateen (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom: Exactly, Plus Six Path characters should be able to Planet bust

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#141 Edited by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

"battles though Zetsu did mention Kaguya should conserve her chakra so if anything".

That was because she was opening portals and switching to other dimensions left and right to separate and fight Team 7(It's a fact in Naruto series that switching dimension and/or opening portals leads to big chakra consuming). With Yhwach she won't need to do that, he's only one person after all.

"As for durability Kaguya took damage from Sakura...her durability is at best inconsistent whereas Yhwach's durability is inconsequential because he reforms or revives himself from a future where he didn't die".

It was probably just a scratch. Sakura's punch scratched Kaguya and in the next second(s) she was already being sealed. Well, looking at how she tanked Naruto's and Sasuke's best attacks and survived Kakashi's attacks, I believe it's safe to say that her regen prevents any serious damage to her. Maybe, Kishi should have avoided that Sakura scene altogether since it obviously was a desperate attempt to include Sakura in the fight, somehow.

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#142 Edited by TheEmperor95 (1675 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom: that attack from sakura is more than a scratch lol it covered a fourth of her face

She also hadn't healed from the raikiri that kakashi hit her with. She hasn't shown any great regen

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#143 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1675 posts) - - Show Bio

Yhwach can absorb her power in a similar manner to ichigo

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#144 Posted by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaguya could literally Dimension dump Yhwach where ever she wants and he would just dimension jump back.

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#145 Edited by diydeath (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelordofwisdom:

You should actually quote so it tags me. :p

1) Totally irrelavent, Kaguya has been indicated to have a upper limit. Yhwach has not, nor was there any indication he had one despite using his piwer non-stop vs the 2 strongest "protagonists" who were noted to be monsters when it came to "maximum energy".

Not that it matters, as I said, it doesn't stop Yhwach from nullifying her powers through The Almighty.

2) Even if it was "just a scratch" that's a scratch from a chakra depleted Sakura who isn't even close to top tier in Narutoverse.

If a mid tier shinobi (top tier medical jutsu doesn't matter in terms of combat output) can physically harm Kaguya, that's going to be a problem since Yhwach was stabbing Ichigo who has tanked faaaaaaaar bigger hits than Sakura could generate.

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#146 Edited by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: Yeah, scratches can be big.

She also hadn't healed from the raikiri that kakashi hit her with.

Like before she was sealed? It was like mere seconds from her being hit by raikiri out of nowhere, while trying to dodge Naruto and Sasuke to her being sealed. Don't nitpick.

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#147 Posted by KalebMcShaw (102 posts) - - Show Bio

>Kaguya can bust a planet because she said she can

>Yhwach can't bust a planet even though he can said he can bust 2

typical narutards. On topic kaguya gets absorbed, she is pretty dumb as well so this could be easier than madara.

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#148 Posted by thelordofwisdom (242 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalebmcshaw: Nice fanboying. Completely ignored the rest of the thread.

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#149 Posted by utkanflash (2401 posts) - - Show Bio

Bleach is inconsistent and Yhwach aint has any significant feat that suggests he can beat Immortal Kaguya.

People love to scale power of bleach chars via Zaraki's meteor cut feat but;

1st Meteor is a mid-series thing for Narutoverse
2nd Zaraki is a phenomenon even among other captains you cant scale others over Zaraki its silly.

Destructive Attack Potency of Bleachverse not even compare with the 1st part of this chart. And this is all before Kaguya.
Destructive Attack Potency of Bleachverse not even compare with the 1st part of this chart. And this is all before Kaguya.

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#150 Posted by ourmanuel (12283 posts) - - Show Bio

@utkanflash: too bad all of what you posted is insignificant when you realize Yhwach can predict attacks and teleport and dimension hop. Nice try but no.

As I already said, kaguya has no intellect or will and Black Zetsu has to keep her in check so that she didn’t do something stupid. She doesn’t have much hope against Yhwach. Sure she has fire power, but she has nothing else apart from that.